Invulnerability exploit.

murphy1337ub17_ESO

This is a joke that the main two suspects are still exploiting this, I guess it's time for me to go vamp and do it since there is literally no drawback. zos refuses to do *** even with the numerous reports and video evidence.

krim

murphy1337ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is a joke that the main two suspects are still exploiting this, I guess it's time for me to go vamp and do it since there is literally no drawback. zos refuses to do *** even with the numerous reports and video evidence.

Let me know how it goes for you.

Luvsfuzzybunnies

Kypho wrote: »

McDonuts wrote: »

Glad I only came across this once, and I believe it was accidental on that person. However, I have still unsubbed, as 1.4 eliminated the small amount of faith I had left. Fortunately, my brother and I are enjoying the release of another, truly "play as you want" MMO.

what mmo is that?

Columba wrote: »

McDonuts wrote: »

Glad I only came across this once, and I believe it was accidental on that person. However, I have still unsubbed, as 1.4 eliminated the small amount of faith I had left. Fortunately, my brother and I are enjoying the release of another, truly "play as you want" MMO.

Which one? Some of us are looking for a new one.

Rhymes with smarcage

Bouvin

Reminds me of the good ole' UO days

Ezareth

murphy1337ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is a joke that the main two suspects are still exploiting this, I guess it's time for me to go vamp and do it since there is literally no drawback. zos refuses to do *** even with the numerous reports and video evidence.

Sadly ZoS isn't going to fix this until we start seeing people abusing it on a massive scale. If you know how to do it, go for it.

Monsoon

It is not just one person...yesterday in Cyrodiil I had many people from AD on Thornblade, at least 8, having no health dropping whatsoever...none which is pissing me off when you have these dirtbag exploiters who run firering+streak+swarm and get no [snip] damage on them. They blink in groups, stun everybody and lock them in places with streak+rings+swarms and then run back to their keep.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Columba

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

murphy1337ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is a joke that the main two suspects are still exploiting this, I guess it's time for me to go vamp and do it since there is literally no drawback. zos refuses to do *** even with the numerous reports and video evidence.

Sadly ZoS isn't going to fix this until we start seeing people abusing it on a massive scale. If you know how to do it, go for it.

No thanks. I will just go play Archage instead. so sad.

Bezilar

Monsoon wrote: »

It is not just one person...yesterday in Cyrodiil I had many people from AD on Thornblade, at least 8, having no health dropping whatsoever...none which is pissing me off when you have these dirtbag exploiters who run firering+streak+swarm and get no [snip] damage on them. They blink in groups, stun everybody and lock them in places with streak+rings+swarms and then run back to their keep.
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

posers, lol

Tintinabula

when a Dk and a sorc and a templar kill me and literally every spell is fire ring fire ring cloudswarm, something is wrong.
Who cares what class you play. That's irrelevant now. All you need is maxed weapon damage..check!

Destruction staff with fire ring ...check!

Clouding Swarm check!

Its frustrating when DKs don't beat you with DK spells.

Columba

this situation reminds me of eve where the developers were in league with the cheaters and exploiters, actively cheating the paying players. Honestly, when the answer to this blatant exploit is "that is a skilled player" I can come to no other conclusion that the employees of this game are in league with the cheaters and participating themselves. if they'd communicate about this in an honest way instead of hiding, i might think differently.

Srugzal

Columba wrote: »

this situation reminds me of eve where the developers were in league with the cheaters and exploiters, actively cheating the paying players. Honestly, when the answer to this blatant exploit is "that is a skilled player" I can come to no other conclusion that the employees of this game are in league with the cheaters and participating themselves. if they'd communicate about this in an honest way instead of hiding, i might think differently.

Okay, take a step back. If you can. I know this discussion has been heated, but let's not let things get out of control. You're accusing the company or company employees of colluding with players to throw the outcome of PvP battles.

Are you even dimly aware of HOW RIDICULOUS THAT SOUNDS? Before you blow up, accuse me of trolling, or any of the other things passionate people do when they're caught saying something silly, answer this.

What's in it for ZOS?

Seriously, why would they possibly, in a million years even, want to DO such a thing? THERE IS NO MONEY INVOLVED. THERE IS NO PRESTIGE INVOLVED. There is no upside for ZOS at all for doing this. I mean, get real.

