Sorcerers were over nerfed... again

Soris

MADshadowman wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of potential on Sorcerers. A lot!

What is most frustrating is that Zenimax is not exploring that potential at all, if some of our abilities were polished the class could become very strong, maybe not as a DPS, but as a Tank and a support DPS with great Utility.

The pets are so... Disappointing. Actually, the entire Daedric summoning tree is disappointing, and not only because of toggles (though those are problematic). Each pet has great abilities and yet you have zero control over what they do.

How great is it that the clannfear can taunt if you can't make it taunt when it counts?
Why can't the Twilight Matriarch heal allies?
Why must you kill the unstable familiar for it to do its AoE Damage?

And then Dark Magic... Where are the Curses? Really, Daedric Mines in dark magic? Really? I know, you guys ran out of space on the Daedric Summong tree so you just tossed this ability to dark magic... pfft.

Dark Conversion could be amazing for tanking. Actually, one of the morphs was amazing as it provided the caster with a huge buff to Armor and Spell Resist... But it got Nerfed... The idea of regaining Health and Useful Resources in exchange of the least desirable resource is amazing. This ability will always be horrible for DPSing or healing, but could be incredible for Tanking... Another potential unexplored by Zenimax.

And the Storm Calling Tree... Lightning Splash... Who had the brilliant idea of making this a ground target DoT? Seriously... The spell could be great if it was targeted on an enemy, but no, instead you are left guessing if your spell is even hitting the bosses and in AoE situations? Hah, mobs can move one millimeter and be out of the AoE.
1 second Cooldown on Overload Light attacks? Really? You add that after finally accepting that Weaving is not an exploit? Cool...
Where is our single target spam-able DPS? I mean, all classes have one... Why are sorcerers stuck with Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock?

So many things ZoS could do...

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Yeah you may need heal for sure if someone manages to break through your shield spam. But that's not possible.

MADshadowman

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

it's our skill that makes us strong, not our class. The class lacks some important things and is poorly designed. A 9k fragment doesn't make up for all the crap we have to deal with.

MADshadowman

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of potential on Sorcerers. A lot!

What is most frustrating is that Zenimax is not exploring that potential at all, if some of our abilities were polished the class could become very strong, maybe not as a DPS, but as a Tank and a support DPS with great Utility.

The pets are so... Disappointing. Actually, the entire Daedric summoning tree is disappointing, and not only because of toggles (though those are problematic). Each pet has great abilities and yet you have zero control over what they do.

How great is it that the clannfear can taunt if you can't make it taunt when it counts?
Why can't the Twilight Matriarch heal allies?
Why must you kill the unstable familiar for it to do its AoE Damage?

And then Dark Magic... Where are the Curses? Really, Daedric Mines in dark magic? Really? I know, you guys ran out of space on the Daedric Summong tree so you just tossed this ability to dark magic... pfft.

Dark Conversion could be amazing for tanking. Actually, one of the morphs was amazing as it provided the caster with a huge buff to Armor and Spell Resist... But it got Nerfed... The idea of regaining Health and Useful Resources in exchange of the least desirable resource is amazing. This ability will always be horrible for DPSing or healing, but could be incredible for Tanking... Another potential unexplored by Zenimax.

And the Storm Calling Tree... Lightning Splash... Who had the brilliant idea of making this a ground target DoT? Seriously... The spell could be great if it was targeted on an enemy, but no, instead you are left guessing if your spell is even hitting the bosses and in AoE situations? Hah, mobs can move one millimeter and be out of the AoE.
1 second Cooldown on Overload Light attacks? Really? You add that after finally accepting that Weaving is not an exploit? Cool...
Where is our single target spam-able DPS? I mean, all classes have one... Why are sorcerers stuck with Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock?

So many things ZoS could do...

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Yeah you may need heal for sure if someone manages to break through your shield spam. But that's not possible.

And again, you have no idea. 2H spam monkeys rip through our shields quite easily. everyone needs to heal, or should at least be able to. But we need a resto staff to do that effectively, which prevents us from using other weapons, this needs to change.

daemonios

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

it's our skill that makes us strong, not our class. The class lacks some important things and is poorly designed. A 9k fragment doesn't make up for all the crap we have to deal with.

On top of that:

- Most of our burst attacks are blockable/deflectable;
- ESO isn't only about PvP.

Soris

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of potential on Sorcerers. A lot!

What is most frustrating is that Zenimax is not exploring that potential at all, if some of our abilities were polished the class could become very strong, maybe not as a DPS, but as a Tank and a support DPS with great Utility.

The pets are so... Disappointing. Actually, the entire Daedric summoning tree is disappointing, and not only because of toggles (though those are problematic). Each pet has great abilities and yet you have zero control over what they do.

How great is it that the clannfear can taunt if you can't make it taunt when it counts?
Why can't the Twilight Matriarch heal allies?
Why must you kill the unstable familiar for it to do its AoE Damage?

