Can't heal with a bow!

Gyudan

***_Hero wrote: »

I got kicked out of a group before he even saw what I could do with my build. He said that he wouldn't play around with ppl that messed around and played the way the want to with some useless build. Lol. Elitist *** bags. This champion system coming out better allow ppl to be more versatile with their builds. Eff elitist.

Find some friends and play with them.
Most players aren't willing to risk wasting an entire hour wiping in a dungeon because one of the group members is using a less than optimal build and drags everyone down.

I don't mind having fun with guildies that I know.
I mind wasting time with randoms that I'll never see again.

AlexDougherty

Ommamar wrote: »

I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception.

Yeah, perception is the problem ninety percent of the time, people latch on to simplistic solutions and expect everyone else to follow suit.

Most of the claims that someone is chrating is because they are not following the pre-ordained way of doing it. God help us if we have to think.

BTW Congrats on having a sniper healer in this game, hope your next group is more flexible in it's approach.

Robocles

Ommamar wrote: »

Interesting so lets see what does shield/one hand passives have to do with healing? They give you survivability if you draw aggro until hopefully the tank notices but they won't improve the heals. What about two Hander? Destro staff? By your logic the only option for a healer to have is a restro stave might as well dual bar it then right?

"It seems to me like the OP actually spent 4h and failed at the second boss in FG so I am unsure of how effective that build is."-PBpsy.
What is funny is that run was after I spent 6k to respec as I was curious about how the Restro stave would work out.

Gyudan wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

Ok how is this all stats into magic. glyphs on major pieces magic, the Atronoch as the chosen constellation, Warlock amulet and ring to put me 3 points from magic regeneration cap. Then magica potions if things get really harry. Along with the two Templar heals place snare, knock back, and snipe on the heal bar. Keep mobile when there is an opportunity to finish off adds particularly casters take it. When you pull aggro use the knockback too create distance and stun the target. Focus on breath of life and staying out of the red.

"I had a Templar try to heal a vet WS this was someone who used a bow also, I'm not familiar with the Templar healers ability names but that healer would drop a circle under me as a tank, we all know you move a bit during the first boss, then he had to what appeared to be cast another heal."-Xjcon

He was likely dropping circle of protection or perhaps rune focus, both raise armor and resists. So what if you have to move out of that area of the buff it will help you survive that instance and in the case of CoP it raises the healing you receive. I am not sure what fight you where on but for the majority of boss fights in the dungeons you have to be mobile. So the HPS you gain from the stave has to be mobile too. Even with the stave equipped Breath of Life, the lowly Templar heal, is my go to just because it goes to the most in need in the shortest amount of time.

"Then he would start shooting the boss with his bow rather then res the dps he let die,"-Xjcon

Maybe the DPS should of moved out of red? Maybe they shouldn't of tried to burn down the boss by themselves? Maybe the healer did try and heal them but it was a special attack that was more then the heal? Or maybe he was under aggro or made a simple mistake? See it is funny because that is the attitude that is prevalent. The healer is always held accountable regardless of what action the other player took.


As to the statement of the mana return with stave use. Yes that is nice but not always feasible to stop target and heavy attack. If you know how to manage potions you can use that path.

So you have a full magicka setup and try to dps with a bow? Brilliant.

Tonnopesce

Robocles wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

Interesting so lets see what does shield/one hand passives have to do with healing? They give you survivability if you draw aggro until hopefully the tank notices but they won't improve the heals. What about two Hander? Destro staff? By your logic the only option for a healer to have is a restro stave might as well dual bar it then right?

"It seems to me like the OP actually spent 4h and failed at the second boss in FG so I am unsure of how effective that build is."-PBpsy.
What is funny is that run was after I spent 6k to respec as I was curious about how the Restro stave would work out.

