Battle Roar - Is this why DK's are thought to be so strong?

Maulkin

shanersimms_ESO wrote: »

No no, it's just Reflective Scales. That is all.

I like how everyone chips in this convertation with what they dislike about the DKs. I'm surprised no one's mentioned GDB yet.

As a Sorc, I'm fine with Scales considering they're about to fix the reflection of Mage's Warth explosion. If I can have Streak, they can have Scales. Enough with nerfs to my Streak though, the last one hurt

msawwan2ub17_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

In short, yes it does.

But there's a third element at play here which is Bat Swarm which is
a) cheap
b) generates ult like a mudafucka cause it's a PBAoE that also allows you to cast another PBAoE while channelling
c) gives Battler Roar as if it's a 250 ult ability when in fact with reductions it costs 150. Which arguably is a bug

STOP
please stop. you sound stupid and make others even stupid[er] by reading your knowledge.

batswarms DOES NOT generate ultimate when its ticking on people, banner dont either. ultimate dmg doesnt generate ultimate.

this topic is full of morons and ***, like 80% of you are.

the answer to the OP question is go duck your self. battle roar is good yes, if they take it away i dont give 2 ducks.

but if you are talking about resources management i encourage you to watch Krim video as a NB vs X

also WHO the *** did you see that was able to keep batswarms every 6 seconds? I would like to meet him.
the most i have seen was from Hovadouch. and he is 1 player. not every DK can do this, not any DK can do this
and when it comes to banner No one drops banners more than me. and my record is 12 banners under 1 min, but thats only because i was fighting 70+ people and 3 sorcs using absorption field on me where ever i go and had 3 templars healing the *** out of me. not because battle roar kept me up.

I'll break it up for you further. when you see a DK tanking 70+ people, look behind him, he have templars healing him, look above him, he have absorption field. and remember, idiots like you who throw ground aoe in a negate are the ones feeding that DK massive mana and health.

Braidas

msawwan2ub17_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

In short, yes it does.

But there's a third element at play here which is Bat Swarm which is
a) cheap
b) generates ult like a mudafucka cause it's a PBAoE that also allows you to cast another PBAoE while channelling
c) gives Battler Roar as if it's a 250 ult ability when in fact with reductions it costs 150. Which arguably is a bug

STOP
please stop. you sound stupid and make others even stupid[er] by reading your knowledge.

batswarms DOES NOT generate ultimate when its ticking on people, banner dont either. ultimate dmg doesnt generate ultimate.

this topic is full of morons and ***, like 80% of you are.

the answer to the OP question is go duck your self. battle roar is good yes, if they take it away i dont give 2 ducks.

but if you are talking about resources management i encourage you to watch Krim video as a NB vs X

also WHO the *** did you see that was able to keep batswarms every 6 seconds? I would like to meet him.
the most i have seen was from Hovadouch. and he is 1 player. not every DK can do this, not any DK can do this
and when it comes to banner No one drops banners more than me. and my record is 12 banners under 1 min, but thats only because i was fighting 70+ people and 3 sorcs using absorption field on me where ever i go and had 3 templars healing the *** out of me. not because battle roar kept me up.

I'll break it up for you further. when you see a DK tanking 70+ people, look behind him, he have templars healing him, look above him, he have absorption field. and remember, idiots like you who throw ground aoe in a negate are the ones feeding that DK massive mana and health.

Can vouch that Jones *** banners

Aoe_Barbecue

Jones' face when his field of 4 active banners gets negated:

Maulkin

Huntler wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

omg repentance giving back magicka too?? someone hold me

He he. In my humble opinion, Templar needs quite a few changes to move him away from the repetitive Blazing Shield spam while not reducing his overall tankiness. To spice up the class and make more than a couple builds viable.

I think it's very hard to play a magicka DPS Templar for example. That Dawn's Wrath line needs its abilities to hit much much faster than they currently do for starters.

I would personally increase the cost on Blazing Shield a bit, but give Repentance some magicka return too to compensate. I would probably have one morph of Rushed Ceremony being a reliable self heal for those that are tanks rather than healers, to remove the risk of the heal being "stolen" by some nearby player who's running low on health.

But, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on Templars as the highest level I ever got mine was ~20. I'll leave that to those who play the class.

Anyhow, that's a conversation for another thread. Apologies to Jack for digressing

Na I'm happy for this digression its not talked about enough. The Braidas can joke all he wants, but I am curious how often he goes heal mode or something templars suck with magicka. You are absolutely right that dawn's wrath abilities are slow. Our range dot takes seconds to get to people... as silly as that sounds its basically useless from range because of how long it takes. Laugh as a bowman shoots you 3 times from max range before it gets to him.

Blazing shield should just get nerfed to what is was before so it is no longer spammable or hell give it the same treatment as BE for all I care. For those who forgot before you could not regen magicka with it up, so basically it'll be harder to keep up (heck maybe even a slight increase in cost). Putting magicka return on repetance would be very intersting, but it likely would have to be a little less than what it gives for health/stamina. The downside there is you need bodies and other templars could be giving you issues. Some kind of mechanic would be nice though since we are the only class without one.

No way, no skill you use should be stopping your mana regen. DKs have a similar skill in Inferno and no one uses it for that reason. By all means increase the cost of Blazing Shield to make it less easily spammable, but to invest in magicka regen only to be stripped away from you is rubbish imo.

I'm concerned about overnerfing Blazing Shield because from what I see Templars don't have many decent PBAoEs, like the DK for example. I think it should be used a bit more as part of a rotation rather than a gimmicky one button spam though.

Also the way repentance works, each corpse can only be drained once, so if it becomes a skill that returns magicka too, you'll be seeing Templars fighting over corpses ha ha. Point being though, that there'll be less corpses around for Templars to feed I think it would be a nice boost to both healers and DPSers alike.

That ulti though, Nova, it needs its cost reduced. I don't think anyone would argue against that.

Lfehova

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

Am I missing something? You pop your ultimate and heal more with the passive in question than I do with any NB class skill. Then there is green dragon blood.

I don't have any class-based anything as a NB that can heal that much at once.

Maybe I am missing something, I don't play DK's.

Sorry. I meant as a healer for group. Not self healing.

Nightblade swallow soul resto healer is a beastly healer and same with sorc Lightning resto healer. Dat weapon damage for resto heals.

DKs got some new synergy added with igneous shield but it's an expensive temporary buff if you want to heal your group.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Some of you are missing the point.



It says it returns resources based off the Ultimate cost. NOT the base Ultimate cost.

Without emperor buffs, The standard costs 200 ult.



