Sorc 1.6 Discussion

Digiman

Nightreaver wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Is there any point to critical surge now over power surge? Yes you get a little more healing if you're a stamina build but power surge also boosts your class abilities and it lasts longer so why would you not take it?

I don't have a Stamina build so maybe someone with one can answer that. Are there any Class Magicka damage abilities that are that much better for someone with a Stamina build to make it worth giving up a 50% increase in healing?

And now that both versions of Surge have Healing as a secondary effect I have a couple more questions based on what was posted in the 1.6 Patch notes

Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Caltrops, will only snare the 6 targets who take full damage.

1) Does this mean that the healing would only be effected by the first 6 targets?

2) And if that is the case then is there any reason to keep the CD on the effect?

1) I think its just one heal off of the 1 tick off from the first damage that triggers a critical hit and that will trigger the CD

2) No, as others have said sorcerers need a method of quick healing as well as mobility because if we stop we die, Dark exchanges mobility is basically walking speed. Any crit will trigger the CD for Surge no matter how small the damage and because of that it cripples our healing into becoming an RNG factor.

Really the best way to maximize the heals from crit on Surge is to stick to direct damage spells and abilities that don't have lingering dots.

I think ZoS is doing this because they are afraid that all sorcerer will do is drop AoE damage effects which will promote further lag if they are tacked on with a heal calculation from surge when against groups of players.

Honestly they should just make it 15% damage to heal. Eitherway testing this out I have found that adding a CD no matter minute basically ruins it, and sorcerers will begin complaining when they point to runs with other classes being able to survive against a pack of mobs while they have to work even harder to struggle and stay alive with there or be forced into using other skill lines to keep up.

If any Developers are reading this, the CD is never the answer. All your doing is forcing sorcerers into shield stacking with pets.

Digiman

XEVENEX wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Is there any point to critical surge now over power surge? Yes you get a little more healing if you're a stamina build but power surge also boosts your class abilities and it lasts longer so why would you not take it?

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

The problem with entropy is that you need targets to get a good sustained DPS going. With Surge its a buff that should increase damage but the healing from damage made it more relevant when sorcerers were looking for a class skill to help them survive.

Snit

Digiman wrote: »

The problem with entropy is that you need targets to get a good sustained DPS going.

True, but how often do you need the Major Sorcery buff without a target available? I also doubt that either morph of Surge will make it on my bars. Entropy is just better now.

Septimus_Magna

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick? I have morphed it to structured entropy because the 15% chance to heal of a weapon attacks doesnt see worth it. Also because I think it doesnt proc of shields so its useless in pvp.

Snit

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick?

Structured. I'm 7/7 Light Armor, so I need the boost to max health. I've never been impressed with either morph as a source of heals.

XEVENEX

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick? I have morphed it to structured entropy because the 15% chance to heal of a weapon attacks doesnt see worth it. Also because I think it doesnt proc of shields so its useless in pvp.

Good point. It seems sructured would be better for pvp.

Nightreaver

Digiman wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

1) Does this mean that the healing would only be effected by the first 6 targets?

1) I think its just one heal off of the 1 tick off from the first damage that triggers a critical hit and that will trigger the CD
I think ZoS is doing this because they are afraid that all sorcerer will do is drop AoE damage effects which will promote further lag if they are tacked on with a heal calculation from surge when against groups of players.

Yes, I understand that but it wasn't what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear. The question was in regard to the concern that you and many others have raised. That with no AOE cap the caster could get dozens of heals from a single AOE. My point is that if the heal from Surge is considered a secondary effect and secondary effects only affect the first 6 targets then the concern with getting heals from more than 6 targets has been solved and should no longer exist.

Digiman wrote: »

Really the best way to maximize the heals from crit on Surge is to stick to direct damage spells and abilities that don't have lingering dots.

Keep in mind that even our best ST direct damage (Shock) is affected by this as well as only one of the three attacks this ability produces can proc the heal essentially reducing the heal to one third of what it should be.

Gyudan

XEVENEX wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Is there any point to critical surge now over power surge? Yes you get a little more healing if you're a stamina build but power surge also boosts your class abilities and it lasts longer so why would you not take it?