Gyudan wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

Ok how is this all stats into magic. glyphs on major pieces magic, the Atronoch as the chosen constellation, Warlock amulet and ring to put me 3 points from magic regeneration cap. Then magica potions if things get really harry. Along with the two Templar heals place snare, knock back, and snipe on the heal bar. Keep mobile when there is an opportunity to finish off adds particularly casters take it. When you pull aggro use the knockback too create distance and stun the target. Focus on breath of life and staying out of the red.

"I had a Templar try to heal a vet WS this was someone who used a bow also, I'm not familiar with the Templar healers ability names but that healer would drop a circle under me as a tank, we all know you move a bit during the first boss, then he had to what appeared to be cast another heal."-Xjcon

He was likely dropping circle of protection or perhaps rune focus, both raise armor and resists. So what if you have to move out of that area of the buff it will help you survive that instance and in the case of CoP it raises the healing you receive. I am not sure what fight you where on but for the majority of boss fights in the dungeons you have to be mobile. So the HPS you gain from the stave has to be mobile too. Even with the stave equipped Breath of Life, the lowly Templar heal, is my go to just because it goes to the most in need in the shortest amount of time.

"Then he would start shooting the boss with his bow rather then res the dps he let die,"-Xjcon

Maybe the DPS should of moved out of red? Maybe they shouldn't of tried to burn down the boss by themselves? Maybe the healer did try and heal them but it was a special attack that was more then the heal? Or maybe he was under aggro or made a simple mistake? See it is funny because that is the attitude that is prevalent. The healer is always held accountable regardless of what action the other player took.


As to the statement of the mana return with stave use. Yes that is nice but not always feasible to stop target and heavy attack. If you know how to manage potions you can use that path.

So you have a full magicka setup and try to dps with a bow? Brilliant.

Come here just to troll without explaining your position?
This is brilliant

RinaldoGandolphi

Every skill in this game is viable and OP in the right situation. I think optimal builds are hog wash play what fits your style.

As a Sorc, I don't use critical surge, crushing shock, or the rest of the cookie cutter build, yet I was in the top 100 for AA, infact the folks I ran it with couldn't believe how effective I was.

Take Force Pulse for example, its better then Crushing Shock, it synergizes with the staffs elemental status effects, Force Pulse is ESO version of Chain Lighting from Skyrim and is way more mama efficent for hitting multiple targets then AOE spells are. Drop 1 WOE tap force pulse hit 3 people, secondary targets proc element effects too, have even see it proc disintegration. I'll continue to let folks believe crushing shock is better.

Elemental drain is blah compared to Elemental Susceptibility with all the passives guarantees you keep a DOT element effect on the boss which =more damage, drain don't return enough magic to be Worth it, but again, I'm not going to try and convince them otherwise, ill continue to destroy things faster why they get back some paltry mama return.

The point is play what you want. As long as your build fits your style its viable. If they don't like it, play with someone else.

MiyaTheUnbroken

I don't do dungeons or trials, so take this with a grain of salt, but I say *** those guys. Play whatever you want. Months and months ago I picked up a bow on my nb and started sniping. I dropped all the nb skills except for cloak and completely ignored magicka. People gave me so much crap. Anytime I asked a question about my build I got the response "try a build that isn't worthless." Random strangers would send me advice just to let me know that nbs should be magicka. But here's the thing, I don't care about my dps. I don't care if I win all the time. I just wanted to play and have fun like I've done in every TES game. I want to use a bow, so I use a bow and every one else can *** off.

Sleep

If you can heal your buddies up with a bow you can just do it. But you can't. maybe you were not good enough at healing, or your buddies were taking too much damage. It's not only your bad but as a group, your duty was to heal, and that healing was not good enough for your group. one thing I'm sure is that if you're a Templar you can heal with any weapons but you can heal better with a restoration staff. If you insist on healing with a bow, you'd better look for a better group which requires less healing.

midnight_tea

Honestly? I understand that people like the idea od "do/play what you want", but I'm not sure how many are aware that complete freedom will never actually work. I mean, even if ESO was a perfectly balanced game (it isn't, though it's getting better), there will always be more effective builds than others.

