Can't heal with a bow!

Wreuntzylla

Summary: Remove health caps when a fight starts.

With DPS, there really isn't over DPSing. At the end of a fight, if your DPS was over whatever mark is set for a boss, your golden, unless you obviously failed to get out of a big red circle of insta-death. If your output is a tad slow at one point, you can usually make it up.

Not so much for healers. Healers can over heal, so HPS isn't a very good metric. Further, instead of being timed against the health pool of the boss over the entire duration of a fight, you are timed against multiple, smaller health pools every second of the fight. The only (not really) viable metric for a healer is zero health.

What we need is a realistic mechanic that provides a mostly reliable metric for healer performance that puts Healers on par with DPS.

I'll take a stab at it. Once a group goes into combat the health cap should be removed. Then, similarly to DPS, it won't matter as much whether you performed poorly for a few seconds at one particular point in a fight as long as you filled everyone's health pool enough along the way, and HPS will have a place.

In addition to minimum thresholds, a good game mechanic might also set the maximum HPS, DPS, and combo HPS/DPS thresholds over which a tank can't reliably hold aggro.

As a result, the DPS and HPS will tell the whole story. DPS dies, minimum HPS wasn't met and DPS did not exceed the aggro threshold, point a finger at the healer. DPS dies, HPS was met and DPS exceeded max threshold, point finger at DPS. Both HPS and DPS were between the max and min threshold, point finger at the tank.

For particular boss mechanics, a message should be thrown up on the screen letting everyone know who screwed up. "Ipwnurface failed to leave the red circle of death in the 1 year allotted to do so and is dead." Better yet, the game should just pop up a mini screen that plays a recording of the portion of the fight where the person screwed up. In slow motion...

It's clearly not perfect for multiple reasons. But, much better than the current system where Healers are always suspect, DPS are generally absolved of all sin by meeting DPS reqs, and Heals/Tanks are left to unprovable who-saw-what-happened commentaries. "Tank failed to pick up aggro!" "No I didn't." "Ur mom u dint." "No, ur mom."

The game would also have to incorporate the meter. When people first started using damage meters, everything seemed fine until multiple DPS, using the same version of a particular damage meter, started posting numbers that didn't jive. My particular favorite, in a different MMO, was the time each of three DPS posted DPS numbers to chat, we had filmed the fight, and the numbers added up to killing the boss three times over...

midnight_tea

I didn't carry a bow with the upper most desire to do DPS although snipe is handy to take out caster and healer mobs at 1/4 or below life.

I took it because the use of knock back/stun and snare/off balance are helpful to me and in the end to my group.

There are many class or destro abilities who have the same effect and cost less/are more powerful, simply because healing spec is - so far - solely mana-based.

Binding javelin, volcanic rune, destructive touch for knockback/stun, vampire's bane/reflective light for snare, dark flare for healing debuff, power of the light or biting jabs for additional DPS, luminous shard for disorient, destro's crushing shock for interrupt, elemental drain for mana return for caster DPS.... so many things to pick!

There's just no excuse to pick a weapon that doesn't compliment a mana-based healer build over destro or resto. Heck, even sword and board would be better, even if only for healer's survivability/off-tanking.

I don't discount the restro stave and have moved to a bow/stave for pledges but still the main heal used is breath of life for reasons already stated.

I too was mostly relying on breath of life when I first began healing, but while BoL is the main heal, relying predominantly on it is a quick and easy way to run out of mana and let players we heal die.

I mean there's more to healing than BoL. AT the very least I keep at least a few dots active throughout majority of the fight and use burst heal only when it's necessary.

I have no points in stamina (Eeek! What about all the bow damage! <I don't care about DPS>) but have offset that with stamina glyphs, crit potions, and repentance to get quick stamina recovery.

And *why* would you sacrifice anything for bow/abilities that you have mana equivalent of? Not only they're weaker DPS-wise (even if you don't care for it), most of them also don't last as long or have weaker effect.

