Is there a dominant class in PvP?

Vahrokh

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

naturn wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Dk is the best because he can sustain the most damage and Cyrodiil has a lot of damage. I think 1v1(which isnt official) is best for sorc+ they are really good in cyrodiil so ovverall id say sorc.

Love the laughing man!

Sorc is op? ROFL What drugs are being dispensed in your neighborhood? lol
Sorcs are vanishing into the masses of dks. Look at the number of DKs in the game now. Sorcs are range fighters. With bow so powerful and stam builds coming in with nerfs to magic, you may have to label sorcs endangered species and have special zones of protection for them before they become extinct.

The incredible happened. 2 months ago we were six sorcs competing for 3 trial spots. And more for other trials! Now there's just 1 relatively fresh VR14 sorc left and me, probably quitting myself. I have to always show up to every trial even those I can't care the less to attend to (I have all gear) else the guild can't do trials any more.

Funny, isn't it? After all, being only useful for pressing "R" twice (cast negate magic ultimate) per trial, is not exactly what people find a compelling reason to pay a sub.

k2blader

Armitas wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Those who move from ranged to melee can still use their class damagers with their melee skills. A DK that moves from melee to range cannot.

I'll trade you my class damagers (Crystal Frag, Vel Curse, Endless Fury) for Reflective Scale and Green Dragon Blood. Deal?

Sure I'll reflect crystal shards with defensive posture, and heal with my resto staff. Or maybe you could use defensive posture instead and reflect crystal frags right back at me which will go through my reflect while also popping curse and fury. Nah it's easier to nerf DK than change a build, and lets not forget that sorcs have their own ability to absorb spell projectiles for 6.5s.

Re. defensive posture, this is just my experience as a low VR sorc: since the last big patch, I started experiencing a bug with defensive posture such that even after casting defensive posture, my crystal shards would sometimes be reflected back at me from DKs. Because of that I find defensive posture currently useless; to add to that, it costs a fair amount of precious stamina which sorcs are naturally low on and will need to conserve for the inevitable talons spam. Curse and Fury are fairly weak attacks against any class, let alone a DK. And yes, Ball of Lightning absorbs spell projectiles, but what frequently used DK spell projectiles would that mitigate significantly? Also it is not difficult for a DK to move right back on a sorc who has BoL'd once. If the sorc has used it twice or more, that means his damage-dealing potential is decreased due to the high magicka cost of using BoL and/or he is simply trying to get away. Try playing a sorc the way you think it can be played against DKs and you'll see what I'm talking about..

seancaputo_ESO

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

What blows my mind is many people in this thread want a toon to excel in something it's just not skilled to excel in... Yes, every toon can use a Stamina Weapon and Skill - but that does not mean the toon will excel in it.

Read the Magika skills, you will see where the toon excels.

I play all three of these toons at the VR level and from Beta --- PVP

A DK cant do what a NB can do that a Sorc can do played correctly.

We had this problem with some of our Guildies -- I want to be a Tank NB -- Yeah can you do it, but your not going to be as good as a DK.

I want to be a Sorc Tank, yeah you can do it, but...

I can run any of my three toons and have the same Kill to Death Ratio.

If I am looking to Gank and Play from the Outside, or Just Blow People off the Walls -- My NB flat out DESTROYS toons. No DK, SORC or Temp will survive being ganked. When Endo and I are both NB's -- we laugh our @ss's off going 200 and 3. 200 Kills with 3 Deaths.

If I want complete mobility, with Max Damage on the Run -- My Sorc will Nuke and Heal the Team. LOVE IT

And my DragonK - Yeah, can play many roles, but I play Light Armor Shield First in Fight Damage and Mid Fight Healing.

If you play any of these toons, they are a nightmare in their world. But if you want to play the toon to their WEAKEST points --- Stamina Skills -- Then *** up a storm. I will keep using my Soul Gems to pick you off the ground.

sagitter

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Dk ofc, just take the bounty kill dk quest and you ll finish it really soon.
In order, dk sorc/nb,temp

Vizier

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Armitas wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There are not dominant classes, just dominant players.

The fact the vast majority of dominant players play dragonknights is just a funny coincidence.

I think that may be due to the fact that DK's are far easier to play making even non dominant players appear dominant. That and we have excellent DK player support that regularly posts builds which help new DKs get better faster.

So..what? They are far easier to play yet they are not dominant. That's what you're saying? The contortions in reason are amusing to watch.