And then Dark Magic... Where are the Curses? Really, Daedric Mines in dark magic? Really? I know, you guys ran out of space on the Daedric Summong tree so you just tossed this ability to dark magic... pfft.

Dark Conversion could be amazing for tanking. Actually, one of the morphs was amazing as it provided the caster with a huge buff to Armor and Spell Resist... But it got Nerfed... The idea of regaining Health and Useful Resources in exchange of the least desirable resource is amazing. This ability will always be horrible for DPSing or healing, but could be incredible for Tanking... Another potential unexplored by Zenimax.

And the Storm Calling Tree... Lightning Splash... Who had the brilliant idea of making this a ground target DoT? Seriously... The spell could be great if it was targeted on an enemy, but no, instead you are left guessing if your spell is even hitting the bosses and in AoE situations? Hah, mobs can move one millimeter and be out of the AoE.
1 second Cooldown on Overload Light attacks? Really? You add that after finally accepting that Weaving is not an exploit? Cool...
Where is our single target spam-able DPS? I mean, all classes have one... Why are sorcerers stuck with Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock?

So many things ZoS could do...

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Yeah you may need heal for sure if someone manages to break through your shield spam. But that's not possible.

And again, you have no idea. 2H spam monkeys rip through our shields quite easily. everyone needs to heal, or should at least be able to. But we need a resto staff to do that effectively, which prevents us from using other weapons, this needs to change.

Bold part.. Not correct. Go test yourself.
With max magicka, you have 10k shield, and if you stack at least 2, you have around 20k simultaneously. And these shields cost around 2k magicka. Plus, shields cut dots(at least bow dots). Just spam it, use streak and don't get stunned.

MADshadowman

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of potential on Sorcerers. A lot!

What is most frustrating is that Zenimax is not exploring that potential at all, if some of our abilities were polished the class could become very strong, maybe not as a DPS, but as a Tank and a support DPS with great Utility.

The pets are so... Disappointing. Actually, the entire Daedric summoning tree is disappointing, and not only because of toggles (though those are problematic). Each pet has great abilities and yet you have zero control over what they do.

How great is it that the clannfear can taunt if you can't make it taunt when it counts?
Why can't the Twilight Matriarch heal allies?
Why must you kill the unstable familiar for it to do its AoE Damage?

And then Dark Magic... Where are the Curses? Really, Daedric Mines in dark magic? Really? I know, you guys ran out of space on the Daedric Summong tree so you just tossed this ability to dark magic... pfft.

Dark Conversion could be amazing for tanking. Actually, one of the morphs was amazing as it provided the caster with a huge buff to Armor and Spell Resist... But it got Nerfed... The idea of regaining Health and Useful Resources in exchange of the least desirable resource is amazing. This ability will always be horrible for DPSing or healing, but could be incredible for Tanking... Another potential unexplored by Zenimax.

And the Storm Calling Tree... Lightning Splash... Who had the brilliant idea of making this a ground target DoT? Seriously... The spell could be great if it was targeted on an enemy, but no, instead you are left guessing if your spell is even hitting the bosses and in AoE situations? Hah, mobs can move one millimeter and be out of the AoE.
1 second Cooldown on Overload Light attacks? Really? You add that after finally accepting that Weaving is not an exploit? Cool...
Where is our single target spam-able DPS? I mean, all classes have one... Why are sorcerers stuck with Crystal Fragments and Crushing Shock?

So many things ZoS could do...

we're asking ZOS for a self heal and some decent instant cast damage ability for almost a year now, i can't understand why they insist on coming up with their own broken solutions, when the forums are full of ideas and solutions from people who actually know what they're talking about.

Yeah you may need heal for sure if someone manages to break through your shield spam. But that's not possible.

And again, you have no idea. 2H spam monkeys rip through our shields quite easily. everyone needs to heal, or should at least be able to. But we need a resto staff to do that effectively, which prevents us from using other weapons, this needs to change.

Bold part.. Not correct. Go test yourself.
With max magicka, you have 10k shield, and if you stack at least 2, you have around 20k simultaneously. And these shields cost around 2k magicka. Plus, shields cut dots(at least bow dots). Just spam it, use streak and don't get stunned.

Don't try to tell me what i'm experiencing or what i should do, thank you. Also: there is no max magicka anymore. A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

olsborg

MADshadowman wrote: »

Don't try to tell me what i'm experiencing or what i should do, thank you. Also: there is no max magicka anymore. A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

This is true, 2h is insane atm.

Reykice

Everyone keeps going that "omg the sorcs have burst!"....

You can crit charge, do a wrecking blow and about 2 light attacks(weaving) as melee, takes 1.5-2 seconds... and kill a sorcerer. 1 more seconds and its one more wrecking blow + light attack... is he trying to run? Critical charge his ass again.

Is he trying to interrupt you? Silly caster, he can`t interrupt the might that is Wrecking Blow... even if it has a cast time. The Gods have decided.