With this build I have run many veteran dungeons and even had success in pvp. There are a couple that have proven difficult, FG being one of those.

PvP is different from PvE - people use different builds for those. Even healing in PvP different.

Anyway - I have ran many vet dungeons as well. In fact I'm running them daily many times, farming boss helms with friends and guildies. Even today I've ran FG three times already in last 45 mins to farm Spawn of Mephala's mask - done it more than 6 times yesterday. And no - the dungeon is not that difficult if people know what they're doing. That includes knowing how to heal.

PBpsy

Ok . I changed my mind about the subject. Anyone want to run Vet Spindle with me? I will heal you to death with my Funnel health and Sap essence on my 2X destro NB.I just need you to be very awesome and take no freaking damage the entire time.If you are a noob and will take any damage when you are hit It is certainly not my fault.

Any takers on NA?.
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Actually if there are a people that want to try it for the lulz. I am willing.

Tonnopesce

boggie wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Never told you to play with me and i never complain about people dont accept me in groups i was only telling you that a not min\max build works.
I've choosed to run ad a stamina templar most for pvp where it works great and no one complaim about your build........
Clearly to run stamina i got to choose 2stamina weapon in my case DW and bow
But i'm not limited to pvp as a player even if i have a pve only main i want to run pve with my templar and ( you got me here) like you i dont have all day to play and to wait for a group to run a dungeon as a DPS( even if i can push over 8-900 or 1.2k with evil hunter stamina DPS) i choosed to spec the resto staff and with two professions , vampire, pvp lv 20 assault and Support, tree weapons , tree armors and the class skills trees i just dont have enought skills points to have even the destro staff so i've choosed a subpar build to be able to play.

And if you had actually read my post, you will see that in the very first line I made a point of saying that yes, it can work. I never stated otherwise. What I did say, was that regardless of how good you as a player are, resto staff/bow will NEVER and CAN NEVER be as efficient as resto/destro because of how the math works. I'm sorry. That's not up for debate. You can't make 1+1=3 no matter how bad you want it to. If you run with 1 stamina and 1 magicka based weapon, one or both of them will be less powerful.

So even i am exercising my way to play a little more magika management and DPS dont make you a better healer than me..... Like i've told you i dont run trials with this build and i dont complain if you dont want me in your group most of the playerbase is used to wipe 5-6 times in a dungeon run.

The same happened when no one wanted stamina builds around and now you have a stamina player in all the groups.

When i run with my main as a tank most of the times we ( pug groups ) cant complete a dungeon not for the healer but for lack of DPS or experiece ( if your group stay in the green smog in 3rd stage of the arena even if you are the best healer around your group mates will die ) imho

I'm sorry, but yes, if a player has better magicka management due to an optimized build, their character will be a better healer than your character. Not saying the player behind the character is necessarily better, but they have a better toolset to do the job. When forming a pug, that is all you have to go off of. When a player who understands how the math works sees, to use this thread's example, a healer rocking a stamina weapon, their first thought is not going to be "wow, this person is such a bada*** that they can heal effectively even with a gimped build", it's going to be "ok, here's a person with a setup that is already putting them at a disadvantage. Do I really want to gamble my time and possible ability to complete the content I want to complete on their ability to play with a handicap." If I don't personally know the individual, most of the time the answer is going to be no.

As far as the "5-6 wipes in a dungeon run being normal" thing goes... no... no it's not. On a normal dungeon, I see an average of 0-3 deaths (not wipes, deaths) per run. Vet mode 1-2 wipes is average from what I'm seeing (and this is from someone who only pugs and as far as vet dungeons go, is just seeing the content for the first time).

Yes, of course there are mechanics you can't heal through. But to throw that out there and say "well, since I can't save them if they do x, it doesn't matter if my heals are a little underpowered" is just silly.

Hi again
you are debating only on how your math works i agree as told that a resto /destro works better but i wanted to do a point for the op.

