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QUIT SCREWING UP OUR ADD-ONS!
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WraithAzraiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Yes I did mean expectations. Moving on. The vast majority of us want a better UI. That should be obvious from the amount of addons downloaded. I am getting sick of them breaking it constantly and yes they should be aware that we are displeased with this. It's more infuriating when we come to these forums to let ZOS know that we are unhappy with the way we are doing thing only to have some of you berate us for wanting these things. It doesn't help when we ask for a very reasonable addition only to have people tell us that we shouldn't want it. I have no desire to ever dye my armor pink that doesn't mean I should care that someone else wants to. I don't go into threads about fishing and tell those people to quit complaining, because I don't give a crap about fishing or what they do with it. If you're happy with the UI great move on. There is no reason to tell us to just suck it up.WraithAzraiel wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Your exceptions should be a lot higher my friend. I'm sorry that you settle for bottom of the barrel features that even a F2P game would have but the rest of us don't have to. Stop pretending that the menu was done intentionally. It should be obvious by now just from the track record that they were simply incapable of creating a decent UI. What I suspect is that they probably had a robust and ambitious UI in mind but it kept breaking their game and they finally decided to just scrap it so they could release it faster. The alternative is that the UI was just an afterthought all along. But don't give me this load that it was intentional.WraithAzraiel wrote: »Sensesfail13 wrote: »You see, Its not my duty to worry about that, its my duty to worry about the finished product and theirs to deal with providing the product to me, otherwise why am I paying them?
Every person in this thread can keep beating the same dead horse but im not interested in hearing it, Im interesting in them changing it so that my experience isnt effected negatively every time they update the game. Add-ons whether they feel they are responsible for them or NOT are their responsibility because they neglect to make more options available within a mass market game, and as such should go out of their way while developing to work with the add-on developers to provide everybody with the service they desire whether you want the bland 5 button UI or the UI that provides necessary information for your gameplay.
Once more, the base, vanilla UI is in place as it is to appeal to the players that value immersion. It's minimalist by design, not by some perceived flaw in the production.
Relax, dude, you're going to give yourself a coronary for no reason.
Now if we paid for the Add-ons as well, then you have every right to be indignant, seeing as they are free - you're out of line.
Did you mean expectations? I'm not settling for anything, I've accepted the fact that I get what I want through use of add-ons, I'm not going to waste my energy being pissed off about something I have no control over. 1st World Problems.
It was intentional, to provide the Elder Scrolls fanboys with a familiar system. The allowance of add-ons gives us MMO players familiarity with a little extra work, in the end everyone should be happy.
Except of course for those people who allow things they have no control over drive them to the point of creating a ragepost ranting about how you're wrong because your views aren't the same as my views.
Count to 10 and go for a walk.
EDIT: +1 Awesome for the shout out to Add-On dudes/dudettes.
Okay, better response.
Don't waste your energy getting mad about things you have no control over, brother. It sucks, yea but we have the tools available to us to make the game what we want it to be.
We suffer together, I'm sorry if I was snippy.
+10000 Gamer SolidarityShendell De'Gull - V14 Vampire Nightblade
Captain of the Black Howling
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree 100% except this is their official forum. If we want to express to them that we don't like something or that we want something added, then this really is the place to do it and no energy should be wasted. I'm not posting this on Tamriel Foudry because I don't expect the devs to read it there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a better product. We pay for MMO's so that we can have constant improvements to the game.WraithAzraiel wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Yes I did mean expectations. Moving on. The vast majority of us want a better UI. That should be obvious from the amount of addons downloaded. I am getting sick of them breaking it constantly and yes they should be aware that we are displeased with this. It's more infuriating when we come to these forums to let ZOS know that we are unhappy with the way we are doing thing only to have some of you berate us for wanting these things. It doesn't help when we ask for a very reasonable addition only to have people tell us that we shouldn't want it. I have no desire to ever dye my armor pink that doesn't mean I should care that someone else wants to. I don't go into threads about fishing and tell those people to quit complaining, because I don't give a crap about fishing or what they do with it. If you're happy with the UI great move on. There is no reason to tell us to just suck it up.WraithAzraiel wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Your exceptions should be a lot higher my friend. I'm sorry that you settle for bottom of the barrel features that even a F2P game would have but the rest of us don't have to. Stop pretending that the menu was done intentionally. It should be obvious by now just from the track record that they were simply incapable of creating a decent UI. What I suspect is that they probably had a robust and ambitious UI in mind but it kept breaking their game and they finally decided to just scrap it so they could release it faster. The alternative is that the UI was just an afterthought all along. But don't give me this load that it was intentional.WraithAzraiel wrote: »Sensesfail13 wrote: »You see, Its not my duty to worry about that, its my duty to worry about the finished product and theirs to deal with providing the product to me, otherwise why am I paying them?
