Sorcerers were over nerfed... again

Snit

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a note. 2H sorcerer builds are only actually effective because they don't use any sorcerer skills...

2H are so strong now, you could roll a Monkey Butler, arm him with Crit Charge, Wrecking blow and Rally, then go do fine

At some point, I'll probably switch my Breton Sorc over to a stamina 2H user. I'm going to wait a while, though, and see if ZOS actually does address sorcs in the next month or two. I'd much rather play a caster.

MADshadowman

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

Attorneyatlawl

Danisheraser wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op "character" with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka.

Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
stop crying.

I play a sorcerer, and I have to agree with above.

I too have to agree here. And as far as people complaining about difficulty just doing solo questing with them... I don't even know how you could set up a sorc to be unable to breeze through them in 1.6, or any of the 4 classes honestly. The veteran zone questlines are basically just as easy and effortless to go through as the 1-50 quests nowadays between all of the nerfs done to them and the better gear availability in general.

My experience finishing up my magicka-based destro staff + resto staff sorc to VR14 so far in pve has been this: Crystal frag... drop lightning flood aoe pool in front of me for the dumb mobs to come tumbling onto... crystal frag... first mob dead... crushing shock, yay a crystal frag proc let's hit that... 2nd mob dead. 3rd mob falls over with one crushing shock. Quest bosses have gone basically "Crystal frag... crystal frag.... aoe pool... crystal frag... oh guess I should do one dodge roll. Refresh aoe pool... crystal frag. Boss defeated, oh joy." Brought my guy out to pvp even and he was better than I expected considering it's not finished leveling yet ... I expect live pvp on my own account's sorc to be just like it was both on PTS and with a friend's sorc that I have played some though (vr14) .

Attorneyatlawl

Tankqull wrote: »

playing a magica sorc is like throwing wet noodles...

High mitigation enemy blocking your spells resulting in little damage dealt. Shocking, truly. /sarcasm This is the same for all 4 classes. Looks like A) you killed him, and B.) all he was doing was blocking and you kept unloading your hits at a bad time in the first place. However, due to "A" he must have been low on health so wasting all your magicka on a blocking enemy with defense buffs up worked out in the end anyway.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious... you know what you do when someone is coming up to use wrecking blow on you? You dodge roll. You know what you do right after that? You hold block for a second, because 99% of the enemy players you run into will then try to critical charge you when their wrecking blow doesn't go off. Then you use an instant stun and unload.

MADshadowman

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

playing a magica sorc is like throwing wet noodles...

High mitigation enemy blocking your spells resulting in little damage dealt. Shocking, truly. /sarcasm This is the same for all 4 classes. Looks like A) you killed him, and B.) all he was doing was blocking and you kept unloading your hits at a bad time in the first place. However, due to "A" he must have been low on health so wasting all your magicka on a blocking enemy with defense buffs up worked out in the end anyway.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious... you know what you do when someone is coming up to use wrecking blow on you? You dodge roll. You know what you do right after that? You hold block for a second, because 99% of the enemy players you run into will then try to critical charge you when their wrecking blow doesn't go off. Then you use an instant stun and unload.

First of all, i'm a sorc i don't have enough stamina to dodge or block every attack they do. costs for blocking, dodging and breaking free are way higher than in 1.5. Secondly, do you think there is only 1 guy attacking me? This is thornblade, you constantly have to deal with 3-10 people jumping you.

Vahrokh

Anyone could please post a pet-less trial PvE setup that works in AA and Sanctum?

Thanks.

diwie

Anyone tryed playing sorc with a gamepad? Maby thy ve implemented the console version for pc.

Attorneyatlawl

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious...

MADshadowman wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

playing a magica sorc is like throwing wet noodles...

High mitigation enemy blocking your spells resulting in little damage dealt. Shocking, truly. /sarcasm This is the same for all 4 classes. Looks like A) you killed him, and B.) all he was doing was blocking and you kept unloading your hits at a bad time in the first place. However, due to "A" he must have been low on health so wasting all your magicka on a blocking enemy with defense buffs up worked out in the end anyway.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious... you know what you do when someone is coming up to use wrecking blow on you? You dodge roll. You know what you do right after that? You hold block for a second, because 99% of the enemy players you run into will then try to critical charge you when their wrecking blow doesn't go off. Then you use an instant stun and unload.