This game is really not all about PvP anyway, it has 1 PvP map.... ONE. And in all that PvE content a melee character does 50% more dps.... that`s very noticeable in groups.... and they have more mitigation on top of that because ZENIMAX figured we will all be melee....

Next time you complain about the sorc "damage" and "burst" try being attacked by a wrecking blow spamer while you are in light armor... count to 1 and notice you are dead.

byrom101b16_ESO

Did gold key Darkshade yesterday.

PUG group - but all known to me and decent players.

I was wearing all vet 14 legendaries - 2 Torug's, 4 MK, 2 Cyrodiils Light, 2 Valkyn Skoria.

18.5K health (food buffed), ~29K Magicka (food buffed), 10K spell resistance, 5K armour (6 Light, 1 Medium armours), 2K spell power, almost 2.3K with Surge.

I was averaging about 9K on the boss - didn't use Liquid Lighting as the boss moves nearly all the time making this so-called 'DoT' useless, just like it is on many other bosses.

10K instant cast ranged add atttacks... 16K lightning hits from the boss, death stats reading things like 20-40K poison damage from the 'don't pull the levers' phase. 6K fire pool ticks.

Our Light Armoured Templar healer was fragged pretty often and was the first to leave, albeit after 12 wipes while we were sorting out tactics.

We worked out the tactics necessary, we are old MMO hands and used to working for our loot... but wow - you couldn't make a single mistake. Not one - and on a dungeon boss that drops gear no-one geared up enough to do it is really interested in, except the rare drop mask - woooo...

So - being crap at dps in a REAL fight where the enemy doesn't handily stand still and bend over for the magicka Sorc is the kind of dissapointment anyone with half a brain could have seen a mile off.

Guess I've got half a brain. Cool...

However, as the run isn't timed, that my dps was pants didn't irritate me too much.

The nerf to Light Armour - upon which the magicka dps build absolutely HAS to be based around due to the cost reductions on vastly over-priced magicka abilities... well... that has left us in a very bad place indeed.

The DK Tank had 22K spell resistance and 20K armour...

... just read those figures again and compare it to Light Armour with the LA passive to increase SR...

... yeah, that's right...

With the only protective magic I could afford to cast (constant Hardened Shield or LA shield proved too expensive to maintain anything but a trickle of dps due to the constant recasting necessary) - I used Thundering Presence - I had 13.5K SR and 9.5K armour.

I melted when I got hit for the numbers you see above nevertheless...

In the end I had to run it with a Guild Team to finish it with Vet 14's and use the one set of tactics we had worked out with a Templar healer for the ulti. We had to pull it off pretty flawlessly. They are all very good players, including ex-Hodor who left for personal reasons, and so naturally it got done.

However, the following conclusions are, based on pre-patch predictions, PTS play and last night's experience, almost axiomatic, and the real point of this post;

1. The Light Armour Nerf - FAR too hard and FAR too much in terms of Spell Resistance.
2. Non-static target dps for magicka Sorcerers is as low as we expected - dross compared to other classes.
3. The difficulty level of dungeons is tuned far too high for casuals and people without top gear - this will likely be a significant shock to this set of players - who, by the way, constitute the vast majority of players... you know, the majority of CUSTOMERS Zenimax are supposed to try to make money from.
4. The loot drops from such challenging encounters are, frankly, a joke and need a comprehensive overhaul. If you work hard, you gotta get PAID.
5. Making known content that people have run many times... have farmed for months... and turning it into a 'you've gotta learn how to beat me again' wipefest for a majority of players is just poisonous for player ployalty. If you introduce hard content - you should make it NEW content, and reward appropriately for success against it. Come on Zenimax - this is 'How to Make an MMO for Dummies' stuff!

Personally I don't know how heavy the bias was towards soliciting feedback only from hardcore PvP'ers, 'Play all Day' Blog Reviewers and hardcore PvE'ers, but the screw has been wound too tight foor the majority of your paying customers...

Frankly, the kinds of players who can match my level of PvE play and gear, or indeed exceed it by some margin, aren't the target metric Zenimax shouldn be listening to. Sure there needs to be gated content for hard challenges, but that's not the point.

To put no finer point on it - 'Leet' players need to stop talking over the main player base, shut up and in doing so, actually assist in the future success of the game.

Here's a fact - the vast majority of people don't care how much dps you get with 'build x' - they actually just want to enjoy the game without being escorted to the exit by poorly thought out changes to something they used too enjoy recommended and demanded by the small but vocal minority.

If Zenimax want to make a game for a niche few top players, that is their affair. It's pretty comprehensively stupid... but their decision.

I for one don't want to wade through idiotic class nerfs, overtuned content with no rewards that I've run many times already and suffer a depopulation of the server (and my Guild based on last night's TS conversations) just because Zenimax needs to listen more and dismiss critical feedback less.

Mark my words Zenimax - FAR better to hotfix your mistakes now, than try to rescue your failing bottom line later...

Soris

MADshadowman wrote: »

A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

If you just sit there and do nothing.

