Request: please remove classes

Demeos

I say keep the classes and remove Player/NPC levels.

You'd still have to level up your skills/abilities, but you'd be free to do so on any map, in any dungeon, with anyone. The only wall being your ability to overcome obstacles using your class's skills with your own ability to outwit your opponent.

Vizier

The min-maxers would pretty much force there to be a couple builds and in the end we'd have less variety than we do now IMO. Rather see them limit the NPC guilds characters can join, especially if they become Vamp/WW to cause even more separation.

dodgehopper_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

-Choose ONE daedric prince, get his skill line. Or choose ONE of the eight divines.

I still can't shake the feeling that this is what the classes in ESO actually are though. A connection, one of the daedric princes... Mephala or Nocturnal for NBs, Meridia for Temps, Peyrite or Mehrunes Dagon for DKs, and Hermaeus Mora for Sorcs.

Actually there's some connection to Meridia and Azura in Sorcerer abilities as well. Some of the abilities even discuss this.

Skjoldur

That was the first thing I said when I saw that ESO was having classes. I would have wished that it has class skill lines that could be changed just like the weapons.

This will never happen though...

Fizzlewizzle

I do like this idea... it would create a lot more possible builds.

Players only have a set amount of skill points they can distribute, so having people that max out every passive seems very unlikely. It wouldn't be very useful ether... why max out elemental based passives then you never use elemental spells.

Sure... there will be min-maxers out there that go for some face-rolling build, but there are only so much skills you can slot.
It will stop the discussion of "this class is stronger than that class", since everyone can use everything. Only some internal fixing would be needed is something happens to be a bit wonky, but it wouldn't shift the balance between classes.

For me as a "passive" player it would be ideal. Having access to lots of pets to do the fighting for me would make it much more easy for me.

Build i would run:

Active skills: 24 points:
Class Passives: 36 points

Bar 1: Restoration Staff.
- Mark Target (Nightblade)
- Purifying Light (Templar)
- Dark Shades (Nightblade)
- Unstable Clannfear (Sorcerer)
- Restoring Twilight (Sorcerer)
Ultimate: Greater Storm Atronach (Sorcerer)

Bar 2: Restoration Staff.
- Dark Flare(Templar)
- Crystal Fragments (Sorcerer)
- Dragon Fire Scales (Dragonknight)
- Total Dark (Templar)
- Dark Conversion (Sorcerer)
Ultimate: Corrosive Armor (Dragonknight)

DK Passives: 6 points
- Battle Roar (2)
- Iron Skin (2)
- Scaled Armor (2)

Sorcerer Passives: 18 points
- Rebate (2)
- Power Stone (2)
- Deadric Protection (2)
- Expert Summoner (2)
- Unholy Knowledge (2)
- Capacitor (2)
- Expert Mage (2)
- Blood Magic (2)
- Exploitation (2)

Nightblade passives: 2 points
- Refreshing Shadows (2)

Templar Passives: 10 points
- Balanced Warrior (2)
- Enduring Rays (2)
- Illuminate (2)
- Restoring Spirit (2)
- Master Ritualist (2)

What would other people use for builds if this became possible?

bosmern_ESO

I believe that there should still be classes, but have most abilities be put into a skill pool all classes can access.

At the moment every class has it's 'signature abilities'. being:

Sorc - Bolt escape, summon pets, Crystal fragments
Dragon Knight - Talons, GDB, Whip, flames, chain
Nightblade - invis, strife, teleport strike, shades, fear
Templar - Javelin, spear shards, Radiant destruction, Breath of life

Above is what I see as each classes signature ability, idk if everyone would agree.

But what I'm saying is that all other abilities the classes have should be put into another skill tree(s). The classes would have their signature abilities that other classes couldn't use.

If there are no classes you'd have bolt escaping, talon spamming, bat swarming, fear spam, BoL players, which would be no fun.

Fizzlewizzle

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I believe that there should still be classes, but have most abilities be put into a skill pool all classes can access.