In a sense, it's like with cooking - you can create and eat whatever you want, you can even try and bake fish, pickles and raspberry sauce cake, but unless you're a master cook who uses some tricks and specifically prepared produces, you're unlikely to get a tasty snack (not to mention the risk of indigestion).

Then there's of course the whole concept of a game itself; if everything is easy and we can match everything with anything, then it completely undermines the effort of figuring out what works and what doesn't, either for the role or for the situation.
And sure, in some scenarios, there are more choices than others and there are situations in ESO, in which a cookie cutter build is simply not necessary... but I'd say that if you want to heal for endgame or Vet pledges (with gold option), you definitely have to ditch the bow.

At best, you can keep the bow on an off-bar, in case your group lacked DPS or keep sword and board in case tank needs some help - my dedicated templar healer has definitely been in such situations. But even if there's a moment when a healer would have to help with DPS or tanking, there's just no way a mana-oriented healer would do more damage with a bow than with destro staff or some class abilities slotted in (unless you're using addons like Wykkyd's Outfitter to switch gear entirely or something).

And if you really, really, really want to use bow in dungeons, just go as a DPS with situational off-heals.

If you insist on healing with a bow, you'd better look for a better group which requires less healing.

Better groups usually require competent healing. I've done enough endgame content to know that dungeons can be completed without a tank, but they're frustrating without a dedicated healer (unless you have three caster Nightblades in a group, all using funnel health/sap essence/veil, lol).

I mean yeah, good players will avoid standing on red and generally have better survivability, but they can also use more risky tactics or abilities, like spell symmetry, many times during the fight. I myself learned to use this ability extensively on my sorc/NB simply because I had healers I could trust.
Also, stam DPS are now becoming more and more viable, but they can actually be more squishy and require more attention form healer than even spell-symming casters.

Rosveen

What veteran dungeons have you successfully healed with this setup? I'm not doubting you, I'm genuinely curious because I've never run with this kind of an unconventional healer.

itsBishop

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

No need to gimp yourself i can easy swich from full stamina in pvp glass cannon set up 250 WP DMG 60% weapon crit 2300 health 2800 stamina and 1300 magika 5 med 2 heavy into pve set up full magika 135spell DMG 52% spell crit 1200 stamina 2500 health 2800 magika 5 light 2 med or full light

You cannot swap gear during combat. This means that whatever choice you make prior to walking into a particular pull is setting the stage for your potential output. Slap on your stamina gear before a trash pull hoping to do solid DPS and your group mates run into trouble? Well, now you're gimped in terms of your potential healing output. Coming up to that boss and feel like you need extra heals? Slap on your magicka gear. But oh wait! Looks like no one is really taking damage, but the boss burn is going slowly. Switch to your bow to find you have absolutely no stamina/no damage output.

It's just not using the logic of the game to your advantage, man. Sure it might be passable in some instances but you're going to run into more issues than you need to in your pursuit of this hybrid build.

Qhival

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

If you want to do damage with a bow, you need weapon damage, crit and max stamina.

ranged abilities use spell crit.

PBpsy

Qhival wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

If you want to do damage with a bow, you need weapon damage, crit and max stamina.

ranged abilities use spell crit.

No, only some ranged class/guild abilities use spellcrit. Bow abilities ,hidden blade,silver bolts use weapon crit.Actually even Impale the NB class magicka based ranged execute is a weapon crit based skill

boggie

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Never told you to play with me and i never complain about people dont accept me in groups i was only telling you that a not min\max build works.
I've choosed to run ad a stamina templar most for pvp where it works great and no one complaim about your build........
Clearly to run stamina i got to choose 2stamina weapon in my case DW and bow
But i'm not limited to pvp as a player even if i have a pve only main i want to run pve with my templar and ( you got me here) like you i dont have all day to play and to wait for a group to run a dungeon as a DPS( even if i can push over 8-900 or 1.2k with evil hunter stamina DPS) i choosed to spec the resto staff and with two professions , vampire, pvp lv 20 assault and Support, tree weapons , tree armors and the class skills trees i just dont have enought skills points to have even the destro staff so i've choosed a subpar build to be able to play.