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

I think that both morphs of entropy are too strong now. @ZOS basically put the Major Sorcery buff on top of their existing effects, which makes those skills a must-have for magicka DPS of all classes. For sorcerers, it's definitely better than surge for single target DPS.
Suggestion: Give Entropy a Minor Sorcery buff instead of Major.

Digiman

Nightreaver wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

1) Does this mean that the healing would only be effected by the first 6 targets?

1) I think its just one heal off of the 1 tick off from the first damage that triggers a critical hit and that will trigger the CD
I think ZoS is doing this because they are afraid that all sorcerer will do is drop AoE damage effects which will promote further lag if they are tacked on with a heal calculation from surge when against groups of players.

Yes, I understand that but it wasn't what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear. The question was in regard to the concern that you and many others have raised. That with no AOE cap the caster could get dozens of heals from a single AOE. My point is that if the heal from Surge is considered a secondary effect and secondary effects only affect the first 6 targets then the concern with getting heals from more than 6 targets has been solved and should no longer exist.

Digiman wrote: »

Really the best way to maximize the heals from crit on Surge is to stick to direct damage spells and abilities that don't have lingering dots.

Keep in mind that even our best ST direct damage (Shock) is affected by this as well as only one of the three attacks this ability produces can proc the heal essentially reducing the heal to one third of what it should be.

Shock is a destruction staff ability not a sorcerer skill one. But your right, with the area of effect cap I think they removed it, though I could be wrong.

Eitherway its the first tick that crits that counts in a AoE and the one closest to the middle if two of the highest crits are the same.

Snit wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

The problem with entropy is that you need targets to get a good sustained DPS going.

True, but how often do you need the Major Sorcery buff without a target available? I also doubt that either morph of Surge will make it on my bars. Entropy is just better now.

Sneak attack, surge doesn't break stealth and before the CD worked well against groups as a method to gain health without taking you out of the fight.

But your right Entropy is a better combination against a single target, however remember most players are sporting cleanse, so essentially your giving them a reason to get 8% max health.

Holycannoli

XEVENEX wrote: »

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

I don't know, I can maybe see Degeneration over Structured Entropy if it procced off Overload and worked vs shields.

Do weapon skills count as weapon attacks? That might also make it more desirable. It's still only a 15% chance though.

Digiman

Holycannoli wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

I don't know, I can maybe see Degeneration over Structured Entropy if it procced off Overload and worked vs shields.

Do weapon skills count as weapon attacks? That might also make it more desirable. It's still only a 15% chance though.

You would tend to use degeneration if you were a melee weapon based player, like Duel Wield and such. It triggers off of Destruction staff but the charge up and reward for the attack aren't really worth it.

No, skills don't count as weapon attacks. I think overload does trigger it, can't remember and with shields you wouldn't be doing damage to the person so it wouldn't count I guess, but I could be wrong with that.

Basically:

Structered Entropy if your a ranged based cloth caster

Degeneration if your a melee wielding DPS.

Holycannoli

And what if you're a bow user? I haven't experimented much with Degeneration.

I really don't want to give up my bow in PvP in 1.6 even though it seems like stamina builds will be at a serious disadvantage, and I'm not sure I'd be using Entropy in PvP anyway.

pmn100b16_ESO

Snit wrote: »

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Stamina Sorc does not really work in PVP. You NEED to have damage shields in PVP and both hardened ward and annulment:harness magicka scale off magicka. The only way to make stamina sorcs work is to go hybrid and spread evenly between magicka and stamina, while wearing top quality gear such as arena and warlock and having 150+ champion points. Anything less than this, hybrid build wont work, and stam build will die too easily due to no reliable shield and weak shields due to low magicka.

Yeah, it would be a lot better for stamina builds (or hybrids) if shields scaled off health. Your build would get better. For classic caster sorcs, it would be a disaster.

I do wish ZOS would support hybrid builds better. With the removal of the soft-caps, that niche seems pretty narrow. More build variety is better for everyone. But I wouldn't want to see them support hybrid builds (or stamina builds) by more nerfs to magicka users.