At the moment every class has it's 'signature abilities'. being:

Sorc - Bolt escape, summon pets, Crystal fragments
Dragon Knight - Talons, GDB, Whip, flames, chain
Nightblade - invis, strife, teleport strike, shades, fear
Templar - Javelin, spear shards, Radiant destruction, Breath of life

Above is what I see as each classes signature ability, idk if everyone would agree.

But what I'm saying is that all other abilities the classes have should be put into another skill tree(s). The classes would have their signature abilities that other classes couldn't use.

If there are no classes you'd have bolt escaping, talon spamming, bat swarming, fear spam, BoL players, which would be no fun.

I think such things are much easier to balance then the individual classes.
Bolt escape's price could become higher, Talons could become breakable with added CC immunity, Fear could also come with immunity, and BoL could come with a much higher price. Not much to say about bats.

Now you have people asking for nerfs for the abilities they can't use and buffs for the ones they can use. Just look at the topics on the forums... so many complaints.

As for the skills you mentioned... i wouldn't really call them signature abilities. Its just common tools people use because they have advantages over other skills.
- From what i understand most Sorcerers don't like the pets since they take up so many of your action slots.
- GDB and Breath of life are basically the same, though one is for personal use and the other for group use.
- Shades and Summon pets is also basically the same. You summon a helper (one takes longer to cast, but is also permanent).
- Chain, Teleport Strike and Focused Charge are gap closers (one can pull instead of charge, though only if the enemy doesn't have cc immunity)
- Spear chards is just like Lightning Splash.
- Whip and Javelin serve the same purpose, though one is ranged.
- Radiant Destruction is just a channeled version of assassins blade.

You have some of which may be more unique, but those are the ones that receive a lot of bashing.

daswahnsinn

Okay, remove all classes, and give us one set of armor, one weapon, one bar, 5 skills/abilities. So everyone has the exact same set up and everyone is the same. Seriously though, learn how to play your class you make a new one. this isn't Skyrim, which has low replay value, imho, versus ESO.

Fizzlewizzle

daswahnsinn wrote: »

Okay, remove all classes, and give us one set of armor, one weapon, one bar, 5 skills/abilities. So everyone has the exact same set up and everyone is the same. Seriously though, learn how to play your class you make a new one. this isn't Skyrim, which has low replay value, imho, versus ESO.

Wow... that is really close minded.
You think that 4 classes with 18 skills (36 morphs) give more diversity than 1 "class" with 72 different skills (144 morphs). And, lets not forget that you also have the non-class restricted skills.

This topic so much about not wanting to learn how to to play a class... its getting rid of all the imbalance between classes.
I'm a Templar... do a short search on the forums for Templar Complaints.
Or look a bit further back, at Dragonknight complaints.
Maybe Sorcerers... so many complaints and nerf requests aimed at them
Don't know much about NB's, but from what i understand was that at the beginning of the game half there skills didn't work... wouldn't have that problem without classes... you would have enough options.

jelliedsoup

FrostixX wrote: »

Man, you forgot this is an MMO, and in every MMO, there are always classes whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

The "all MMOs" or appealing to the majority argument has just been signed off by MMO.com as an invalid basis to justify anything in an MMO.

Ffastyl

Spellcrafting is on the back burner but ZOS stated back at the Quakecon panel that it would introduce the seven (eight?*) schools of magic. This would also be an opportunity to take all the class abilities and divide them among the schools of magic, with some alterations if necessary.
If a something close to a class system is still wanted, the player can be restricted to picking three (for example's sake) schools of magic to specialize in. Specialized schools will offer access to all skills, including those originally from the current classes, while non-specialized schools are restricted to "novice" spells and spellcrafted abilities. Specialized schools can be changed for a fee, likely from the Mages Guild. That fee should be close to or higher than that of respecing one's character, as this is effectively changing your class -- something restricted under the current system.

*A book ingame by Gabriella proposes the division of magic into schools, listing eight schools of magic. She notes that some of them have overlap and may be combined.

eventide03b14a_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

So remove the "Class" requirement and have all skill tree's available for everyone. That's what they should have done from the start. Then everyone would have been able to pick the Skill lines they preferred. If you wanted pets there you go. The freedom to really "Play as you want" would be there for sure.