And if you had actually read my post, you will see that in the very first line I made a point of saying that yes, it can work. I never stated otherwise. What I did say, was that regardless of how good you as a player are, resto staff/bow will NEVER and CAN NEVER be as efficient as resto/destro because of how the math works. I'm sorry. That's not up for debate. You can't make 1+1=3 no matter how bad you want it to. If you run with 1 stamina and 1 magicka based weapon, one or both of them will be less powerful.

So even i am exercising my way to play a little more magika management and DPS dont make you a better healer than me..... Like i've told you i dont run trials with this build and i dont complain if you dont want me in your group most of the playerbase is used to wipe 5-6 times in a dungeon run.

The same happened when no one wanted stamina builds around and now you have a stamina player in all the groups.

When i run with my main as a tank most of the times we ( pug groups ) cant complete a dungeon not for the healer but for lack of DPS or experiece ( if your group stay in the green smog in 3rd stage of the arena even if you are the best healer around your group mates will die ) imho

I'm sorry, but yes, if a player has better magicka management due to an optimized build, their character will be a better healer than your character. Not saying the player behind the character is necessarily better, but they have a better toolset to do the job. When forming a pug, that is all you have to go off of. When a player who understands how the math works sees, to use this thread's example, a healer rocking a stamina weapon, their first thought is not going to be "wow, this person is such a bada*** that they can heal effectively even with a gimped build", it's going to be "ok, here's a person with a setup that is already putting them at a disadvantage. Do I really want to gamble my time and possible ability to complete the content I want to complete on their ability to play with a handicap." If I don't personally know the individual, most of the time the answer is going to be no.

As far as the "5-6 wipes in a dungeon run being normal" thing goes... no... no it's not. On a normal dungeon, I see an average of 0-3 deaths (not wipes, deaths) per run. Vet mode 1-2 wipes is average from what I'm seeing (and this is from someone who only pugs and as far as vet dungeons go, is just seeing the content for the first time).

Yes, of course there are mechanics you can't heal through. But to throw that out there and say "well, since I can't save them if they do x, it doesn't matter if my heals are a little underpowered" is just silly.

xaraan

I would have to admit, during a scaled up vet dungeon pledge run, I wouldn't want to fool around with our healer using a bow, or myself using one when I'm healing. Not to sound elitist or anything, and for a lot of content it wouldn't matter, but the bow is contributing very little to overall dps due to not being built for stamina. And you are giving up a couple good resto staff healing DoTs (which are great options to not have to hit breath as often) and the magicka return for doing heavy attacks.

If you want to contribute DPS and are built for healing (ie magicka) then using spear shards is a good option. But we kind of have a thing about our group, where in the past, we ran with tanks and healers that seemed more concerned with doing dps than their role, so we are overly cautious. Once you are filling your role as perfectly as possible, then worry about adding dps, but if costs you any bonuses in doing your role or keeps you from doing needed healing b/c you are doing something else, then you are taking more than you add often.

If you are in a really hard dungeon where they need a good healer, you aren't going to be able to contribute enough to dps to matter anyways. In fact, you may be hurting more than helping - by having others have to worry about their health more often, they might feel like they need to run back up heals, use different potions, or just run around more often to avoid stuff and all that means less dps from the guys build for dps. Same with tank - if they don't tank stuff and people have to worry about aggro from major threats, they aren't going to do as much dps as they could if a tank just did his job and let the dps keep doing what they are built for.

Again, not to say you can't contribute after all that is said and done, but that should be a far second thought and carrying a bow instead of resto staff doesn't convey that.