Yep exactly. Soft cap removal has destroyed hybrid builds. They were reasonably competitive in 1.5 and some nice builds were starting to develop. In 1.6 with no soft caps, you have to go full magicka or full stamina to be competitive. Anything in between gets destroyed.

Exstazik

1)Suggestion: Give Entropy a Minor Sorcery buff instead of Major.
2)Suggestion: Give Surge a Minor Berserk buff and remove CD

ArcanusMagus

XEVENEX wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick? I have morphed it to structured entropy because the 15% chance to heal of a weapon attacks doesnt see worth it. Also because I think it doesnt proc of shields so its useless in pvp.

Good point. It seems sructured would be better for pvp.

Until you weapon swap.

XEVENEX

ArcanusMagus wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick? I have morphed it to structured entropy because the 15% chance to heal of a weapon attacks doesnt see worth it. Also because I think it doesnt proc of shields so its useless in pvp.

Good point. It seems sructured would be better for pvp.

Until you weapon swap.

Also good point. I swap all the time so structured is not an option.

Merlin13KAGL

Erock25 wrote: »

evan.pardoub17_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

evan.pardoub17_ESO wrote: »

I do have a question--you say pets won't taunt at all in groups. Is this true if you have a taunt equipped.

Pets won't taunt unless the sorc is the only player on the monster's hate list. It's in the 1.6 patch notes.

So--does a taunt (as used by a tank) cause the tank to be the only player on the hate list? OR, does the taunt put the player at the top of the list? Pretty specific and I've found no mention online. Thanks for clarifying this!

A taunt puts you at the top of the list. Therefore, your pets should never get aggro in group situations. In their current form, there's no reason for any pretty besides greater atronach to get aggro anyways as they are easily one shot in group content.

This. It basically means that your pet will never steal taunt from the tank (effectively defeating the purpose of the tank's taunt.)

Nightreaver wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Is there any point to critical surge now over power surge? Yes you get a little more healing if you're a stamina build but power surge also boosts your class abilities and it lasts longer so why would you not take it?

I don't have a Stamina build so maybe someone with one can answer that. Are there any Class Magicka damage abilities that are that much better for someone with a Stamina build to make it worth giving up a 50% increase in healing?

And now that both versions of Surge have Healing as a secondary effect I have a couple more questions based on what was posted in the 1.6 Patch notes

Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Caltrops, will only snare the 6 targets who take full damage.

1) Does this mean that the healing would only be effected by the first 6 targets?

2) And if that is the case then is there any reason to keep the CD on the effect?

@Nightreaver , @Holycannoli‌ , not in its present form, no. 10% more healing while losing Spell Damage makes no sense.

A better version or Surge would be Minor Wep Dmg / Minor Spell Dmg on base, morphing to Major Wep Dmg or Major Spell Dmg. 40% heals across the board.

The healing is unaffected by # of targets, only by the cooldown, since the healing effect is on you, not the target. You are thinking in terms of "Absorb Health" which is not directly what Surge does.

Potentially, your healing could go down with more targets if you are using DoT's. More DoT's lingering vs primary attacks, greater chance that one of those will give you the resulting (smaller) heal.

The cooldown is an attempt to moderate the heal rate, essentially. If you turn down the percentage, it ceases to be as useful in 1vX situations. Adjust the cooldown and you limit the frequency of the heals without lessening the burst effect of the heals. This is to help regulate it to be useful in 1vAny fights.

Snit wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick?

Structured. I'm 7/7 Light Armor, so I need the boost to max health. I've never been impressed with either morph as a source of heals.

The easy deciding factor for this is as follows:

1. Figure how much 5% of your Health is.
2. Figure out how many weapon attacks you would have to do (bearing in mind you have about a 1 in 7 chance of getting healed by the attack) at your current weapon damage to match the number in Step 1. Now how long does it take you to make that many (of any kind of weapon attack.)
3. Based on this, bear in mind that 5% added to max only helps you when you are at full health. How many hits do you have to take to have that 5% cease to be there?
4. I'll take 15% chance to always recover that, even if I don't currently need it, vs +5% one time use. (Degen for me, all day long.)

