On Overall 1.6 Nerf Issue, It's Time To Stand Up And Say "Enough Is Enough"

Spiritreaver_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

So essentially what i am taking away from the OP and elsewhere i've heard the same sentiment is that the CS is taking all VR lvl'd charcters down to pretty much a base freshly made lvl 50. Then you get 70 CP(max for VR14 folks) to distribute straight away to start retuning.

Coming from a long time FFXI guy, this sounds a lot like ZoS is actually trying to roll out their own version of the Merit system from the aforementioned game. And personally i think this is a good thing. Going further, ZoS should have rolled this system out much sooner imo.

Sure it is gonna take more time to 'max out' a character now. But that should really not be an issue when content is gonna scale. And really what is the rush to anyways?

@ the other prevalent sentiment that i see coupled with the main one from the OP(paraphrased-'All my work on my build has been flushed!!!'), please tell me that this isn't your first MMO. Because unless it is, you should well know that every time there is a major overhaul to game mechanics/systems, there is a good chance that your playstyle will need to be adapted.

Now off-topic-ish

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

Nerevarine1138, i disagree with a fair amount of what you say. I hold my tongue and keep moving because they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. But i have to speak at the small bold bit of the post of yours i quoted...i agree with you 100%. I drives me up the wall when characters a referred to as toons.

Agree with the whole of that post actually, but double-down agree with the terminology bit.

What we are all trying to get at is they nerfed everything and expect us to make up the difference using cp gains....but it takes 4 to 5 hours to get single point...and that's just from grinding exp. They need to adjust the amount of time it takes to earn a point

I don't doubt that there will be adjustments to CP acquisition in time as the new system is fine-tuned. But what i see being lost on you joe and some others is that the whole point is to have it take time to get to the top of the mountain-this is a MMO.

What VR ranks and now its successor CS are called by some are 'time-sinks' and they have been a part of MMOs since the start. The very start. Folks got to the heights of the VR system in this game too fast in ZoS's view, seems that the 'powers that be' are seeking to remedy that.

This situation is not new, imo its just taken ZoS a bit too long to finally start approaching it properly.

ContraTempo

From what I have seen, MMOs always put out a stream of nerfs. The top players always end up more powerful than the game designers imagined so they scale it all back a bit to put the challenge and balance back in the game.

I'm not sure it really works though; some players really are just that much better than the average so you can never really balance it out. And those in between get caught in the squeeze.

But then, our toons are immortal...

Solanum

I've tried to play a stamina based fullplate warrior since beta.

I'm glad there are finally options in the game outside of wearing a dress in combination with a staff/sword and board blockfest.

Some people understand the game mechanics better then others, they came up with killer builds based upon high magicka and ultimate regeneration while keeping survivability with their stamina pool and not needing to invest in this. And I respect this, they make the best of their character with the tools given.

But we're far beyond that point, copying the cookie cutter builds is not a display of skill and knowhow. And it's long overdue that things got balanced a bit.

Rev Rielle

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

I have to disagree. The game in 1.6 is much better.

Yes we have to get out of our comfort zone and try new builds and play the game differently. But that's not a big deal.

Yes, the good/sensible players will adapt like they always do. The others, they will whine like they always do.

Joejudas

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

So essentially what i am taking away from the OP and elsewhere i've heard the same sentiment is that the CS is taking all VR lvl'd charcters down to pretty much a base freshly made lvl 50. Then you get 70 CP(max for VR14 folks) to distribute straight away to start retuning.

Coming from a long time FFXI guy, this sounds a lot like ZoS is actually trying to roll out their own version of the Merit system from the aforementioned game. And personally i think this is a good thing. Going further, ZoS should have rolled this system out much sooner imo.

Sure it is gonna take more time to 'max out' a character now. But that should really not be an issue when content is gonna scale. And really what is the rush to anyways?

@ the other prevalent sentiment that i see coupled with the main one from the OP(paraphrased-'All my work on my build has been flushed!!!'), please tell me that this isn't your first MMO. Because unless it is, you should well know that every time there is a major overhaul to game mechanics/systems, there is a good chance that your playstyle will need to be adapted.