As to someone saying XX number of wipes was normal in a dungeon run I would say no. If we have one death, we view the run as a sort of failure and if we have a full wipe even more so.

Also, that doesn't leave dps off the hook. Too many dps have tried out cookie cutter builds and/or grinded up and don't know how to actually play the build they are trying. Or they have just done trials and don't realize they can't just stack in a veil with a constant stream of healing and focus on damage the whole time. They have to move, they have to survive - if you are on the ground dead, your dps is zero, and that's not all on the healer or tank. Sh*t happens, gotta be ready for it.

xaraan

Qhival wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

If you want to do damage with a bow, you need weapon damage, crit and max stamina.

ranged abilities use spell crit.

ranged bow abilities use weapon crit

eliisra

Ommamar wrote: »

Maybe the DPS should of moved out of red? Maybe they shouldn't of tried to burn down the boss by themselves? Maybe the healer did try and heal them but it was a special attack that was more then the heal? Or maybe he was under aggro or made a simple mistake? See it is funny because that is the attitude that is prevalent. The healer is always held accountable regardless of what action the other player took.

As to the statement of the mana return with stave use. Yes that is nice but not always feasible to stop target and heavy attack. If you know how to manage potions you can use that path.

If dps never dips their toes in red, if dps never gets aggro, if no one gets hit by special attacks, than you probably wont need a templar healer in the first place...

Templar healers are the babysitters of derp, accept it lol. That's why people invite you to their group. Everything that's not a 1 shot, that's your job to deal with by healing. If you fail to do so, you're accountable as well. Of course not as much as the dps that stood in red 0.5 sec to long or the tank that failed to block a special attack, but you still failed your responsibility slightly.

There are multiple heal heavy VR encounters, where potions aren't enough to keep your magicka up. That's by design, not something players made up to bully bow-healers. You need either Spell Symmetry, dps that spams Necrotic Orb or staff heavy attacks, to keep up constant healing. Staff heavy attacks being the most reliable and least dangerous choice.

But no doubt, you can bow heal normal dungeons. No need for a full time healer in there, I'm usually 50% dps in normal. Might even try it with a bow next time.

timidobserver

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

AlexDougherty

timidobserver wrote: »

I hate to say it, but bow just isn't good for healing. A bow does not bring anything at all to your healing.

I don't think the Bow is supposed to add anything to healing, OP is saying they can heal well enough without having a Staff equiped, the Bow is to snipe mobs while healing.

And if OP can do it, then fair enough. I would probably give the healer the benefit of the doubt, because the mechanics of the game are simple enough, so any healer would have a pretty good idea what they can get away with.

DarkAedin

i am seeing a lot of talk here, and its funny, b/c you are all totally missing the *** point.

this game:
class does not depict your role, your weapon does
so, if you're using a bow, you're not a healer, you're a dps.

if you are a templar trying to heal with class skills only, game mechanics will make you fail. this has to do with the fact that templars have the worst magicka management in the game.

this is common knowledge. pls review last 6 months of posts and learn the game you play.

The_Sadist

I'm all for quirky and different builds but ultimately if you advertise as something which you're obviously not I tend to get annoyed. Likewise, not all builds work in certain veteran dungeons and that's really the reality of it all.

I've had a Templar healer use a great sword who naturally ran into Magicka issues and complained when someone inevitably took damage, a tank who refused to give up his dual wield spec as he 'tanked vet dungeons like this before' and lastly a Sorc DPS who felt the need to use both pets in a vet dungeon and soft cast crystal fragments... he got really mad when I explained that we needed slightly more DPS to get passed the Spindle boss.

I'm not an elitist, but I do PUG dailies and if an individual can't pull their weight in a pledge, or a vet dungeon in general, an issue arises. I'll firstly try and remedy the situation via TS but if all else fails I'll leave the group or drop the individual in question. You can't help those who wants to be a special snowflake and yet are adamant on attempting the more challenging content.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

All I have to say is those that complain on how a person runs a build is a elitist,

Sorry,

but this is a GAME, not the work place or the real world hanging in the balance ALA james Bond / Jason Bourne.. end of story..