Holycannoli wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

I don't know, I can maybe see Degeneration over Structured Entropy if it procced off Overload and worked vs shields.

Do weapon skills count as weapon attacks? That might also make it more desirable. It's still only a 15% chance though.

@Holycannoli‌ , weapon skills absolutely count as weapon attacks. The only exception to that is if the tooltip specifically requires a Light or Heavy attack (Such as Tri Focus passive in Destro).

For determination which morph works best for you, factor in your overall health and use the items listed above. +5% if you're sitting at 30k hp is pretty significant, 1 in 7 chance of damage causing heals is priceless.

(Again +5% is one shot deal on top end - think of it as the anti-Pulsar, Weapon Skills are not always possible if you're out of resources, but Light and Heavy attacks always are.

Heal + Dmg + time to regen for (essentially) zero resource cost. Easy call for me.

XEVENEX

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

evan.pardoub17_ESO wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

evan.pardoub17_ESO wrote: »

I do have a question--you say pets won't taunt at all in groups. Is this true if you have a taunt equipped.

Pets won't taunt unless the sorc is the only player on the monster's hate list. It's in the 1.6 patch notes.

So--does a taunt (as used by a tank) cause the tank to be the only player on the hate list? OR, does the taunt put the player at the top of the list? Pretty specific and I've found no mention online. Thanks for clarifying this!

A taunt puts you at the top of the list. Therefore, your pets should never get aggro in group situations. In their current form, there's no reason for any pretty besides greater atronach to get aggro anyways as they are easily one shot in group content.

This. It basically means that your pet will never steal taunt from the tank (effectively defeating the purpose of the tank's taunt.)

Nightreaver wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Is there any point to critical surge now over power surge? Yes you get a little more healing if you're a stamina build but power surge also boosts your class abilities and it lasts longer so why would you not take it?

I don't have a Stamina build so maybe someone with one can answer that. Are there any Class Magicka damage abilities that are that much better for someone with a Stamina build to make it worth giving up a 50% increase in healing?

And now that both versions of Surge have Healing as a secondary effect I have a couple more questions based on what was posted in the 1.6 Patch notes

Abilities that apply a secondary effect, such as Caltrops, will only snare the 6 targets who take full damage.

1) Does this mean that the healing would only be effected by the first 6 targets?

2) And if that is the case then is there any reason to keep the CD on the effect?

@Nightreaver , @Holycannoli‌ , not in its present form, no. 10% more healing while losing Spell Damage makes no sense.

A better version or Surge would be Minor Wep Dmg / Minor Spell Dmg on base, morphing to Major Wep Dmg or Major Spell Dmg. 40% heals across the board.

The healing is unaffected by # of targets, only by the cooldown, since the healing effect is on you, not the target. You are thinking in terms of "Absorb Health" which is not directly what Surge does.

Potentially, your healing could go down with more targets if you are using DoT's. More DoT's lingering vs primary attacks, greater chance that one of those will give you the resulting (smaller) heal.

The cooldown is an attempt to moderate the heal rate, essentially. If you turn down the percentage, it ceases to be as useful in 1vX situations. Adjust the cooldown and you limit the frequency of the heals without lessening the burst effect of the heals. This is to help regulate it to be useful in 1vAny fights.

Snit wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@Snit‌ which morph of Entropy did you pick?

Structured. I'm 7/7 Light Armor, so I need the boost to max health. I've never been impressed with either morph as a source of heals.

The easy deciding factor for this is as follows:

1. Figure how much 5% of your Health is.
2. Figure out how many weapon attacks you would have to do (bearing in mind you have about a 1 in 7 chance of getting healed by the attack) at your current weapon damage to match the number in Step 1. Now how long does it take you to make that many (of any kind of weapon attack.)
3. Based on this, bear in mind that 5% added to max only helps you when you are at full health. How many hits do you have to take to have that 5% cease to be there?
4. I'll take 15% chance to always recover that, even if I don't currently need it, vs +5% one time use. (Degen for me, all day long.)