Every person in this thread can keep beating the same dead horse but im not interested in hearing it, Im interesting in them changing it so that my experience isnt effected negatively every time they update the game. Add-ons whether they feel they are responsible for them or NOT are their responsibility because they neglect to make more options available within a mass market game, and as such should go out of their way while developing to work with the add-on developers to provide everybody with the service they desire whether you want the bland 5 button UI or the UI that provides necessary information for your gameplay.
Once more, the base, vanilla UI is in place as it is to appeal to the players that value immersion. It's minimalist by design, not by some perceived flaw in the production.
Relax, dude, you're going to give yourself a coronary for no reason.
Now if we paid for the Add-ons as well, then you have every right to be indignant, seeing as they are free - you're out of line.
Did you mean expectations? I'm not settling for anything, I've accepted the fact that I get what I want through use of add-ons, I'm not going to waste my energy being pissed off about something I have no control over. 1st World Problems.
It was intentional, to provide the Elder Scrolls fanboys with a familiar system. The allowance of add-ons gives us MMO players familiarity with a little extra work, in the end everyone should be happy.
Except of course for those people who allow things they have no control over drive them to the point of creating a ragepost ranting about how you're wrong because your views aren't the same as my views.
Count to 10 and go for a walk.
EDIT: +1 Awesome for the shout out to Add-On dudes/dudettes.
Okay, better response.
Don't waste your energy getting mad about things you have no control over, brother. It sucks, yea but we have the tools available to us to make the game what we want it to be.
We suffer together, I'm sorry if I was snippy.
+10000 Gamer SolidarityEdited by eventide03b14a_ESO on November 3, 2014 9:41PM:trollin:4 -
Cazic✭✭✭✭✭The problem here is that the direction of this discussion is just way off.
Complaining that addons have stopped working due to a major content update is unfounded.
What that side is really trying to say is "We want the features for which we rely on addons to be included in the vanilla UI". That's a reasonable request, but it should be directed more as a feature request/feedback than a complaint about addon compatibility.
And on that note, you have to accept that ZOS made a choice to keep the UI simple in the interest of immersion and staying true to the ES series. They realize the UI lacks some basic MMO features, and thus they allowed addons.
As frustrating as this may be for some of us, it is in fact the best of both worlds. It's not without flaw, but nothing is perfect.7 -
Sneak_Thief✭✭✭✭Sensesfail13 wrote: »EVERY PATCH! Now FTC Combat is screwed up! This is ridiculous, we customize our UI's because the original one with the game is so inherently horrid it makes playing the game a pita and every patch you screw up the best ones! Either make a UI that is worth while for players to use or stop screwing up our addons!
I have tried to tell you this in game but I don't think you understand. ZOS doesn't setout to "break" our add-ons. It is simply a result of an API update. And someone above mentioned they change our add-on files, No they dont. Its simply that old files are based on previous versions thus do not communicate with a newer api.
As a former server owner, the game I ran relied on 3rd parties to update the api of the add-ons they made for the game. I updated my server when things became available. But you can't get upset that these guys didn't have one immediately ready the moment of a new version.
Don't look at this as ZOS broke your addons, its simply that the addon creator did not have an updated version with the newest api for you to download. Most of these guys are 20 year olds who usually don't have it updated as soon as ESO updates, and its also possible that they have abandoned development on it.
Its a moot point for a couple reasons, FTC does work, Im using it and we told you that in guild chat. Also, if ESO doesn't update, then we have no progression, and when we have no progression the game doesn't grow and you are stuck with the same game. There is nothing else to this, updates are a must, and you can't avoid api updates, and with api changes this will break addons who require an updated api.