Now off-topic-ish

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

Nerevarine1138, i disagree with a fair amount of what you say. I hold my tongue and keep moving because they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. But i have to speak at the small bold bit of the post of yours i quoted...i agree with you 100%. I drives me up the wall when characters a referred to as toons.

Agree with the whole of that post actually, but double-down agree with the terminology bit.

What we are all trying to get at is they nerfed everything and expect us to make up the difference using cp gains....but it takes 4 to 5 hours to get single point...and that's just from grinding exp. They need to adjust the amount of time it takes to earn a point

I don't doubt that there will be adjustments to CP acquisition in time as the new system is fine-tuned. But what i see being lost on you joe and some others is that the whole point is to have it take time to get to the top of the mountain-this is a MMO.

What VR ranks and now its successor CS are called by some are 'time-sinks' and they have been a part of MMOs since the start. The very start. Folks got to the heights of the VR system in this game too fast in ZoS's view, seems that the 'powers that be' are seeking to remedy that.

This situation is not new, imo its just taken ZoS a bit too long to finally start approaching it properly.

It's not lost on us...we are saying that if your are going to throw away our progress and essentially make us do it again...making the system take 4 or 5 hours to level a single point is ridiculous and insulting to the people who already put in 1200 hours into the game. This game will die if they put out the cp system like it is now. Do you think the casual b2p folks are going to put in all that time. They won't and ZOS will make it p2w and this game will wither and die. It's sad

rawne1980b16_ESO

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

(stop saying "toons")

Why?

It's been a common name for an in game avatar since the 1984 when an RPG called "Toon" was released.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)

I'm going to take a wild guess that your one of those that think it started with WoW.

Spiritreaver_ESO

Joejudas wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

So essentially what i am taking away from the OP and elsewhere i've heard the same sentiment is that the CS is taking all VR lvl'd charcters down to pretty much a base freshly made lvl 50. Then you get 70 CP(max for VR14 folks) to distribute straight away to start retuning.

Coming from a long time FFXI guy, this sounds a lot like ZoS is actually trying to roll out their own version of the Merit system from the aforementioned game. And personally i think this is a good thing. Going further, ZoS should have rolled this system out much sooner imo.

Sure it is gonna take more time to 'max out' a character now. But that should really not be an issue when content is gonna scale. And really what is the rush to anyways?

@ the other prevalent sentiment that i see coupled with the main one from the OP(paraphrased-'All my work on my build has been flushed!!!'), please tell me that this isn't your first MMO. Because unless it is, you should well know that every time there is a major overhaul to game mechanics/systems, there is a good chance that your playstyle will need to be adapted.

Now off-topic-ish

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

Nerevarine1138, i disagree with a fair amount of what you say. I hold my tongue and keep moving because they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. But i have to speak at the small bold bit of the post of yours i quoted...i agree with you 100%. I drives me up the wall when characters a referred to as toons.

Agree with the whole of that post actually, but double-down agree with the terminology bit.

What we are all trying to get at is they nerfed everything and expect us to make up the difference using cp gains....but it takes 4 to 5 hours to get single point...and that's just from grinding exp. They need to adjust the amount of time it takes to earn a point

I don't doubt that there will be adjustments to CP acquisition in time as the new system is fine-tuned. But what i see being lost on you joe and some others is that the whole point is to have it take time to get to the top of the mountain-this is a MMO.

What VR ranks and now its successor CS are called by some are 'time-sinks' and they have been a part of MMOs since the start. The very start. Folks got to the heights of the VR system in this game too fast in ZoS's view, seems that the 'powers that be' are seeking to remedy that.

This situation is not new, imo its just taken ZoS a bit too long to finally start approaching it properly.

It's not lost on us...1)we are saying that if your are going to throw away our progress and essentially make us do it again...making the system take 4 or 5 hours to level a single point is ridiculous and insulting to the people who already put in 1200 hours into the game. 2)This game will die if they put out the cp system like it is now. 3)Do you think the casual b2p folks are going to put in all that time. 4)They won't and ZOS will make it p2w and this game will wither and die. It's sad

Quickly, as its time for my run:

@1 - Your progress has not been thrown away. It has been equated to what ZoS sees as an equal amount of CP and transferred to the new system.