At Vampire stage 4, Bat Swarm costs 158. Yet it returns the same amount of resources back as an ultimate that costs 200.


For starters, at least fix this bug/problem.

And No.

It says ultimate's cost. If you look at tooltip in your skill tree. It says standard costs 200 and batswarm costs 200.

Also, who cares?

70% of 200 is 140
70% of 158 is 110.6

Omg that 30 magicka, stamina, and health. Learn to math. Quit this incessant posting about a bug that may not even be a bug due to vague wording by ZoS, and something that is truly an insignificant difference.

Close sypher thread.

Lfehova, there's no need to come across as aggressive towards Sypher mate. You can disagree of course and you do have a point that 40 in 800+ regen from Battle Roar is not really a game breaker or maker, just don't go in with personal targeting. There's enough of that on other threads.

Anyhow, like I said I'm on the camp that thinks Battle Roar itself is fine. The synergy with Combat Frenzy and Batswarm, is however a bit too strong for me. It's a bit of a cheese build, without meaning to offend people who run the most efficient build in the game. It's just natural that people will choose it.

Jack has a point that in certain circumstances the total regen achieved is much higher than anyone else would achieve. I do believe that DKs need better regen based on success to negate the fact we don't have escapes. Templars in particular however have neither an escape nor comparable magicka management. Though I believe Templars needs some Magicka love, maybe through a change to Repentance.

It's a personal opinion by all accounts, but I think being able to chain ulties is what's not cool. They'll have to carefully look at that with AoE caps being removed.

As somebody who plays a Sorc as much a DK, I don't feel DKs are too much of a problem for mobile classes. Hell, I can even stand my ground (outside a banner of course) and fight "mano a mano" no problem. I do it in duels. In group settings however, when the DK is using nearby randoms to get constant access to Battler Roar, I have to carefully kite and evade.

They did say they're looking at the whole thing though, so let's hope any changes are reasonable. The ZOS nerfhammer has been fairly brutal in the past

I agree with your points. All except one. Templars have plenty of sustain and their heals are relatively cheap and their blazing shield is unparalleled for shield per magicka cost. It takes me forever to kill a good Templar. I would assume the only time the Templar dies is when he finally runs out of magicka, so giving him more magicka could be dangerous to balance, since he's healing not just himself while sustaining, but others as well.

As for the aggression towards sypher, I pm'd him in game to explain this "bug". This is his third or fourth post about it. In addition, he has had three of his fanboys in the past week, PMing me to ask me why I dislike him, when I already told him straight to his face why. Posts like these contribute.

In what world are Templar heals cheap? They are the most expensive heal in the game. You have to compare apples to apples hova, if you're trying to say templar heals are cheap because templar healers will wear all 7 light armor, 3 magicka reduction enchants, seducers, etc. then compare it to someone who doesn't do the same than yeah they'll seem cheap. However, templar heals are ridiculous expensive (and thats fine because they are strong), but don't kid yourself in thinking they are cheap. I actually agree that Templars deserve better magicka management as they have basically nothing as far as class wise to manage that resource (repentance is an interesting idea, but could be broken in certain cases). Blazing shield can be cheap as well, but we are talking 2 different type of templars here and healing templars don't have the kind of sustain basically every other class does (through a combination of class passives/abilities) in fact we have nothing. Our crutch has been to have other healers around to spell symm or use magicka harness. Magicka harness is going out the window soon so basically you have to use tools that everyone else has access to (pots, spell symm, heavy attacks) while just being worse in general.

Some kind of templar class mechanic for magicka would be nice. Nerf blazing shield for all I care (I say just undo the buff they gave it so that you don't remember magicka when its up, then no spamming or gg templar).

But for the love of god its a joke if you say templar heals are cheap... A dps templar doesn't need much magicka so I am guessing that is where youre getting this misconception as they don't need to heal much, just spam cheap blazing shield/spears. Even then that templar build is gimmicky as f*ck. Idiots die to that garbage (I know because I've run it). When your build relies on your opponent's stupidity its not a good build across the board. I half think the reason Zeni hasn't nerfed blazing shield spam is because they have no idea what to do to help templars if they nerf it because templars will likely be back in the gutter kill/tank wise. Sure we are great healers, but as I said in my opinion a magicka resource mechanic (doesn't have to be strong) but something is needed.

Keep in mind I'm not talking here about the 2 hander templar small man or 1v1 build that is out there because thats pretty strong, but not very useful in group fighting.

Good points about the Templar magicka management. I was more referring to the heal per magicka cost vs the dps per magicka cost. Its very difficult to kill a Templar if he is solely focused on surviving, as Mano proved yesterday.

Huntler

Lfehova wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

Am I missing something? You pop your ultimate and heal more with the passive in question than I do with any NB class skill. Then there is green dragon blood.

I don't have any class-based anything as a NB that can heal that much at once.

Maybe I am missing something, I don't play DK's.

Sorry. I meant as a healer for group. Not self healing.

Nightblade swallow soul resto healer is a beastly healer and same with sorc Lightning resto healer. Dat weapon damage for resto heals.

DKs got some new synergy added with igneous shield but it's an expensive temporary buff if you want to heal your group.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Some of you are missing the point.



It says it returns resources based off the Ultimate cost. NOT the base Ultimate cost.

Without emperor buffs, The standard costs 200 ult.



At Vampire stage 4, Bat Swarm costs 158. Yet it returns the same amount of resources back as an ultimate that costs 200.


For starters, at least fix this bug/problem.

And No.

It says ultimate's cost. If you look at tooltip in your skill tree. It says standard costs 200 and batswarm costs 200.

Also, who cares?

70% of 200 is 140
70% of 158 is 110.6

Omg that 30 magicka, stamina, and health. Learn to math. Quit this incessant posting about a bug that may not even be a bug due to vague wording by ZoS, and something that is truly an insignificant difference.

Close sypher thread.

Lfehova, there's no need to come across as aggressive towards Sypher mate. You can disagree of course and you do have a point that 40 in 800+ regen from Battle Roar is not really a game breaker or maker, just don't go in with personal targeting. There's enough of that on other threads.

Anyhow, like I said I'm on the camp that thinks Battle Roar itself is fine. The synergy with Combat Frenzy and Batswarm, is however a bit too strong for me. It's a bit of a cheese build, without meaning to offend people who run the most efficient build in the game. It's just natural that people will choose it.

Jack has a point that in certain circumstances the total regen achieved is much higher than anyone else would achieve. I do believe that DKs need better regen based on success to negate the fact we don't have escapes. Templars in particular however have neither an escape nor comparable magicka management. Though I believe Templars needs some Magicka love, maybe through a change to Repentance.

