Can't heal with a bow!

Ommamar

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard! The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads. Just finished a 4 hour FG attempt that was unsuccessful not to any bad play just to the fact that we couldn't get by the second boss.

I was honestly ready to quit last night not because of any defect to the game although there are minor ones but to the people who insist that things must be played this way or that way. I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception. I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

Gyudan

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

ers101284b14_ESO

People are like that in almost every MMO. 1 Meta build per class or GTFO. This one has a much more open system and way more meta builds. I have noticed Pug groups care more than guild groups. Had a pug healer the other day and we died twice on a boss. He cussed us for being terrible and said he couldn't deal with such a bad group with terrible builds. He left we got a new healer and passed it the first try.

Anyway away from the rambling the Meta builds don't always matter sometimes It's about who's on the other end. It's not the end game because I have seen some crap builds with good players who clear anything thrown at them. It's the playerbase thinking it has to be like other MMO's.

PBpsy

Gyudan wrote: »

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

Not to mention the most important thing needed for a good healer. Resto staff heavy attack magicka returns for continuous healing.
The point is that if you are going to fill a role in hard end game content you should do it well.

nerevarine1138

PBpsy wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

Not to mention the most important thing needed for a good healer. Resto staff heavy attack magicka returns for continuous healing.
The point is that if you are going to fill a role in hard end game content you should do it well.

Well, if you actually take the time to read the OP, it sounds like he's figured out a solid build for healing with a bow equipped. The main issue it sounds like he's running in to is the old-style MMO mentality that healers are there to fix everyone else's stupidity. This isn't a game where a healer can save you from ignoring the basic mechanics of combat.

Gyudan

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

PBpsy

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

Not to mention the most important thing needed for a good healer. Resto staff heavy attack magicka returns for continuous healing.
The point is that if you are going to fill a role in hard end game content you should do it well.

Well, if you actually take the time to read the OP, it sounds like he's figured out a solid build for healing with a bow equipped. The main issue it sounds like he's running in to is the old-style MMO mentality that healers are there to fix everyone else's stupidity. This isn't a game where a healer can save you from ignoring the basic mechanics of combat.

It seems to me like the OP actually spent 4h and failed at the second boss in FG so I am unsure of how effective that build is.. It does not automatically mean that it is a bad healer since in my experience most failures on that boss are the DPS fault. He said that he managed to heal trough the normal pledges which quite frankly do not require a dedicated healer just a DPS or two with mutagen/funnel health so people praising him doesn't mean much.

A healer can't save you from ignoring mechanics but there are mechanics that involve having a competent healer. For example second boss in FG chaining the tank and the dps having to deal with the boss. It can get messy. Another would be the second boss in Darkshade which I would like to see someone heal trough without a resto.

Also let's be serious even if people mange to always avoid every mechanic without fault every time (which not even the best of the best players are able to do ) good healing is still required for Vet dungeons since there are plenty of unavoidable sources of damage such as adds, unavoidable aoes, people using Spell Symmetry etc.

Robocles

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

Not to mention the most important thing needed for a good healer. Resto staff heavy attack magicka returns for continuous healing.
The point is that if you are going to fill a role in hard end game content you should do it well.

Well, if you actually take the time to read the OP, it sounds like he's figured out a solid build for healing with a bow equipped. The main issue it sounds like he's running in to is the old-style MMO mentality that healers are there to fix everyone else's stupidity. This isn't a game where a healer can save you from ignoring the basic mechanics of combat.

Not as a templar he didn't.

Lizelle

It's cool if you want to play as a bow wielding Templar as DPS. Just don't tell groups you're a healer. This has nothing to do with cookie cutter builds or being elitist. The fact is there is nothing that contributes to the role "Healer" in the bow abilities or passives... And if you're building out stamina to support your DPS in bow instead of Magicka that is going to mean you run out of Magicka and your heals will do less healing. When you're grouping you rely on members of your team to play their role well or the group suffers. It doesn't matter as much for lower level and/or for non-vet content, matters a lot for vet and end game content because there is less margin for error.

DenverRalphy

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

From what you wrote, I suppose you are a templar?

Using a healing staff grants you bonus healing, as well as a wider range of abilities dedicated to healing (combat prayer and healing springs are a must-have imo). If you are full time healer for a dungeon, use a healing staff. If you are a tank, use a shield. If you are a DPS, use anything you want.

Not to mention the most important thing needed for a good healer. Resto staff heavy attack magicka returns for continuous healing.
The point is that if you are going to fill a role in hard end game content you should do it well.