Told this better magika manegment can be obtained tru potions and food or drinks so even if you have the reason to tell me that if i use a magika stamina combo ( i do know that im my or op's specific case we can do use a dual resto and close the debate here) one output is gimped but dps output not healing output so again no point to debate.

The fact that i'm spamming in chat vr 14 healer lfg is for do the healer not to demonstrate that a resto/bow is better or that i'm cooler than resto /destro healers.
And you cannot simply judge by the apparence : i can be a badass healer resto/destro but with a dropped *** set without potions and food but carryed tru the dragonstar arena and with the title under the head or a "disadvantage" healer resto/ bow with a full 5 warlock 5 seducer a the master resto legendary staff a legendary bow ,vr5 tri stat potions vr5 spell power potions and vr5 food with the noob title under the head.
So again no point to debate about apparence.

When i was in early pre vr 5 levels with my main i was a healer dk and evrybody told me that they dont wanted to run with me in dungeons because templar are better in healing ( wrong btw), now that i have a templar even if evrybody knows that class skills are NOT related to the weapon you use evrybody tells me that i'm wrong to use a bow just to equip in the second bar the templar skills ( i have told you that i dont have the skill point to spec the destro).

It is wothless to debate on how math works since is quite the same for all, even if we have begun to debate on how to heal for a templar without using a destro resto combo and we are now on how a healer can do more dps.

I dont know wich faction or server are you but here in DC europe megeserver
5-6 wipes in a vet dungeon for most pug groups is normal ( imho 50% of the hig level population) if you personally run only with people who have the "dragonstar arena champion" under their heads gratz for esclude all the others.
Not a problem and not complaining but you are talking like all the players in this game at hig levels, are good players or pseudo elite players, WRONG

And at last if you choose to run as a healer you want to push full healing power not dps and carryng a bow is not gimping your heals.
A group btw is made by 4 persons and if the dp's or the tank do "x" 4 times in a run i go away imo.


Hope you can understand since english is not my 1st language i've tryed to correct evrything i found but i'm shure there is more.

Cheers

RAZORNZL

Easy...just tell em to stick it and find better people to run groups with.

Wolfshead

Gyudan wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

So you tell me if i craft a 1 hand mace and shield which dont have any stats on and put glyphs that have Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit it wont work as heal weapon then i think should go and tell Wizards of the Coast which more or less and set the standerd of how RPG with best sell game like Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate just to name few of game that is build on same rule like AD&D that the are total wrong.

Tonnopesce

Ooooooooookkkkkkk it sems that i' m a little late (brain side)
A kind guy send me a message about my understanding error on the thread......
Healing only with a bow........ Lol i was on my personal thread....... -_-
Btw i told what i think and i think it works..... Since the op has respec a resto if he cant use a magika weapon my option is viable....
LOL (a sad lol)

timidobserver

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

As a healer you shoudn't be doing anything that doesn't add anything to or detracts from your healing. The same goes for DPS and Tanking. When you have a bunch of people trying and failing to perform 2-3 different roles you end up in FG for 4 hours as the OP described in his post.

PBpsy

Wolfshead wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

So you tell me if i craft a 1 hand mace and shield which dont have any stats on and put glyphs that have Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit it wont work as heal weapon then i think should go and tell Wizards of the Coast which more or less and set the standerd of how RPG with best sell game like Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate just to name few of game that is build on same rule like AD&D that the are total wrong.

This is a discussion about ESO Templars and ESO healing not AD&D clerics. This game doesn't and doesn't have to follow that same rule set.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

PBpsy wrote: »

Ok . I changed my mind about the subject. Anyone want to run Vet Spindle with me? I will heal you to death with my Funnel health and Sap essence on my 2X destro NB.I just need you to be very awesome and take no freaking damage the entire time.If you are a noob and will take any damage when you are hit It is certainly not my fault.

Any takers on NA?.
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Actually if there are a people that want to try it for the lulz. I am willing.