Any Veteran Rank character that logs in after the system goes live will get 5 Champion Points added to the account for each full Veteran Rank that character has achieved.
Partial credit will be given for XP earned within a Veteran Rank. This is based on a fraction of the total XP contained within the level. One Veteran Rank is currently 1,000,000XP, so the conversion system will grant you one Champion Point for every 200,000XP within a Veteran Rank.
For example, if you are Veteran Rank 12 and have 800,000XP progress towards Veteran Rank 13, you will receive 59 Champion Points after the system goes live.
EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: Only the conversion system will use 200,000XP for one Champion Point the day the system goes live in Update 6. This is not what it will take to earn a Champion Point while playing normally once the Champion System is live.
It is possible that a Veteran Rank 1 character may not have earned 200,000XP into Veteran Rank 1. In this case, you will not receive a Champion Point after the system goes live.
Champion Points are shared across all characters as the system is account wide, but for the conversion of XP to Champion Points, no more than 70 Champion Points will be given to an account.
A VR14 character can receive up to 70 Champion Points depending on how much XP into VR14 they are, but 70 is the maximum the conversion system will give out for the account.
If you have multiple Veteran Rank characters, you will receive credit for each Veteran Rank upon logging into each character (provided the account has not reached 70 Champion Points given out in the conversion).
Only currently existing characters created before Update 6 goes live are eligible to claim points from the conversion pool. Once they are claimed, they will move into an account-wide Champion pool that all characters can use. You must have at least one Veteran Rank character in order to receive Champion Points from this conversion pool to your account.
The 70 Champion Points from the conversion pool will never get more points added to it - only subtracted. If there’s a situation where you don’t use up all 70 points once the system is live, they will never be used since this only applies to characters you have preceding Update 6.

Check bold bits. If anything, looks like you have the oportunity to build your character into a bigger, badder, SoB.

@2 - Game could die if they don't. I have several guilds with 3/100+ ppl in them pretty much 24/7 because people HATED the VR system and quit. But i doubt it will die too quickly because as much as i hate it, the fact is console launch will bring in enough bodies to keep the lights on a bit longer.

@3 - Casual folks by definition don't put in the same amount of time 'hardcore' players do. If they didn't quit when staring 14 lvls of VR content in the face, doubt they will now.

@4 - You know the future as well as i, which to say not at all. ZoS could have another radical policy change next week and go full-hog P2w selling CP 1 for $1-neither of us can say.

Anyways, i'm off.

Joejudas

hmmmmmm

Sharkano

Using all the cp points they gave you does not get you close to where you were as a long-playing VR14 in current live. They did not have to push us backwards to reboot the game, and in fact it is contrary to that they told us. Doing so is unnecessary, and hopefully is fixed before it goes live (but I am not holding my breath).

Arki

So they made the game harder before influx of new player on console? If this is true I salute the devs, because I allways like a challenge. It's a bold move but a great one imo. Maybe we even need to to cc and do some real work now, and AoEing the crap out of everything stops being a viable strategy. I for one would welcome that...

Teiji

They already said they added an extra zero to all numbers because it's easier for stuff'n'things. That said, my 5/5 Hawk's Eye and 5/5 Hunding's will be ready just in time for when stamina is the new magicka.

As it stands though, with the changes to passives across the board, it looks like you're going to need 100, maybe 300 champion points to be at the current level of your character on live. Probably a slight exaggeration but 1.6 feels fun, I dislike the heavy attack with one-handed maces though, it makes me feel like a potato on a roller coaster. The champion system is definitely a leap in the right direction, our initial power level with zero champion points however, is painful.

Remember old Gutripper? How easy it was to see why they had that name, yeah? Everything is like that. It's about time though, I'm tired of seeing people that went from VR1 to VR14 in Craglorn without any knowledge on dodge-rolling, blocking, interrupting abilities and without an understanding of not standing in the fire.

TequilaFire

I have been playing on PTS and as to being able to take down mobs and doing quests I have been having no trouble after adjusting my "character".

What is troubling is it does take way too long to generate a CP as it is on PTS right now, I can actually do a VR level at the same rate.

If this goes live many of you will change your tune.

nerevarine1138

Joejudas wrote: »

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

So essentially what i am taking away from the OP and elsewhere i've heard the same sentiment is that the CS is taking all VR lvl'd charcters down to pretty much a base freshly made lvl 50. Then you get 70 CP(max for VR14 folks) to distribute straight away to start retuning.