Most add-on creators are given weeks to test and update their addon, ZOS gives us a pts for this reason. So if the creator didn't update their add-on its probably because its not their priority.Edited by Sneak_Thief on November 3, 2014 9:56PM4 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You agreed to the End User License Agreement by default when you installed the game. Zenimax doesn't have to give you, or addon makers, squat. I think the default UI is just fine, because I don't need to have my hand held by multiple addons.
The only reason you say that is because you dont like add-on's. And WOW....I feel bad for you man! You actually think that the vanilla UI is good? lmao!
Yes I do, and my game isn't slowed down by add-ons. And when Add-ons break, I can still play.
But that's my choice, just as add-ons are yours.
In the mean while give the add-on developers a few days to fix their add-ons.Edited by AlexDougherty on November 3, 2014 9:58PMPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
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Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule3 -
Sneak_Thief✭✭✭✭
It's crazy how so many *** about add-ons not being updated at their beckon call but I bet the those same ones sure as hell aren't donating to the guys doing the work. Its not like they have much incentive to spend the time they do just so we can have updates. I think we can all survive a few days while they update them.AlexDougherty wrote: »In the mean while give the add-on developers a few days to fix their add-ons.Edited by Sneak_Thief on November 3, 2014 10:14PM6 -
Breg_Magol✭✭✭✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »There's only so much ZoS can do to "work with the addons". Their priority is to update the game, not the addons. Updating the addons is up to the developers of them. Be thankful that they do embrace and support addons at all.
Without ADDONs saying this games UI is abysmally bad would be an overstatement.
Since zen doesnt care about making it good themselves , they should indeed care about the work modders put making it decent.
That's like, just your opinion man ...1 -
Gillysan✭✭✭✭
I think you fail to realize how important addons are to some people.Sneak_Thief wrote: »
It's crazy how so many *** about add-ons not being updated at their beckon call but I bet the those same ones sure as hell aren't donating to the guys doing the work. Its not like they have much incentive to spend the time they do just so we can have updates. I think we can all survive a few days while they update them.AlexDougherty wrote: »In the mean while give the add-on developers a few days to fix their add-ons.
Anyways, waiting for the server to come back on and test out....
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138067/psa-how-to-get-almost-all-your-add-on-setting-menus-to-work-with-1-5#latest
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Dwemer Forum Thread3 -
Breg_Magol✭✭✭✭EinionYrth wrote: »All these folk saying how it is impossible for the devs to ensure that add-ons will keep working. What? The only interface add-on writers have to the game is an API provided by the devs, if the API calls from one version continue to have the same signature in the next version then the add-on will work. Broken add-ons is a result of devs changing the API, which goes against a cardinal rule of API design.
Sometimes API's have to be updated too ... I know cause I'm the patron god of API's (just a minor god ... well, very minor ... more of a jumped up deity really).
The happy outcome is that all addon developers can then make their changes using the new API.
Rule number one ... let the game dictate the changes ...rule number two, never let the API dictate changes you make to a game.
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Sneak_Thief✭✭✭✭
I think you fail to realize how important addons are to some people.Sneak_Thief wrote: »
It's crazy how so many *** about add-ons not being updated at their beckon call but I bet the those same ones sure as hell aren't donating to the guys doing the work. Its not like they have much incentive to spend the time they do just so we can have updates. I think we can all survive a few days while they update them.AlexDougherty wrote: »In the mean while give the add-on developers a few days to fix their add-ons.
Anyways, waiting for the server to come back on and test out....
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/138067/psa-how-to-get-almost-all-your-add-on-setting-menus-to-work-with-1-5#latest
No I don't fail to realize. I have many years of sever ownership under my belt. I know exactly what add-ons mean as a sever owner and a gamer. I use alot of add-ons on eso as well, But I dont *** when every unpaid add-on creator doesn't have one ready to go on update day. You can't fault these guys, I love my add-ons, but when I have to wait a few days for them to update, I dont *** about it, I live with it, and update it at the time it's available. And just because I don't moan and complain like a damn spoiled child does mean they are any less important to me.Edited by Sneak_Thief on November 3, 2014 10:27PM4 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »Yeah its so god awful that it looks just like every other TES out there. How dare they take an Elder Scrolls UI and put it into their Elder Scrolls Game!!! Burn the Witches!!!!!!!