Well, if you actually take the time to read the OP, it sounds like he's figured out a solid build for healing with a bow equipped. The main issue it sounds like he's running in to is the old-style MMO mentality that healers are there to fix everyone else's stupidity. This isn't a game where a healer can save you from ignoring the basic mechanics of combat.

No... what it sounds like is he entered a group with the understanding that he'd be the dedicated healer. There's no "Old style MMO mentality here". It's basic group dynamics that have proven effective time after time. Sure, maybe he does decent healing while equipping a bow... but if the healing needs to be stepped up a notch, ditch the bow and better equip yourself as the healer. There's absolutely nothing in the OP that even remotely suggests that there was anything resembling "everyone else's stupidity".

Sure everybody can play hybrid classes that are somewhat self sufficient. But a group of Jack-of-All-Trades don't come close to the effectiveness of a group built of specific roles.

badmojo

Most of my healing is done with class abilities, but the resto staff heavy attacks are a huge source of magicka. It's only logical that if you're holding a bow, you aren't getting as much magicka as you could. Therefore, you won't be healing on par with the best healers in the game.

This isn't really about sticking to what has been done before, it's about you being the best healer for your group.

How exactly does the bow benefit your role as a healer?

Xjcon

I had a Templar try to heal a vet WS this was someone who used a bow also, I'm not familiar with the Templar healers ability names but that healer would drop a circle under me as a tank, we all know you move a bit during the first boss, then he had to what appeared to be cast another heal. This type of healing lacked the Heals Per Second necessary for this fight. Then he would start shooting the boss with his bow rather then res the dps he let die,

The reason that people think of these builds they seen on the line.... is because these are builds that have been tested to maximize what ever role you are trying to fill. And understandably people hope that others take a little time figuring out if their build will not let the group down.

The ability to be pretty much any role if you carried the right gear with you at all times is for me one of the best features this game has to offer, and I think if you claim to be one role you should strive to be good at it

Woolenthreads

While I don't see any reason why a Healer can't use a bow to do damage, my Healer Templar will never use one.

The Bow gives you a stamina-based damage and several "keep-away" options on its perks, which is ok.

The Restoration Staff gives you a single damage option which will refresh your magicka (from a passive) allowing you to continue with your healing ops and any magicka based attacks. No contest really IMO.

I've seriously been considering Restoration Staff, and that passive ,for all of my characters, for whenever they have to do forced Solo against annoying bosses and minions like harvesters.

drschplatt

If you've figured out a build for healing while using a bow, then good for you. There are a couple of situations in the game where I don't think you'll be able to heal through stuff without a resto staff, but if you find a way to do it, then great.

Robocles

Woolenthreads wrote: »

While I don't see any reason why a Healer can't use a bow to do damage, my Healer Templar will never use one.

The Bow gives you a stamina-based damage and several "keep-away" options on its perks, which is ok.

The Restoration Staff gives you a single damage option which will refresh your magicka (from a passive) allowing you to continue with your healing ops and any magicka based attacks. No contest really IMO.

I've seriously been considering Restoration Staff, and that passive ,for all of my characters, for whenever they have to do forced Solo against annoying bosses and minions like harvesters.

Both staves restore magicka on heavy attacks now... the resto just gets a bonus.

Leeric

You want to be the best or top tier you can't just use whatever....common sense

Ommamar

Interesting so lets see what does shield/one hand passives have to do with healing? They give you survivability if you draw aggro until hopefully the tank notices but they won't improve the heals. What about two Hander? Destro staff? By your logic the only option for a healer to have is a restro stave might as well dual bar it then right?

"It seems to me like the OP actually spent 4h and failed at the second boss in FG so I am unsure of how effective that build is."-PBpsy.
What is funny is that run was after I spent 6k to respec as I was curious about how the Restro stave would work out.

Gyudan wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

Meta builds

This topic is about a healer with a bow. In my opinion this is very unlikely to work.
Bow = Stamina, Weapon damage, Weapon crit
Healing with only class abilities = Magicka, Spell damage, Spell crit
Please let me know if you manage to optimize that and have enough Health to survive a vet dungeon.

Ok how is this all stats into magic. glyphs on major pieces magic, the Atronoch as the chosen constellation, Warlock amulet and ring to put me 3 points from magic regeneration cap. Then magica potions if things get really harry. Along with the two Templar heals place snare, knock back, and snipe on the heal bar. Keep mobile when there is an opportunity to finish off adds particularly casters take it. When you pull aggro use the knockback too create distance and stun the target. Focus on breath of life and staying out of the red.

