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Fixing Sorceres in 1.6
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There are 15 total abilities for each Class, that's 30 different morphs. Each Class is only getting 3 of 30 morphs as a Stamina option, that is no way "many". Add the other Classes and that's 12 out of 120 possible morphs, you can see why many doesn't remotely describe it correctly.That's 12 total (9 outside of Sorc). How is that not many?Edited by DeLindsay on December 20, 2014 9:04PM4 -
Nightreaver✭✭✭✭
Ahhh, so this "Buff" will give us superiority in the use of a weapon that most non-sorcerers would rather not use. I've seen many discussions comparing DPS superiority. In 15 years of playing MMOs I've never seen where there was greater concern over the DPS superiority of a specific weapon rather than actual DPS. I mean hey, we may be at the bottom of the DPS ladder but as long as we are the best at using Destro staves then it all balances out right? Now when can we get down to discussing what is really important? Who is the best at each weapon type?I'm sorry but this is just getting far too ridiculous. Stop the doom and gloom. We are gaining nothing in return for the loss? Really? Do you know any other class who has a buff that buffs them with spell damage? Right, there isn't. As it stands, with this change, we will still keep our superiority over other classes with the use of a destro staff, especially so with the removal of soft caps.
This isn't a comparison between Classes, it is a comparison between Stamina builds and Magicka builds.
Base ability
Stamina builds get a buff to weapon damage, Magicka builds gets nothing.
Morph 1
Stamina builds gets a Heal plus a buff to weapon damage, Magicka builds get a Heal plus nothing.
Morph 2
Stamina builds get a buff to class abilities plus a buff to weapon damage. Magicka builds get a buff to class abilities plus nothing.
All 3 favor Stamina builds
Or.... I could use pot just as often that heals for just as much and in addition restores both my Magicka and Stamina and not have to wait until I'm down to 30% health to use AND save myself 2 ability slots. And personally, when I'm down that far in health I prefer the pot that has the larger front loading direct heal. Please tell me you aren't seriously comparing the Healing output of the Twilight pet to Critical Surge.This brings me to the next point, if pets will actually become viable in damage terms and survivability, a sorc can then use the twilight matriarch with the health restoring morph. There you go, our heal.
And seeing as how they just nerfed pets, forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic about their intentions with pets.
You might consider taking your own advice because that simply isn't true.If any other class would get a spell that buffs them with spell power, people would cry that it's OP and that they'll be at the top DPS without a shred of doubt.
Listen to yourself..........
If Class "A" does 1500 DPS and Class "B" does 1000 DPS + 100 DPS due to a buff to spell power are you seriously going to claim that it is Class "B" that is OP because they get a buff that Class "A" didn't get?There are 15 total abilities for each Class, that's 30 different morphs. Each Class is only getting 3 of 30 morphs as a Stamina option, that is no way "many". Add the other Classes and that's 12 out of 120 possible morphs, you can see why many doesn't remotely describe it correctly.
Each character will have access to one class:Incorrect, they specifically said 3 abilities per Class will have Stamina based morphs.
3 abilities with 2 morphs each = 6/30 for class abilities
Each character will have access to 6 weapon types:
6 weapons, 4 Stamina based = 20/30 for weapon abilities
If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.5 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightreaver wrote: »
Ahhh, so this "Buff" will give us superiority in the use of a weapon that most non-sorcerers would rather not use. I've seen many discussions comparing DPS superiority. In 15 years of playing MMOs I've never seen where there was greater concern over the DPS superiority of a specific weapon rather than actual DPS. I mean hey, we may be at the bottom of the DPS ladder but as long as we are the best at using Destro staves then it all balances out right? Now when can we get down to discussing what is really important? Who is the best at each weapon type?I'm sorry but this is just getting far too ridiculous. Stop the doom and gloom. We are gaining nothing in return for the loss? Really? Do you know any other class who has a buff that buffs them with spell damage? Right, there isn't. As it stands, with this change, we will still keep our superiority over other classes with the use of a destro staff, especially so with the removal of soft caps.
A weapon most non-sorcerers would rather not use? So that's why literally every magicka build is using it? Because no one wants to use it?Nightreaver wrote: »Morph 2
Stamina builds get a buff to class abilities plus a buff to weapon damage. Magicka builds get a buff to class abilities plus nothing.