Please do more tests on this and see yourself. Do some 1v1 duels.
Im telling you because you ask for buffs for already op class currently with some specific builds.
Also Im playing 2h build on my templar main. It's op too. Both needs to tuned down.

And not everyone using fotm 2h builds. Your argument is invalid here. There is only one thing to barely counter your shield spam is that lol wrecking blow spam or snipe with insane burst. But they dont have both best defence via shields and best offence like some sorc builds.

McDoogs

PvP sorceror can be incredibly good. At least you have that.

byrom101b16_ESO

McDoogs wrote: »

PvP sorceror can be incredibly good. At least you have that.

No doubt there - although timing is everything to get kills, and DK's are still an issue unless you specc JUST to kill them and then have to suffer less than average performance against other classes... but hey...

... trouble is, like hardcore PvE'ers, regular PvP'ers are a minority.

Every successful business in the world caters to the larger proportion of the customer base who have the money they want.

Zenimax is currently catering to the minority.

To paraphrase Yoda;

"Financial sense, this does not make."

ZRage

I had my sorc speced for non vet PvP, before patch it was quite a beast, but just after patch came in I had some 1-2 hours in cyrodil with it and basically I felt ultra annoyed. No idea how but everybody at level 20-40 was running with like 30k hp, and due to LA nerfs, cyrodil -20% damage taken change I basically felt like I do no damage at all, while running full magicka build with bunch of spell damage bonuses from sets.

I won't speak about PvE at all because it's all about right setup and knowledge, but for sure classes with better sustainability like DK, Temp probably will have much bigger advantage now.

Dyride

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

The only place I feel any level of power is PVP.

Yes my Sorc is great to kite, I've got my ranged interrupt with Crushing Shock and Streak/Boundless Storm makes me a lightning god.

However, once you get into PVE and mobs are immune to half of your abilities, being "carried" thru content is the least fun feeling in the world.

MADshadowman

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

If you just sit there and do nothing.

Please do more tests on this and see yourself. Do some 1v1 duels.
Im telling you because you ask for buffs for already op class currently with some specific builds.
Also Im playing 2h build on my templar main. It's op too. Both needs to tuned down.

And not everyone using fotm 2h builds. Your argument is invalid here. There is only one thing to barely counter your shield spam is that lol wrecking blow spam or snipe with insane burst. But they dont have both best defence via shields and best offence like some sorc builds.

I don't have to do tests, i'm pvp'ing everyday for at least 5-6 hours. i know what i'm talking about. You on the other seem to not really know that. I consider myself a pretty good sorcerer, but 2H are a sorcerers weak spot, since they hit very hard on someone who has basically no armor, and crit rush spamming makes it possible to follow a streaking sorcerer all the time, if he can't get a dodge roll in between the streaks.

Snipe isn't as strong anymore. Yesterday i was standing in front of a keep, letting 3 people constantly snipe me for a minute and i laughed at them. If you're not stealth attacking, your snipe won't do much damage.

Vahrokh

McDoogs wrote: »

PvP sorceror can be incredibly good. At least you have that.

This helps A LOT people who do the whole rest of the game except PvP. Really.

Erock25

I just can't believe that BECAUSE they gave us a 35% heal on Clannfear they then double nerfed us with a cast time and rebate neutering. I wish they just never gave the Clannfear heal in the first place and we could keep Rebate. Even if you aren't using pets, it is nice to get that magicka back when your Atro dies. It is just a very Sorc like experience to be given a heal on PTS and then get double nerfed to make the heal useless while also nerfing other aspects of the class. And I [snip] you not, it is because quite a few high profile DKs, that for some reason have ZOS's ear, were giving tons and tons of feedback to get it removed. DKs putting in time to whine about another class, that's rich.

daemonios

McDoogs wrote: »

PvP sorceror can be incredibly good. At least you have that.

"PvP" and "can". Not very encouraging, is it?

Soris

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

If you just sit there and do nothing.

Please do more tests on this and see yourself. Do some 1v1 duels.
Im telling you because you ask for buffs for already op class currently with some specific builds.
Also Im playing 2h build on my templar main. It's op too. Both needs to tuned down.

And not everyone using fotm 2h builds. Your argument is invalid here. There is only one thing to barely counter your shield spam is that lol wrecking blow spam or snipe with insane burst. But they dont have both best defence via shields and best offence like some sorc builds.

I don't have to do tests, i'm pvp'ing everyday for at least 5-6 hours. i know what i'm talking about. You on the other seem to not really know that. I consider myself a pretty good sorcerer, but 2H are a sorcerers weak spot, since they hit very hard on someone who has basically no armor, and crit rush spamming makes it possible to follow a streaking sorcerer all the time, if he can't get a dodge roll in between the streaks.

Snipe isn't as strong anymore. Yesterday i was standing in front of a keep, letting 3 people constantly snipe me for a minute and i laughed at them. If you're not stealth attacking, your snipe won't do much damage.