"I had a Templar try to heal a vet WS this was someone who used a bow also, I'm not familiar with the Templar healers ability names but that healer would drop a circle under me as a tank, we all know you move a bit during the first boss, then he had to what appeared to be cast another heal."-Xjcon

He was likely dropping circle of protection or perhaps rune focus, both raise armor and resists. So what if you have to move out of that area of the buff it will help you survive that instance and in the case of CoP it raises the healing you receive. I am not sure what fight you where on but for the majority of boss fights in the dungeons you have to be mobile. So the HPS you gain from the stave has to be mobile too. Even with the stave equipped Breath of Life, the lowly Templar heal, is my go to just because it goes to the most in need in the shortest amount of time.

"Then he would start shooting the boss with his bow rather then res the dps he let die,"-Xjcon

Maybe the DPS should of moved out of red? Maybe they shouldn't of tried to burn down the boss by themselves? Maybe the healer did try and heal them but it was a special attack that was more then the heal? Or maybe he was under aggro or made a simple mistake? See it is funny because that is the attitude that is prevalent. The healer is always held accountable regardless of what action the other player took.


As to the statement of the mana return with stave use. Yes that is nice but not always feasible to stop target and heavy attack. If you know how to manage potions you can use that path.

OrphanHelgen

If you want to do damage with a bow, you need weapon damage, crit and max stamina, since the more stamina you have, the more weapon damage you will do. As well as medium armor gives 12% bonus weapon damage.

I have never done any healing, but I assume this as well scales with max magicka, spell dmg?.. I know it can crit.. Anyway, light armor gives mackicka advantage. So if you are a healer, and have light armor and use magicka, I dont see how your bow can do any damage at all, so you might as well do damage with the light/heavy attack with a staff, witch actually will do more damage I believe..

The only good thing the bow has for you in this case, is one of the morphs on the snipe skill line. Where you apply a healing debuf on target for 10 sec.


Edit: Sry, this might have been said above.. I didnt read that carefully all comments.

Surfinginhawaii

Ommamar wrote: »

So last night I had two separate groups praise my healing on the normal pledge run through, then curse me for using a bow while a healer. Things got very heated as the first death of course was because of my healing, not the fact that some of the veteran dungeons are just bloody hard! The funny thing is I went ahead and reworked my healer so he can in fact use a restro stave so people can see the pretty green number floating above their heads. Just finished a 4 hour FG attempt that was unsuccessful not to any bad play just to the fact that we couldn't get by the second boss.

I was honestly ready to quit last night not because of any defect to the game although there are minor ones but to the people who insist that things must be played this way or that way. I think this is a very flexible system but people don't want to use it, anything different from the build they saw online is ostracized and cursed at for not conforming to their perception. I think that with how the end game system is being developed it is more likely to lose subscribers then any perception of breakage done by updates.

If the people you're running with are giving you grief then in my opinion you're running with the wrong people, just my 1/2 cent worth.

badmojo

For dungeons, this is my healing routine... I drop Purifying Ritual, pop Radiant Aura, then I sparingly use Healing Springs for small heals and Breath of Life for larger heals. If someone is getting hurt badly and I can't out heal the damage, or if I'm getting aggro, I pop Ward Ally and then continue healing.

During all that I try to tab target an enemy that the DPS is beating on and constantly(without paying much attention) I lay down heavy attacks with the healing staff. On top of that I'm still using magicka potions for most boss battles. Wearing 5 piece Warlock set & 5 piece Oblivions foe.

My second bar is not really used in group dungeons, destro staff with jabs and knock back spear, breath of life, purifying ritual, & circle of protection but COP is used mostly in Cyrodiil, a good tank should already have that covered in group dungeons.

I never feel the need to knock back, snare or lay down any damage while in a group dungeon. The other 3 players should be doing that stuff for you, also my main is a nightblade, so avoiding danger & combat are instinctive reactions at this point. I barely even block unless things get crazy or unavoidable AOEs come into play.

I'm not saying your build isn't viable in group dungeons, it just seems like you're making things way more difficult than they need to be.

Drasn

There are much better DPS options for a templar healer to use. The reason has been stated above BOW = WEAPON DAMAGE/STAMINA/WEAPON CRIT and TEMPLAR HEALS = SPELL DAMAGE/MAGICKA/SPELL CRIT. Keeping that in mind you should be using DPS abilities that also use spell damage/magicka/ spell crit.