It's a personal opinion by all accounts, but I think being able to chain ulties is what's not cool. They'll have to carefully look at that with AoE caps being removed.

As somebody who plays a Sorc as much a DK, I don't feel DKs are too much of a problem for mobile classes. Hell, I can even stand my ground (outside a banner of course) and fight "mano a mano" no problem. I do it in duels. In group settings however, when the DK is using nearby randoms to get constant access to Battler Roar, I have to carefully kite and evade.

They did say they're looking at the whole thing though, so let's hope any changes are reasonable. The ZOS nerfhammer has been fairly brutal in the past

I agree with your points. All except one. Templars have plenty of sustain and their heals are relatively cheap and their blazing shield is unparalleled for shield per magicka cost. It takes me forever to kill a good Templar. I would assume the only time the Templar dies is when he finally runs out of magicka, so giving him more magicka could be dangerous to balance, since he's healing not just himself while sustaining, but others as well.

As for the aggression towards sypher, I pm'd him in game to explain this "bug". This is his third or fourth post about it. In addition, he has had three of his fanboys in the past week, PMing me to ask me why I dislike him, when I already told him straight to his face why. Posts like these contribute.

In what world are Templar heals cheap? They are the most expensive heal in the game. You have to compare apples to apples hova, if you're trying to say templar heals are cheap because templar healers will wear all 7 light armor, 3 magicka reduction enchants, seducers, etc. then compare it to someone who doesn't do the same than yeah they'll seem cheap. However, templar heals are ridiculous expensive (and thats fine because they are strong), but don't kid yourself in thinking they are cheap. I actually agree that Templars deserve better magicka management as they have basically nothing as far as class wise to manage that resource (repentance is an interesting idea, but could be broken in certain cases). Blazing shield can be cheap as well, but we are talking 2 different type of templars here and healing templars don't have the kind of sustain basically every other class does (through a combination of class passives/abilities) in fact we have nothing. Our crutch has been to have other healers around to spell symm or use magicka harness. Magicka harness is going out the window soon so basically you have to use tools that everyone else has access to (pots, spell symm, heavy attacks) while just being worse in general.

Some kind of templar class mechanic for magicka would be nice. Nerf blazing shield for all I care (I say just undo the buff they gave it so that you don't remember magicka when its up, then no spamming or gg templar).

But for the love of god its a joke if you say templar heals are cheap... A dps templar doesn't need much magicka so I am guessing that is where youre getting this misconception as they don't need to heal much, just spam cheap blazing shield/spears. Even then that templar build is gimmicky as f*ck. Idiots die to that garbage (I know because I've run it). When your build relies on your opponent's stupidity its not a good build across the board. I half think the reason Zeni hasn't nerfed blazing shield spam is because they have no idea what to do to help templars if they nerf it because templars will likely be back in the gutter kill/tank wise. Sure we are great healers, but as I said in my opinion a magicka resource mechanic (doesn't have to be strong) but something is needed.

Keep in mind I'm not talking here about the 2 hander templar small man or 1v1 build that is out there because thats pretty strong, but not very useful in group fighting.

Good points about the Templar magicka management. I was more referring to the heal per magicka cost vs the dps per magicka cost. Its very difficult to kill a Templar if he is solely focused on surviving, as Mano proved yesterday.

Absolutely, templars if they are focused on survival are the hardest to kill in the game imo (some may say tank nightblades play well, but I guess it'll might depend on the situation, negates can make the nightblades pop while the templar is unaffected). I think it will come down to how they deal with blazing shield, a previous post of mike's is a good point. Regardless I think tweaking it is necessary so its not as stupid as it is now where people just spam it. Couple that with some better magicka management and I'd be a happy happy templar because blazing shield spam makes me ashamed to be a templar.

I think you may be right about the efficiency between heal per magicka and dps per magicka, its kind of what makes templar abilities very weird. Magicka management was a big problem near the end of the beta for templars they basically removed something similar to what NBs have with siphoning. Ever since its been difficult, sure there are plenty of ways we can handle it, but none of them are class specific and a lot tend to rely on others. Magicka harness was my go to because it was self reliant (which I prefer). We'll see how things go after 1.5, but if I had one wish it would be some kind of resource mechanic with magicka for templars. I'd give up blazing shield spam every... freaking... time...


Regardless as back on point with this thread, too much QQ about DK's, not enough pew pew. I see a kindred spirit in Jone's post. I considered freaking out about people claiming ulti's were generating ulti.... but I decided to do a little "serenity now" and chill.... I get modded enough as is .

I'm not too concerned with a DK's strength anymore, they took some nerfs and are in a pretty decent place. Battle roar is an interesting mechanic that makes builds and identifies the DK. Hard to balance sure because of how changes can change ulti generation, but I don't really think its game breaking right now as people claim. Hopefully they don't nerf it into the ground and its something like maybe only 500 or 600 resources instead of 700 base *shrug*. I guess I'll also mention that if the whole cost vs base cost thing is a bug or intended, regardless its not making a big deal. Sure if zeni gets around to it and can tell us if its a bug or not great, otherwise I'll worry about other things first. If its a bug they'll fix it eventually otherwise move on.

Lfehova

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

Am I missing something? You pop your ultimate and heal more with the passive in question than I do with any NB class skill. Then there is green dragon blood.

I don't have any class-based anything as a NB that can heal that much at once.

Maybe I am missing something, I don't play DK's.

Sorry. I meant as a healer for group. Not self healing.

Nightblade swallow soul resto healer is a beastly healer and same with sorc Lightning resto healer. Dat weapon damage for resto heals.

DKs got some new synergy added with igneous shield but it's an expensive temporary buff if you want to heal your group.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Some of you are missing the point.



It says it returns resources based off the Ultimate cost. NOT the base Ultimate cost.

Without emperor buffs, The standard costs 200 ult.



At Vampire stage 4, Bat Swarm costs 158. Yet it returns the same amount of resources back as an ultimate that costs 200.


For starters, at least fix this bug/problem.

And No.

It says ultimate's cost. If you look at tooltip in your skill tree. It says standard costs 200 and batswarm costs 200.

Also, who cares?

70% of 200 is 140
70% of 158 is 110.6

Omg that 30 magicka, stamina, and health. Learn to math. Quit this incessant posting about a bug that may not even be a bug due to vague wording by ZoS, and something that is truly an insignificant difference.

Close sypher thread.