My main is a Stamina heavy hybrid Kotaro Atani. Last night me and another guildie, my former Guildmaster of the Queen's Hand Jo'Kazz did the VR5 dungeon of Fungal Grotto for the Undaunted pledge. His Character is VR5 Templar Khajiit using sword and Board and I am VR14 Khajiit Nightblade, and we did the dungeon run how we wanted to play.

And yes we wiped a few times but it was sooo much fun.

Oh yeah, it was just the two of us taking on the whole dungeon..

And we did sneak past some enemies too.. we are Khajiit by the way, and Khajiit like to sneak..

I used a BOW and Dual Wield and hell I didn't even change into a different gear set, I wear the Nights Silence set for the extra sneak speed and other stuff not really good for dungeon delving and yes I died alot...

But you know what? We did it.. YUP

We finished the dungeon, we got our pledge done and Undaunted Key and it was a blast because we were so under-dogged, I mean the main boss had like 87K hit points and we still did it with just the two of us...

it was FUN...

And Kazz didn't care about the gear I was wearing, even though I adamantly told him I should have changed into a different gear set or used a resto staff instead of my bow but he said, next time you can do that if you want, we are here to have fun..

and he is right, if people learned to stop min/maxing all the time and just played the game if would be way better..

One thing I forget to add is that Jo'Kazz only plays in 1st person, regardless it is a Dungeon or PvP, or whatever and he is still good at it. He is also a avid player of Mortal Online and that game is infinitely harder than ESO is because it's a full loot system (if you die in PvP your enemy can steal all of your stuff you have on you, imagine your awesome legendary set pieces going Bye Bye if you die, now can you handle that???..). Kazz has many videos on youtube that can be found here, https://www.youtube.com/user/Zdkazz

oh yeah I forgot to add that there were times that he ran out of magicka and I used funnel Health (Strife morph) to keep him healed so he wouldn't die, so he wasn't the only one doing healing and I was using a Bow..

To the OP, if you were in the Dominion I would gladly have you on my team and I never tell people how they should make their build or what they should wear or use.

You should play how you want to play, you pay for the game and anyone else can go to Cold Harbour or Oblivion, you don't need them.

I want more Jo'Kazz's and people like the OP in the world and less elitist people..

My 2 pieces of Gold..

Rune_Relic

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception.

Yeah, perception is the problem ninety percent of the time, people latch on to simplistic solutions and expect everyone else to follow suit.

Most of the claims that someone is chrating is because they are not following the pre-ordained way of doing it. God help us if we have to think.

BTW Congrats on having a sniper healer in this game, hope your next group is more flexible in it's approach.

Who do you think starts the purely perceptual cookie cutter builds ?
The same people who kick you if you dont use it.

Dont work...PLAY

Ommamar

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard! The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads. Just finished a 4 hour FG attempt that was unsuccessful not to any bad play just to the fact that we couldn't get by the second boss.

I was honestly ready to quit last night not because of any defect to the game although there are minor ones but to the people who insist that things must be played this way or that way. I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception. I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

If the people you're running with are giving you grief then in my opinion you're running with the wrong people, just my 1/2 cent worth.

Here is the crazy thing about how this game is designed. Many times even if it is a guild group it is really a PUG particularly if it is a large trade guild. In other games I generally had a dedicated group that I ran with. In ESO not so much I have many people I communicate constantly with but they are usually above me in level, below me in level or in a different faction which makes it so I can't group with them.

I know DPS is king and seems to dictate what weapon people go with, or in the case of staves for the mana return. I didn't carry a bow with the upper most desire to do DPS although snipe is handy to take out caster and healer mobs at 1/4 or below life. I took it because the use of knock back/stun and snare/off balance are helpful to me and in the end to my group. Yes Templars don't have the best mana recovery but I think that can be overcome with the proper gear. I don't discount the restro stave and have moved to a bow/stave for pledges but still the main heal used is breath of life for reasons already stated. I have no points in stamina (Eeek! What about all the bow damage! <I don't care about DPS>) but have offset that with stamina glyphs, crit potions, and repentance to get quick stamina recovery.