As far as ZOS is concerned, they anticipated that clever players would come up with unit tactics that would be difficult to counter. This is only the latest. They've shown in other contexts that they will make a good faith effort to address exploitable issues, like bugs that allowed arbitrary AoE targets. That's been part of the evolution of the game, which has just begun.

If it becomes clear that there is something here that is broken, they will fix it. In the meantime, accusing ZOS of having a hand in cheating is just ridiculous.

If that's what you are sincerely believe, then you should go play something else. You're never going to be happy no matter what they or you do.

There's a word for being in that state. It's called "divorce."

Asgari

I don't think some in this thread know what is really being discussed here. There are a few known EP players who have been video recorded by multiple players openly abusing the %75 mitigation that mist form yields and having that mitigation be up all the time (when not in mist form).

I still have yet to get a response from zos about these players and why nothing is being done.

Columba

Why the silence? why not tell us what they are doing? Just tell us if this is intended or not. Why remove the videos showing the exploits? I here your logic, but I'd like to understand why they refuse to fess up to this. I am speculating reasons not accusing them of anything. Let's see if they will be honest with us and tell us whether this is acceptable or not.

Srugzal

Columba wrote: »

Why the silence? why not tell us what they are doing? Just tell us if this is intended or not. Why remove the videos showing the exploits? I here your logic, but I'd like to understand why they refuse to fess up to this. I am speculating reasons not accusing them of anything. Let's see if they will be honest with us and tell us whether this is acceptable or not.

How could they ever do what you're asking? First of all, "name-and-shame" videos get deleted. Period, there's no negotiation about that. They should never have been posted. They're still out there on YouTube, everyone knows about them and who the players are. But those videos don't belong here, they never did. Get over it.

However, having "named and shamed," how is ZOS to say "we're investigating this" without, by implication at least, pointing an accusing finger at those before mentioned "named and shamed" players? They can't. They have a strict policy of not commenting on TOS violation claims. Also, by saying "this is an exploit" they're also violating their policy about not talking about exploits.

People in this thread (not to mention elsewhere), by their insistence on naming particular players, have essentially insured that we'll never know.

I think that the best we can hope for is that the root cause is identified, a fix -- if necessary -- is applied, and the furor dies down because the exploit goes away.

But the point is this: we'll never know what they did, if anything, because they won't make exceptions to the name-and-shame rule, not even for this.

They've shown us very clearly that no amount of screaming will induce ZOS to change their policy. Actually, that means that they really are taking this seriously.

Columba

they could do plenty. seriously. how about "this is not intended and we are working on a fix?" how about " we need more information to help us fix this?" how about "We know this is a problem and we will get it fixed?" their comment that this god mode is from skilled play is laughable. They refuse to communicate, so they will have to deal with our suspicions and bad mouthing.

the anti name and shaming policy is nonsense too. is insures that cheaters remain free to do whatever they want.

Srugzal

Columba wrote: »

the anti name and shaming policy is nonsense too. is insures that cheaters remain free to do whatever they want.

You didn't get my point, but that's okay. You needed to vent again. Fine.

Have a nice day.

Columba

i disagree with it. get over it.

Erock25

c.gregoryb14_ESO wrote: »

Monsoon wrote: »

It is not just one person...yesterday in Cyrodiil I had many people from AD on Thornblade, at least 8, having no health dropping whatsoever...none which is pissing me off when you have these dirtbag exploiters who run firering+streak+swarm and get no f'ing damage on them. They blink in groups, stun everybody and lock them in places with streak+rings+swarms and then run back to their keep.

posers, lol

they laughing in your face @zos

TheBull

Columba wrote: »

this situation reminds me of eve where the developers were in league with the cheaters and exploiters, actively cheating the paying players. Honestly, when the answer to this blatant exploit is "that is a skilled player" I can come to no other conclusion that the employees of this game are in league with the cheaters and participating themselves. if they'd communicate about this in an honest way instead of hiding, i might think differently.

Didn't you say you were quitting to play Arch Age the other day?

Ezareth

I've only seen 4 EP players using this exploit for sure.

I know ZoS has no hand in it and the suggestion is laughable.

I've watched several people on my side (AD) that were suggested to be cheating and found it not to be the case. That is ultimately the problem with an exploit like this existing. People will blame their losses on exploits where no other known solution is found.