Are you kidding me? Every TES game had a completely new terrible UI with each game. Interestingly enough even vanilla Morrowind and Oblivion had a lot more functionality then ESO. Also let's not forget that a large portion of people that play TES are PC TES players for which finding a good UI mod came very quickly after installing the games. We were not forced to play with the crappy TES UIs and we generally have some standards for rpg and mmo UIs.Edited by PBpsy on November 3, 2014 10:32PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)4 -
Dalexx✭✭✭EinionYrth wrote: »Broken add-ons is a result of devs changing the API, which goes against a cardinal rule of API design.
As a rule Add-ons aren't broken on purpose, unless a mod is doing something they decided wasn't good for the game and\or players. Sometimes they see that the API for the Guild Store is generating a lot of chatter, maybe it causes problems with a certain mod. They go back and find if they make a couple of changes, it resolves the issue. By making the change, the add-on works even better. That's a win-win for everyone.
Sounds like some people prefer a sloppy add-on or an add-on that can lead to a client crash, because they won't have to go a day or two without it. Or even worse, the Add-on author quit and now the mod is broken. So ZOS should leave the less than ideal API code in place so people can still use a 6 month old mod?
Talk about misplaced anger.
Edited by Dalexx on November 3, 2014 10:34PM3 -
diabeticDemon18✭✭✭Sensesfail13 wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »There's only so much ZoS can do to "work with the addons". Their priority is to update the game, not the addons. Updating the addons is up to the developers of them. Be thankful that they do embrace and support addons at all.
Without ADDONs saying this games UI is abysmally bad would be an overstatement.
Since zen doesnt care about making it good themselves , they should indeed care about the work modders put making it decent.
If you have complaints about a UI then that's your problem, not the Devs'. Just because you cant adapt to a new UI doesn't mean the dev's don't care. They stuck true to the elder scrolls/skyrim UI the best they could while making it an mmo. Having a problem with a games UI because you cant learn something new doesn't mean the dev's or the game sucks....it just means your lacking as a gamer and are stuck on whatever preloaded WoW standards you think is "fitting" for an mmo.
And I think you meant understatement, not overstatement.
What you fail to realize is that we are the consumer, Zenimax and the developers provide us with a service and in order for us to keep PAYING THEM for said service it is up to them to provide a product worth paying them to spend our time on. So YES IT IS THE DEVELOPERS AND ZENIMAX' PROBLEM. This is an MMO there are very basic features that have been asked for and WERE NOT PROVIDED since BETA such as HEALTH/MAGICKA/STAMINA BARS health percentages ETC ETC. THEY ALL COMBINE for very basic utilization and provide needed information for combat and progression within the game, AND THEY ARE NOT PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPER WHICH IS A PROBLEM. If they do not wish to provide these very basic utilities within the USER INTERFACE OF THEIR GAME then it is their obligation, NOT CHOICE, to work with add-on developers for their customers to customize and utilize their game. The continued negligence towards the opinions of their customers is reprehensible considering the fact that WE ARE PAYING FOR THEM TO DEVELOP AND UPDATE THE GAME. And if you can not post within this thread without insulting others dont post in my thread at all.
You have one problem in your logic... they don't need you. There are PLENTY of people who play this game without add-ons, they would definitely still make their money, no problem. It's their job to cater to the majority, and the majority is fine without add-ons to "enhance" the game. The percentage that they would lose to people who are throwing a hissy fit because they "need" add-ons to play the game, is far less than the amount of time they would have to spend to try and maintain every add-on with every single update. The labor costs far surpass the subscriber loss in this instance. Sorry to say, I do know my economics and you don't quite understand some very basic Macroeconomics key laws.
For instance:
1. The producer will only produce as long as the benefit to them exceeds the benefit.
Note: If Labor costs them 'X' amount of dollars to keep up with add-ons and subscription losses costs them 'Y' amount of dollars, as long as X >= Y, they will not keep up with add-ons.
2. The producers have no reason to do anything to benefit the customer, the economy is based around a principle of self-interest.
Note: It is in their own self-interest to maintain a product that maximizes their revenue, not the amount of users.