Lfehova, there's no need to come across as aggressive towards Sypher mate. You can disagree of course and you do have a point that 40 in 800+ regen from Battle Roar is not really a game breaker or maker, just don't go in with personal targeting. There's enough of that on other threads.

Anyhow, like I said I'm on the camp that thinks Battle Roar itself is fine. The synergy with Combat Frenzy and Batswarm, is however a bit too strong for me. It's a bit of a cheese build, without meaning to offend people who run the most efficient build in the game. It's just natural that people will choose it.

Jack has a point that in certain circumstances the total regen achieved is much higher than anyone else would achieve. I do believe that DKs need better regen based on success to negate the fact we don't have escapes. Templars in particular however have neither an escape nor comparable magicka management. Though I believe Templars needs some Magicka love, maybe through a change to Repentance.

It's a personal opinion by all accounts, but I think being able to chain ulties is what's not cool. They'll have to carefully look at that with AoE caps being removed.

As somebody who plays a Sorc as much a DK, I don't feel DKs are too much of a problem for mobile classes. Hell, I can even stand my ground (outside a banner of course) and fight "mano a mano" no problem. I do it in duels. In group settings however, when the DK is using nearby randoms to get constant access to Battler Roar, I have to carefully kite and evade.

They did say they're looking at the whole thing though, so let's hope any changes are reasonable. The ZOS nerfhammer has been fairly brutal in the past

I agree with your points. All except one. Templars have plenty of sustain and their heals are relatively cheap and their blazing shield is unparalleled for shield per magicka cost. It takes me forever to kill a good Templar. I would assume the only time the Templar dies is when he finally runs out of magicka, so giving him more magicka could be dangerous to balance, since he's healing not just himself while sustaining, but others as well.

As for the aggression towards sypher, I pm'd him in game to explain this "bug". This is his third or fourth post about it. In addition, he has had three of his fanboys in the past week, PMing me to ask me why I dislike him, when I already told him straight to his face why. Posts like these contribute.

In what world are Templar heals cheap? They are the most expensive heal in the game. You have to compare apples to apples hova, if you're trying to say templar heals are cheap because templar healers will wear all 7 light armor, 3 magicka reduction enchants, seducers, etc. then compare it to someone who doesn't do the same than yeah they'll seem cheap. However, templar heals are ridiculous expensive (and thats fine because they are strong), but don't kid yourself in thinking they are cheap. I actually agree that Templars deserve better magicka management as they have basically nothing as far as class wise to manage that resource (repentance is an interesting idea, but could be broken in certain cases). Blazing shield can be cheap as well, but we are talking 2 different type of templars here and healing templars don't have the kind of sustain basically every other class does (through a combination of class passives/abilities) in fact we have nothing. Our crutch has been to have other healers around to spell symm or use magicka harness. Magicka harness is going out the window soon so basically you have to use tools that everyone else has access to (pots, spell symm, heavy attacks) while just being worse in general.

Some kind of templar class mechanic for magicka would be nice. Nerf blazing shield for all I care (I say just undo the buff they gave it so that you don't remember magicka when its up, then no spamming or gg templar).

But for the love of god its a joke if you say templar heals are cheap... A dps templar doesn't need much magicka so I am guessing that is where youre getting this misconception as they don't need to heal much, just spam cheap blazing shield/spears. Even then that templar build is gimmicky as f*ck. Idiots die to that garbage (I know because I've run it). When your build relies on your opponent's stupidity its not a good build across the board. I half think the reason Zeni hasn't nerfed blazing shield spam is because they have no idea what to do to help templars if they nerf it because templars will likely be back in the gutter kill/tank wise. Sure we are great healers, but as I said in my opinion a magicka resource mechanic (doesn't have to be strong) but something is needed.

Keep in mind I'm not talking here about the 2 hander templar small man or 1v1 build that is out there because thats pretty strong, but not very useful in group fighting.

Good points about the Templar magicka management. I was more referring to the heal per magicka cost vs the dps per magicka cost. Its very difficult to kill a Templar if he is solely focused on surviving, as Mano proved yesterday.

Absolutely, templars if they are focused on survival are the hardest to kill in the game imo (some may say tank nightblades play well, but I guess it'll might depend on the situation, negates can make the nightblades pop while the templar is unaffected). I think it will come down to how they deal with blazing shield, a previous post of mike's is a good point. Regardless I think tweaking it is necessary so its not as stupid as it is now where people just spam it. Couple that with some better magicka management and I'd be a happy happy templar because blazing shield spam makes me ashamed to be a templar.

I think you may be right about the efficiency between heal per magicka and dps per magicka, its kind of what makes templar abilities very weird. Magicka management was a big problem near the end of the beta for templars they basically removed something similar to what NBs have with siphoning. Ever since its been difficult, sure there are plenty of ways we can handle it, but none of them are class specific and a lot tend to rely on others. Magicka harness was my go to because it was self reliant (which I prefer). We'll see how things go after 1.5, but if I had one wish it would be some kind of resource mechanic with magicka for templars. I'd give up blazing shield spam every... freaking... time...


Regardless as back on point with this thread, too much QQ about DK's, not enough pew pew. I see a kindred spirit in Jone's post. I considered freaking out about people claiming ulti's were generating ulti.... but I decided to do a little "serenity now" and chill.... I get modded enough as is .

I'm not too concerned with a DK's strength anymore, they took some nerfs and are in a pretty decent place. Battle roar is an interesting mechanic that makes builds and identifies the DK. Hard to balance sure because of how changes can change ulti generation, but I don't really think its game breaking right now as people claim. Hopefully they don't nerf it into the ground and its something like maybe only 500 or 600 resources instead of 700 base *shrug*. I guess I'll also mention that if the whole cost vs base cost thing is a bug or intended, regardless its not making a big deal. Sure if zeni gets around to it and can tell us if its a bug or not great, otherwise I'll worry about other things first. If its a bug they'll fix it eventually otherwise move on.

You noticed all the people still commenting on ultis generating ultis too?

Lol this is why generally I hand shaped imprint on my face. I cosbtantly face palm reading these forums.

Rooty

How2DK:

Step 1. Apply face to keyboard.
Step 2. Go to Step 1.

Huntler

Lfehova wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

Am I missing something? You pop your ultimate and heal more with the passive in question than I do with any NB class skill. Then there is green dragon blood.

I don't have any class-based anything as a NB that can heal that much at once.

Maybe I am missing something, I don't play DK's.

Sorry. I meant as a healer for group. Not self healing.

Nightblade swallow soul resto healer is a beastly healer and same with sorc Lightning resto healer. Dat weapon damage for resto heals.