I'll do it with you on my Dual Wield / Bow ... Stamina heavy hybrid Nightblade and I will also have Funnel Health and Sap essence slotted...anyone else want to join in..

AlexDougherty

timidobserver wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

As a healer you shoudn't be doing anything that doesn't add anything to or detracts from your healing. The same goes for DPS and Tanking. When you have a bunch of people trying and failing to perform 2-3 different roles you end up in FG for 4 hours as the OP described in his post.

I know what you mean, and personally I would have a restoration staff myself, even on a templar, but I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, which I tend to do in game too.

Varicite

***_Hero wrote: »

I got kicked out of a group before he even saw what I could do with my build. He said that he wouldn't play around with ppl that messed around and played the way the want to with some useless build. Lol. Elitist *** bags. This champion system coming out better allow ppl to be more versatile with their builds. Eff elitist.

I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of us are very familiar w/ the capabilities of each weapon and the way that the stats actually work in the game.

Sure, you can be a healer w/ a bow, but anybody who knows anything about game mechanics will automatically know that either your bow will be gimped or your heals will be gimped.

I know that when I, personally, am looking for group members, I want them to be focused on their role. I want my DPS to be good DPS, I want my heals to be good heals, and I want my tank to be beefy. If I invite a healer w/ a bow, I will immediately think "great, I just invited half a player" and will hold out for somebody who cares a bit more about making it through the dungeon smoothly for all of us.

You can call me an "elitist" for feeling this way. I will simply call you selfish in return, for wasting everybody else's time w/ a build that can only do half what other players w/ competent builds could do.

Unfortunately, no amount of wishing will change this very simple fact. There are mechanics in place that say that no, you are not as effective as a healer when you're using a bow. I would sideline you for somebody who cares, too.

After all, the odds of a pug both using almost as inferior a build as possible AND being extremely proficient w/ it to the point of not feeling like I should have invited a full healer are... well, extremely low, to put it nicely.

Ommamar

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

As a healer you shoudn't be doing anything that doesn't add anything to or detracts from your healing. The same goes for DPS and Tanking. When you have a bunch of people trying and failing to perform 2-3 different roles you end up in FG for 4 hours as the OP described in his post.

I know what you mean, and personally I would have a restoration staff myself, even on a templar, but I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, which I tend to do in game too.

So by taking 3 seconds to finish of a mob that is low health but still dealing damage not helping your healing by eliminating a damage source? So a NB shouldn't use Siphon to get the passive heals as that will detract from a slot that is just damage; what about sparks that negates damage but does no direct damage? A DK shouldn't equip Green Dragon Blood as he should be taunt/damage focused? That is just silly! There are so many different builds and way to play why limit yourself to a trinity role? As for the FG group everyone was sticking fairly well to the "roles" they had designated, I believe in that case it was more a matter of coordination.

AlexDougherty

Ommamar wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

As a healer you shoudn't be doing anything that doesn't add anything to or detracts from your healing. The same goes for DPS and Tanking. When you have a bunch of people trying and failing to perform 2-3 different roles you end up in FG for 4 hours as the OP described in his post.

I know what you mean, and personally I would have a restoration staff myself, even on a templar, but I was giving the OP the benefit of the doubt, which I tend to do in game too.

So by taking 3 seconds to finish of a mob that is low health but still dealing damage not helping your healing by eliminating a damage source? So a NB shouldn't use Siphon to get the passive heals as that will detract from a slot that is just damage; what about sparks that negates damage but does no direct damage? A DK shouldn't equip Green Dragon Blood as he should be taunt/damage focused? That is just silly! There are so many different builds and way to play why limit yourself to a trinity role? As for the FG group everyone was sticking fairly well to the "roles" they had designated, I believe in that case it was more a matter of coordination.

As I said I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume you know what you're doing until I see evidence otherwise, I give people the benefit of the doubt, because there are plenty of quirky builds that work.

Now I personally prefer Resto staff for MY healer, my choice, but I don't condemn you for yours. Read my posts (not many I admit) I have been defending you.