Yes, because every stamina build has the use of magicka damage dealing class skills integrated into it.
Wait...Nightreaver wrote: »
Or.... I could use pot just as often that heals for just as much and in addition restores both my Magicka and Stamina and not have to wait until I'm down to 30% health to use AND save myself 2 ability slots. And personally, when I'm down that far in health I prefer the pot that has the larger front loading direct heal. Please tell me you aren't seriously comparing the Healing output of the Twilight pet to Critical Surge.This brings me to the next point, if pets will actually become viable in damage terms and survivability, a sorc can then use the twilight matriarch with the health restoring morph. There you go, our heal.
And seeing as how they just nerfed pets, forgive me if I'm not overly optimistic about their intentions with pets.
No, I'm not saying that the twilight heals better than critical surge. But why do you even need the critical surge heal so badly? Everyone says sorcs have no self heal, but the twilight is a self heal. Sure it's nowhere near as good as critical surge. But in the end, if you're running trials or dungeons or whatever you won't need such a strong heal as critical surge. You have your healer for that.
And maybe they just nerfed pets (even if I'm not really sure what you mean with this one), but they said that in 1.6 pets will be able to crit and have AOE resistance upping their survival quite a lot. If pets can crit, that may even make them worth using for DPS.
The way I see it, the pets will just be a DoT that you will never have to recast.Nightreaver wrote: »
You might consider taking your own advice because that simply isn't true.If any other class would get a spell that buffs them with spell power, people would cry that it's OP and that they'll be at the top DPS without a shred of doubt.
Listen to yourself..........
If Class "A" does 1500 DPS and Class "B" does 1000 DPS + 100 DPS due to a buff to spell power are you seriously going to claim that it is Class "B" that is OP because they get a buff that Class "A" didn't get?
They're rebalancing skills, and if pets are going to be all they make out to be, it might make a serious big difference in DPS.
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Nightreaver✭✭✭✭
Yeah I know right? No idea why Magicka builds wouldn't rather use Dual wield, Two Hand, Sword & Board or Bow. Oh wait, those all use Stamina.A weapon most non-sorcerers would rather not use? So that's why literally every magicka build is using it? Because no one wants to use it?
Well they could certainly use a Resto staff. Wait, they removed the only reason to use a Resto staff for DPS.
Yeah, I have no idea why Magicka users would use a Desto staff rather than their bare hands.
The point is that (based on many of the posts I've read) I'm under the impression that if there was a different weapon that performed as well as a Staff then many non-Sorcerers would prefer it.
Shall we compare the number of class abilities that Stamina builds use to the number of Stamina abilities that a Staff wielding Magicka build uses?Yes, because every stamina build has the use of magicka damage dealing class skills integrated into it.
Wait...
I don't.....but it would be a far better choice than a weapon buff that is of no value to a Magicka build.No, I'm not saying that the twilight heals better than critical surge. But why do you even need the critical surge heal so badly
Critical heal, extended duration, I'm sure there are a number of options that would be preferred over weapon damage to Magicka builds that have no use for it.
Maybe. But my experience from MMOs has been that though pets can be real nice for soloing and even find a place in groups, in raids they tend to be more of a liability. But who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and I'm hoping this will be the case.They're rebalancing skills, and if pets are going to be all they make out to be, it might make a serious big difference in DPS.
My issue is that they took an ability that has pretty much been the center point of every Sorcerer build and made it an ability that favors Stamina builds when they could have just as easily designed it to be beneficial to both.
They could have changed the base ability to award Crit heal bonus which would have benefited both builds rather than making the base ability completely useless to Magicka builds. Then make one morph that favors Stamina build and one that favors Magicka.
If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.4 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"My issue is that they took an ability that has pretty much been the center point of every Sorcerer build and made it an ability that favors Stamina builds when they could have just as easily designed it to be beneficial to both."
Sums it up nicely.5 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭"My issue is that they took an ability that has pretty much been the center point of every Sorcerer build and made it an ability that favors Stamina builds when they could have just as easily designed it to be beneficial to both."
Sums it up nicely.