Could it be Dragon Knights are easier to play because they are WTF I only need to know three things FTW DOMINANT CLASS? (face palm)

Pyatra

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Armitas wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

lack of ranged in class does not = lack of ranged.... DK has best of all worlds with no weaknesses.


its pretty clear by the results of the poll so far, that DKs are around 10x more universally powerful in PVP than other classes.

That is why I have said they have no ranged "Class" abilities. No weakness? How about melee? A DK using a bow will not also be able to sustain a melee barrage while also blocking. If the only thing in your build is range pew pew then yes he has no weakness, but not innately, only because his opponents build is insufficient.

actually thats untrue. I can sustain heavy and all melee barrage from 10-12 players with my bow on, using Magma armor, fragmented shield, and dragonblood.

yeah by using an ultimate that cuts the damage out almost entirely. If you are casting frag shield and dragon blood you are not attacking, you are buffing and healing. You can sustain it for a while but you are not a threat unless you attack. Eventually you will run out of magicka in a stamina build and be overtaken.

Pyatra wrote: »

I want this deal too. You can even have Twilight Matriarch.

No way that sucker takes 2 skill slots to use. I wouldn't even give you inferno for that, and I have no points in inferno.

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Yeah that's all dandy except they are incredibly difficult to take down in melee range. Compare the DK to a nightblade. It's no contest, they simply have so much more defense and way more effective heals. Even their AoE's are better.

And yet NBs kill DKs solo all the time. One NB even killed a sitting EMP DK Vampire several times in a 1v1. He goes 50/50 with that same DK when on his DK.

Ok, ok. New deal. We give you TM with lasers on it's frickin head AND Rune Cage. For 1 second off your Flappy Flap. You lose 1 second, we gain a 1 second flappy flap.

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

LETS NERF STEALTH MORE CAUSE DK'S R FINE!

AlexDougherty

Templar is the dominant class in PvP

I still say Templar.

My Templar may not have the damage output of my DK, but he has much more survivability. He can renew himself much more easily. Now this may not help him much in PVP, but it means he can survive much better in PVE.

Admittedly I would rather PVP with a DK, unless I'm in a group, wherein Templars can turn the battle around.

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Alex ^^^^ why have you voted templer when saying I would rather PVP with dk. This is a PVP vote and has nothing to do with how effective you feel you templer is in pve lol

Gorthax

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

If you didn't vote DK then you must play a DK lol. When every scrub and crap player can play a DK and be a god as long as they follow the cookie cutter build then you KNOW something is wrong (not saying everyone who plays the cliche sword and board dps healer DK is a scrub or crappy. I'm saying people who suck at the game can roll a DK and be better than everyone who has invested time in learning how to play a specific role properly or to the beat of their ability)

AlexDougherty

Templar is the dominant class in PvP

Spangla wrote: »

Alex ^^^^ why have you voted templer when saying I would rather PVP with dk. This is a PVP vote and has nothing to do with how effective you feel you templer is in pve lol

Ok, my bad.

Thechemicals

Sorcerer is the dominant class in PvP

Thread quickly became moans, tears, and bad manners.

Chesimac

There is no dominant class in PvP

I have to say dk is a little ahead but balance is closer than a lot of you think. Smallish nerfs on reflective scales and gdb would be enough for me

reften

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There are no dominant classes, just dominant players.

Of course.
And I'm sure the leader-boards prove what you're saying right?

But I guess if there was a massive gap between DK players' AP and the other classes, that would just be coincidence right?

But I mean, it could just be because DKs are "easy to play", right? That's why there's a difference, bad players find it easy to be good with a DK?

Oh…
Could that be because DK's are OP?

What do you think leaderboards represent? You can get to the top of the leader boards sitting in bloodport zone all day. If you want a more accurate description of who is 1:1 more dominant look into legends.

The learning curve of a class does not make it OP, it just makes it easier to learn.

If I were you I would review what I said and keep my eye out for two straw man fallacies.
Done that? Kay here's my response:

Armitas wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There are no dominant classes, just dominant players.

Of course.
And I'm sure the leader-boards prove what you're saying right?

But I guess if there was a massiv e gap between DK players' AP and the other classes, that would just be coincidence right?

But I mean, it could just be because DKs are "easy to play", right? That's why there's a difference, bad players find it easy to be good with a DK?

Oh…
Could that be because DK's are OP?

The learning curve of a class does not make it OP, it just makes it easier to learn.