First of all, i'm a sorc i don't have enough stamina to dodge or block every attack they do. costs for blocking, dodging and breaking free are way higher than in 1.5. Secondly, do you think there is only 1 guy attacking me? This is thornblade, you constantly have to deal with 3-10 people jumping you.

Yes, I am a sorc too and a Nightblade also. Your class doesn't mean much as far as ability to dodge . You fought that one guy alone for 10s uninterrupted from your log, so extra people didn't add in. No one is typically intended to be fine when 10 guys jump them. If stamina is an issue for you (personally I have rarely found it to be even on pure magicka builds) you should ease up on being a full on pve raid spec glass Cannon when going out to PvP because it won't be nearly as effective there. Start prioritizing what to bother blocking and dodging.

Unless you are new to the game, blocking everything isn't what you should be doing anyway. Add a bit of mitigation if survival is an issue and utility. If you barely have any stamina then add a little somehow of it if it's not working for you or fit some cost reductions into the mix. This isn't a class issue it's a learning to make and play a good build one .

Sumpfheini

Funny thing is I actually agree with most changes Sorcerers received:

- Streak Magicka increase on spam: Good solution to make it less annoying
- Absorption Field: Was indeed a bit too powerful, feels very unrewarding now though
- Cast time on Clannfear: Needed to be done to make the heal not too op.
- Rebate: Boring and useless passive. Reduce cast costs of summons altogether if need be.
- Surge internal gcd: There needs to be something to make aoe-selfheal not ridiculous, maybe not the best solution because it negatively effects single-target dots.


Yet I think Sorcerers are distinctively lacking something: Synergy
There is a reason why Sorcs are almost exclusively played as Magicka DPS builds. Because these are the only builds where you find some synergy. Stam DPS, Heal, and Tank are severely lacking. The lower base stats for health and armor for sorcerers and their very high base magicka costs are a reason. Adjust this, give us interesting passives, rework a few abilities (Summon Matriarch, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Rune Prison) and we are good to go.

SexyVette07

I have spent some extensive time building my Magick sorcerers gear up, and I still can barely hit 7k-8k sustained on fights. What's the point? Stamina Templar and DK builds are doing twice that....

I started reroll in a Templar last night, then I came to the realization that that is BS. I closed the game and went and had a drink. Haven't been back on since and don't forsee myself playing again.


Good luck to my Sorcerer brethren in case this is it for me. Resubbed for less than a month and I'm already tired of it.

Reykice

Yes... and it has been an absolute silence from ZOS... i bet they mostly want people to play as it is as they are no longer willing to devote any resources or attention to this. Unless it will be in a paid DLC.

I could see that coming... like "hey guys we buffed this and that, it will be in our next DLC, buy it now!"...

Meanwhile we get stuck with the broken systems...

Valmond

Sumpfheini wrote: »

Funny thing is I actually agree with most changes Sorcerers received:

- Streak Magicka increase on spam: Good solution to make it less annoying
- Absorption Field: Was indeed a bit too powerful, feels very unrewarding now though
- Cast time on Clannfear: Needed to be done to make the heal not too op.
- Rebate: Boring and useless passive. Reduce cast costs of summons altogether if need be.
- Surge internal gcd: There needs to be something to make aoe-selfheal not ridiculous, maybe not the best solution because it negatively effects single-target dots.


Yet I think Sorcerers are distinctively lacking something: Synergy
There is a reason why Sorcs are almost exclusively played as Magicka DPS builds. Because these are the only builds where you find some synergy. Stam DPS, Heal, and Tank are severely lacking. The lower base stats for health and armor for sorcerers and their very high base magicka costs are a reason. Adjust this, give us interesting passives, rework a few abilities (Summon Matriarch, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Rune Prison) and we are good to go.

No, no, no, no, nonononononono, just, no.
Cast time was, is, and remains, a horrible idea.
Better they remove the heal than add a cast time.