I'm still not quite sure how getting a major spell damage buff is not qualified as 'beneficial'? It will still be in the center of every sorcerer build. But builds will change, and people will adapt.6 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pets as they are now are useless I tried them again the other day.
They need to do more damage.
The clannfears tail swipe needs to be an aoe cone that has a chance to stun(not a stun all the time, a chance to stun) and do more damage. It also needs the knockdown charge attack the clannfears in game have, after all it us a clannfear, it should share the same move set. It would be no more powerful then shield charge.
The twilight needs more hp, and more damage.
Pets need to be strong, they each take 2 bar slots and 5% max magic, they need to be worth using. Yes pets should be some of the strongest creatures in the game, they cost a ton to use, a person gives up a lot to use them.
they should hit every bit as hard as player skills or they are useless bottom line, in pvp they should be a major threat capable of killing a player in 5-6 hits with the ability to stun, off balance, whatever. You can still kill the summoner.
Remember you can't stealth with them, there is tradeoffs, even if you boost them this way, they still have more disadvantages then any other skill in terms of cost and double bar slots to keep up with weapon switch and max mana penalty.
Oh zenimax give me Skyrims Dremora Lord with the same voice and huge flaming sword so the poor soul I'm gonna kill, the last thing he hears is " I smell weaknesses!" LolRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak5 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭ummmm?
Is this thread a troll?
It most certainly isn't widely known that sorcs are the worst in pvp.....
Pretty sure you are just doing it wrong
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GamerzElite✭✭✭
i agree. Pets can be potencially very good for pve
It'll be interesting to see just how much improved the DPS is with a pet build come 1.6 though. If even bad Sorcs can manage 1K DPS with a pet then the changes might be worth it.I can't believe they decided to highlight pets as our savior to DPS. Let's hope there's more to the ability changes than this.
still didnt fix any of the problems for pvp though and the options given about surge morphs as well are bad
But Pet + Skill eat your 2 Slots, as he said "We r bringing new deadric skill for pet"! 5-2=3
So you have only 3 slots to put skills.
** Correct me If I am wrong.Edited by GamerzElite on December 21, 2014 6:21AM2 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ummmm?
Is this thread a troll?
It most certainly isn't widely known that sorcs are the worst in pvp.....
Pretty sure you are just doing it wrong
Care to back up your forum warriorship with a duel? Or are you just flame baiting?
Get constructive or get out of the thread.Edited by NordJitsu on December 21, 2014 6:37AM5 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
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Incorrect, they specifically said 3 abilities per Class will have Stamina based morphs.Also, do not forget that many class abilities will now have a stamina version that scales on weapon power. With all of the abilities out there that buff weapon power, sorcerers are far from unique in the way that you suggest.
That is incorrect
When they go over abilities, they're adding a 3rd Morph to those abilities that is stamina based if it warrants, for example...Flame Lash for DK's would have a Stamina Version of it.
They're not just picking 3 abilities per Class and giving them a morph.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
Remember you can't stealth with them, there is tradeoffs, even if you boost them this way, they still have more disadvantages then any other skill in terms of cost and double bar slots to keep up with weapon switch and max mana penalty.
...
Do agree that there are tradeoffs involved in using pets.
But wasn't there a patch at some point that made it so pets enter Sneak with us?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »
Incorrect, they specifically said 3 abilities per Class will have Stamina based morphs.Also, do not forget that many class abilities will now have a stamina version that scales on weapon power. With all of the abilities out there that buff weapon power, sorcerers are far from unique in the way that you suggest.
That is incorrect
When they go over abilities, they're adding a 3rd Morph to those abilities that is stamina based if it warrants, for example...Flame Lash for DK's would have a Stamina Version of it.
They're not just picking 3 abilities per Class and giving them a morph.
Check twitch record on 1:35:10
"There is now around 3 options or so per class that..."Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!0 -
Nightreaver✭✭✭✭I'm still not quite sure how getting a major spell damage buff is not qualified as 'beneficial'? It will still be in the center of every sorcerer build. But builds will change, and people will adapt.
For Stamina builds yes, for Magicka builds....we'll have to wait and see unless you have access to the actual numbers. And if you don't then I'm not sure how you can qualify it as a major spell damage buff.