Holycannoli wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

I don't know, I can maybe see Degeneration over Structured Entropy if it procced off Overload and worked vs shields.

Do weapon skills count as weapon attacks? That might also make it more desirable. It's still only a 15% chance though.

@Holycannoli‌ , weapon skills absolutely count as weapon attacks. The only exception to that is if the tooltip specifically requires a Light or Heavy attack (Such as Tri Focus passive in Destro).

For determination which morph works best for you, factor in your overall health and use the items listed above. +5% if you're sitting at 30k hp is pretty significant, 1 in 7 chance of damage causing heals is priceless.

(Again +5% is one shot deal on top end - think of it as the anti-Pulsar, Weapon Skills are not always possible if you're out of resources, but Light and Heavy attacks always are.

Heal + Dmg + time to regen for (essentially) zero resource cost. Easy call for me.

I agree with everything except the anti pulsar part which implies pvp, which in turn implies frequent weapon swaping, in which case you lose that 5% and have to regen it every time.

Degeneration is the clear winner IMO.

Septimus_Magna

Holycannoli wrote: »

And what if you're a bow user? I haven't experimented much with Degeneration.

I really don't want to give up my bow in PvP in 1.6 even though it seems like stamina builds will be at a serious disadvantage, and I'm not sure I'd be using Entropy in PvP anyway.

You dont really need spell power when you're using a bow so I would suggest Expert Hunter for extra weapon crit and pick the morph that best fitst your playstyle. Usually Evil Hunter is a solid choice because it can restore stamina.

cozmon3c_ESO

Maybe they should just turn surge into an ability like rally, the longer you have the buff on you the more it heals you when you reapply it. You know, for the magicka users to have something similar. I would use surge then. it solves the case of sorc not having a nice heal and is not over powered spamable.

Holycannoli

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

You dont really need spell power when you're using a bow so I would suggest Expert Hunter for extra weapon crit and pick the morph that best fitst your playstyle. Usually Evil Hunter is a solid choice because it can restore stamina.

Yeah there's my problem. I still need spell power. I use destro staff for PvE and bow for PvP, all my attribute points are in health and I get my magicka from a light armor set for PvE and stamina from a medium set for PvP.

That's not gonna work anymore and I have to figure out what I want to do. I've been using that combo since beta. It's never been the min/max best but I enjoy it and it's always been passable. Now I'm hearing bows have lost DPS in 1.6 and shields based off magicka are really powerful (so they'll probably be nerfed before going live) and sorcerers are good at increasing max magicka so just dump all points in magicka and use sheilds in place of health. But the loss of lethal arrow, venom arrow and magnum shot in favor of magicka skills in PvP will throw me off. I can go the destro/resto route but in PvP it's alien to me.

Snit

Holycannoli wrote: »

Yeah there's my problem. I still need spell power. I use destro staff for PvE and bow for PvP

Sadly, as you acknowledge, your build is screwed. Hybrids are going to fall way behind in 1.6. This is not a good development.

One partial solution: Make Conjured Ward scale off the higher of magicka or stamina. That would at least help stam-heavy builds that use magicka only for utility/ buffs.

But builds like yours that use both magicka- and stamina-based damaging skills? Those builds may not be salvageable in a game with no soft caps on stats.

ToRelax

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

The real question is, why does anyone think either is a good choice (besides stamina builds)? They should be using Degeneration as it does everything that surge does better, with damage and mages guild passives on top.

I don't know, I can maybe see Degeneration over Structured Entropy if it procced off Overload and worked vs shields.

Do weapon skills count as weapon attacks? That might also make it more desirable. It's still only a 15% chance though.

@Holycannoli‌ , weapon skills absolutely count as weapon attacks. The only exception to that is if the tooltip specifically requires a Light or Heavy attack (Such as Tri Focus passive in Destro).

For determination which morph works best for you, factor in your overall health and use the items listed above. +5% if you're sitting at 30k hp is pretty significant, 1 in 7 chance of damage causing heals is priceless.

(Again +5% is one shot deal on top end - think of it as the anti-Pulsar, Weapon Skills are not always possible if you're out of resources, but Light and Heavy attacks always are.