Snit

From a recent ESO Live:

"How to say this as diplomatically as possible, I think people will always say x class is underpowered"

Don't get your hopes up. You bunch of complainers.

Sumpfheini

Valmond wrote: »

Sumpfheini wrote: »

Funny thing is I actually agree with most changes Sorcerers received:

- Streak Magicka increase on spam: Good solution to make it less annoying
- Absorption Field: Was indeed a bit too powerful, feels very unrewarding now though
- Cast time on Clannfear: Needed to be done to make the heal not too op.
.

No, no, no, no, nonononononono, just, no.
Cast time was, is, and remains, a horrible idea.
Better they remove the heal than add a cast time.

Actually in PvE as a tank it works very well for me. The clanfear taunts some mobs and I have an emergency heal if need be and can resummon it in a less stressful time.

Admittedly in PvP it's bad.

Attorneyatlawl

Snit wrote: »

From a recent ESO Live:

"How to say this as diplomatically as possible, I think people will always say x class is underpowered"

Don't get your hopes up. You bunch of complainers.

It's true, though. Many people only play one class and then frame everything they say with that. Some play more, or all of them, and have a better perspective with less preference bias slanting their view. However, regardless of that even, the vast majority of people honestly don't know all the nuances of the game systems or have a good grasp on what balance actually is. Add in normal bias and that most people are average at playing (statistically and inherently true, not as an insult but by definition) and you end up with a relatively low number of people even qualified to say much of real note about these topics. It's the same thing as with every other MMO as far as that goes. Grab any random hundred players and you'll find at least a few that would agree even the most absurd and horridly ill-thought out idea you can come up with would be a "good change".

MADshadowman

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious...

MADshadowman wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

playing a magica sorc is like throwing wet noodles...

High mitigation enemy blocking your spells resulting in little damage dealt. Shocking, truly. /sarcasm This is the same for all 4 classes. Looks like A) you killed him, and B.) all he was doing was blocking and you kept unloading your hits at a bad time in the first place. However, due to "A" he must have been low on health so wasting all your magicka on a blocking enemy with defense buffs up worked out in the end anyway.

MADshadowman wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

In 1.5 i felt pretty strong. And i wasn't using a special build or any crazy sets or anything. I was playing a classic sorcerer, that mostly used his class skills + crushing shock cause we don't have an instant cast dps spell.

My survivability was good and i really felt confident about jumping into fights.

in 1.6 i take so much damage, that i often can't survive even when i'm spamming shields. At the same time i still have the issues i had before. low damage spells, cast times, explosion timers, reflectable spells, expensive spells.

I went from 7 light to 5 light / 2 heavy and that boosted my armor and spell resistance immensely, but it doesn't really make a difference. I still die as fast, but now my spells cost 6% more...

I'm very frustrated now, cause i might have to give up my classic sorcerer build, which is nothing special but it worked well for me. I don't wanna be a 2H monkey, only because it's ridiculously strong atm. I wanna play the way i want, but ZOS keeps ruining this class with every update.

I did the last mages guild quest on Eyveya right after 1.6 hit I was level 28 and the quest was level 43. I am using the same build as I was before and it seems I am doing more damage post 1.6

Yeah, i'm not talking about low level PVE. I'm talking about hardcore PVP on thornblade. In PVE you don't have 2H monkeys spamming wrecking blows and crit rushes or jesus beams zapping all over the map.

If you're serious... you know what you do when someone is coming up to use wrecking blow on you? You dodge roll. You know what you do right after that? You hold block for a second, because 99% of the enemy players you run into will then try to critical charge you when their wrecking blow doesn't go off. Then you use an instant stun and unload.

First of all, i'm a sorc i don't have enough stamina to dodge or block every attack they do. costs for blocking, dodging and breaking free are way higher than in 1.5. Secondly, do you think there is only 1 guy attacking me? This is thornblade, you constantly have to deal with 3-10 people jumping you.