Surge comes with a hefty Magicka cost (oooh look, a Class Magicka ability that may be a core ability of Sorcerer Stamina builds). I imagine, if anything, the spell damage increase will be lowered since it is now being paired with a Weapon damage increase. Losing both the extended duration and the heal options will also lower interest in the ability.
So how much of a spell damage increase will it take to justify both the cost and taking up a slot on your active ability bar.
Since it also increases Weapon damage, how much spell damage increase will people allow before crying OP?
So yes, builds will change and people will adapt or move on as they always have. I'm just not sure that Surge will remain the center of these builds. Not for Magicka builds anyway.
If they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GamerzElite wrote: »
i agree. Pets can be potencially very good for pve
It'll be interesting to see just how much improved the DPS is with a pet build come 1.6 though. If even bad Sorcs can manage 1K DPS with a pet then the changes might be worth it.I can't believe they decided to highlight pets as our savior to DPS. Let's hope there's more to the ability changes than this.
still didnt fix any of the problems for pvp though and the options given about surge morphs as well are bad
But Pet + Skill eat your 2 Slots, as he said "We r bringing new deadric skill for pet"! 5-2=3
So you have only 3 slots to put skills.
** Correct me If I am wrong.
Even less:
2 Pets: 4 Slots
Petbuff Curse: 1 Slot
Empowered Ward: 1 Slot
Magelight (pets share your Critcrate now): 2 Slots
Have fun with a strong build where you are left with 2 slots you can customize. Its going to be insanly fun!
Sounds not usable in pvp at all and boring as hell for pve.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Homm✭✭✭Knowing Zenimax they will fu*k this up as usual. Their favorite DK will be best in both DPS and tanking ALWAYS, and NB will get closer and closer to DK, while sorc will get more and more useless. To people who say 1k dps on sorc means sorc is good - NO, IT'S ***. Try to go end game content and you will see you chances on good speedruns or sanctum - "no, thx, DK will make 1,7k dps, go away". Sorc is useless as a tank, useless as a healer and useless as a DPS (for highest content, not some mediocre dungeon running!). One good reason why the best tank is the best dps? Nope? Please put a note on sorc when creating a character that he is useless so new people won't make this mistake. Also, do remember to remove healing from crit surge, because fu*k us.8 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Homm
That's what bothers me as well. DKs are allowed to simply absorb each damage and can also anihilate everything withing seconds. This is not fair.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭
As I heard it they are NOT adding a 3rd morph but instead changing 1 of the 2 morphs of 3 abilities per Class to use Stamina. We'll know soon enough, it's supposed to be on PTS shortly.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »That is incorrect
When they go over abilities, they're adding a 3rd Morph to those abilities that is stamina based if it warrants, for example...Flame Lash for DK's would have a Stamina Version of it.
They're not just picking 3 abilities per Class and giving them a morph.
I'd be fine with ZoS changing it so that Sorc pets could be added to the Quickbar, seems reasonable.Even less:
2 Pets: 4 Slots
Petbuff Curse: 1 Slot
Empowered Ward: 1 Slot
Magelight (pets share your Critcrate now): 2 Slots
Have fun with a strong build where you are left with 2 slots you can customize. Its going to be insanly fun!
Sounds not usable in pvp at all and boring as hell for pve.Edited by DeLindsay on December 21, 2014 1:33PM1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, not to forget lighting flood who with it 5 second durationNightreaver wrote: »Well let me help you see then. Currently Crit Surge provides both a Heal and damage buff. With the change, Sorcerers with Magicka builds will lose one or the other while gaining nothing in return for that loss.
I'm sorry but this is just getting far too ridiculous. Stop the doom and gloom. We are gaining nothing in return for the loss? Really? Do you know any other class who has a buff that buffs them with spell damage? Right, there isn't. As it stands, with this change, we will still keep our superiority over other classes with the use of a destro staff, especially so with the removal of soft caps.
Yes, we have to sacrifice our heal for this. Will this be a problem? No. Not in trials and not in dungeons. Learn to adapt and deal with it.
This brings me to the next point, if pets will actually become viable in damage terms and survivability, a sorc can then use the twilight matriarch with the health restoring morph. There you go, our heal.
Wait it out until 1.6 hits and test it out for yourself, and stop spewing this utter nonsense that we're getting nerfed into oblivion and gaining nothing in return for it. Just because you aren't getting what you want, doesn't mean it's all nerfs.
