PvP reduced to lethal arrow

Darthryan

Hmm I thought we had poisin restinence glyphs that we could add to our armor?

Baphomet wrote: »

I just want to applaud the brilliant mind (yes, it has actually been verified that there is only one person doing skill balance at ZOS) that decided to push through the changes to snipe.

- It takes less time to cast than its magical counterparts dark flare and crystal shards.
- It can deal way more damage than its aforementioned counterparts (thanks to the inflated weapon damage soft cap)
- It can be used at much greater distance than other ranged attacks.
- It can be animation cancelled and partly "block-casted"
- It can be used as a sneak attack.
- There are no innate resistances to its morph lethal arrow which deals poison damage.

Good work!

Oh wait we do!

Grim13

Stop your *** whining.

Block
Dodgeroll
Stack shields
Stay out of range of keep walls
Poison resistance
..and the good 'ol fashioned "run away"!




Sheesh.

Rylana

Was on my templar for a good chunk of the night

them arrows are real

got back on the dk and flapflapped to over 100 kills and then logged out

but damn, my poor templar was just getting mauled by snipes. even with shields up it was like LOLNO

kkravaritieb17_ESO

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

Rylana

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Grim13

Rylana wrote: »

show previous quotes

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Maulkin

Rylana wrote: »

show previous quotes

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Wait what? The healing debuff stacks from the same skill but different players? Are you sure you didn't get hit by a meatbag?

Debuffs from same skill are not supposed to stack I'm pretty certain. If three players use Pierce Armor (S&B, 1st skill) on the same target, or Engulfing Flames the armor debuff doesn't stack.

This warrants some testing.

Rylana

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

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Rylana wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Wait what? The healing debuff stacks from the same skill but different players? Are you sure you didn't get hit by a meatbag?

Debuffs from same skill are not supposed to stack I'm pretty certain. If three players use Pierce Armor (S&B, 1st skill) on the same target, or Engulfing Flames the armor debuff doesn't stack.

This warrants some testing.

Something is definitely stacking, and the only thing my death recap showed was three lethal arrows from three different players right before i dropped like a sack of potatoes.

I had hit the heal on instinct, saw it flytext for 14, and greyscreen immediately after. Killing blow was a light attack from sniper number 2.

So nothing else hit me.

Ezareth

Columba wrote: »

It can be easily blocked or dodged.

Along with every other projectile in the game yet unlike magical projectiles it can't be absorbed or reflected except by a DK.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

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Rylana wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Wait what? The healing debuff stacks from the same skill but different players? Are you sure you didn't get hit by a meatbag?

Debuffs from same skill are not supposed to stack I'm pretty certain. If three players use Pierce Armor (S&B, 1st skill) on the same target, or Engulfing Flames the armor debuff doesn't stack.

This warrants some testing.

This has always been the case. This is the chief way any group on Haderus was able to kill me as emperor. 3 NBs with lethal arrow = almost zero healing. It's additive.

Maulkin

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

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mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

The biggest problem with lethal arrow to my mind and in general is the stacking of the healing debuffs which makes it almost impossible for me as a healer to heal my group members. I must spend all my magica spamming purge to even remotely try save somebody or myself. Just like meatbags and darkflare spamming. Annoying as hell.

I cast a honor the dead heal by reflex when i took a massive chunk hit (was apparently three separate lethal arrows). 14 heal. No BS

lol @ 14 heal. Usually does over 1000

Wait what? The healing debuff stacks from the same skill but different players? Are you sure you didn't get hit by a meatbag?

Debuffs from same skill are not supposed to stack I'm pretty certain. If three players use Pierce Armor (S&B, 1st skill) on the same target, or Engulfing Flames the armor debuff doesn't stack.

This warrants some testing.

This has always been the case. This is the chief way any group on Haderus was able to kill me as emperor. 3 NBs with lethal arrow = almost zero healing. It's additive.