This is your first straw man fallacy: You got me wrong - I'm not saying that the easy learning curve of DKs make them OP, I'm saying DKs are OP and because of that they have an easy learning curve. It's easy to good with a class that is already better than everyone else. While I'm on this point, this was in response to what this person said:

Armitas wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There are not dominant classes, just dominant players.

The fact the vast majority of dominant players play dragonknights is just a funny coincidence.

I think that may be due to the fact that DK's are far easier to play making even non dominant players appear dominant. That and we have excellent DK player support that regularly posts builds which help new DKs get better faster.

So I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth there

That out of the way though…

Armitas wrote: »

Nihili wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

There are no dominant classes, just dominant players.

Of course.
And I'm sure the leader-boards prove what you're saying right?

But I guess if there was a massive gap between DK players' AP and the other classes, that would just be coincidence right?

But I mean, it could just be because DKs are "easy to play", right? That's why there's a difference, bad players find it easy to be good with a DK?

Oh…
Could that be because DK's are OP?

What do you think leaderboards represent? You can get to the top of the leader boards sitting in bloodport zone all day. If you want a more accurate description of who is 1:1 more dominant look into legends.

This is your second straw man fallacy: We're not talking about 1v1s - we're talking about PvP here. And so no matter what happens in one little dueling guild, we don't care because we'll have to look at the facts that represent PvP in its entirety - these being the leader-boards. And if you "can get to the top of the leader boards sitting in bloodport zone all day" - then I'm assuming you're argument here is based on people are actually doing this and getting to the top of the leader-boards.
Which is ridiculous.

Lastly… the poll really isn't in your favor here, bro.

That is not straw manning. When you post a sarcastic troll post with little information expect that people will not understand what you are saying. If you want to make a point people understand don't troll and don't be sarcastic.

Secondly if you are going to use terms like strawman don't also "appeal to the majority" in the same post.

Addressing your points.

• Being OP does not necessitate a high learning curve. That is non sequitur. It's also question begging to say they are OP first, then to say that because they are OP they have an easier learning curve, therefore they are OP.
  
• PvP Stand for Player vs Player. A 1v1 is a player vs a player. That is actually PvP even though that is not your prefered style of PvP. As evidenced by the bloodporting the leaderboards are not an accurate representation of domination. The leaderboards are a representation of AP earned received.

It's a poll, the poll doesn't support you, so you get esoteric in justifying why the poll is wrong.

Hipster obstinate trolling is the worst kind of trolling.

Esoteric? What have I said that is esoteric? I have not said the poll is wrong. The poll represents the amount of people that believe DKs are dominant. Unless people are mistakenly voting the poll is not wrong.

Now if you think the amount of people that think DKs are dominant means that they are dominant, then... wow. And if you think 50 people is statistically significant then double wow.

Anything beyond the available proof is subjective and esoteric to those who simply refuse to believe what information is available. That is being obstinate.

huh?

Leaderboards are proof DK are dominant. But who cares, I like my NB and the challenge...

Armitas

There is no dominant class in PvP

k2blader wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Those who move from ranged to melee can still use their class damagers with their melee skills. A DK that moves from melee to range cannot.

I'll trade you my class damagers (Crystal Frag, Vel Curse, Endless Fury) for Reflective Scale and Green Dragon Blood. Deal?

Sure I'll reflect crystal shards with defensive posture, and heal with my resto staff. Or maybe you could use defensive posture instead and reflect crystal frags right back at me which will go through my reflect while also popping curse and fury. Nah it's easier to nerf DK than change a build, and lets not forget that sorcs have their own ability to absorb spell projectiles for 6.5s.

Re. defensive posture, this is just my experience as a low VR sorc: since the last big patch, I started experiencing a bug with defensive posture such that even after casting defensive posture, my crystal shards would sometimes be reflected back at me from DKs. Because of that I find defensive posture currently useless; to add to that, it costs a fair amount of precious stamina which sorcs are naturally low on and will need to conserve for the inevitable talons spam. Curse and Fury are fairly weak attacks against any class, let alone a DK. And yes, Ball of Lightning absorbs spell projectiles, but what frequently used DK spell projectiles would that mitigate significantly? Also it is not difficult for a DK to move right back on a sorc who has BoL'd once. If the sorc has used it twice or more, that means his damage-dealing potential is decreased due to the high magicka cost of using BoL and/or he is simply trying to get away. Try playing a sorc the way you think it can be played against DKs and you'll see what I'm talking about..