DKs got some new synergy added with igneous shield but it's an expensive temporary buff if you want to heal your group.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Some of you are missing the point.



It says it returns resources based off the Ultimate cost. NOT the base Ultimate cost.

Without emperor buffs, The standard costs 200 ult.



At Vampire stage 4, Bat Swarm costs 158. Yet it returns the same amount of resources back as an ultimate that costs 200.


For starters, at least fix this bug/problem.

And No.

It says ultimate's cost. If you look at tooltip in your skill tree. It says standard costs 200 and batswarm costs 200.

Also, who cares?

70% of 200 is 140
70% of 158 is 110.6

Omg that 30 magicka, stamina, and health. Learn to math. Quit this incessant posting about a bug that may not even be a bug due to vague wording by ZoS, and something that is truly an insignificant difference.

Close sypher thread.

Lfehova, there's no need to come across as aggressive towards Sypher mate. You can disagree of course and you do have a point that 40 in 800+ regen from Battle Roar is not really a game breaker or maker, just don't go in with personal targeting. There's enough of that on other threads.

Anyhow, like I said I'm on the camp that thinks Battle Roar itself is fine. The synergy with Combat Frenzy and Batswarm, is however a bit too strong for me. It's a bit of a cheese build, without meaning to offend people who run the most efficient build in the game. It's just natural that people will choose it.

Jack has a point that in certain circumstances the total regen achieved is much higher than anyone else would achieve. I do believe that DKs need better regen based on success to negate the fact we don't have escapes. Templars in particular however have neither an escape nor comparable magicka management. Though I believe Templars needs some Magicka love, maybe through a change to Repentance.

It's a personal opinion by all accounts, but I think being able to chain ulties is what's not cool. They'll have to carefully look at that with AoE caps being removed.

As somebody who plays a Sorc as much a DK, I don't feel DKs are too much of a problem for mobile classes. Hell, I can even stand my ground (outside a banner of course) and fight "mano a mano" no problem. I do it in duels. In group settings however, when the DK is using nearby randoms to get constant access to Battler Roar, I have to carefully kite and evade.

They did say they're looking at the whole thing though, so let's hope any changes are reasonable. The ZOS nerfhammer has been fairly brutal in the past

I agree with your points. All except one. Templars have plenty of sustain and their heals are relatively cheap and their blazing shield is unparalleled for shield per magicka cost. It takes me forever to kill a good Templar. I would assume the only time the Templar dies is when he finally runs out of magicka, so giving him more magicka could be dangerous to balance, since he's healing not just himself while sustaining, but others as well.

As for the aggression towards sypher, I pm'd him in game to explain this "bug". This is his third or fourth post about it. In addition, he has had three of his fanboys in the past week, PMing me to ask me why I dislike him, when I already told him straight to his face why. Posts like these contribute.

In what world are Templar heals cheap? They are the most expensive heal in the game. You have to compare apples to apples hova, if you're trying to say templar heals are cheap because templar healers will wear all 7 light armor, 3 magicka reduction enchants, seducers, etc. then compare it to someone who doesn't do the same than yeah they'll seem cheap. However, templar heals are ridiculous expensive (and thats fine because they are strong), but don't kid yourself in thinking they are cheap. I actually agree that Templars deserve better magicka management as they have basically nothing as far as class wise to manage that resource (repentance is an interesting idea, but could be broken in certain cases). Blazing shield can be cheap as well, but we are talking 2 different type of templars here and healing templars don't have the kind of sustain basically every other class does (through a combination of class passives/abilities) in fact we have nothing. Our crutch has been to have other healers around to spell symm or use magicka harness. Magicka harness is going out the window soon so basically you have to use tools that everyone else has access to (pots, spell symm, heavy attacks) while just being worse in general.

Some kind of templar class mechanic for magicka would be nice. Nerf blazing shield for all I care (I say just undo the buff they gave it so that you don't remember magicka when its up, then no spamming or gg templar).

But for the love of god its a joke if you say templar heals are cheap... A dps templar doesn't need much magicka so I am guessing that is where youre getting this misconception as they don't need to heal much, just spam cheap blazing shield/spears. Even then that templar build is gimmicky as f*ck. Idiots die to that garbage (I know because I've run it). When your build relies on your opponent's stupidity its not a good build across the board. I half think the reason Zeni hasn't nerfed blazing shield spam is because they have no idea what to do to help templars if they nerf it because templars will likely be back in the gutter kill/tank wise. Sure we are great healers, but as I said in my opinion a magicka resource mechanic (doesn't have to be strong) but something is needed.

Keep in mind I'm not talking here about the 2 hander templar small man or 1v1 build that is out there because thats pretty strong, but not very useful in group fighting.

Good points about the Templar magicka management. I was more referring to the heal per magicka cost vs the dps per magicka cost. Its very difficult to kill a Templar if he is solely focused on surviving, as Mano proved yesterday.

Absolutely, templars if they are focused on survival are the hardest to kill in the game imo (some may say tank nightblades play well, but I guess it'll might depend on the situation, negates can make the nightblades pop while the templar is unaffected). I think it will come down to how they deal with blazing shield, a previous post of mike's is a good point. Regardless I think tweaking it is necessary so its not as stupid as it is now where people just spam it. Couple that with some better magicka management and I'd be a happy happy templar because blazing shield spam makes me ashamed to be a templar.

I think you may be right about the efficiency between heal per magicka and dps per magicka, its kind of what makes templar abilities very weird. Magicka management was a big problem near the end of the beta for templars they basically removed something similar to what NBs have with siphoning. Ever since its been difficult, sure there are plenty of ways we can handle it, but none of them are class specific and a lot tend to rely on others. Magicka harness was my go to because it was self reliant (which I prefer). We'll see how things go after 1.5, but if I had one wish it would be some kind of resource mechanic with magicka for templars. I'd give up blazing shield spam every... freaking... time...


Regardless as back on point with this thread, too much QQ about DK's, not enough pew pew. I see a kindred spirit in Jone's post. I considered freaking out about people claiming ulti's were generating ulti.... but I decided to do a little "serenity now" and chill.... I get modded enough as is .

I'm not too concerned with a DK's strength anymore, they took some nerfs and are in a pretty decent place. Battle roar is an interesting mechanic that makes builds and identifies the DK. Hard to balance sure because of how changes can change ulti generation, but I don't really think its game breaking right now as people claim. Hopefully they don't nerf it into the ground and its something like maybe only 500 or 600 resources instead of 700 base *shrug*. I guess I'll also mention that if the whole cost vs base cost thing is a bug or intended, regardless its not making a big deal. Sure if zeni gets around to it and can tell us if its a bug or not great, otherwise I'll worry about other things first. If its a bug they'll fix it eventually otherwise move on.