I have been saying that if you say your healer can heal properly with a bow, then I would give you the chance to show it.

BRogueNZ

dead stuff does less damage, less healing req
people have their own heals they to need take some responsibility
burst heals and cheap ultimate for Templars for *** hitting fan moments
you get to kill stuff and enjoy a little variety in your game instead just spam HoT's
its ok for a healer to be selfish, everyone else has that liberty

itsBishop

BRogueNZ wrote: »

dead stuff does less damage, less healing req
people have their own heals they to need take some responsibility
burst heals and cheap ultimate for Templars for *** hitting fan moments
you get to kill stuff and enjoy a little variety in your game instead just spam HoT's
its ok for a healer to be selfish, everyone else has that liberty

Hope you enjoy that repair bill after grouping with the healer who really wants to pump out his wicked awesome 400 DPS in lieu of actually keeping you alive.

Like other have mentioned: you need to maximize you effectiveness in your role before starting to dabble into someone else's. Sure, I generally slot DPS skills for vet dungeon runs and often contribute considerably to the total damage done to bosses/trash, but as soon as someone takes a solid hit I immediately switch back and do the job that I was pulled in to do. If you find yourself in a situation where you're consistently blaming group deaths on DPS and/or tank missteps you really need to reevaluate your own performance. A good healer can keep groups alive through a ridiculous amount of screw-ups. That's your job, first and foremost. Once you've mastered that you're free to put on your DPS pants on the weekends.

BRogueNZ

itsBishop wrote: »

Hope you enjoy that repair bill after grouping with the healer who really wants to pump out his wicked awesome 400 DPS in lieu of actually keeping you alive.

Like other have mentioned: you need to maximize you effectiveness in your role before starting to dabble into someone else's. Sure, I generally slot DPS skills for vet dungeon runs and often contribute considerably to the total damage done to bosses/trash, but as soon as someone takes a solid hit I immediately switch back and do the job that I was pulled in to do. If you find yourself in a situation where you're consistently blaming group deaths on DPS and/or tank missteps you really need to reevaluate your own performance. A good healer can keep groups alive through a ridiculous amount of screw-ups. That's your job, first and foremost. Once you've mastered that you're free to put on your DPS pants on the weekends.

I heal just fine and prefer running with groups that don't screw up though obviously it happens and sometimes it's my bad.

I do know how to swap out skills if things are not going to plan, amazing I know, and I'm not even v14 yet. One day I'll be a real wizard.

Comes down to how seriously you take it and your ability to earn gold really.

xaraan

This all seems pretty defensive about the use of the bow. You've had several experienced players explain very well how it's not the best option. But maybe it comes across as, "never use the bow" or similar. I don't think that's what we are all saying. I, and probably some others, are talking about making a real committed, difficult dungeon run and what's best for that.

We have our moments in our group of us goofing off, trying weird stuff in dungeons or alternate characters and builds. But we also have are runs where we decide to get serious, do call-outs, have a good strategy for each fight, and build the best for the run. When I say use a resto staff - that's what I'm talking about. For a serious, challenging run.

And if I'm pugging it, I always run like that anyway just because I want to either make a good impression or not let the other players down.

Which is what it comes down to - trust. I usually tank. As a tank, I'm wading into some big pulls first, pulling aggro on the biggest stuff and as much other stuff as I can and I'm depending on the healer to keep me in a position where I can keep doing that, while the dps'rs do their thing. That doesn't mean I want to watch my health drop down to 50% or less because a healer wants to hold onto their breath of life - sometimes bosses drop a ton of damage on you quick with certain attacks. A resto staff can help keep health topped off without when there isn't some huge damage hitting someone, with less mana use than many templar spells. It can also help you regain magicka so you'll have it to use when it's really needed.