A sorc should bolt out of talons, not roll out. Even DK reflect is affected by the bug you mention. Reflect would do nothing against DK skills with the exception of allowing you to attack with crystal shards. The guy wanted to trade his skills for a reflect and yet he already had an absorb and a reflect. That is what I am referencing. Invade does not do much damage, you can block it while casting, it gives you a warning that it's coming, and you cannot invade while rooted, and you have your own root.

Vizier wrote: »

So..what? They are far easier to play yet they are not dominant. That's what you're saying? The contortions in reason are amusing to watch.

Could it be Dragon Knights are easier to play because they are WTF I only need to know three things FTW DOMINANT CLASS? (face palm)

Again, we have been over this a multitude of times, stop telling me what I am saying. Your contortions are not amusing to watch.

Pyatra wrote: »

Ok, ok. New deal. We give you TM with lasers on it's frickin head AND Rune Cage. For 1 second off your Flappy Flap. You lose 1 second, we gain a 1 second flappy flap.

Lasers? You got yourself a deal mister.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

Edit: redundant.

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

The % distribution of this poll would have,

Elected a President of the US
Taken Scotland out of United Kingdom.
Is nearly double the winning margin of the British election in 2009
In fact is higher than any margin any British party has been elected with in over 100 years.
Was higher than the deciding yes vote in the houses of parliament that took Britain to war in Iraq.

However ZOS still ignores the clear fact that DK's are massively PVP dominant.

Spangla

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

xd quite funny:)

FluffiestOne

Nightblade is the dominant class in PvP

Nightblades are the most versatile and mobile class. Easily best.

Bramir

There is no dominant class in PvP

Before the vampire fixes, vampire DKs were plainly a tier or two above everyone else. This problem has been fixed and I think the classes are balanced well enough at the moment...

ToRelax

Situational, but this:

DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

is nonsense.

Sorcs are overall weakest class atm but that would mostly mean equally skilled sorc vs DK/NB -> DK/NB wins (sorc is not bad vs temp), or you won't see many sorcs doing "1vX" . Sorcs have no working heal and stamina problems, have to use streak a lot to be at least mobile. /edit : As I wrote NB lacks in aoe - that is compared to templar and especially DK, sap essence is till much better than all the sorcerer's aoe damage.

NB are strongest class in dueling atm imo and sure they are "good" gankers but they lack in aoe. They have no direct heal and no class shield but the (although broken) cloak and the life drain skills still give them good sustain (not speaking about "gank builds" or similar things some "PvPers" expect to be OP...).

Templar is very good as a stamina build now and crucial in group PvP due to their direct burst heal. Blazing shield gives both aoe and extra sustain and if you dont watch your stamina closely they will stunlock you with Aedric Spear skills.

DK had indeed strong aoe damage and CC and high sustain yet lack in their mobility. A good DK is close to unbeatable, allowing them to survive a long time within an enemy zerg (noobs, not zergballs who at least know what *** they fabricate) and eventually kill some noobs who will then cry in /zone /guild and forum... wings are usually crucial in this.

/edit2 : typo

Ifthir_ESO

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

pretty much most of us agree dk is op

Bramir

There is no dominant class in PvP

ToRelax wrote: »

Situational, but this:

DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

is nonsense.

Sorcs are overall weakest class atm but that would mostly mean equally skilled sorc vs DK/NB -> DK/NB wins (sorc is not bad vs temp), or you won't see many sorcs doing "1vX" . Sorcs have no working heal and stamina problems, have to use streak a lot to be at least mobile. /edit : As I wrote NB lacks in aoe - that is compared to templar and especially DK, sap essence is till much better than all the sorcerer's aoe damage.

NB are strongest class in dueling atm imo and sure they are "good" gankers but they lack in aoe. They have no direct heal and no class shield but the (although broken) cloak and the life drain skills still give them good sustain (not speaking about "gank builds" or similar things some "PvPers" expect to be OP...).

Templar is very good as a stamina build now and crucial in group PvP due to their direct burst heal. Blazing shield gives both aoe and extra sustain and if you dont watch your stamina closely they will stunlock you with Aedric Spear skills.

DK had indeed strong aoe damage and CC and high sustain yet lack in their mobility. A good DK is close to unbeatable, allowing them to survive a long time within an enemy zerg (noobs, not zergballs who at least no what *** they fabricate) and eventually kill some noobs who will then cry in /zone /guild and forum... wings are usually crucial in this.