Yeah okay, you are pvper. Then you know what I meant. Just be honest and don't pretend that your class is weak. It was maybe, but not anymore.

Armor doesn't matter when you have shields.
I duel alot. In 1.5, I could win vs most sorcs with ease with my 2h templar. The day when 1.6 came, even a random sorc is giving me hard time on my updated build. Difference is huge.

MADshadowman

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

If you just sit there and do nothing.

Please do more tests on this and see yourself. Do some 1v1 duels.
Im telling you because you ask for buffs for already op class currently with some specific builds.
Also Im playing 2h build on my templar main. It's op too. Both needs to tuned down.

And not everyone using fotm 2h builds. Your argument is invalid here. There is only one thing to barely counter your shield spam is that lol wrecking blow spam or snipe with insane burst. But they dont have both best defence via shields and best offence like some sorc builds.

I don't have to do tests, i'm pvp'ing everyday for at least 5-6 hours. i know what i'm talking about. You on the other seem to not really know that. I consider myself a pretty good sorcerer, but 2H are a sorcerers weak spot, since they hit very hard on someone who has basically no armor, and crit rush spamming makes it possible to follow a streaking sorcerer all the time, if he can't get a dodge roll in between the streaks.

Snipe isn't as strong anymore. Yesterday i was standing in front of a keep, letting 3 people constantly snipe me for a minute and i laughed at them. If you're not stealth attacking, your snipe won't do much damage.

Yeah okay, you are pvper. Then you know what I meant. Just be honest and don't pretend that your class is weak. It was maybe, but not anymore.

Armor doesn't matter when you have shields.
I duel alot. In 1.5, I could win vs most sorcs with ease with my 2h templar. The day when 1.6 came, even a random sorc is giving me hard time on my updated build. Difference is huge.

i never said my class was weak, i did some pretty horrible things to entire zergs, and they probably couldn't believe what happened to them, but that doesn't come from a good and balanced class. It comes from a player who spent a lot of time getting to know his class and learning how to be competitive with low dps and squishiness. I am definitely squishier now than in 1.5.

And armor does matter, cause you can't always have a shield up and like i said, a strong 2H user rips through your shields so fast, you can't even see them popping up. A sorc who constantly has to spam his shields, can't do damage and it's only a matter of time, til your magicka is gone or you make a mistake or get the timing wrong and what's left is a thin layer of cloth that won't stop a 2H in any way.

Demira

Artemiisia wrote: »

Rydik wrote: »

Sorcerers whining... again

the problem is more like this, as templar and dk I can run through the content killing everything in my part without even breaking a sweat, they are the easiest classes to play.

sorcerer actually takes skill to master, and for the casual players this class is surely not the class to play as long as it sits like it do now.

Don't you know that the DK and Templars are the favorites of ZoS and to hell with the other classes? (Sarcasm off)

cozmon3c_ESO

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

sure, any stealth attack is our death. anytime were up against 2 people we are dead, mostly. i have never died so much before even with damage sheilds.

the problem is that we have to stack full magicka just to do comparable dps with 2 hand wrecking blow spammers who probalby have points in health and stam

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

Soris_ESO wrote: »

MADshadowman wrote: »

A strong 2H build can get through all the shields within 2 seconds

If you just sit there and do nothing.

Please do more tests on this and see yourself. Do some 1v1 duels.
Im telling you because you ask for buffs for already op class currently with some specific builds.
Also Im playing 2h build on my templar main. It's op too. Both needs to tuned down.

And not everyone using fotm 2h builds. Your argument is invalid here. There is only one thing to barely counter your shield spam is that lol wrecking blow spam or snipe with insane burst. But they dont have both best defence via shields and best offence like some sorc builds.

I don't have to do tests, i'm pvp'ing everyday for at least 5-6 hours. i know what i'm talking about. You on the other seem to not really know that. I consider myself a pretty good sorcerer, but 2H are a sorcerers weak spot, since they hit very hard on someone who has basically no armor, and crit rush spamming makes it possible to follow a streaking sorcerer all the time, if he can't get a dodge roll in between the streaks.

Snipe isn't as strong anymore. Yesterday i was standing in front of a keep, letting 3 people constantly snipe me for a minute and i laughed at them. If you're not stealth attacking, your snipe won't do much damage.

Yeah okay, you are pvper. Then you know what I meant. Just be honest and don't pretend that your class is weak. It was maybe, but not anymore.

Armor doesn't matter when you have shields.
I duel alot. In 1.5, I could win vs most sorcs with ease with my 2h templar. The day when 1.6 came, even a random sorc is giving me hard time on my updated build. Difference is huge.

why are you not using the jesus beam, a sorc cant even run away if you use that, it follows them for farther then the range you can cast it and goes around objects. also as a sorc with light armor if i try and block the jesus beam i lose all my stamina instantly.