Yes, I am a sorc too and a Nightblade also. Your class doesn't mean much as far as ability to dodge . You fought that one guy alone for 10s uninterrupted from your log, so extra people didn't add in. No one is typically intended to be fine when 10 guys jump them. If stamina is an issue for you (personally I have rarely found it to be even on pure magicka builds) you should ease up on being a full on pve raid spec glass Cannon when going out to PvP because it won't be nearly as effective there. Start prioritizing what to bother blocking and dodging.

Unless you are new to the game, blocking everything isn't what you should be doing anyway. Add a bit of mitigation if survival is an issue and utility. If you barely have any stamina then add a little somehow of it if it's not working for you or fit some cost reductions into the mix. This isn't a class issue it's a learning to make and play a good build one .

Are you kidding me? I'm pvp'ing ever since the game came out. i'm not a glass cannon build, and i'm not doing pve stuff. This is a classic sorcerer build that was working very well, even on the pts. But the light armor nerfs make me squishy as hell. with 7 light pieces i have only 3500 armor. By adding only 2 heavy pieces i get to 8600. This is not balanced at all. The gap between the armor types is way to big now. I know what i'm doing, i'm not a noob, but all stamina costs are increased now. I had less problems with stamina in 1.5. 1.6 forces me to increase my stamina to be at the same level as before, this means i can't have as much magicka which is a hit to my sustainability. I'm really getting sick of constantly adapting my build to ZOS's crazy ideas. We had so many nerfs it's not even funny.

Mumnoch

Snit wrote: »

From a recent ESO Live:

"How to say this as diplomatically as possible, I think people will always say x class is underpowered"

Don't get your hopes up. You bunch of complainers.

Was this in reference to Sorcs?

Snit

Mumnoch wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

From a recent ESO Live:

"How to say this as diplomatically as possible, I think people will always say x class is underpowered"

Don't get your hopes up. You bunch of complainers.

Was this in reference to Sorcs?

Specifically in reference to sorcs, yes.

Snit

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's true, though. Many people only play one class and then frame everything they say with that.

Yes, it's true. People do tend to complain, and MMO players are top-notch at it.

However, if that is the developer mindset -- and we can assume it is, as he told us it is -- that essentially dismisses all player feedback as noise. It indicates that the subject is closed.

That's why I tell sorcs not to get their hopes up. Deal with it, reroll or move on. If you're expecting dramatic changes in class balance, you're most likely setting yourself up for disappointment. That's all.

I'm in the "deal with it" camp for now. I enjoy playing my sorc. There are virtually no situations where I wouldn't add more to my group if I were a DK, but I like lightning effects more than flappy stuff

Mumnoch

Snit wrote: »

Mumnoch wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

From a recent ESO Live:

"How to say this as diplomatically as possible, I think people will always say x class is underpowered"

Don't get your hopes up. You bunch of complainers.

Was this in reference to Sorcs?

Specifically in reference to sorcs, yes.

Wasn't there a thread here that a Dev came on and said they was looking into the Sorc complaints actively and would be resolving our issues?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Reykice

Sumpfheini wrote: »

Funny thing is I actually agree with most changes Sorcerers received:

- Streak Magicka increase on spam: Good solution to make it less annoying
- Absorption Field: Was indeed a bit too powerful, feels very unrewarding now though
- Cast time on Clannfear: Needed to be done to make the heal not too op.
- Rebate: Boring and useless passive. Reduce cast costs of summons altogether if need be.
- Surge internal gcd: There needs to be something to make aoe-selfheal not ridiculous, maybe not the best solution because it negatively effects single-target dots.


Yet I think Sorcerers are distinctively lacking something: Synergy
There is a reason why Sorcs are almost exclusively played as Magicka DPS builds. Because these are the only builds where you find some synergy. Stam DPS, Heal, and Tank are severely lacking. The lower base stats for health and armor for sorcerers and their very high base magicka costs are a reason. Adjust this, give us interesting passives, rework a few abilities (Summon Matriarch, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Rune Prison) and we are good to go.