Sorcerers may be falling behind in dps (I had to switch to OP snipe spam because I don't have another good option), but I do not feel weak as a healer. Sorcerers do not have a direct heal as a class skill, but the magicka bonuses/reductions make heavy armor healing builds viable. The mobility from streak should not be underestimated, as it not only provides distance, but the direction you went is not always obvious. That said, aren't sorcerers supposed to be nuking people?

Sanct16

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

EU Top 100 Leaderboards Thornblade:
24 DK
24 Sorc
27 NB
25 Templar


Maybe the average Dks performs a bit better than the average player of a another class. But a good player will do great with all classes. Moreover PvP isnt just all about 1vX. I admit that DKs skills may be the best for that although imo NBs and Templars can be good 1vX tanks aswell. But if you really want to be effective you need a group and thats what the game is and should be balanced for. In a group you need all classes. NBs have the best dps and veil of opness, sorcs have negates, the best ultimate by miles ingame without any doubt, Dks have Talons and Banners, Templars are the best healers and the Healing Ultimates keep you alive. You really dont want to miss out any of those.

Thechemicals

Sorcerer is the dominant class in PvP

Dragon Knight is superman and Templar is green lantern. Everyone else can pick a superhero with no super powers.

B11zzard

Dragon Knight is the dominant class in PvP

DK is OP

demonlkojipub19_ESO

There is no dominant class in PvP

Haven't similar threads been done with similar results... should know better what people will pick in these polls.

Messy1

A dominant class is situational i.e. DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

Bramir wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Situational, but this:

DKs are good against in mass melees, Sorcerers are good at kiting/gank, Nightblades are only good at ganking, Templars are the best healers.

is nonsense.

Sorcs are overall weakest class atm but that would mostly mean equally skilled sorc vs DK/NB -> DK/NB wins (sorc is not bad vs temp), or you won't see many sorcs doing "1vX" . Sorcs have no working heal and stamina problems, have to use streak a lot to be at least mobile. /edit : As I wrote NB lacks in aoe - that is compared to templar and especially DK, sap essence is till much better than all the sorcerer's aoe damage.

NB are strongest class in dueling atm imo and sure they are "good" gankers but they lack in aoe. They have no direct heal and no class shield but the (although broken) cloak and the life drain skills still give them good sustain (not speaking about "gank builds" or similar things some "PvPers" expect to be OP...).

Templar is very good as a stamina build now and crucial in group PvP due to their direct burst heal. Blazing shield gives both aoe and extra sustain and if you dont watch your stamina closely they will stunlock you with Aedric Spear skills.

DK had indeed strong aoe damage and CC and high sustain yet lack in their mobility. A good DK is close to unbeatable, allowing them to survive a long time within an enemy zerg (noobs, not zergballs who at least no what *** they fabricate) and eventually kill some noobs who will then cry in /zone /guild and forum... wings are usually crucial in this.

Sorcerers may be falling behind in dps (I had to switch to OP snipe spam because I don't have another good option), but I do not feel weak as a healer. Sorcerers do not have a direct heal as a class skill, but the magicka bonuses/reductions make heavy armor healing builds viable. The mobility from streak should not be underestimated, as it not only provides distance, but the direction you went is not always obvious. That said, aren't sorcerers supposed to be nuking people?

Yes, when i first started playing i was like oh sorcerers will be the ones throwing lightning bolts and hurling meteors at keeps and stuff. I think a great equalizer for sorcerers would be . . . Allow them to have an ability that levitates troops up a wall, but give it a nice long cool down so it can't be spammed. I mean the DK is the only class that i am aware of that can jump from a ground position up onto a wall. I know ESO wants to fight traditional roles in fantasy genre but some things make sense.

Joy_Division

There is no dominant class in PvP

I amazed after more than 6 months people haven't figured out how to kill let alone handle a DK.

Armitas

There is no dominant class in PvP

Spangla wrote: »

The % distribution of this poll would have,

Elected a President of the US
Taken Scotland out of United Kingdom.
Is nearly double the winning margin of the British election in 2009
In fact is higher than any margin any British party has been elected with in over 100 years.
Was higher than the deciding yes vote in the houses of parliament that took Britain to war in Iraq.

However ZOS still ignores the clear fact that DK's are massively PVP dominant.

I don't think we are electing who is the dominant class in PvP.