Coming from a long time FFXI guy, this sounds a lot like ZoS is actually trying to roll out their own version of the Merit system from the aforementioned game. And personally i think this is a good thing. Going further, ZoS should have rolled this system out much sooner imo.

Sure it is gonna take more time to 'max out' a character now. But that should really not be an issue when content is gonna scale. And really what is the rush to anyways?

@ the other prevalent sentiment that i see coupled with the main one from the OP(paraphrased-'All my work on my build has been flushed!!!'), please tell me that this isn't your first MMO. Because unless it is, you should well know that every time there is a major overhaul to game mechanics/systems, there is a good chance that your playstyle will need to be adapted.

Now off-topic-ish

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

Nerevarine1138, i disagree with a fair amount of what you say. I hold my tongue and keep moving because they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. But i have to speak at the small bold bit of the post of yours i quoted...i agree with you 100%. I drives me up the wall when characters a referred to as toons.

Agree with the whole of that post actually, but double-down agree with the terminology bit.

What we are all trying to get at is they nerfed everything and expect us to make up the difference using cp gains....but it takes 4 to 5 hours to get single point...and that's just from grinding exp. They need to adjust the amount of time it takes to earn a point

Who said they're expecting you to make up the difference? Is it at all possible that they want to take the game back in the direction of being somewhat challenging?

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

felinith66

It's a new system. I believe ZOS is still trying to figure how powerful we should be and what the standard power scaling should be. That's why they told us to play around with the champion system and provide them feedback. They're practically placing a new system on top of the older one. We're basically playing old game content using our new builds in the new system. It's not gonna be perfect the first time.

I believe we are weaker for a reason. They'll probably scale us up if their testing turns out alot of us are getting massacred out there.

Tankqull

Alphashado wrote: »

It kinda feels like they toned things down a bit in order to leave wiggle room for the CS.

When I first logged into the PTS and jumped on my DK I studied all the changes, filled out all my skill points, and went out to do some testing. I noticed right away that I was getting hit harder, taking more damage, doing less damage etc.

Then it occurred to me that I hadn't spent any of my CPs yet. Once I invested 70 CPs, there was a very noticable difference.

This is just a guess, but it feels like they toned things down in anticipation of characters eventually having a ton of CP and wanting them to be where they are right now on the live version rather than being just as powerful when 1.6 goes live and then godlike when we reach full CPs.

like this:
Character Power level on the live version:
....................................
Time Investment needed:
.....................
Character Power level on 1.6 with minimal CPs invested:
........................
Time Investment needed:
.....................
Character Power level in the future with a bunch of CPs invested:
..........................................
Time Investment needed:
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Just a theory, but it makes sense.

extended it by a rough estimation of needed time investment...

xtago

Ha ha. Did you do a Vr14 template and set some skills then ran of to some vr11 mobs and get owned.

Lol you need to apply the champ points to get the extra stats now.

Whatever you did in version 1 to 1.5.8 for skills means nothing now.

You have to alter how you apply skills and work out how best to make champ points work for what you want to do now.

Champ points offer extra damage or protection etc now if you don't use them then you will get owned simple as that.

I've been in the same boat myself.

xtago

Joejudas wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

because we spent hundreds of hours completing end game pve runs that had gear as rewards with 8 percent crit on them and they nerfed them to 2 percent...because we cant has nice things and end game pve people dont matter

So apply some champ points to crit skills.

Valencer

Tankqull wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

It kinda feels like they toned things down a bit in order to leave wiggle room for the CS.

When I first logged into the PTS and jumped on my DK I studied all the changes, filled out all my skill points, and went out to do some testing. I noticed right away that I was getting hit harder, taking more damage, doing less damage etc.

Then it occurred to me that I hadn't spent any of my CPs yet. Once I invested 70 CPs, there was a very noticable difference.