You noticed all the people still commenting on ultis generating ultis too?

Lol this is why generally I hand shaped imprint on my face. I cosbtantly face palm reading these forums.

Its bad for my blood pressure...

Joy_Division

Stop nerfing ***.

DKs survive because: 1) the ones that make it on Youtube are good players 2) are able to perma block while spamming offensive skills 3) moron sorcerers cast crystal shards even though those huge flapping wings scream "DON'T!" 4) the harness magicka skill extended its benefits to other damage shields.

Now go onto youtube and watch other classes survive the same way, with their token class ability exchanged for scales (blazing shield - templar, streak - sorc, sap essence - NB).

One little factor you are discounting from your theory is that the DK has to *survive* against the 4 some odd opponents it is fighting in order to get that ultimate. And Mrs. Jones is exactly right with every point. They can't drop ultimates continuously unless in highly favorable circumstances, they have other classes keeping them alive, and the resources they are getting is good, but hardly a game changer - those 600 points of health you get are lost by a single hit from impulse.

Lfehova

Joy_Division wrote: »

Stop nerfing ***.

DKs survive because: 1) the ones that make it on Youtube are good players 2) are able to perma block while spamming offensive skills 3) moron sorcerers cast crystal shards even though those huge flapping wings scream "DON'T!" 4) the harness magicka skill extended its benefits to other damage shields.

Now go onto youtube and watch other classes survive the same way, with their token class ability exchanged for scales (blazing shield - templar, streak - sorc, sap essence - NB).

One little factor you are discounting from your theory is that the DK has to *survive* against the 4 some odd opponents it is fighting in order to get that ultimate. And Mrs. Jones is exactly right with every point. They can't drop ultimates continuously unless in highly favorable circumstances, they have other classes keeping them alive, and the resources they are getting is good, but hardly a game changer - those 600 points of health you get are lost by a single hit from impulse.

Amen.

Braidas

Rooty wrote: »

How2DK:

Step 1. Apply face to keyboard.
Step 2. Go to Step 1.

Wait....that's How2temp too...i'm noticing a pattern here

Armitas

Rooty wrote: »

How2DK:

Step 1. Apply face to keyboard.
Step 2. Go to Step 1.

Ah I see you are still using the old technique. There have been some advances to this technique that I find far more ergonomic. If you bring your keyboard to your face you can avoid neck injuries, and the arthritis. It also helps to avoid nose abrasion as the keyboard can now pivot over the nose much easier. So no more bottles of vasoline for face to keyboard performance.

I would advise using a wireless keyboard with this technique as the keyboard wire can present a choking hazard if you are not careful.

JackDaniell

Lfehova wrote: »

You have to look at this from a different perspective jack.

People who play ESO are so obsessed with each class being able to perform each role equally, but that is just unrealistic short of giving each class the same skills and passives.

Battle roar is definitely a strong passive. But I would argue that passive combined with reflective scales is one of the only reasons DKs can tank so well. DKs are meant to be the primary tank class, and to be the best at it.

Nightblades can rival a DK tank, see krim's video. Templars can definitely rival a DK tank with blazing shield. Sorcs cannot lol.

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

A DK has no executes, like a NB or sorc. They have no escapes like cloak or bolt. They have no dark exchange like sorcs. Or siphoning attacks like NB. Or repentance like Templars.

Yes battle roar is strong. And it can be utilized for some strong builds. But so are other classes in their own style of play. The problem with balance comes when people somehow get this messed up idea that each class should be on par with each other class at every role. That is unrealistic.

Would any sorc trade bolt escape for battle roar?

Any NB trade siphoning attacks for battle roar?

Any Templar trade blazing shield for battle roar?

I'd gladly trade my battle roar for any of those skills.

Battle Roar is fine as a passive until it becomes mixed with massive amounts of ults being fired off. The reason a DK can sand in s field against 15+ enemies is because their recourse management will scale up directly with the amount of people they are fighting. Now this in essence is not a bad thing, until the scaling begins o get out of hand.

Also, ill take you up on that trade for blazing shield for your battle roar

Braidas

Never played a dk, but in large battles i often find myself firing off bats before the last one is even finished....battle roar would be crazy o.O

JackDaniell

Braidas wrote: »

Never played a dk, but in large battles i often find myself firing off bats before the last one is even finished....battle roar would be crazy o.O

As having played a vampire temp I know full well how possible it is to fire off 6 swarms a minute in heated combat (With battle roar that would push me to just about 10000 Stamina and Magicka a minuite including my regens).

msawwan2ub17_ESO

JackDaniell wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

Never played a dk, but in large battles i often find myself firing off bats before the last one is even finished....battle roar would be crazy o.O

As having played a vampire temp I know full well how possible it is to fire off 6 swarms a minute in heated combat (With battle roar that would push me to just about 10000 Stamina and Magicka a minuite including my regens).

I would like to request a video of you firing 6 batswarms under a min.

I believe braides can do 10, but i dont believe you can do 5

yes i dont know who you are, but you are complaining about things you dont understand

like I said, any class need to live in a huge zerg is some healers and some greatly placed absorbtion field. and some roll doding and learn to play style.

but please, humble me by posting a video of you doing what you claimed

JackDaniell

Just a quick note:

Remember the intent of this post is to encourage thoughtful debate, not to flame or troll.

What would thoughts be on a system where Battle Roar had a cool down, of around 1 minute for example. If you re casted an ultimate before a minute passed you would get proportional diminishing returns from Battle Roar.

1st cast: Standard - Returns 840 Stamina, Magicka, and Health
2nd cast (after 30 seconds): Standard - Restores 420 Stamina, Magicka, and Health (50% reduced due to the cool down only being 50% past)

Each subsequent cast would then restart your cool down.

Please discuss!

Ifthir_ESO

Lfehova wrote: »

That's because you're thinking inside the box

Well it's not to say you can't use it with caltrops and other stuff, its not gonna really help you kill anyone because you nerf your DPS to use it.

Sure you can stand and (almost) infinite block + aoe with sap essence, other NB's do this, I think Krim runs a variant, but its not gonna kill most anyone, imo.

msawwan2ub17_ESO

JackDaniell wrote: »

Just a quick note:

Remember the intent of this post is to encourage thoughtful debate, not to flame or troll.

What would thoughts be on a system where Battle Roar had a cool down, of around 1 minute for example. If you re casted an ultimate before a minute passed you would get proportional diminishing returns from Battle Roar.