If I feel like I can't trust the healer to heal me when I need it, then I'm not going to want to run with them. (I've already had words in the past with healers or tanks that were worried more about doing some dps than doing what their main role is). That doesn't mean someone can't make mistakes - we all screw up. And it doesn't mean you can't find ways to contribute to dps when all your bases are covered. But if I was to not getting healed well and you were using a bow, I'd definitely point to that as a major part of the problem. Maybe you can, I don't know for sure without running with you. But I run with, what I think, is one of the best healers in the game that I've ever run with and I also play a templar healer myself. I'd feel like I was giving up a lot by putting down my resto and picking up a bow -- definitely giving up more than you add to the fight with a bow you aren't built to make the most use of.

But again. I'm talking: serious mode. Running the hardest content in the game type stuff. If you aren't doing that, then there is plenty of room to break away from the min/maxing.

whsprwind

On my templar healer I don't use any resto skills yet I stick with a resto staff.
There aren't really any mechanics that absolutely need you to have a resto staff skill (only one i can think of is the Kwama in DC)

All other mechanics like Vila theran, Engine spider, bloodspawn... they simply deal a fixed amount of dmg over a short period of time. Full Magicka spamming BoL can cover that and is also safer to do that as I can be sure that nobody dies when I'm spamming BOL

So why use a resto > Helps me recover magicka, also cut costs on potions.

If I wanna do damage, there's reflective light and spear shards. There's no reason to use a bow except that you wanna try and be different. You must then be prepared to be the "weird kid" when you insist on doing so

Darthryan

I play a nb healer and bow user. In pve or pvp if I'm healing I wear light armor and use a resto staff. If I'm dps then I use my bow with medium gear. Cause this is how I optimize my role. When I'm healing, sometimes I'll swap to bow and snipe an add. Granted with no stamina, that equals only three snipes at about 600 a hit. So 1800 in dps on an add doesn't kill it. So I'm not quite sure how much damage this op is doing with this build. If he was in my group as a healer I would make him use a staff or switch gear to dps. Cause as it is, his build seems useless compared to just booting him from group and grabbing someone else. Especially in vet dungeons, If you don't optimize your gear and skills, then you and you're group is going to wipe too much and when this happens, cause you are to stubborn to change the way you play, then you *** everyone else off.

So I have no sympathy for you at all. Learn the game. Harsh but I've been there before. That's how you learn.

Magdalina

Ommamar wrote: »

Interesting so lets see what does shield/one hand passives have to do with healing? They give you survivability if you draw aggro until hopefully the tank notices but they won't improve the heals. What about two Hander? Destro staff? By your logic the only option for a healer to have is a restro stave might as well dual bar it then right?

Yes. By no means do I want to sound elitist and I hate being pigeonholed into certain roles and builds myself, but yes, if you want to heal endgame content, you want to use resto staff, possibly on both bars. You can probably have an off weapon of your choice for most content though - most common seems destro staff for some dps, since destro staff scales off the same stats as resto and *mostly* off the same stats as templar class heals.

If you're confident you can heal AND off dps, wonderful(no sarcasm intended, it's awesome when healer and group in general are good enough to allow for that), but as been said countless times, stamina based weapon is bad choice for magicka based build. You'll probably do more damage just spamming resto staff heavy if you're maxed out on magicka and spellcrit(as you should be for heals) than using bow with 0 points in stamina and wep crit. It's not about elitist mindset, it's only logical. I'm sorry if you have no skillpoints for another weapon, I feel your pain(doing all crafting on one character wasn't my brightest idea), but you can't blame people for freaking out a bit when they see what should be a magicka based build using a stamina based weapon.

zaria

Sleep wrote: »

If you can heal your buddies up with a bow you can just do it. But you can't. maybe you were not good enough at healing, or your buddies were taking too much damage. It's not only your bad but as a group, your duty was to heal, and that healing was not good enough for your group. one thing I'm sure is that if you're a Templar you can heal with any weapons but you can heal better with a restoration staff. If you insist on healing with a bow, you'd better look for a better group which requires less healing.