This is just a guess, but it feels like they toned things down in anticipation of characters eventually having a ton of CP and wanting them to be where they are right now on the live version rather than being just as powerful when 1.6 goes live and then godlike when we reach full CPs.

like this:
Character Power level on the live version:
....................................
Time Investment needed:
.....................
Character Power level on 1.6 with minimal CPs invested:
........................
Time Investment needed:
.....................
Character Power level in the future with a bunch of CPs invested:
..........................................
Time Investment needed:
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Just a theory, but it makes sense.

extended it by a rough estimation of needed time investment...

Ignoring the fact that the champion system is built on diminishing returns.

I really doubt theyre going to make content where a 2% difference in magicka costs or 5% difference in elemental damage taken will make all the difference in the world.

Xexpo

Give us about 125 CP instead of 70. That should do the trick.

Wolfenbelle

Joejudas wrote: »

If " enjoying " the game means grinding cp points then I guess I won't be enjoying it. This is a company that badly mismanaged the game for the first 10 months....then puts a system in place that takes 2 years to progress in and tells everyone " hey we threw away all the progress you paid us money to achieve, but we got a new system that takes years to complete so spend money in our cash shop and also just trust us ". Its outrageous

^This. Word. Unless ZOS changes their direction, they are in the process of knocking everything tied to the veteran rank system back to level 50. The new across-the-board recalibration of stats, abilities, buffs, debuffs, gear, NPCs, etc., is the first step in that process.

The recalibration of the game's numbering scheme is the one thing I most dislike about 1.6. It won't be a problem for people who buy the game for the first time when it's released to console. But for many of us who have played this thing since pre-launch or beta, it's going to be a difficult adjustment. Some people are just simply not going to want to bother.

joshisanonymous

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

Nerevarine1138 wrote:

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

Nerevarine1138, i disagree with a fair amount of what you say. I hold my tongue and keep moving because they are your opinions and you are entitled to them. But i have to speak at the small bold bit of the post of yours i quoted...i agree with you 100%. It drives me up the wall when characters are referred to as toons.

Agree with the whole of that post actually, but double-down agree with the terminology bit.

I much prefer the term "toon" myself. It has sentimental value for those of us who remember playing MMOs around 2000. Don't be a hater.

Solanum wrote: »

I've tried to play a stamina based fullplate warrior since beta.

I'm glad there are finally options in the game outside of wearing a dress in combination with a staff/sword and board blockfest.

Some people understand the game mechanics better then others, they came up with killer builds based upon high magicka and ultimate regeneration while keeping survivability with their stamina pool and not needing to invest in this. And I respect this, they make the best of their character with the tools given.

But we're far beyond that point, copying the cookie cutter builds is not a display of skill and knowhow. And it's long overdue that things got balanced a bit.

I agree. I'm glad your desired playstyle will now be more viable. I've been playing with builds that utilize full medium armor for the most part since before launch and I don't mind at all if light armor magicka based builds are no longer the same.

Honestly, I don't see how it's even fun once someone has figured out that perfect DPS machine build, especially when they're a PvE player. What is the point of repeatedly running the same trials with the same exact build that you literally have no way to improve upon? Sounds boring. For PvP, maybe I could see it, because that's a dynamic environment so playing with your build isn't necessarily where the excitement comes from, but for PvE it's weird.

Also, in direct response to the OP: Why do you keep saying that you have to go through the Champion System simply to get back to exactly where you are now? Have you not noticed that customization options, from the buff system, to various skills, to the addition of the whole Champion System, has drastically changed? For instance, the dude above talking about his stamina based heavy armor toon: if someone wants to build a tank now, they can really build a tank. The customization available, particularly through CPs, will allow us to specialize to a much much greater degree as far as I can tell.

So no, when you finish grinding every last CP (because apparently you need to cap everything before you can start enjoying yourself), you won't be right back where you are now, you'll be something completely new and different that maybe you can say is similar in power vs mobs as where you are now but much more specialized.

Alphashado

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

If " enjoying " the game means grinding cp points then I guess I won't be enjoying it. This is a company that badly mismanaged the game for the first 10 months....then puts a system in place that takes 2 years to progress in and tells everyone " hey we threw away all the progress you paid us money to achieve, but we got a new system that takes years to complete so spend money in our cash shop and also just trust us ". Its outrageous

^This. Word. Unless ZOS changes their direction, they are in the process of knocking everything tied to the veteran rank system back to level 50.