Dude, we currently get the damaged buff and healing. If you are a magicka sorc, you now have to pick one or the other.
It really is not that complicated.
You're seeing it far too black and white.
Yes, but currently you have to spec yourself to support one build or another. In this case you have to spec yourself with weapon damage enchants next to your crit surge to take full advantage of the current destro staff scaling, as is what I have done. This means lacking spell damage for executes.
With 1.6, since everything falls into the same bucket, you can just enchant yourself fully towards spell damage plus the spell damage surge. Maybe crystal fragments will then even become viable in PVE builds.
If any other class would get a spell that buffs them with spell power, people would cry that it's OP and that they'll be at the top DPS without a shred of doubt.
Sorcerers get a spell that buffs spell power? Nah, it's a nerf.
Listen to yourself..........
About the spell damage, i will assume as much as the weapon damage.or at much as the difference between enchants who boost weapon and spell damageNightreaver wrote: »I'm still not quite sure how getting a major spell damage buff is not qualified as 'beneficial'? It will still be in the center of every sorcerer build. But builds will change, and people will adapt.
For Stamina builds yes, for Magicka builds....we'll have to wait and see unless you have access to the actual numbers. And if you don't then I'm not sure how you can qualify it as a major spell damage buff.
Surge comes with a hefty Magicka cost (oooh look, a Class Magicka ability that may be a core ability of Sorcerer Stamina builds). I imagine, if anything, the spell damage increase will be lowered since it is now being paired with a Weapon damage increase. Losing both the extended duration and the heal options will also lower interest in the ability.
So how much of a spell damage increase will it take to justify both the cost and taking up a slot on your active ability bar.
Since it also increases Weapon damage, how much spell damage increase will people allow before crying OP?
So yes, builds will change and people will adapt or move on as they always have. I'm just not sure that Surge will remain the center of these builds. Not for Magicka builds anyway.
Also it has to be high enough to make it relevant over health regen.
If you are using an staff you have no use for weapon damage anyway that is unless the light attack still does weapon damage.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
As I heard it they are NOT adding a 3rd morph but instead changing 1 of the 2 morphs of 3 abilities per Class to use Stamina. We'll know soon enough, it's supposed to be on PTS shortly.xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »That is incorrect
When they go over abilities, they're adding a 3rd Morph to those abilities that is stamina based if it warrants, for example...Flame Lash for DK's would have a Stamina Version of it.
They're not just picking 3 abilities per Class and giving them a morph.
I'd be fine with ZoS changing it so that Sorc pets could be added to the Quickbar, seems reasonable.Even less:
2 Pets: 4 Slots
Petbuff Curse: 1 Slot
Empowered Ward: 1 Slot
Magelight (pets share your Critcrate now): 2 Slots
Have fun with a strong build where you are left with 2 slots you can customize. Its going to be insanly fun!
Sounds not usable in pvp at all and boring as hell for pve.
Really they just need to change it back how it was, so pets only take up one ability slot. That's how they were designed and balanced.2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mages Guild
Fighters Guild
Vampire
Werewolf
Undaunted
All Classes
Resto Staff
Destro Staff
All run off spell damage
2h bow dual 1h+s run off weapon damage.
Mages Guild
Vampire
Undaunted
All Classes
Resto Staff
Destro Staff
All run off magicka
Fighters Guild
Werewolf
2h bow dual 1h+s run off stamina.
Choice 1.
Fighters Werewolf Classless + 2h dual 1h&s and Bow
Using Stamina, weapon power and weapon crit
Choice 2.
Mages All Classes Undaunted Vampire + Restro Destro
Using Magicka, spell power and spell crit
No stamina build will pack a resto/destro staff as they don't have the magicka spell power or spell crit to make it work in 1.6
No Magicka build will pack 2h dual 1j&s or bow as they don't have the magicka or weapon power or weapon crit to make it work in 1.6
Also note in 1.6 Heavy armour will bolster health and spell resist (sacrificing DPS). Light armour will bolster magicka and DPS (sacrificing armour and spell resist). So tanking is based on health and DPS is based on Magicka.
So which class will enhance DPS the most ?