Balance would be out the window with that, and there would absolutely be an "uber-build" that would be pretty much required of all players if they wanted to be competitive. It's not a feasible option.

If that were true people would already be doing it. Your argument makes no sense. Not everyone plays the same class as it is so why would they all suddenly have the same build?

eventide03b14a_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Majic wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Balance would be out the window with that, and there would absolutely be an "uber-build" that would be pretty much required of all players if they wanted to be competitive. It's not a feasible option.

And that would be different from the current situation how, exactly?

Currently, there are perceived uber-builds, but there's actually a lot of diversity in the game. And although Templars are the clear favorite for healing at the moment, the other classes are fairly well balanced in terms of being effective tanks or damage dealers.

Opening up all skill lines to all characters would completely destroy the balance of the game, and not just in the way that people could be snarky about it. In the way that people would stop playing because of how bad it was.

The diversity you speak of has nothing to do with classes. Your making a statement that we are supposed to accept as fact without giving any actual reasons for it. You're argument looks like it has merit but in reality it doesn't. I have a dozen friends who all played Skyrim in different ways. The same will happen with ESO.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Majic wrote: »

Balanced Imbalance

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Opening up all skill lines to all characters would completely destroy the balance of the game, and not just in the way that people could be snarky about it. In the way that people would stop playing because of how bad it was.

Giving all characters access to the same skills is inherently balanced, so this claim seems somewhat specious.

The only meaningful difference between a classless system and the current system is that some skill lines are partitioned off in the current regime, but since any player can choose to play any class, and all players have enough character slots to play two of each class, even that difference is arbitrary.

As things stand, there are already uber "FOTM" builds, and if we go with your assumption, we would expect there to be four of them, since each class would have that one "uber-build", yet you say "there's actually a lot of diversity in the game".

Or perhaps that's what you mean by "perceived" uber-builds?

It's not clear and seems self-contradictory, hence my questions.

This is exactly how SWG was before the JTLS update. SWG was a far better game before they introduced classes.

eventide03b14a_ESO

dharbert wrote: »

No. Learn to play within the confines of your chosen class. If all class skills were available to everyone, all you would see is GDB, scales, bolt escape, standard, etc... on every single build.

Why do you assume people will play the same. It just doesn't make any sense. Even within classes there is diversity. You have come up with an opinion based largely in an unfounded fear and are attempting to find facts to back it up. It's just not true.

eventide03b14a_ESO

daswahnsinn wrote: »

Okay, remove all classes, and give us one set of armor, one weapon, one bar, 5 skills/abilities. So everyone has the exact same set up and everyone is the same. Seriously though, learn how to play your class you make a new one. this isn't Skyrim, which has low replay value, imho, versus ESO.

Skryim has low replay value? Your individual experience is not in line with everyone I know personally who has ( and still continues to play) Skryim.

Fizzlewizzle

@eventide03b14a_ESO You know you can post multiple reactions in a single post (as well as quotes). No need for 4 posts.
I do agree with you though...

Edit: 5 posts.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO You know you can post multiple reactions in a single post (as well as quotes). No need for 4 posts.
I do agree with you though...

Edit: 5 posts.

Thanks. I was just posting as I read them. Either way this thread is going nowhere. As much as I wish it was a skill based game I have already accepted it's never going to happen. I find it irritating that people are simply making things up about a system they obviously have no experience with.

Fizzlewizzle

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO You know you can post multiple reactions in a single post (as well as quotes). No need for 4 posts.
I do agree with you though...

Edit: 5 posts.

Thanks. I was just posting as I read them. Either way this thread is going nowhere. As much as I wish it was a skill based game I have already accepted it's never going to happen. I find it irritating that people are simply making things up about a system they obviously have no experience with.

Never say never.
Currently this game has little to no replay value. Playing through the same stories 4 times (you have to become VR14 somehow, to gain everything a single class has to offer) won't be on everyone's wishlist. Personally i'm only rolling with 1 character because i would be FORCED to see everything a second time.