This, it depend a lot on group,

timidobserver wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

As a healer you shoudn't be doing anything that doesn't add anything to or detracts from your healing. The same goes for DPS and Tanking. When you have a bunch of people trying and failing to perform 2-3 different roles you end up in FG for 4 hours as the OP described in his post.

That was because the group was not very good
Two of them had not done it before, general low but even level, probably not very good gear, and so on.

Backup is an dps who takes over tank or healing if either is either killed or not avail like with the chaining or sent to room with spiders and tanking or healing is needed.

GreyBrow

Ommamar wrote: »

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard! The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads. Just finished a 4 hour FG attempt that was unsuccessful not to any bad play just to the fact that we couldn't get by the second boss.

I was honestly ready to quit last night not because of any defect to the game although there are minor ones but to the people who insist that things must be played this way or that way. I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception. I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

If you spent 4 hours in FG..

You're doin it wrong.

Darlgon

zaria wrote: »

This, it depend a lot on group,

....


That was because the group was not very good
Two of them had not done it before, general low but even level, probably not very good gear, and so on.

Backup is an dps who takes over tank or healing if either is either killed or not avail like with the chaining or sent to room with spiders and tanking or healing is needed.

Interesting new details. I take it the OP called you as a group member in for backup?

Does not change what people are saying. That you need to load (resto/anything including bow) instead of (bow/bow with templar heals) for Vet content if you are a healer.

OP came to forums to say "We wiped a lot in our 4 hour FG Vet run. My group was mad at me because I was saying I was a main healer with a bow/bow setup on my templar." Then he got mad at everyone who said he was doing it wrong.

BBSooner

If you play a healing hybrid (heal without the main healing weapon in game) you should probably group with other hybrids. It sounds like your group wanted/needed a dedicated healer as opposed to a hybrid build. Neither opinion is as at fault, imo, but you clearly weren't a fit for that group.

Cherryblossom

If your using a bow, you want to be a DPS. Don't pretend to be a healer if you want to be a DPS.
You should claim to be an off healer may be, which is probably not necessary with a real full time healer.

zaria

Darlgon wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

This, it depend a lot on group,

....


That was because the group was not very good
Two of them had not done it before, general low but even level, probably not very good gear, and so on.

Backup is an dps who takes over tank or healing if either is either killed or not avail like with the chaining or sent to room with spiders and tanking or healing is needed.

Interesting new details. I take it the OP called you as a group member in for backup?

Does not change what people are saying. That you need to load (resto/anything including bow) instead of (bow/bow with templar heals) for Vet content if you are a healer.

OP came to forums to say "We wiped a lot in our 4 hour FG Vet run. My group was mad at me because I was saying I was a main healer with a bow/bow setup on my templar." Then he got mad at everyone who said he was doing it wrong.

Sorry, I posted earlier in this tread and I have also had an 4 hour wipefeast in FG so I thought your comment was directed to me. I did not run together with the tread starter nor know him.

I'm a sorcerer and I was dps in our run, however switched to healing staff and heal then healer was out.

And I agree that a healer should use an healing staff exception is easy runs where the healer also do dps on the side. However I only know sorc healing.

chipputer

This is where the disconnect between optimization and "play as you want," comes in and where the people who stubbornly refuse to do anything but "play as you want," end up getting frustrated.

In the early levels I was all for using a bow/resto staff (lookie there, I off-handed a resto staff) as a healer. I would use the bow purely for Magnum Shot whenever an enemy got close to me and every other skill loaded onto my bow bar either aided my healing or aided the DPS.

As I've gotten into trials and veteran content (and by this I mean finished all of my questing and such and am now settling into the group content), I've began running resto/resto in groups with my bars loaded as follows:

1. Healing Springs, Dark Flare, Vampire's Bane, Power of the Light, Inner Light
ULT: Generally Solar Disturbance
2. Extended Ritual, Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Breath of Life, Inner Light
ULT: Generally Remembrance

SITUATIONAL SKILLS: (these can replace any skill on the first bar, or Extended Ritual on the second bar) Spear Shards (any morph is fine), Radiant Aura (for stamina heavy parties), Siphon Spirit (sees more use in trials than anywhere else), as well as random others that I slot when asked if I have them, such as Blazing Shield, Channeled Focus, etc.