1. Yes but charging has no cooldown, so while we pay more magicka to escape anyone else can charge us again and again with no increased cost. Either do it for both or for none.
2. it was powerful now its useless.
3. Dismissing your tank pet to heal yourself is a bad idea in any game... no designer would make this mistake. But then again we were balanced by a plain developer who is not a game designer. The cast time makes it worthless. Also, nobody mentions the cost... the summon pet spells are the most expensive in the GAME. This makes the heal the most expensive in the game especially as most magicka sorcs have lowish HP.
4. It was a nice one mitigating the Heal spell cost... now its just worthless and the pet summon cost is the same. A HUGE nerf. It was also a mana return when your Attronach(ultimate) died.... very useful overall.
5. This ruined every build possible... if you want heals you must stay away from any dots or spells like the Lightning form melee sorcs were using for mitigation. A designer would have placed a 6 target cap for the heal component. But again, we got balanced by a developer... who did not know what to do so he did this.
6. I will add the removal of the 10% cost reduction from the lightning tree was VERY bad for melee sorcs who only use spells from that tree and a toggle + weapon skills. 10% more cost for Surge who already has a very high cost.... has a very big impact.

The reason the melee sorc does well despite this is because he can just use the OP skills from the weapon trees and because stamina was buffed so much... magicka sorcerers don`t have this option.

Also, nobody seems to notice how magicka sorc spells cost a lot more than any other spell for any other class... yet they keep nerfing the cost reduction on light armor AND sorc passives.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

MADshadowman

Reykice wrote: »

Sumpfheini wrote: »

Funny thing is I actually agree with most changes Sorcerers received:

- Streak Magicka increase on spam: Good solution to make it less annoying
- Absorption Field: Was indeed a bit too powerful, feels very unrewarding now though
- Cast time on Clannfear: Needed to be done to make the heal not too op.
- Rebate: Boring and useless passive. Reduce cast costs of summons altogether if need be.
- Surge internal gcd: There needs to be something to make aoe-selfheal not ridiculous, maybe not the best solution because it negatively effects single-target dots.


Yet I think Sorcerers are distinctively lacking something: Synergy
There is a reason why Sorcs are almost exclusively played as Magicka DPS builds. Because these are the only builds where you find some synergy. Stam DPS, Heal, and Tank are severely lacking. The lower base stats for health and armor for sorcerers and their very high base magicka costs are a reason. Adjust this, give us interesting passives, rework a few abilities (Summon Matriarch, Bound Armor, Dark Exchange, Rune Prison) and we are good to go.

1. Yes but charging has no cooldown, so while we pay more magicka to escape anyone else can charge us again and again with no increased cost. Either do it for both or for none.
2. it was powerful now its useless.
3. Dismissing your tank pet to heal yourself is a bad idea in any game... no designer would make this mistake. But then again we were balanced by a plain developer who is not a game designer. The cast time makes it worthless. Also, nobody mentions the cost... the summon pet spells are the most expensive in the GAME. This makes the heal the most expensive in the game especially as most magicka sorcs have lowish HP.
4. It was a nice one mitigating the Heal spell cost... now its just worthless and the pet summon cost is the same. A HUGE nerf. It was also a mana return when your Attronach(ultimate) died.... very useful overall.
5. This ruined every build possible... if you want heals you must stay away from any dots or spells like the Lightning form melee sorcs were using for mitigation. A designer would have placed a 6 target cap for the heal component. But again, we got balanced by a developer... who did not know what to do so he did this.
6. I will add the removal of the 10% cost reduction from the lightning tree was VERY bad for melee sorcs who only use spells from that tree and a toggle + weapon skills. 10% more cost for Surge who already has a very high cost.... has a very big impact.

The reason the melee sorc does well despite this is because he can just use the OP skills from the weapon trees and because stamina was buffed so much... magicka sorcerers don`t have this option.

Also, nobody seems to notice how magicka sorc spells cost a lot more than any other spell for any other class... yet they keep nerfing the cost reduction on light armor AND sorc passives. I will again blame this on the developer doing the work of a class designer failing at it. Maybe we should ask for that guy`s head on a spike?(in the game ofc)

[...]

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and removed response]

superquadockyb14_ESO

I feel bad that I don't really see it that way as my Tanky Melee Sorcerer has pretty much been buffed any which way I slice it.