So, all I need to say is... they don't give a D**N that you quit the game because you can't have your add-ons. They only care that their revenue exceeds their costs. Not to bag on ZoS, it's just how the economy works. If you don't like it, sorry but that's life.
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Sneak_Thief✭✭✭✭
Yea some don't get how this all works, and it seems difficult to try and even explain it. Misplaced anger is a good way to describe it.
Sounds like some people prefer a sloppy add-on or an add-on that can lead to a client crash, because they won't have to go a day or two without it. Or even worse, the Add-on author quit and now the mod is broken. So ZOS should leave the less than ideal API code in place so people can still use a 6 month old mod?EinionYrth wrote: »Broken add-ons is a result of devs changing the API, which goes against a cardinal rule of API design.
Talk about misplaced anger.5 -
sean.plackerb14_ESO✭✭✭✭The addon API for update 5 was posted on October 14th. I'd say that's a decent notice for addon devs.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/135893/update-5-api-patch-notes-change-log-pts
Yeah its a pain. I don't use a lot of addons but the few I do I hate not having.
I haven't gotten the chance to see if it fixed the LUA errors for me but trying following these instructions and see if it helps.
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2l6hr4/psa_how_to_get_almost_all_your_addon_setting/Edited by sean.plackerb14_ESO on November 3, 2014 10:46PM@sean8102 - Carlore - Daggerfall Covenant3 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭They will never quit screwing up addons. Every update until the end of time will feature changes to common addon commands in order to make them malfunction unless the author goes in and changes them and makes us redownload it.2 -
Gyudan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Nice, you reached 30 LOLs already!Sensesfail13 wrote: »EVERY PATCH! Now FTC Combat is screwed up! This is ridiculous, we customize our UI's because the original one with the game is so inherently horrid it makes playing the game a pita and every patch you screw up the best ones! Either make a UI that is worth while for players to use or stop screwing up our addons!
I'd rather have screwed up addons than less bug fixes and new content. Addon devs will update their stuff in the next few days, it's not such a big deal.Wololo.4 -
Markaeus✭✭To the OP: it seems like you are more angry at the Addon developers for taking much longer to update their addon than it took for ZOS to release the update.. The API changes were posted weeks ago, the patch has been up on the PTS for at least that long. You can't blame ZOS because an addon doesnt work with the game they are putting out. That's akin to blaming a car manufacturer for your aftermarket stereo not working.. go to the addon developer and gripe at them about it and let ZOS keep working on the game..3 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭The problem here is that the direction of this discussion is just way off.
Complaining that addons have stopped working due to a major content update is unfounded.
What that side is really trying to say is "We want the features for which we rely on addons to be included in the vanilla UI". That's a reasonable request, but it should be directed more as a feature request/feedback than a complaint about addon compatibility.
And on that note, you have to accept that ZOS made a choice to keep the UI simple in the interest of immersion and staying true to the ES series. They realize the UI lacks some basic MMO features, and thus they allowed addons.
As frustrating as this may be for some of us, it is in fact the best of both worlds. It's not without flaw, but nothing is perfect.
This^3 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sensesfail13 wrote: »EVERY PATCH! Now FTC Combat is screwed up! This is ridiculous, we customize our UI's because the original one with the game is so inherently horrid it makes playing the game a pita and every patch you screw up the best ones! Either make a UI that is worth while for players to use or stop screwing up our addons!
There is a very easy fix for your "problem".
@ZOS
Please listen to this plea and remove all support for addons.
No more bugs! No more problems with addons!
Happy?!?Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"4 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nox_Aeterna wrote: »There's only so much ZoS can do to "work with the addons". Their priority is to update the game, not the addons. Updating the addons is up to the developers of them. Be thankful that they do embrace and support addons at all.
Without ADDONs saying this games UI is abysmally bad would be an overstatement.
Since zen doesnt care about making it good themselves , they should indeed care about the work modders put making it decent.
I'll meet you halfway.
Addons is a part of ESO and just like Blizzard, they do their best to give out the info they can. Some info simply can not be released. Abuse/bug/unintended problems.
They do work with addons and support the USE of them. Whining about addons on patch day is moot. But if a creator of an addon is not
>able <
Notice this word, to fix their addon, maybe ZoS should help some.