With this build I have run many veteran dungeons and even had success in pvp. There are a couple that have proven difficult, FG being one of those. I don't think the groups I tried it with had anything wrong other then a lack of understanding the mechanics and coordination of what they where doing.

Ommamar

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

All I have to say is those that complain on how a person runs a build is a elitist,

Sorry,

but this is a GAME, not the work place or the real world hanging in the balance ALA james Bond / Jason Bourne.. end of story..

My main is a Stamina heavy hybrid Kotaro Atani. Last night me and another guildie, my former Guildmaster of the Queen's Hand Jo'Kazz did the VR5 dungeon of Fungal Grotto for the Undaunted pledge. His Character is VR5 Templar Khajiit using sword and Board and I am VR14 Khajiit Nightblade, and we did the dungeon run how we wanted to play.

And yes we wiped a few times but it was sooo much fun.

Oh yeah, it was just the two of us taking on the whole dungeon..

And we did sneak past some enemies too.. we are Khajiit by the way, and Khajiit like to sneak..

I used a BOW and Dual Wield and hell I didn't even change into a different gear set, I wear the Nights Silence set for the extra sneak speed and other stuff not really good for dungeon delving and yes I died alot...

But you know what? We did it.. YUP

We finished the dungeon, we got our pledge done and Undaunted Key and it was a blast because we were so under-dogged, I mean the main boss had like 87K hit points and we still did it with just the two of us...

it was FUN...

And Kazz didn't care about the gear I was wearing, even though I adamantly told him I should have changed into a different gear set or used a resto staff instead of my bow but he said, next time you can do that if you want, we are here to have fun..

and he is right, if people learned to stop min/maxing all the time and just played the game if would be way better..

One thing I forget to add is that Jo'Kazz only plays in 1st person, regardless it is a Dungeon or PvP, or whatever and he is still good at it. He is also a avid player of Mortal Online and that game is infinitely harder than ESO is because it's a full loot system (if you die in PvP your enemy can steal all of your stuff you have on you, imagine your awesome legendary set pieces going Bye Bye if you die, now can you handle that???..). Kazz has many videos on youtube that can be found here, https://www.youtube.com/user/Zdkazz

oh yeah I forgot to add that there were times that he ran out of magicka and I used funnel Health (Strife morph) to keep him healed so he wouldn't die, so he wasn't the only one doing healing and I was using a Bow..

To the OP, if you were in the Dominion I would gladly have you on my team and I never tell people how they should make their build or what they should wear or use.

You should play how you want to play, you pay for the game and anyone else can go to Cold Harbour or Oblivion, you don't need them.

I want more Jo'Kazz's and people like the OP in the world and less elitist people..

My 2 pieces of Gold..

Thanks for the support. Mortal Online I remember that game. I was trying to ride a horse someone gave me but kept falling off as I had no skill for it, which apparently looked pretty funny. Eventually I was able to ride it so we went galloping into the wilderness where he shot me took all my stuff then ran off. It was very hard getting any things build up but it was fun for a bit.

Xjcon

Joined a pug last night for vet Spindle and we got to the Gargoyle and couldn't get it below 75% health, was a sad day for the dps.

If people don't want to build so they optimize they shouldn't do veteran dungeons. Being unique for what ever reason is fine, But saying you don't like people for being irritated that others don't want to optimize their builds is idiotic.

Darlgon

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

Ommamar wrote: »

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard! The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads. Just finished a 4 hour FG attempt that was unsuccessful not to any bad play just to the fact that we couldn't get by the second boss.