I can't test this at the moment, but if that's the case this is a bug. A while back they fixed a bunch of abilities where debuffs would stack. I remember this much for my DK. From Patch Notes 1.4.3:

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Burning Breath: The armor reduction debuff from this ability will no longer stack.

Link:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/131752/patch-notes-v1-4-3

As far as I'm aware, you should only stack debuffs from different sources.

RinaldoGandolphi

Snipe is fine as is and im a Sorc in LA with a stick that rarely gets killed with snipe anymore or the bow for that matter.

Snipe can be countered:

1. Dodge rolling when you hear bow sound.
2. Running Raidant MageLight on your bar.
3. Running Efficent Purge to remove any poison DOTS

At worst nearly everyone should be running Purge, its a must if you want to stay alive longer then 1 minute, so thats a gimme, RML is not required, but really helps survive the stealth snipe shots, but Dodge is a sure fire to avoid the damage all together.

kkravaritieb17_ESO

Yeah but when you get hit by 3-4 different lethal arrows you cant and wont have enough time to purge all 4 different healing debuffs and heal yourself before you die. Stacking different healing debuffs from the same type of attack is plainly stupid and should be changed.

Azarul

I do agree that Snipe should not be a sneak attack. Other than that all is good.

Erlex

I could see the poison morph no longer being a sneak attack, but the other keeping sneak attack ability. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with the skill, including the damage, except the fact that its a heal debuff that can be sneak attacked (from range).

Also if the healing debuff is stacking that is a bug and should be fixed before 1.6.

Thechemicals

Snipe is awesome. Expecially against a poor sucker trying to keep up with you with impulse.

Maulkin

Erlex wrote: »

I could see the poison morph no longer being a sneak attack, but the other keeping sneak attack ability. I don't think there is anything at all wrong with the skill, including the damage, except the fact that its a heal debuff that can be sneak attacked (from range).

Also if the healing debuff is stacking that is a bug and should be fixed before 1.6.

I will test it this evening, but all I know for a fact is that the healing debuff stacks with a diseased weapon enchant. A gold glyph of disease provides *I think* around 10% reduction in healing taken to push the total to about 60%. This is of course normal, nothing untoward there.

However, I've been diseased a few times by a single player in a duel and could not get any heals off without purging, so something is stacking somewhere to a huge degree.

Armitas

This heal debuff stacking needs to go.

Tolce

Heal debuff is the only thing saving this game right now. Yeah the arrows suck but without them it would become elder healers online, which would be more annoying.

Etaniel

I love how people are saying "stop qq stamina builds are finally good deal with it". No, stamina builds are still not as good as magicka builds, but now they have a "oneshot" option to compensate for the fact they are useless when fighting out of stealth. Snipe needs to be nerfed, but stamina biulds need to be buffed overall

Maulkin

Tolce wrote: »

Heal debuff is the only thing saving this game right now.

You're absolutely right, this game is finished without heal debuff stacking

/rollseyes

Manoekin

Tolce wrote: »

Heal debuff is the only thing saving this game right now. Yeah the arrows suck but without them it would become elder healers online, which would be more annoying.

Get to work Zeni.

Seriously though, heal debuffs are fine to the point where your heal literally reads 0 because your ally has 100% heal debuff. Capping it at 50 is the best idea. Healing debuffs are too spammable in this game, and there's even a weapon enchantment that any player can use to put on a heal debuff. Meanwhile there's about 2 ways to remove your heal debuff and one has a limited range while the other has a limited range and is only a synergy that is just negated in seconds anyway. Give me a remove debuff weapon enchant and a ground target aoe debuff with a cast time on it. That's fair.

Armitas

Tolce wrote: »

Heal debuff is the only thing saving this game right now. Yeah the arrows suck but without them it would become elder healers online, which would be more annoying.

Wait, how did we get from lethal arrow is broken to lethal arrow arrow users are heroes that are saving the game from peril?

Armitas

Manoekin wrote: »

Give me a remove debuff weapon enchant...