Robbmrp

Nifty2g wrote: »

if you're bad players then git gud

They can work on their gaming skills while you can work on your spelling lol

Grao

Soris_ESO wrote: »

Did you guys even pvp'ed in last 2 days? You are such an op shiet with all those burst and shields when you stack magicka. Overload lights alone hit around 12k, Frags 9k lol. What are you taking about?
L2P, git gut and stop crying.

You need to L2Read. There is a huge difference between PvP and PvE. Yes, sorcerers have great burst for extremely short fights, which make them powerful in PvP. The problem is, the amount of burst we do does not translate well into long fights and in PvE any significant fight is long and require sustain DPS, an area where sorcerer's numbers are lacking profoundly.

No one here is talking about PvP...

Sphinx2318

yeah? well DK's are DEAD so........

phairdon

Looks like some of the answers lay within the champion points system.


Whats up with the new staff bash & casting animations?

Demira

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Did gold key Darkshade yesterday.

PUG group - but all known to me and decent players.

I was wearing all vet 14 legendaries - 2 Torug's, 4 MK, 2 Cyrodiils Light, 2 Valkyn Skoria.

18.5K health (food buffed), ~29K Magicka (food buffed), 10K spell resistance, 5K armour (6 Light, 1 Medium armours), 2K spell power, almost 2.3K with Surge.

I was averaging about 9K on the boss - didn't use Liquid Lighting as the boss moves nearly all the time making this so-called 'DoT' useless, just like it is on many other bosses.

10K instant cast ranged add atttacks... 16K lightning hits from the boss, death stats reading things like 20-40K poison damage from the 'don't pull the levers' phase. 6K fire pool ticks.

Our Light Armoured Templar healer was fragged pretty often and was the first to leave, albeit after 12 wipes while we were sorting out tactics.

We worked out the tactics necessary, we are old MMO hands and used to working for our loot... but wow - you couldn't make a single mistake. Not one - and on a dungeon boss that drops gear no-one geared up enough to do it is really interested in, except the rare drop mask - woooo...

So - being crap at dps in a REAL fight where the enemy doesn't handily stand still and bend over for the magicka Sorc is the kind of dissapointment anyone with half a brain could have seen a mile off.

Guess I've got half a brain. Cool...

However, as the run isn't timed, that my dps was pants didn't irritate me too much.

The nerf to Light Armour - upon which the magicka dps build absolutely HAS to be based around due to the cost reductions on vastly over-priced magicka abilities... well... that has left us in a very bad place indeed.

The DK Tank had 22K spell resistance and 20K armour...

... just read those figures again and compare it to Light Armour with the LA passive to increase SR...

... yeah, that's right...

With the only protective magic I could afford to cast (constant Hardened Shield or LA shield proved too expensive to maintain anything but a trickle of dps due to the constant recasting necessary) - I used Thundering Presence - I had 13.5K SR and 9.5K armour.

I melted when I got hit for the numbers you see above nevertheless...

In the end I had to run it with a Guild Team to finish it with Vet 14's and use the one set of tactics we had worked out with a Templar healer for the ulti. We had to pull it off pretty flawlessly. They are all very good players, including ex-Hodor who left for personal reasons, and so naturally it got done.

However, the following conclusions are, based on pre-patch predictions, PTS play and last night's experience, almost axiomatic, and the real point of this post;

1. The Light Armour Nerf - FAR too hard and FAR too much in terms of Spell Resistance.
2. Non-static target dps for magicka Sorcerers is as low as we expected - dross compared to other classes.
3. The difficulty level of dungeons is tuned far too high for casuals and people without top gear - this will likely be a significant shock to this set of players - who, by the way, constitute the vast majority of players... you know, the majority of CUSTOMERS Zenimax are supposed to try to make money from.
4. The loot drops from such challenging encounters are, frankly, a joke and need a comprehensive overhaul. If you work hard, you gotta get PAID.
5. Making known content that people have run many times... have farmed for months... and turning it into a 'you've gotta learn how to beat me again' wipefest for a majority of players is just poisonous for player ployalty. If you introduce hard content - you should make it NEW content, and reward appropriately for success against it. Come on Zenimax - this is 'How to Make an MMO for Dummies' stuff!

Personally I don't know how heavy the bias was towards soliciting feedback only from hardcore PvP'ers, 'Play all Day' Blog Reviewers and hardcore PvE'ers, but the screw has been wound too tight foor the majority of your paying customers...

Frankly, the kinds of players who can match my level of PvE play and gear, or indeed exceed it by some margin, aren't the target metric Zenimax shouldn be listening to. Sure there needs to be gated content for hard challenges, but that's not the point.

To put no finer point on it - 'Leet' players need to stop talking over the main player base, shut up and in doing so, actually assist in the future success of the game.

Here's a fact - the vast majority of people don't care how much dps you get with 'build x' - they actually just want to enjoy the game without being escorted to the exit by poorly thought out changes to something they used too enjoy recommended and demanded by the small but vocal minority.

If Zenimax want to make a game for a niche few top players, that is their affair. It's pretty comprehensively stupid... but their decision.