The fact that you are using a bow means you are either gimping the bow or gimping the heals.

You also asked what advantage does using a sword shield have to healing over a bow... you can enchant the shield with magicka and that equates to a healing boost. The sword/shield combo would also allow you to pursue specific set bonuses that a single weapon would not. Resto staff would still be the better option, but you asked.

Also, rune focus does not work on anyone other than the caster so if a templar healer ever casts that on a tank it should be taken as a sign.

The real issue however is that you wanted to run a special snowflake build and the group you were with took issue. Best thing to do in that situation is just go your separate ways. They don't want to play with you and you shouldn't get upset about it. You should find a group willing to accept your l33t bow heals and never look back.

Tonnopesce

I do use for pve a resto bow templar healer it is good imo .
Btw you do need the resto staff or you cant heal very good, if you use only templar skills your magika will run out in seconds but since class skills does not benefit from the resto staff passives and viceversa you can use the first bar with the resto staff and resto staff abilities and the second bar with the bow and class abilities usually i use only letal arrow and acid spray in my bow bar + 2 templar skills + inner light and the nova it is very good to help on trash and DPS races you spam a templar skills and bow skills and evryone is happy
Lot of healers have the destro staff in the second bar but since is a staff nobody notice it use a bow and evrybody lose their mind
Bow is better than destro since it scale with stamina if you try to heal with a destro staff and do a little DPS to help the group you will run out of magika in 30 seconds imo

Milf_Hero

I got kicked out of a group before he even saw what I could do with my build. He said that he wouldn't play around with ppl that messed around and played the way the want to with some useless build. Lol. Elitist *** bags. This champion system coming out better allow ppl to be more versatile with their builds. Eff elitist.

ThatHappyCat

As a Templar healer, the only healing skill I use for dungeons (including Vet CoA) is Breath of Life. On the other hand, if you're using a Bow that probably means you have some investment in stamina, which means less magicka for healing; and if you don't have any investment in stamina why don't you use a Destro staff instead? The magicka return from using any staff is also pretty important, especially for Templar healers which lack other significant means of magicka management.

itsBishop

If you equip a bow to do off-dps while healing you're gimping yourself on both accounts. Slot a destro staff on your back bar and toss in pulsar/crushing shock, you'll double your benefit by speccing into weapon damage and your magicka pool will be able to supply the output for both healing and dps. Running around with a hodge-podge stamina and magicka hybrid build while trying to fill a crucial role in a 4-man group is just not going to cut it for the majority of this game's difficult content.

Tonnopesce

itsBishop wrote: »

If you equip a bow to do off-dps while healing you're gimping yourself on both accounts. Slot a destro staff on your back bar and toss in pulsar/crushing shock, you'll double your benefit by speccing into weapon damage and your magicka pool will be able to supply the output for both healing and dps. Running around with a hodge-podge stamina and magicka hybrid build while trying to fill a crucial role in a 4-man group is just not going to cut it for the majority of this game's difficult content.

No need to gimp yourself i can easy swich from full stamina in pvp glass cannon set up 250 WP DMG 60% weapon crit 2300 health 2800 stamina and 1300 magika 5 med 2 heavy into pve set up full magika 135spell DMG 52% spell crit 1200 stamina 2500 health 2800 magika 5 light 2 med or full light
Armor do the difference and if you cast razor caltrops + lethal arrow you can do easy over 250 DPS while healing, you are a healer no need to do over 1k dps and healing.
Or full healers will not exist but they do exist and they work great.

You can help group DPS but if you are not healing you are not useful.

Now you can tell me that you do better and i trust you... But with this set up you can run evry vet dungeon evry dungeon and normal arena (i dont have the time to run vet arena so i dont have tried) you skip trials but is not a great loss imho.


Edit typo..... Still bad i know

snowmanflvb14_ESO

We just did vet FG tonight with 3 NB( 2 bow and 1 DW) and a temp healer. He switched back and forth between his bow and his resto staff we did have 2 deaths on the one boss and that was it the whole run.

Pengeszikra

I run as templar dps with 2h / bow. On bow bar healing skill is repetance which passivly improve my stamina regen pluss give great healing capability without magica use by dead enemies around us. This can be helpfull support against addons, but need to change when face against lone boss.

boggie

I'm not going to say that it can't be done, but as others have pointed out, no matter what skills you pick, it will be less efficient than a resto/destro setup. It's not a matter of opinion. It's cold hard math. You only get so many stat points, and splitting your scaling between 2 different stats is going to mean that 1 or both of the weapons are going to be running with significantly less power behind them. 1h and shield is also viable on the second bar, because it brings benefits outside of scaling (bonuses to block) that compensate for the loss in dps.