Unlike Skyrim there are no ways to level quickly without having to do everything again. Zenimax made sure of that.

Dagger Hadvar before leaving the tutorial to gain level 100 sneak.
Lure a Giant towards the watchtower close to Whiterun and summon swords to level Conjuration to level 100
Talk to some NPC in Riften for 20 minutes and have speech level 100
Hurt and heal yourself to level Restoration to level 100.
And a lot more.

I'm VR10 and have played this character since launch. If replay Value equals leveling characters then this game has more then enough content for 4 years+. Leveling 16 Class skill trees to max (on a single account, if we didn't have classes) takes a lot of time and (ingame) money, since you don't have enough skill points to max everything.

If all classes were accessible on 1 character then it would take zenimax a lot less time balancing, which could be used to create content for the costumers. People could exploit a lot less and people would complain less as no one is getting nerfed compared to any other player, and everyone is capable of doing the same (DPS wise, Healing wise or Tanking wise).

All the Talk about Nerfing would stop, and talk about balancing would begin.
"A Templars Healing may not be stronger then that of a Nightblade, because it wouldn't be fair for us" would change to "The Siphoning skill tree is supposed to heal less than then the Restoring Light tree, since Restoring Light is a specialized healing tree, while Siphoning also deals damage."

RainfeatherUK

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why do you assume people will play the same. It just doesn't make any sense. Even within classes there is diversity. You have come up with an opinion based largely in an unfounded fear and are attempting to find facts to back it up. It's just not true.

Because in PvP winning is all that matters. So whoever has the alpha build will be copied until its nerfed. There is no room for diversity outside the most effective meta. At least if you want to be competitive.

Less is more. Classes create restriction which forces diversity despite the meta, contributing to its evolution.

Its my belief Balancing should remain an active and constantly reviewed process. One that evolves, not stagnates under a classless system where they can continue to further ignore it/broken skills.

I hate the idea of a classless system. As a PvPer I want greater class uniqueness and meaning - Not a Blur and not a mess. But you know, thats my opinion and it wont change.

Fizzlewizzle

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why do you assume people will play the same. It just doesn't make any sense. Even within classes there is diversity. You have come up with an opinion based largely in an unfounded fear and are attempting to find facts to back it up. It's just not true.

Because in PvP winning is all that matters. So whoever has the alpha build will be copied until its nerfed. There is no room for diversity outside the most effective meta. At least if you want to be competitive.

Less is more. Classes create restriction which forces diversity despite the meta, contributing to its evolution.

Its my belief Balancing should remain an active and constantly reviewed process. One that evolves, not stagnates under a classless system where they can continue to further ignore it/broken skills.

I hate the idea of a classless system. As a PvPer I want greater class uniqueness and meaning - Not a Blur and not a mess. But you know, thats my opinion and it wont change.

Some people play for fun.
There is 0% chance that everyone plays the same, since everyone has its own playstyle.
Why would i use some brainess ganking build when i'm an healer.
Why would some mage run arround with a 2h sword?
Why would a sneaky assassin run arround in heavy armor?

Just because "it is the best set-up" doesnt mean it is fit for someone's playstyle.

WraithAzraiel

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

RainfeatherUK wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Why do you assume people will play the same. It just doesn't make any sense. Even within classes there is diversity. You have come up with an opinion based largely in an unfounded fear and are attempting to find facts to back it up. It's just not true.

Because in PvP winning is all that matters. So whoever has the alpha build will be copied until its nerfed. There is no room for diversity outside the most effective meta. At least if you want to be competitive.

Less is more. Classes create restriction which forces diversity despite the meta, contributing to its evolution.

Its my belief Balancing should remain an active and constantly reviewed process. One that evolves, not stagnates under a classless system where they can continue to further ignore it/broken skills.

I hate the idea of a classless system. As a PvPer I want greater class uniqueness and meaning - Not a Blur and not a mess. But you know, thats my opinion and it wont change.