So which class will enhance a magicka build the most ?
So which weapon will enhance a magicka build the most ?
Who will get crap performance out of restro ?
I really don't understand why any sorc would be complaining about anything. Its all looking peachy for you where I stand. If DPS is your worry I don't see it.Edited by Rune_Relic on December 21, 2014 2:49PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited5 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Rune_Relic
I know you think you're making a point, but it kinda gets lost in your vertically challenged post. Try fewer list and rhetorical questions and more statements/sentences.
May be easier to respond to.2 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightreaver wrote: »I'm still not quite sure how getting a major spell damage buff is not qualified as 'beneficial'? It will still be in the center of every sorcerer build. But builds will change, and people will adapt.
For Stamina builds yes, for Magicka builds....we'll have to wait and see unless you have access to the actual numbers. And if you don't then I'm not sure how you can qualify it as a major spell damage buff.
I'm assuming it's an equal number to the current weapon damage increase. Which would be major to say the least.Nightreaver wrote: »Surge comes with a hefty Magicka cost (oooh look, a Class Magicka ability that may be a core ability of Sorcerer Stamina builds)
I'm not quite sure why you're so hung up on this part of my post if you didn't even comprehend it in it's entirety. I specifically specified damage dealing class abilities, as most buffs stamina builds use in itself don't benefit from a spell damage increase.Nightreaver wrote: »I imagine, if anything, the spell damage increase will be lowered since it is now being paired with a Weapon damage increase. Losing both the extended duration and the heal options will also lower interest in the ability.
So how much of a spell damage increase will it take to justify both the cost and taking up a slot on your active ability bar.
Since it also increases Weapon damage, how much spell damage increase will people allow before crying OP?
Any spell damage increase is worth it really. Though at the end of the day, we won't even know what acceptable DPS is in 1.6, at least not if the numbers they've shown during the ESO lives are any indication to go by. As they've shown players with HP around 10k etc, it's safe to say all mobs and bosses would scale up aswell in HP meaning damage would aswell. Which could mean that someone who runs 800 dps right now will run 3000 dps in the new patch.
In this case everything will have to be re-invented and until then no one will even know the proper standard. It's just too early to judge and bash on all the changes until we've tried it out ourselves, then we can discuss the matter further.1 -
Nightreaver✭✭✭✭@Rune_Relic
Resto staff runs off weapon damage
Destro staff runs off weapon damage
Only one of the four Fighter guild is affected by spell power
Your list is confusing, misleading and incorrect so let me simplify
All Class abilities are affected by spell power
All weapon abilities are affected by weapon power
Vampire and Mage Guild line use Magicka
Werewolf and Fighter Guild use Stamina
Undaunted....does anyone use these? Does anyone care?
In response to your questions:
So which class will enhance DPS the most ? I'll pick DK since that is the current DPS king and we have no numbers yet to suggest anything will be different in 1.6
So which class will enhance a magicka build the most ? None. All classes have the same number of Magicka abilities.
So which weapon will enhance a magicka build the most ? Destro and Resto staff are best suited for Magicka builds while Two Hand, Dual wield, Bow and Sword and Board are best suited for Stamina builds.
Who will get crap performance out of restro ? Any Stamina build, just as any Magicka build will get crap performance out of Two Hand, Dual wield, Bow and Sword and Board.
If you're implying that Sorcerers have an advantage due to Light armor and the Destro staff then I'd like to point out that neither of those are Sorcerer class abilities and are available to all classes.Edited by Nightreaver on December 21, 2014 9:40PMIf they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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After 1.6 staffs will be based on magic power. Now spell power is not interesting for all abilities, abilities who don't heal or do damage is mostly not affected.Nightreaver wrote: »@Rune_Relic
Resto staff runs off weapon damage
Destro staff runs off weapon damage
Only one of the four Fighter guild is affected by spell power
Your list is confusing, misleading and incorrect so let me simplify
All Class abilities are affected by spell power
All weapon abilities are affected by weapon power
Vampire and Mage Guild line use Magicka
Werewolf and Fighter Guild use Stamina
Undaunted....does anyone use these? Does anyone care?