I was honestly ready to quit last night not because of any defect to the game although there are minor ones but to the people who insist that things must be played this way or that way. I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception. I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

If the people you're running with are giving you grief then in my opinion you're running with the wrong people, just my 1/2 cent worth.

To a certain point.. OP said he has to "reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave"." From that statement alone.. he was using a bow.. and.. a bow.. not a resto staff to heal. That is NOT a healer, that is a DPS Templar.

Sorry.. if I am dying and I dont ever see a healer use a resto staff skill.. I WILL BE PISSED AT THE ID10T TOO. If you are a healer, you should at least be able to SWAP TO A RESTO STAFF. What you do when the group isnt dying is your business..

The blame falls on the OP in thinking that normal pledge runs = Vet level content.. and DPS Templer = healer. They DONT.

Ommamar

I am so happy that you are here to tell me what I think Darlgon! May I ask what class you play? Have you ever played a healer? A Templar? I did not have to do anything I was just interested to look at the argument from others points of view with empirical evidence of my own experience. Result is I don't buy that a Restro stave is required although there is nothing wrong with using one.

manny254

Ommamar wrote: »

I am so happy that you are here to tell me what I think Darlgon! May I ask what class you play? Have you ever played a healer? A Templar? I did not have to do anything I was just interested to look at the argument from others points of view with empirical evidence of my own experience. Result is I don't buy that a Restro stave is required although there is nothing wrong with using one.

I will tell you this then. When I first started this game I intended to play a tank, but in the group of players I ran with there was surplus of tanks. So my 1st experiences of healing where in heavy armor with a resto staff, and an off hand sword and shield. Despite me using 5 heavy we did great on dungeons. My skill over shadowed that the heavy armory really only hindered me as a healer. Nevertheless I was only gimping my self in the healer role, and I didn't see a reason to continue to do so.

So what I would say is no you do not need a resto staff to clear dungeons, but you are only hindering yourself as a healer. It is reasonable for a group to expect the healer to use a healing staff. If you want to play your own way then you need to find a group that accepts you or only play solo.

Honestly though I would not want a healer in my group who is not using a resto staff. It is not elitist it is just smart. If I have to hire someone to cut my lawn do I choose the guy with a lawnmower, or the guy with a pair of scissors?

Darlgon

Ommamar wrote: »

I am so happy that you are here to tell me what I think Darlgon! May I ask what class you play? Have you ever played a healer? A Templar? I did not have to do anything I was just interested to look at the argument from others points of view with empirical evidence of my own experience. Result is I don't buy that a Restro stave is required although there is nothing wrong with using one.

DK healer in light armor, with sword and board and heavy armor in my bags in case i need to off tank. And yes.. a healer.. in ESO, (including entire raids in Cyrodiil), GW2, SWTOR, and back to EQ. And also a templar, but not a VR level one yet.

But that does not mean I am telling you what you think. You did that:

Ommamar wrote: »

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard!

Sorry dude.. you just said the normal pledge was good and you did not respec for a vet dungeon. Means you thought they were the same.

Ommamar wrote: »

The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads.

YES, people expect to see those pretty little numbers floating above their heads. That means they are GETTING HEALED, which you said was your JOB when you said you were a HEALER.

Ommamar wrote: »

I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

You are blaming the harder content on the fact that you did not go into the dungeon as a healer.

Leeric

DarkAedin wrote: »

i am seeing a lot of talk here, and its funny, b/c you are all totally missing the *** point.

this game:
class does not depict your role, your weapon does
so, if you're using a bow, you're not a healer, you're a dps.

if you are a templar trying to heal with class skills only, game mechanics will make you fail. this has to do with the fact that templars have the worst magicka management in the game.

this is common knowledge. pls review last 6 months of posts and learn the game you play.

That whole last part is so wrong I'm actually shocked you thought it was correct. This game has changed so much in 6 months even referencing to go look over the last 6 months to "learn" anything is laughable. Especially when it comes to weapons and class balancing.