This is purely my setup for group content only. It requires carrying an extra resto staff and is about the best healer setup you can get. Not only do you have a heal for every situation, but you also remove negative statuses from your party members (if they press the X button and don't just expect you to run Efficient Purge instead) while having sustainable HoTs and an easy party buff. During damage phases where healing isn't necessary, you have an 8 second rotation of...

Power of the Light, weave light attack, Vampire's Bane, weave light attack, Dark Flare, repeat weave into Dark Flare until Power of the Light pops, start rotation over again.

This aids party DPS, since Dark Flare adds damage to your party members attacks, as well as adds a bit of your own during damage phases. You will also have a massive emergency ultimate heal (that reduces damage taken so saves those low health party members) and an ultimate that you should drop, otherwise, that reduces damage to members standing in it while dealing massive AoE damage. As a healer you'll be generating a lot of ultimate if you're doing your job well.

Solo, and PvP, I run 1h/shield with a resto staff and I change my bars to either be focused on AoE (for PvE), or focused on Shield Charge with the idea of being a front lines healer that can help prevent damage to my allies by charging down anybody who gets close. Do I use this during PvE? No. Elloa does, however, and she saw mild success with it during ESO Live, however she wasn't as optimized as other builds might have been and they were also not running a vet dungeon.

ALL OF THIS JUST TO MAKE THIS POINT:

Your mentality is holding you back. Playing as you want is fine, and I support it, but when it comes to being in a group you should have the courtesy and forethought to build properly to save, not only your own time, but the other 3+ people's time as well.

I don't understand why people feel like it's a terrible thing that a healer is expected to play the whole part of a healer, a tank a tank, a dps a dps, etc.

(And to the guy claiming that Crushing Shock isn't better, rather the other morph is, I submit to you that while you're doing higher DPS you're missing out on the utility of Crushing Shock, hence the reason why it's so wanted during certain runs, which tells me you completely miss the point of why it's so good.)

spryler

It is not elitism if people do not want a Bow Healer in their Veteran Dungeon group.

You should be able to play a Bow Healer because - that is how you want to play.

A group should be able to politely decline a Bow Healer because - that is how they want to play.

So by all means continue to heal with a bow, but don't be surprised or complain if people do not accept you into their group. That is their right, just as choosing to play a bow healer is your right.

Aeratus

PBpsy wrote: »

Ok . I changed my mind about the subject. Anyone want to run Vet Spindle with me? I will heal you to death with my Funnel health and Sap essence on my 2X destro NB.I just need you to be very awesome and take no freaking damage the entire time.If you are a noob and will take any damage when you are hit It is certainly not my fault.

Never tried, but I think vet spindle should be doable without a healer. I'm thinking of a group with 1 DK tank, 1 sorc, 1 funnel health NBs, and 1 other dps with high survivability.

The gargoyle boss and all trash pulls can surely be done without a healer. DK tank standing close to the gargoyle, and 3 ranged dps (including one NB with funnel health) standing out of the red zone should be more than enough. The heavy melee hit that the gargoyle does has a visual cue, and can be dodged.

On the praxis boss, crit surge, veil, sap and banner should allow the group to survive the initial wave. After that, all mobs can be CC'ed, including the big spiders, and the two adds with 95k HP (what cause difficulty for many people is that they forget to use CC, and thus take unnecessary damage from the two high-HP mobs). So with enough people spamming negate, mass hysteria, volcanic, and you can get through it without taking too much damage. The boss himself drains resource, but tanking the boss is fine as long as the tank has enough stam, and uses skills like absorb. It's also possible to have two people alternate tanking.

On the last boss, as long as everyone in the group has enough HP to survive the rage charge, you should have enough survivability.