^This please.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Said 1.1s snipe cast time was a bad idea the moment it hit pts and the 5% reduced damage was nothing compared to the sustainable damage of it.

I also said that for pve it wouldn't be a big deal, but for pvp damage vs player will need to curbed down or else it will just result in too many bows in cyrodil and snipe spam.

Zos should know that people will flock to whatever op systems they put in place, and, especially with the horrible bug in the 2h line, its why people flock to the bow. But they dont. They shouldnt have gone past 1.5s with snipes cast time.

Columba

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah but when you get hit by 3-4 different lethal arrows you cant and wont have enough time to purge all 4 different healing debuffs and heal yourself before you die. Stacking different healing debuffs from the same type of attack is plainly stupid and should be changed.

Are you saying that 4 archers shouldn't be able to kill you???!

Soulac

I still find Bow compared to my S&B build rly weak.
Dmg is not everything if your enemy is able to think.

Manoekin

Columba wrote: »

show previous quotes

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah but when you get hit by 3-4 different lethal arrows you cant and wont have enough time to purge all 4 different healing debuffs and heal yourself before you die. Stacking different healing debuffs from the same type of attack is plainly stupid and should be changed.

Are you saying that 4 archers shouldn't be able to kill you???!

I'm a templar.

/flick

and BOOM goes the vampire.

That's how games work.

MiyaTheUnbroken

Snipe and it's morphs absolutely should continue to be sneak attacks. It's the definition of snipe. You have three basic attacks with a bow. The quickshot, obviously less damage and quick. The long draw, takes longer, uses more strength and energy, and hits a lot harder. Then you have the snipe shot, long range, heavy hitting, extremely accurate, and taken from hiding. When you apply this to the game it means that snipes should be coming from stealth, and long distances. It's ludicrous to suggest that snipe should be a stealth breaker

I don't think they should have made the cast time so short, but I get that they were trying to get rid of the three shot weaving. They should lengthen it a bit, it would take time, testing, and a lot of math to determine which cast time and what amount of damage would be balanced, which is best left to someone else, but I don't think the current cast time is congruent with what you'd expect from a snipe shot.

I don't think they should have taken away the dead zone. It makes no sense. You can't snipe someone with a bow if they're 6 feet away from you. You'd die trying. That's just silly. They should reinstate the last dead zone we had. Not the one before that, the most recent dead zone we had.

Finally, and most importantly, I don't think the healing debuff should be stacking. I don't really heal a lot, so I don't know that is stacking, but it shouldn't be. That is just ***, and if used properly can utterly wipe armies, especially now that there are no FCs. If it is stacking, you should definitely report it and perhaps make a separate thread about just that. See if we can get a statement from the devs on this. Try to get some screenshots of the debuffed heals in your combat logs if you can.

Columba

Manoekin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Columba wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Yeah but when you get hit by 3-4 different lethal arrows you cant and wont have enough time to purge all 4 different healing debuffs and heal yourself before you die. Stacking different healing debuffs from the same type of attack is plainly stupid and should be changed.

Are you saying that 4 archers shouldn't be able to kill you???!

I'm a templar.

/flick

and BOOM goes the vampire.

That's how games work.

So you want god mode?

cozmon3c_ESO

Lethal arrow, the longest distance ability in the game has a healing debuff why? Lol. Can any one say Op as hell. If anything that should be replaced with something else and put on a shorter ranged bow abilities like the knock back or bounce backwards ability.

Also yes all healing debuff are stacking, its not just lethal arrow. I like this idea but Eric may need to tone down the percentage of a healing debuff on all abilities. Before 1.5 healers were kings of the battlefield. Now there is a good counter but it's just too good because of how much a person can debuff healing with stacking from others.

Also a melee ranged heal debuff should debuff more then a ranged debuff, reverberating bash 40% (haven't maxed it yet and may be more but my point still stands) vs lethal arrow 50% (wow really??). Melee inherents more risk then ranged and abilities should be balanced and treated as such.