I for one don't want to wade through idiotic class nerfs, overtuned content with no rewards that I've run many times already and suffer a depopulation of the server (and my Guild based on last night's TS conversations) just because Zenimax needs to listen more and dismiss critical feedback less.

Mark my words Zenimax - FAR better to hotfix your mistakes now, than try to rescue your failing bottom line later...

I couldn't agree with you more!

Reykice

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Did gold key Darkshade yesterday.

PUG group - but all known to me and decent players.

I was wearing all vet 14 legendaries - 2 Torug's, 4 MK, 2 Cyrodiils Light, 2 Valkyn Skoria.

18.5K health (food buffed), ~29K Magicka (food buffed), 10K spell resistance, 5K armour (6 Light, 1 Medium armours), 2K spell power, almost 2.3K with Surge.

I was averaging about 9K on the boss - didn't use Liquid Lighting as the boss moves nearly all the time making this so-called 'DoT' useless, just like it is on many other bosses.

10K instant cast ranged add atttacks... 16K lightning hits from the boss, death stats reading things like 20-40K poison damage from the 'don't pull the levers' phase. 6K fire pool ticks.

Our Light Armoured Templar healer was fragged pretty often and was the first to leave, albeit after 12 wipes while we were sorting out tactics.

We worked out the tactics necessary, we are old MMO hands and used to working for our loot... but wow - you couldn't make a single mistake. Not one - and on a dungeon boss that drops gear no-one geared up enough to do it is really interested in, except the rare drop mask - woooo...

So - being crap at dps in a REAL fight where the enemy doesn't handily stand still and bend over for the magicka Sorc is the kind of dissapointment anyone with half a brain could have seen a mile off.

Guess I've got half a brain. Cool...

However, as the run isn't timed, that my dps was pants didn't irritate me too much.

The nerf to Light Armour - upon which the magicka dps build absolutely HAS to be based around due to the cost reductions on vastly over-priced magicka abilities... well... that has left us in a very bad place indeed.

The DK Tank had 22K spell resistance and 20K armour...

... just read those figures again and compare it to Light Armour with the LA passive to increase SR...

... yeah, that's right...

With the only protective magic I could afford to cast (constant Hardened Shield or LA shield proved too expensive to maintain anything but a trickle of dps due to the constant recasting necessary) - I used Thundering Presence - I had 13.5K SR and 9.5K armour.

I melted when I got hit for the numbers you see above nevertheless...

In the end I had to run it with a Guild Team to finish it with Vet 14's and use the one set of tactics we had worked out with a Templar healer for the ulti. We had to pull it off pretty flawlessly. They are all very good players, including ex-Hodor who left for personal reasons, and so naturally it got done.

However, the following conclusions are, based on pre-patch predictions, PTS play and last night's experience, almost axiomatic, and the real point of this post;

1. The Light Armour Nerf - FAR too hard and FAR too much in terms of Spell Resistance.
2. Non-static target dps for magicka Sorcerers is as low as we expected - dross compared to other classes.
3. The difficulty level of dungeons is tuned far too high for casuals and people without top gear - this will likely be a significant shock to this set of players - who, by the way, constitute the vast majority of players... you know, the majority of CUSTOMERS Zenimax are supposed to try to make money from.
4. The loot drops from such challenging encounters are, frankly, a joke and need a comprehensive overhaul. If you work hard, you gotta get PAID.
5. Making known content that people have run many times... have farmed for months... and turning it into a 'you've gotta learn how to beat me again' wipefest for a majority of players is just poisonous for player ployalty. If you introduce hard content - you should make it NEW content, and reward appropriately for success against it. Come on Zenimax - this is 'How to Make an MMO for Dummies' stuff!

Personally I don't know how heavy the bias was towards soliciting feedback only from hardcore PvP'ers, 'Play all Day' Blog Reviewers and hardcore PvE'ers, but the screw has been wound too tight foor the majority of your paying customers...

Frankly, the kinds of players who can match my level of PvE play and gear, or indeed exceed it by some margin, aren't the target metric Zenimax shouldn be listening to. Sure there needs to be gated content for hard challenges, but that's not the point.

To put no finer point on it - 'Leet' players need to stop talking over the main player base, shut up and in doing so, actually assist in the future success of the game.

Here's a fact - the vast majority of people don't care how much dps you get with 'build x' - they actually just want to enjoy the game without being escorted to the exit by poorly thought out changes to something they used too enjoy recommended and demanded by the small but vocal minority.

If Zenimax want to make a game for a niche few top players, that is their affair. It's pretty comprehensively stupid... but their decision.

I for one don't want to wade through idiotic class nerfs, overtuned content with no rewards that I've run many times already and suffer a depopulation of the server (and my Guild based on last night's TS conversations) just because Zenimax needs to listen more and dismiss critical feedback less.

Mark my words Zenimax - FAR better to hotfix your mistakes now, than try to rescue your failing bottom line later...