I'm not convinced they still intend to do that anytime soon. They haven't mentioned a single word about it in months. Every time the issue is raised it's met with silence....

My personal opinion and the opinion of the vast majority of this community is to just do it and be done with it.

It's the NOT KNOWING that's maddening. Trying to plan ahead in this game is like trying to get to Mexico using a map of Canada. It's incredibly frustrating.

Humanistic

As far as I've seen, the game is far better in 1.6. The combat is a lot smoother, and I am decimating every single thing I come across. It feels like the way it should have been a long time ago - and I think a lot of veteran gamers have responded well to it.

My only beef is not having things to do when the Champion System hits - right now there is a limited amount of quests to do at the end game. That's the big issue, and from what I've heard, Trials and other dungeons and such aren't providing very much CPXP.

timidobserver

People are are used to power grinding to the cap are just struggling with the fact that it won't be possible or necessary in the champion system. No time soon will you be able to do"LFM AA 300 Champion Points required." Nor would you need to since AA is perfectly doable with 70 Champion Points ATM on the PTS.

All of that said, the time to earn a Champion Point does need to be tweaked. They said that they intend for it to take roughly an hour, and currently it takes about 4 times that grinding efficiently and 6 hours when not grinding efficiently.

Vahrokh

prototypefb wrote: »

all they did were reduced health scaling and adjusted handful of OP skills.
now stamina is on par with magicka(more or less), all armors seem to be viable, all weapons are viable, all classes look like could use any weapon/build/stat and be in just about same position.
can you name 1 OP class atm? there isn't one i believe, time/testing will tell, clases are really close now.

I can name one that went down to the sink hole.

Murmeltier

Hm, there are many Changes in the 1.6. I am curious how they work together at the Start of the Update. I think we will have a long Testing-Time for the Update, and wonder if we will see it sooner than 17.3.15?

Bouvin

A lot of long time players have states they won't be paying the sub after 1.6 and aren't sure they'll even be playing.

1.6 has some good updates, but overall the nerfs have really made a mess of the game.

I think their cash flow is going to be drastically reduced post 1.6...bad decision on ZOS part to make all of these changes. This game is just going to turn into another ghost town F2P game.

Emma_Overload

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The nerf is real, y'all... toons that used to have 60% crit have like 40% and that's HUGE. And I only earn about 1 CS point per day on PTS...

I'm one of those characters (stop saying "toons"), and I support that change. Why on earth would anyone think that 60% critical chance represents a balanced game? That's insane.

First of all, crit in ESO is not just lucky bonus damage: several key mechanics in the game only proc on a crit... sorcerers' surge heals, for example. When the devs "tweak" the availability of crit, they're not just re-balancing the damage stats, they're screwing up the viability of carefully theory-crafted builds and even whole classes!

Secondly, 60% crit is just barely enough. It's a significant number because it's the point at which 2 consecutive actions are likely to produce the desired secondary effect (e.g. a surge heal) at least once around 85% of the time. Having at least one crit during every 2 second combat tick is enough to keep you alive, so 85% success every 2 seconds feels close enough. Needless to say, more crit feels even better!

Finally, your comment about balance is just silly in a game where players only have a few thousand HP, but boss monsters have millions. Please.

Vahrokh

Spiritreaver_ESO wrote: »

What VR ranks and now its successor CS are called by some are 'time-sinks' and they have been a part of MMOs since the start. The very start. Folks got to the heights of the VR system in this game too fast in ZoS's view, seems that the 'powers that be' are seeking to remedy that.

This situation is not new, imo its just taken ZoS a bit too long to finally start approaching it properly.

No other game "time sinks" included putting you back several months, it feels like being this:




Furthermore, I have never played a game where new real content just stops being added and you are left with nothing to do for months or years.

All we got are 3 instances, with super trivial encounters that don't require off-tanking or any evolved tactics (Mantikora being the only encounter worth playing) and that are meant to be done on a timer. Once again, the feeling (do the same quicker and quicker) is exactly the one shown on the picture above.

Bouvin

Vahrokh wrote: »

No other game "time sinks" included putting you back several months, it feels like being this:

Except before giving him the wheel they destroyed the nest he had been working on and broke two of his legs.

That would be a bit closer to how 1.6 feels.