In response to your questions:
So which class will enhance DPS the most ? I'll pick DK since that is the current DPS king and we have no numbers yet to suggest anything will be different in 1.6
So which class will enhance a magicka build the most ? None. All classes have the same number of Magicka abilities.
So which weapon will enhance a magicka build the most ? Destro and Resto staff are best suited for Magicka builds while Two Hand, Dual wield, Bow and Sword and Board are best suited for Stamina builds.
Who will get crap performance out of restro ? Any Stamina build, just as any Magicka build will get crap performance out of Two Hand, Dual wield, Bow and Sword and Board.
An stamina based build would not focus on doing damage with magic based abilities anyway because of the low magic pool.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Nightreaver✭✭✭✭
If that's true then I'd be both very surprised and very happy. I would also be in complete agreement with you.I'm assuming it's an equal number to the current weapon damage increase. Which would be major to say the least.
Stamina builds are dependent on Stamina for damage. Surge will be a Class ability that increases Stamina and therefore increase the damage of any Stamina build. What am I not comprehending?I'm not quite sure why you're so hung up on this part of my post if you didn't even comprehend it in it's entirety. I specifically specified damage dealing class abilities, as most buffs stamina builds use in itself don't benefit from a spell damage increase.
For me personally I would have to disagree. To justify a slot on my active ability bar I would have to consider how much of an increase it gives and for how long vs. the magicka cost and its value compared to other active ability options. Since we don't know what the actual increase will be or what those other options will be, no one can really say if it will be worth it for Magicka builds.Any spell damage increase is worth it really.
Edited by Nightreaver on December 21, 2014 9:44PMIf they ever create a Legendary recipe it better contain bacon as one of the ingredients. I'm just sayin'.1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nightreaver wrote: »
Stamina builds are dependent on Stamina for damage. Surge will be a Class ability that increases Stamina and therefore increase the damage of any Stamina build. What am I not comprehending?I'm not quite sure why you're so hung up on this part of my post if you didn't even comprehend it in it's entirety. I specifically specified damage dealing class abilities, as most buffs stamina builds use in itself don't benefit from a spell damage increase.
I figured you were speaking about stamina builds as a whole, not just stamina builds limited to the sorcerer class. My point was, that a spell damage buff for a stamina build is entirely obsolete because stamina builds do not use magicka class damage dealing skills. And since class skills with a supportive nature don't benefit from the spell damage stat, stamina builds do not gain anything from it.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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So you never use any type of Execute? And come 1.6 ALL abilities that use Magicka will scale of of Magicka/Spell Damage/Spell Crit. No more funny business trying to determine what scales from what, so those supportive Class abilities that are Magicka will in fact scale off of Sorcs new morph that gives them Spell Damage.I figured you were speaking about stamina builds as a whole, not just stamina builds limited to the sorcerer class. My point was, that a spell damage buff for a stamina build is entirely obsolete because stamina builds do not use magicka class damage dealing skills. And since class skills with a supportive nature don't benefit from the spell damage stat, stamina builds do not gain anything from it.0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
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So you never use any type of Execute?I figured you were speaking about stamina builds as a whole, not just stamina builds limited to the sorcerer class. My point was, that a spell damage buff for a stamina build is entirely obsolete because stamina builds do not use magicka class damage dealing skills. And since class skills with a supportive nature don't benefit from the spell damage stat, stamina builds do not gain anything from it.
Why would you use a class execute as a stamina build? Your execute will crit for 1k max while your snipe already hits for 1.4k minimum on crits. If you want an execute with a stamina build, use a two hander for your offbar with the executioner skill.0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
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So you never use any type of Execute? And come 1.6 ALL abilities that use Magicka will scale of of Magicka/Spell Damage/Spell Crit. No more funny business trying to determine what scales from what, so those supportive Class abilities that are Magicka will in fact scale off of Sorcs new morph that gives them Spell Damage.I figured you were speaking about stamina builds as a whole, not just stamina builds limited to the sorcerer class. My point was, that a spell damage buff for a stamina build is entirely obsolete because stamina builds do not use magicka class damage dealing skills. And since class skills with a supportive nature don't benefit from the spell damage stat, stamina builds do not gain anything from it.
Again, there will be class abilities that use stamina as well.
Stam sorcs are getting everything we get, plus healing. There is no trade off. They're just getting a better deal.0