Heal + Dmg + time to regen for (essentially) zero resource cost. Easy call for me.

Degeneration only procs on light and heavy attacks (including Overload) ...

I better don't even start about Flawless Dawnbraker .

Merlin13KAGL

XEVENEX wrote: »

I agree with everything except the anti pulsar part which implies pvp, which in turn implies frequent weapon swaping, in which case you lose that 5% and have to regen it every time.

Degeneration is the clear winner IMO.

@XEVENEX‌ , I just meant in the same sense that Pulsar is also kind of a one-shot-use skill (takes it off the top, then after that, there's no more benefit)

I wasn't terribly clear on that. (I am in no way implying that it's a counter for Pulsar, should anyone think that.)

Once that +5% is gone (or if you don't have it on both bars, as you indicate), the benefit is no more.

Only takes 1hp at the end of a fight to be the winner.

Doesn't matter if it's 1/20,000 or 1/50,0000.

Degen will always give you opportunity to get it back, regardless of where your resources currently stand.

Potenza

So Negate Magic no longer 'negates' any magic? - Nerfed - now another useless skill.

Septimus_Magna

@XEVENEX‌ and @Merlin13KAGL‌ Degeneration does not proc of shields so the 15% chance to heal will become 3% in pvp, maybe even less because most attacks will hit a damage shield. A 5% health bonus is very useful when my shield is bursted down to survive and give me more time to cast another shield. Structured entropy doesnt have to be on both bars because most of the time there is a shield up and the 5% health can regen underneath the shield without any problems. For pve Degeneration is probably better due to the fact that most mobs and bosses dont have shields.

Merlin13KAGL

@Septimus_Magna‌ , True, but think of is this way, if you aim high, and are sitting at 30k hp, that gives you at most 1500 more health.

That probably works out to be one hit of....anything. (while your shield is down, of course.)

Regarding the other guy, you're going to have to burn through his shields too, unless it's to end in a stalemate.

During those times, however rare they may be, you have a chance for an essentially free heal from weapon damage, and a guanteed heal (x3) from Degen landing on your unshielded opponent.

Edit: Also consider that if you don't have it on both bars, the moment you switch, you essentially damage yourself for 1500 hp. Granted, you'll regen back.

Kahrgan

The current state of surge in 1.6.1 is bad.

It definitely limits DW sorc users to always get very small heals and almost pigeon-holes you into using a 2h, or going to a magicka build.

A better solution would be to either revert the change, or give us another ability for our heal that rivals Green dragon blood.

Also: Sorcs should get a stamina regen ability, like every other class.

Also (#2): Why did negate get nerfed? Not worth using now

Holycannoli

Snit wrote: »

Sadly, as you acknowledge, your build is screwed. Hybrids are going to fall way behind in 1.6. This is not a good development.

One partial solution: Make Conjured Ward scale off the higher of magicka or stamina. That would at least help stam-heavy builds that use magicka only for utility/ buffs.

But builds like yours that use both magicka- and stamina-based damaging skills? Those builds may not be salvageable in a game with no soft caps on stats.

Yep and I don't know what to change my build to. The jury's still out on what's best for PvP and I don't expect shields to remain as they are. I didn't use magicka skills for damage in PvP and I also put 0 points in magicka and stamina, relying on enchants instead. Can't do that anymore in 1.6.

I also rerolled from breton to imperial for the stamina and health bonus because I used bows and health is always welcome. I'm screwed all around. I'm now a relic of the past with no way to make myself relevant to the present.

Snit

Holycannoli wrote: »

Yep and I don't know what to change my build to. The jury's still out on what's best for PvP and I don't expect shields to remain as they are. I didn't use magicka skills for damage in PvP and I also put 0 points in magicka and stamina, relying on enchants instead. Can't do that anymore in 1.6.

I also rerolled from breton to imperial for the stamina and health bonus because I used bows and health is always welcome. I'm screwed all around. I'm now a relic of the past with no way to make myself relevant to the present.

Check out Atropos' "Reaver" build over at Tamriel Foundry. It's a stamina-based DW/ Bow sorc, and it appears to remain pretty good in 1.6.