Sure, you can complete most of the content in the game with a less-than-ideal build, but for myself and many like me, when I sit down to do a dungeon or any other game content, I have a limited amount of time to do it in. I may not have the luxury of wiping on each boss 5 times. I'm not saying that's what your build would cause a group to do. But keep in mind, unless they are guildmates or friends, these people do not know you. They don't know how good you are as a player. They don't know if you know how to play your build or not. They don't even know if you are really a "healer" or just some disgruntled stam dps who got tired of waiting for a dps opening in a group and picked up a resto staff to try and get in faster (I've had this one happen to me). All they have to go on is the fact that you are running a mixed build. When they say "no, sorry, I'm not going to run with you", they aren't being elitist. They are exercising their right to play the game the way they want.

Tonnopesce

boggie wrote: »

I'm not going to say that it can't be done, but as others have pointed out, no matter what skills you pick, it will be less efficient than a resto/destro setup. It's not a matter of opinion. It's cold hard math. You only get so many stat points, and splitting your scaling between 2 different stats is going to mean that 1 or both of the weapons are going to be running with significantly less power behind them. 1h and shield is also viable on the second bar, because it brings benefits outside of scaling (bonuses to block) that compensate for the loss in dps.

Sure, you can complete most of the content in the game with a less-than-ideal build, but for myself and many like me, when I sit down to do a dungeon or any other game content, I have a limited amount of time to do it in. I may not have the luxury of wiping on each boss 5 times. I'm not saying that's what your build would cause a group to do. But keep in mind, unless they are guildmates or friends, these people do not know you. They don't know how good you are as a player. They don't know if you know how to play your build or not. They don't even know if you are really a "healer" or just some disgruntled stam dps who got tired of waiting for a dps opening in a group and picked up a resto staff to try and get in faster (I've had this one happen to me). All they have to go on is the fact that you are running a mixed build. When they say "no, sorry, I'm not going to run with you", they aren't being elitist. They are exercising their right to play the game the way they want.

Never told you to play with me and i never complain about people dont accept me in groups i was only telling you that a not min\max build works.
I've choosed to run ad a stamina templar most for pvp where it works great and no one complaim about your build........
Clearly to run stamina i got to choose 2stamina weapon in my case DW and bow
But i'm not limited to pvp as a player even if i have a pve only main i want to run pve with my templar and ( you got me here) like you i dont have all day to play and to wait for a group to run a dungeon as a DPS( even if i can push over 8-900 or 1.2k with evil hunter stamina DPS) i choosed to spec the resto staff and with two professions , vampire, pvp lv 20 assault and Support, tree weapons , tree armors and the class skills trees i just dont have enought skills points to have even the destro staff so i've choosed a subpar build to be able to play.

So even i am exercising my way to play a little more magika management and DPS dont make you a better healer than me..... Like i've told you i dont run trials with this build and i dont complain if you dont want me in your group most of the playerbase is used to wipe 5-6 times in a dungeon run.

The same happened when no one wanted stamina builds around and now you have a stamina player in all the groups.

When i run with my main as a tank most of the times we ( pug groups ) cant complete a dungeon not for the healer but for lack of DPS or experiece ( if your group stay in the green smog in 3rd stage of the arena even if you are the best healer around your group mates will die ) imho

zaria

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

People are like that in almost every MMO. 1 Meta build per class or GTFO. This one has a much more open system and way more meta builds. I have noticed Pug groups care more than guild groups. Had a pug healer the other day and we died twice on a boss. He cussed us for being terrible and said he couldn't deal with such a bad group with terrible builds. He left we got a new healer and passed it the first try.

Anyway away from the rambling the Meta builds don't always matter sometimes It's about who's on the other end. It's not the end game because I have seen some crap builds with good players who clear anything thrown at them. It's the playerbase thinking it has to be like other MMO's.

Funny we had the same with a pug tank yesterday.
Veteran fungal, VR9 tank had to leave, healer found new VR14 tank far harder to heal than VR9. That is ok, he might not be used to tanking (dps who takes up tanking to get more pug runs)
That is not acceptable is to then start talking ***, sorry this don't work and just port out is ok.
Even more fun then the other 3 are guild on teamspeak.