I am not a very good player though. I mostly like the toggle abilities because I cannot use 5 abilities at once, I mostly stick to 3 at most.

Reykice

superquadockyb14_ESO wrote: »

I feel bad that I don't really see it that way as my Tanky Melee Sorcerer has pretty much been buffed any which way I slice it.

I am not a very good player though. I mostly like the toggle abilities because I cannot use 5 abilities at once, I mostly stick to 3 at most.

Is the buff due to sorcerer specific changes or because everything else changed? What abilities do you use?

Tapio75

The short time i played my Sorc after the patch, my impression was that it is at least 50% more efficient kill9ing machine than before patch. Not sure if it lasts if i play more but it did felt pretty powerful. Same goes for DK based fire mage i have, it is ranged wwith stick and skirt, feels quite a bit more powerful than it was before patch..

All the impressions after patch has been than every build i have, stanmina or magicka and regardless of armor, has become more powerful than they were before patch and for me, it is sad since game was too easy even before patch. Wish we could go back to difficulty level we had in the Beta.

Tapio75

MADshadowman wrote: »

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Thing is, that players always know the best solutions for their own classes and builds but that does not actually mean they are best solutions for general gameplay and balance.

Tankqull

ZRage wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

My particular beef is with Eric Wrobel's design decisions behind Surge, as if its not enough to spit on our faces the tool tip doesn't specify the 0.25 sec CD on healing in live so you would have many asking if there was a particular bug with the ability.

It isn't that hard to make the healing component work with a single target direct damage condition either.

I am just sick and tired of the combat team just back handing us when they are forced to do balancing mechanics. Especially when there are those who spent large hours play testing this on the PTS giving feedback.

Because of this I wash my hands from any future PTS testing, not worth my time if we get these obviously broken decisions that come hinted with vindictive bias.

That Eric guy is incompetent as a game designer and should not be allow to balance anything but he is most likely a good programmer so he has a say in this. Sad but true...

He went for a logical solution even if in practice it sucks as it makes it too unreliable to use... a 6 targets cap and no cooldown would have been the better option, or a max of 6 heals in 0.5 seconds... that way small dots critting would not mess with this ability and ruin it for everyone.

But then again, you need a competent game designer to figure this out and i think Eroc Wrobel is just a programmer.

I don't think surge is badly balanced, looking at other things, you got damage shield, heal from dark magic passive which was buffed too, if surge would heal more on top of that, this could really mess up balance. But still sorc, defence / healing is nowhere near that of DK or Templar.

it is, while every class can generate with their ae dmg heal 4k+ HPS - sorcs are restricted to 20/50% of one ability impact leading to less than 1k HPS if dots are involved its even less in most cases.

Reykice

Tapio75 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Thing is, that players always know the best solutions for their own classes and builds but that does not actually mean they are best solutions for general gameplay and balance.

Do you not think that there is a problem when the magicka sorcerer builds are doing a lot less dps? By a lot i mean the stamina ones do 50% more... stamina builds can reach 15k or more while the magicka ones mostly do about 10k...

The magicka ones are also less protected... have less mobility, can block for a lot less and so on. They also gave the stamina users a heal... cool for them.

Don`t think you need that much of a study to see that there is a problem and it could be solved by more dps... making the least armored type of dps do the most damage is how every MMO balances things. Because it makes sense, you give up protection for damage.

As to the people who go "well but they have shields, they can keep spamming the shields and be protected!"... well, while they keep spamming those shields... they are not really doing dps are they? Same thing for healing. The low protection makes it so even spamming shields/healing, a decent stamina player will take them down as fast as you can get them up and then its just a matter of time until you die. And since stamina builds have a much higher mobility its not like you can run from them...

Karnus

Makes play time fun and safe!

MADshadowman

Tapio75 wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Thing is, that players always know the best solutions for their own classes and builds but that does not actually mean they are best solutions for general gameplay and balance.

Could it get any worse, than what ZOS is doing?

The thing is, we are the customers and we should have a voice when it comes to changes. Why do players get ignored and instead get forced to swallow every change ZOS thinks would be good, even though everyone on the forums says it's a horrible idea?