1st cast: Standard - Returns 840 Stamina, Magicka, and Health
2nd cast (after 30 seconds): Standard - Restores 420 Stamina, Magicka, and Health (50% reduced due to the cool down only being 50% past)

Each subsequent cast would then restart your cool down.

Please discuss!

yes

i support you completly.

i suggest we make battle roar increase health by 10 instead of givinge resources back, and if that was too much make it increase weapon dmg by 5.

I am almost at my point reading this forum lol. am going to make a new topic for the like of you.

brb <--- it means be right back

Ifthir_ESO

Aerrimus wrote: »

Is 140 magicka, stamina, and health really as great as some seem to be making it out to be?

Can you elaborate?

Ifthir_ESO

Rooty wrote: »

How2DK:

Step 1. Apply face to keyboard.
Step 2. Go to Step 1.

Did I mention I ruv you?

JackDaniell

msawwan2ub17_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Braidas wrote: »

Never played a dk, but in large battles i often find myself firing off bats before the last one is even finished....battle roar would be crazy o.O

As having played a vampire temp I know full well how possible it is to fire off 6 swarms a minute in heated combat (With battle roar that would push me to just about 10000 Stamina and Magicka a minuite including my regens).

I would like to request a video of you firing 6 batswarms under a min.

I believe braides can do 10, but i dont believe you can do 5

yes i dont know who you are, but you are complaining about things you dont understand

like I said, any class need to live in a huge zerg is some healers and some greatly placed absorbtion field. and some roll doding and learn to play style.

but please, humble me by posting a video of you doing what you claimed

Check out the later end of the clip when we are fighting larger numbers. This is some old footage of me and a couple friends defending sejanus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21UfAHGUwOY

Now take look at what prevents me from continuing to cast swarm, the lack of magicka. This is exactly the situation in which a DK would be able to continue casting.

No I am not able to cast 6 swarms in a row in this clip (I think I achieve 5 in about 45 seconds) due to me using clouding swarm over devouring. Devouring would have allowed me to shield stack harness to upkeep my magicka. I was also running a full DPS build as opposed to sustainability (favouring clouding as the ult due to invisibility).

JackDaniell

msawwan2ub17_ESO wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Just a quick note:

Remember the intent of this post is to encourage thoughtful debate, not to flame or troll.

What would thoughts be on a system where Battle Roar had a cool down, of around 1 minute for example. If you re casted an ultimate before a minute passed you would get proportional diminishing returns from Battle Roar.

1st cast: Standard - Returns 840 Stamina, Magicka, and Health
2nd cast (after 30 seconds): Standard - Restores 420 Stamina, Magicka, and Health (50% reduced due to the cool down only being 50% past)

Each subsequent cast would then restart your cool down.

Please discuss!

yes

i support you completly.

i suggest we make battle roar increase health by 10 instead of givinge resources back, and if that was too much make it increase weapon dmg by 5.

I am almost at my point reading this forum lol. am going to make a new topic for the like of you.

brb <--- it means be right back

I feel as if you are taking this thread as a personal attack on you and other DKs. This is not the threads intent. This thread is to simply promote discussion about what people may think is to much management for a passive like battle roar, and how it can begin to over perform in ultimate generating combat. The related discussion topics are: Is this to much? Does this perform as intended?

I will try to pull from your remarks, that you are in favour that this passive does not over perform in ultimate generating combat.

Manoekin

Lfehova wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Lfehova wrote: »

But a DK cannot heal anywhere close to the same as a Templar. Or even a sorc or NB.

Am I missing something? You pop your ultimate and heal more with the passive in question than I do with any NB class skill. Then there is green dragon blood.

I don't have any class-based anything as a NB that can heal that much at once.

Maybe I am missing something, I don't play DK's.

Sorry. I meant as a healer for group. Not self healing.

Nightblade swallow soul resto healer is a beastly healer and same with sorc Lightning resto healer. Dat weapon damage for resto heals.

DKs got some new synergy added with igneous shield but it's an expensive temporary buff if you want to heal your group.

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Some of you are missing the point.



It says it returns resources based off the Ultimate cost. NOT the base Ultimate cost.

Without emperor buffs, The standard costs 200 ult.



At Vampire stage 4, Bat Swarm costs 158. Yet it returns the same amount of resources back as an ultimate that costs 200.


For starters, at least fix this bug/problem.

And No.

It says ultimate's cost. If you look at tooltip in your skill tree. It says standard costs 200 and batswarm costs 200.

Also, who cares?

70% of 200 is 140
70% of 158 is 110.6

Omg that 30 magicka, stamina, and health. Learn to math. Quit this incessant posting about a bug that may not even be a bug due to vague wording by ZoS, and something that is truly an insignificant difference.

Close sypher thread.

Lfehova, there's no need to come across as aggressive towards Sypher mate. You can disagree of course and you do have a point that 40 in 800+ regen from Battle Roar is not really a game breaker or maker, just don't go in with personal targeting. There's enough of that on other threads.

Anyhow, like I said I'm on the camp that thinks Battle Roar itself is fine. The synergy with Combat Frenzy and Batswarm, is however a bit too strong for me. It's a bit of a cheese build, without meaning to offend people who run the most efficient build in the game. It's just natural that people will choose it.

Jack has a point that in certain circumstances the total regen achieved is much higher than anyone else would achieve. I do believe that DKs need better regen based on success to negate the fact we don't have escapes. Templars in particular however have neither an escape nor comparable magicka management. Though I believe Templars needs some Magicka love, maybe through a change to Repentance.

It's a personal opinion by all accounts, but I think being able to chain ulties is what's not cool. They'll have to carefully look at that with AoE caps being removed.

As somebody who plays a Sorc as much a DK, I don't feel DKs are too much of a problem for mobile classes. Hell, I can even stand my ground (outside a banner of course) and fight "mano a mano" no problem. I do it in duels. In group settings however, when the DK is using nearby randoms to get constant access to Battler Roar, I have to carefully kite and evade.

They did say they're looking at the whole thing though, so let's hope any changes are reasonable. The ZOS nerfhammer has been fairly brutal in the past

I agree with your points. All except one. Templars have plenty of sustain and their heals are relatively cheap and their blazing shield is unparalleled for shield per magicka cost. It takes me forever to kill a good Templar. I would assume the only time the Templar dies is when he finally runs out of magicka, so giving him more magicka could be dangerous to balance, since he's healing not just himself while sustaining, but others as well.

As for the aggression towards sypher, I pm'd him in game to explain this "bug". This is his third or fourth post about it. In addition, he has had three of his fanboys in the past week, PMing me to ask me why I dislike him, when I already told him straight to his face why. Posts like these contribute.