Well said... its really putting me off the game to see how they changed it for the worst after promising so much...

Kildayen

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Did gold key Darkshade yesterday.

PUG group - but all known to me and decent players.

I was wearing all vet 14 legendaries - 2 Torug's, 4 MK, 2 Cyrodiils Light, 2 Valkyn Skoria.

18.5K health (food buffed), ~29K Magicka (food buffed), 10K spell resistance, 5K armour (6 Light, 1 Medium armours), 2K spell power, almost 2.3K with Surge.

I was averaging about 9K on the boss - didn't use Liquid Lighting as the boss moves nearly all the time making this so-called 'DoT' useless, just like it is on many other bosses.

10K instant cast ranged add atttacks... 16K lightning hits from the boss, death stats reading things like 20-40K poison damage from the 'don't pull the levers' phase. 6K fire pool ticks.

Our Light Armoured Templar healer was fragged pretty often and was the first to leave, albeit after 12 wipes while we were sorting out tactics.

We worked out the tactics necessary, we are old MMO hands and used to working for our loot... but wow - you couldn't make a single mistake. Not one - and on a dungeon boss that drops gear no-one geared up enough to do it is really interested in, except the rare drop mask - woooo...

So - being crap at dps in a REAL fight where the enemy doesn't handily stand still and bend over for the magicka Sorc is the kind of dissapointment anyone with half a brain could have seen a mile off.

Guess I've got half a brain. Cool...

However, as the run isn't timed, that my dps was pants didn't irritate me too much.

The nerf to Light Armour - upon which the magicka dps build absolutely HAS to be based around due to the cost reductions on vastly over-priced magicka abilities... well... that has left us in a very bad place indeed.

The DK Tank had 22K spell resistance and 20K armour...

... just read those figures again and compare it to Light Armour with the LA passive to increase SR...

... yeah, that's right...

With the only protective magic I could afford to cast (constant Hardened Shield or LA shield proved too expensive to maintain anything but a trickle of dps due to the constant recasting necessary) - I used Thundering Presence - I had 13.5K SR and 9.5K armour.

I melted when I got hit for the numbers you see above nevertheless...

In the end I had to run it with a Guild Team to finish it with Vet 14's and use the one set of tactics we had worked out with a Templar healer for the ulti. We had to pull it off pretty flawlessly. They are all very good players, including ex-Hodor who left for personal reasons, and so naturally it got done.

However, the following conclusions are, based on pre-patch predictions, PTS play and last night's experience, almost axiomatic, and the real point of this post;

1. The Light Armour Nerf - FAR too hard and FAR too much in terms of Spell Resistance.
2. Non-static target dps for magicka Sorcerers is as low as we expected - dross compared to other classes.
3. The difficulty level of dungeons is tuned far too high for casuals and people without top gear - this will likely be a significant shock to this set of players - who, by the way, constitute the vast majority of players... you know, the majority of CUSTOMERS Zenimax are supposed to try to make money from.
4. The loot drops from such challenging encounters are, frankly, a joke and need a comprehensive overhaul. If you work hard, you gotta get PAID.
5. Making known content that people have run many times... have farmed for months... and turning it into a 'you've gotta learn how to beat me again' wipefest for a majority of players is just poisonous for player ployalty. If you introduce hard content - you should make it NEW content, and reward appropriately for success against it. Come on Zenimax - this is 'How to Make an MMO for Dummies' stuff!

Personally I don't know how heavy the bias was towards soliciting feedback only from hardcore PvP'ers, 'Play all Day' Blog Reviewers and hardcore PvE'ers, but the screw has been wound too tight foor the majority of your paying customers...

Frankly, the kinds of players who can match my level of PvE play and gear, or indeed exceed it by some margin, aren't the target metric Zenimax shouldn be listening to. Sure there needs to be gated content for hard challenges, but that's not the point.

To put no finer point on it - 'Leet' players need to stop talking over the main player base, shut up and in doing so, actually assist in the future success of the game.

Here's a fact - the vast majority of people don't care how much dps you get with 'build x' - they actually just want to enjoy the game without being escorted to the exit by poorly thought out changes to something they used too enjoy recommended and demanded by the small but vocal minority.

If Zenimax want to make a game for a niche few top players, that is their affair. It's pretty comprehensively stupid... but their decision.

I for one don't want to wade through idiotic class nerfs, overtuned content with no rewards that I've run many times already and suffer a depopulation of the server (and my Guild based on last night's TS conversations) just because Zenimax needs to listen more and dismiss critical feedback less.

Mark my words Zenimax - FAR better to hotfix your mistakes now, than try to rescue your failing bottom line later...

Thank you!

Snit

Grao wrote: »

Zenimax already admitted they made mistakes with the 1.6 sorcerer, their little statements saying they will keep an eye on our numbers and that the devs are bouncing ideas to try helping the class are or a veiled apology or simple admission of fault.

I read that as Gina trying to prevent a forum riot, not an admission of error. I hope you're right. I expect little.