Some people play for fun.
There is 0% chance that everyone plays the same, since everyone has its own playstyle.
Why would i use some brainess ganking build when i'm an healer.
Why would some mage run arround with a 2h sword?
Why would a sneaky assassin run arround in heavy armor?

Just because "it is the best set-up" doesnt mean it is fit for someone's playstyle.

Those people with their own unique "playstyle" would be obsolete and never get groups, because they're not min/max'd for the best role when it's completely possible. Obsolete = less replayability.


So you can be as individual as you want, you can be so individual that you're less effective as someone with a copy/paste cookie cutter faceroll build that removing classes would allow EVERYONE to run.


Long story short, removing classes would murder any sense of diversity this game currently has.

WraithAzraiel

Why is this topic even still discussed?

If you want to put all the skills into everything and be a god, go play Skyrim, or Oblivion, or Morrowind. Or another single player game that allows that kind of play.


Or wait for Elder Scrolls 12: Skyrowblivion The Wreckoning of the Dragonborn vs Mehrunes Bal and Molag Dagon ROUND 1



FIGHT!

renton1x1x1

Fizzlewizzle

renton1x1x1 wrote: »

No staffmember has said anything here, so nothing is dead.
Lets continue...

WraithAzraiel

No, it's sufficiently dead. Threads like these are cesspits and breeding grounds for troll-ish remarks and lackluster justifications bestowing false hope to the ignorant/stubborn and woefully uninformed. Or just those with unreasonable expectations.

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen this topic (or another like it) crop up on these forums and watched all the individuals who expected ESO to be Skyrim 2 With Friends get shaken out from their nests to post their 2 cents on the matter, I would never need to work another day in my life to support my family for as long as I live.


It's a nice concept, but the execution is near impossible and would ruin any sense of diversity.

You will never see a ZOS employee post on petition threads or demand threads like these EXCEPT in an administrative capacity, as illustrated with the removal of posts that are in breach of the Forum rules and the announcement of said actions.

They are likely under strict orders not to feed the rumor mill by posting on threads likes this.

The most you're ever likely to read is something along the lines of:

"Thank you for your ideas, we will consider them. Please remember to keep the conversation constructive and refrain from fighting. We understand everyone has different opinions, but we ask that your remain civil with your posts."

Just let it die.

They're not pulling this rabbit out of that hat. Not now.

WraithAzraiel

I applaud you all for trying to champion an issue for which you feel great passion, but it's not feasible with what they've built.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

I can see good reason why a classless system would be better. It would make introducing skill lines a whole lot easier and once those skill lines have been introduced, then it would only take a bit of gold to respec your character to put points into them skills instead of having to create a new character to see them in action.

However, my view is that it should not be possible to master every skill because in real life it is impossible to be a gun wielding, plane flying, bio-engineer, nuclear physicist, open heart surgeon. lock picking stay at home dad because plain and simply a person is not alive long enough to learn all of them skills and maintain them at a masters level (there are exceptions, but they are called exceptions for a reason!).

To reflect this in game, I would say you can have x number of skill lines to specialise in, have no barrier in the way to stop you from changing to any other skill line BUT if you move out of a skill line then over a period of time any skill line learned that is not in use will fade away (this could either be done as a simple time thing or as you learn xp in the new skill line it takes away xp from the skill line not in use). So you can have a master sword wielding, minion summoning, self healing, bat changing, pick pocket master of all crafting but realise that you can't wear any armour except for simple clothing with no protection. And armour should be more prohibitive in what it can allow you to do, so no sneaking in the shadows trying to pick pocket someone in full plate armour.

ThisOnePosts

I would much rather they add more classes, not take away classes. Spell-crafting (whenever it will be released --- as long as they stick to releasing it) will add a lot of balance between classes. It will be a great set-up for them to add more classes as well.

Aneima

So I guess they would have to erase all of the lore as well. You want a classless game? Go play stupid Albion or something. I'm sick of posts like this with people trying to change the game into something that they want and something this game is not. No one is forcing you to play ESO. Just leave already and watch the door on your way out. I can't even imagine the stupidity of future topics that will appear come March 17th.