In what world are Templar heals cheap? They are the most expensive heal in the game. You have to compare apples to apples hova, if you're trying to say templar heals are cheap because templar healers will wear all 7 light armor, 3 magicka reduction enchants, seducers, etc. then compare it to someone who doesn't do the same than yeah they'll seem cheap. However, templar heals are ridiculous expensive (and thats fine because they are strong), but don't kid yourself in thinking they are cheap. I actually agree that Templars deserve better magicka management as they have basically nothing as far as class wise to manage that resource (repentance is an interesting idea, but could be broken in certain cases). Blazing shield can be cheap as well, but we are talking 2 different type of templars here and healing templars don't have the kind of sustain basically every other class does (through a combination of class passives/abilities) in fact we have nothing. Our crutch has been to have other healers around to spell symm or use magicka harness. Magicka harness is going out the window soon so basically you have to use tools that everyone else has access to (pots, spell symm, heavy attacks) while just being worse in general.

Some kind of templar class mechanic for magicka would be nice. Nerf blazing shield for all I care (I say just undo the buff they gave it so that you don't remember magicka when its up, then no spamming or gg templar).

But for the love of god its a joke if you say templar heals are cheap... A dps templar doesn't need much magicka so I am guessing that is where youre getting this misconception as they don't need to heal much, just spam cheap blazing shield/spears. Even then that templar build is gimmicky as f*ck. Idiots die to that garbage (I know because I've run it). When your build relies on your opponent's stupidity its not a good build across the board. I half think the reason Zeni hasn't nerfed blazing shield spam is because they have no idea what to do to help templars if they nerf it because templars will likely be back in the gutter kill/tank wise. Sure we are great healers, but as I said in my opinion a magicka resource mechanic (doesn't have to be strong) but something is needed.

Keep in mind I'm not talking here about the 2 hander templar small man or 1v1 build that is out there because thats pretty strong, but not very useful in group fighting.

Good points about the Templar magicka management. I was more referring to the heal per magicka cost vs the dps per magicka cost. Its very difficult to kill a Templar if he is solely focused on surviving, as Mano proved yesterday.

It's a sign that you should stop focusing me

Sanct16

I don't think its too much return.

Domander

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Are people not aware dragon nights are tanks? They are intended to take on 1vX and CC large gourps. Each class has their defined role to play. Battle roar is meant to make DKs a tank. There is nothing wrong with the passive and works as it should.

The nerf requests and requests for ZOS to fix or look into things that work fine are becoming rediculous. Learn to play your class and play it well. Not every class can be a tank.

I agree, nightblades have invisibility and improved burst, sorcerers are incredibly mobile, templars have class heals and some unique utility, DKs have survival.

LegendaryMage

Domander wrote: »

I agree, nightblades have invisibility and improved burst, sorcerers are incredibly mobile, templars have class heals and some unique utility, DKs have survival.

Ok, so I'm mobile. Now what?

Sorcs are fine though, just kidding.

About DK passive, it's cool - fix it if broken. Good luck everyone...

Durham

JackDaniell wrote: »

Hello everyone, just a topic that has fought my interest as of lately. Battle Roar, for those of you who may not know, is a Dragon Knight passive ability that returns recourses on ultimate cast, according to the initial cost of the ultimate.

Tool Tip: Battle Roar

Restore Health, Magicka, and Stamina. Restore amount increased by 70% of the ultimate cost.

Now the Base value restored for ANY ultimate casted is 700 Magicka, Health and Stamina at level 50. This is then increased by 70% of ultimate cost BEFORE and ultimate cost reduction effects.

For example: Standard of Might - Cost 200 ultimate

700 base value + 140 (70% of 200) Health, Magicka, and Stamina.

Devouring Swarm - Cost 200 ultimate (can have cost reduced by many methods but this does not effect return with battle roar)

700 base value + 140 (70% of 200) Health, Magicka, and Stamina.

What does this mean for Dragonknights? Every time they cast an ultimate ability they chug a tri pot (one of the host potions in the game - Restores around 700 Magicka, Health and Stamina). A pretty dam good passive if I don't say so myself.

So how much of an effect does this have? Well in small scale combat, not allot. If a DK cannot build ultimate quickly this is still a great passive, but its nothing to brag about. What about if a DK had access to AOE dot skills? AOE control skills? and could hit many many targets with them? Thats a recipe for allot of ultimate gain. Lets say that dragon knight can cast an ultimate like devouring swarm 3 times every minute (a low number for 1 minute of combat of that scale). That DK is essentially drinking 3 extra tri pots in that minuite.

A good sustaining build has an average stat restoration of about 4000 of each stat a minute while not using potions. That means if that DK gets 3 ultimates off he gets an extra 2520 of each stat onto of that. Now lets think about the DKs we know in PvP, maybe we are one. Do they cast their ultimate only 3 times a minute? Chances are no. The DK builds that are viewed as some of the best can almost indefinitely sustain devouring swarm while in the aforementioned combat conditions (Thats 1 ultimate cast every 6 seconds assuming they can generate the ultimate).

So now lets get to the reason as why battle roar may be the single factor that causes a Dragon Knight to seem so strong. Yes they have very good skills, but so do other classes. But the right combination of these skills can be used to generate allot of ultimate (Talons, Inhale, Reflective Scales) And then if a kill is made more ultimate is rewarded (depending the the rank of the player of course). This then essentially makes a Dragon Knight much more powerful as they have more opponents to fight. But when they fight alone they are for the most part on par.

Now I hope this provides valuable insight as to the appearance of a Dragon Knight being the best class in PvP, especially when outnumbered. In theory, a DK could invest all their gear and stats into increased damage and cost reduction, and sustain themselves in outnumbered combat relying almost solely on Battle Roar. Perhaps this was intend by Zenimax, perhaps it was not. But NO other class can restore recourses like this when in disadvantageous (number wise) combat. Now it makes sense why a DK an block for days while getting slammed on by a zerg.

If you want to see yourself watch any Dragon Knight video on the internet and look at the recourse management. To paraphrase myself, perhaps this should be an issue looked at by Zenimax, perhaps it is the way they intended it. That I do not know, but let me know what you all think.

Please let me know your opinion to @ZOS_BrianWheeler !

Current discussion: Perhaps a cool down on battle roar would be balancing?

Edit: Incorrectly quoted base return value as 600 when it was in fact 700

The average DK are no longer all that tough to kill... keep in mind you are talking about a class that has no range nor escape.. yea they are hard to take down because they are suppose to...