However,
The game works outstandingly well without addons.
The UI are to the letter, exactly what Zenimax promised, years before launch. Clean, nice and not in the way UI. Not that much are needed, since most interaction you do while playing, is playing. No need for 20 macros....
Yes, ZoS could do more for addons.
No, it is not "fair" to yell on them on patch day for addons they do not support.
Anyone who claims ESO is not playable without addons, needs to L2P.
(Hah! Never said that one before!)Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"3 -
Sensesfail13✭✭✭✭LoldiabeticDemon18 wrote: »Sensesfail13 wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »There's only so much ZoS can do to "work with the addons". Their priority is to update the game, not the addons. Updating the addons is up to the developers of them. Be thankful that they do embrace and support addons at all.
Without ADDONs saying this games UI is abysmally bad would be an overstatement.
Since zen doesnt care about making it good themselves , they should indeed care about the work modders put making it decent.
If you have complaints about a UI then that's your problem, not the Devs'. Just because you cant adapt to a new UI doesn't mean the dev's don't care. They stuck true to the elder scrolls/skyrim UI the best they could while making it an mmo. Having a problem with a games UI because you cant learn something new doesn't mean the dev's or the game sucks....it just means your lacking as a gamer and are stuck on whatever preloaded WoW standards you think is "fitting" for an mmo.
And I think you meant understatement, not overstatement.
What you fail to realize is that we are the consumer, Zenimax and the developers provide us with a service and in order for us to keep PAYING THEM for said service it is up to them to provide a product worth paying them to spend our time on. So YES IT IS THE DEVELOPERS AND ZENIMAX' PROBLEM. This is an MMO there are very basic features that have been asked for and WERE NOT PROVIDED since BETA such as HEALTH/MAGICKA/STAMINA BARS health percentages ETC ETC. THEY ALL COMBINE for very basic utilization and provide needed information for combat and progression within the game, AND THEY ARE NOT PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPER WHICH IS A PROBLEM. If they do not wish to provide these very basic utilities within the USER INTERFACE OF THEIR GAME then it is their obligation, NOT CHOICE, to work with add-on developers for their customers to customize and utilize their game. The continued negligence towards the opinions of their customers is reprehensible considering the fact that WE ARE PAYING FOR THEM TO DEVELOP AND UPDATE THE GAME. And if you can not post within this thread without insulting others dont post in my thread at all.
You have one problem in your logic... they don't need you. There are PLENTY of people who play this game without add-ons, they would definitely still make their money, no problem. It's their job to cater to the majority, and the majority is fine without add-ons to "enhance" the game. The percentage that they would lose to people who are throwing a hissy fit because they "need" add-ons to play the game, is far less than the amount of time they would have to spend to try and maintain every add-on with every single update. The labor costs far surpass the subscriber loss in this instance. Sorry to say, I do know my economics and you don't quite understand some very basic Macroeconomics key laws.
For instance:
1. The producer will only produce as long as the benefit to them exceeds the benefit.
Note: If Labor costs them 'X' amount of dollars to keep up with add-ons and subscription losses costs them 'Y' amount of dollars, as long as X >= Y, they will not keep up with add-ons.
2. The producers have no reason to do anything to benefit the customer, the economy is based around a principle of self-interest.
Note: It is in their own self-interest to maintain a product that maximizes their revenue, not the amount of users.
So, all I need to say is... they don't give a D**N that you quit the game because you can't have your add-ons. They only care that their revenue exceeds their costs. Not to bag on ZoS, it's just how the economy works. If you don't like it, sorry but that's life.
You're right, individually they do not need me or my money, but if it is not in their "self-interest" to retain and attract consumers then how do they maximize their revenue? Does it just pop out of thin air? They have to at least make an effort to appease their current subscribers and attract new ones, if they intentionally alienate current customers that affects their future revenue because gamers are sadly a pretty tight knit community being so directly connected through these blasphemous devices we call computers.
"The producers have no reason to do anything to benefit the customer, the economy is based around a principle of self-interest. Note: It is in their own self-interest to maintain a product that maximizes their revenue, not the amount of users." <
Them benefiting the customer is in their self interest because that is how they receive their revenue... so let me show you
X = USERS
Y = Subscriptions, which additionally = Z amount of dollars
For every additional X, you gain an additional Y.... darn I guess I messed up my logic there did Zenimax' losing customers not affect their revenue I guess their money just came out of nowhere.
Soooo since you are so economically savvy, show me the numbers. How does their revenue exceed their costs when it begins dwindling with alienating a current customer base that is in, if I may say so myself, their direct self-interest to maintain?
Your economics, and logic is lacking. Good game though. Troll fail.Wisherr, Dragonknight, Haderus, NA Server.
Wisher of Naught, Nightblade, Haderus, NA Server.
Guild officer: Abandoned Legion2 -
Sensesfail13✭✭✭✭My anger is not misplaced, although the forum-bags have surely united on my post. Zenimax' and its developers working to provide a USER INTERFACE that appeases their entire community is no tiny thing... seeing as their product is a game... on a screen... even if you have it so that large parts can be disabled so that you can receive those "I played Morrowind back in the day" feels you so seem to want in an MMO. I dont need more explanations about "its the add-on developers problem my trip through Tamriel has been a walk of flowers and heart shaped lollipops" But thank you all for the LOL cards and useless comments about how youre so fine with 5 buttons as your UI. My post was directly for the forum mods and Zenimax not for you but please continue expressing your opinions.Wisherr, Dragonknight, Haderus, NA Server.
Wisher of Naught, Nightblade, Haderus, NA Server.
Guild officer: Abandoned Legion7 -
Valymer✭✭✭✭✭It's pretty much a moot point now, because I'd say that the vast majority of hardcore players (coincidentally the ones who voice the most demand for a decent UI) have already jumped ship and went to other games due to long-standing bugs or balance issues (especially in PvP). The majority that remain are TES fanboys (nothing wrong with that, but it's a fact) who are used to minimalist UIs from previous single-player Elder Scrolls games, and thus are more likely to put up with or even enjoy the default UI.
Whether or not the default UI (or lack therof) was an artistic decision or a budgetary one on the part of Zenimax is open for debate, but either way it was definitely intentional and everyone should just give up asking for improvements to the UI, you are wasting your time. What you have is all you are going to get from ZOS.
The people out there that absolutely cannot play this game without the seemingly basic functionality provided through addons (I myself am included in this number) will just have to hope that kind addon developers keep donating their time and hard work to making this game playable for hundreds of thousands of people--a number that can be easily seen from the amount of times that many addons have been downloaded from ESO addon sites.
If these developers stop updating or creating addons at some point, you will probably see a sizable exodus of players from the game. But Zenimax does not need these players because their business model did not include them in the first place--they knew from jump street that the UI would be this way and that people who can't get on with just what is provided would not end up being subscribers anyway.Edited by Valymer on November 4, 2014 5:21AM3 -
Vanzen✭✭✭✭✭I would immediately quit this game if I couldnt use the addons that "store" your outfit or skills set up ... For those that dont have them, I just cant imagine the time you loose changing your skill set up ... You can even key bind them and change them in a sec !Edited by Vanzen on November 4, 2014 7:44AM3
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Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭@OP Oh, You must be new because anyone that's every played a modded game for more than like 1 patch cycle would know that sometimes mods/addons need to be readjusted to the new patch API. So, I'm thinking you must be the new guy....Fear not. Your add-ons will return in their full glory...some day soon...maybe...I think....so long as the author is still playing...or cares.
I don't know if it matters, but my add-ons are working pretty well. I mean there are some out of date ones but they are working fine....shrug.Edited by Vizier on November 4, 2014 9:08AM1 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Took me all of 30 seconds to update the two add-ons I use (Dustman and Destinations)...1 -
zerofyniteSoul ShrivenSensesfail13 wrote: »EVERY PATCH! Now FTC Combat is screwed up! This is ridiculous, we customize our UI's because the original one with the game is so inherently horrid it makes playing the game a pita and every patch you screw up the best ones! Either make a UI that is worth while for players to use or stop screwing up our addons!
Agreed... UI Framework shouldn't change that often... Eventually mod developers will give up supporting their mod due to lack of resources having to constantly align their code to the UI framework, players will get frustrated fixing mods and fixing settings, just becomes a big mess. At some point the UI framework should be frozen codewise for a longer period of time.
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