ZoS could have made an announcement anywhere that this is a bug/exploit and that it will be fixed in a future patch and I'd be fine. I don't even care about banning the cheaters, I've lost count of the number of players I've seen exploiting in the past who are still playing. The players using this exploit are easily ignored and they're bad enough that they really don't make an impact in the game.

I just think this exploit falls in the line of bugs that Zeni can't fix. They seem to have very little control over their code and I'm thinking it is because they're using Havok but who really knows.

To put it in a sad financial light, PvPers make up about 25,000 subscriptions total. When you count all of the campaigns and multiply AD by 3, that's what you get. A small fraction of the population playing this game and the amount of time they're going to spend fixing PvP bugs is reflected in that.

TheBull

This has turned into a witch hunt.

Columba

I wish. witches were efficiently dealt with. It didn't take years of "we are looking into it"

Xael

moot

Columba

then if their code is at fault, then it's even worse.

Xael

Columba wrote: »

then if their code is at fault, then it's even worse.

I agree and this is most likely the case going by all the evidence.

Ezareth

Xael wrote: »

What really astounds me is the gross parroting going on here.

Not a single one of you have any proof whatsoever as to the cause of this alleged exploit. So far I have seen videos of different classes who at times are taking 0 damage for long periods of time. We know it's not limited to Sorcs as we have seen templars can do it. Throughout these videos they either take no damage at all, or little bits here and there. There is something to be said of the rumors I have been reading...

The mistform argument:
Notice the lack of Mistform present (visually and audibly... you should hear it) and the fact you can't cancel the ability once you use it. That said (if you believe it's mistform somehow), this is something they are doing long before running into you guys and it's having a lasting maybe even permanent effect.

The problem with this conjecture is that there are times when they have 0 shields up and still take 0 damage. That's right scholars, 0 damage. If this were a permanent flexible mistform you would see 75% mitigation across the board, something all of these videos lack. More importantly without the shields you would catch heals making up for the damage lost. No, they are immune to damage several times in these videos. Completely immune.

What really blows my mind is the "I don't exactly know how the bug works... but I know a guy that knows a guy who once knew a dude..." type of nonsense. Use some common sense people. You are perpetuating speculative hearsay that has 0 evidence other than someone claiming to know someone who might know something. This is silly.

ESO throughout it's history has had exploits, no doubt (people doing 7k heavy attacks with melee swings). However it's also had trigger happy people who are quick to jump the gun before they know what is going on around them. That's not to say nothing is wrong, something is clearly wrong here. Yet that does not stop the double speaking foolishness I am seeing here. You either know what's going on, or you don't. Several of you have already admitted you don't. That said, shut up about it being certain abilities. You don't know... remember?

And before you make me your enemy hear me out and read what I wrote, particularly below.

The indisputable facts at hand:

• People are taking no damage.
• People are taking little damage.
• No visual or audible Mistform.
• No shields up when taking zero damage.
• Even a HoT would be noticeable to someone dumping on 75% mitigation.
• Nobody recording these videos is using CLS showing data.
• Nobody complaining can replicate this alleged exploit.
• Nobody complaining knows what the alleged exploit even is.
• Some of you are claiming to know someone who knows someone who may be able to replicate this or knows exactly how it works.
• None of these videos showcasing alleged hackers predate the 20th of August. (This is important and explained below)

The fact remains, there is a lot of unknown area here. This could very well be a passive working with an armor set or a even a mundus. The truth is, nobody here knows except maybe those using it. Provided they are not bugged permanently and just happened to come together over this bug and decide to have fun with it. Things like this do happen. Especially when people had the super speed back in June. I knew 3 people who didn't even know each that met in Wabba and decided to play together because they shared the same bug.

Lastly and most importantly, none of the videos I have seen are before the week of August 20th.

It is verifed from ZOS that week and prior people were doing more damage in PvP than they were supposed to. People were doing obscene amount of damage where they shouldn't. This (like your alleged exploit videos) was recorded by people showcasing their silly damage ( charges for 2k+ etc).
You can find Gina Bruno's post confirming this here: (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/124067/known-issues-for-update-3). "We are aware of an issue where some of you are able to do more damage than intended. " ~ Gina Bruno (by "do more" she really meant, "where you were once hitting for 1k at best, you now do 2500 or more")

Also something of note, it was never fixed on the date given. If you check youtube there are plenty of people streaming a week after showing the extra damage is still there.

Why am I mentioning this? It is noteworthy there was a bug where people were doing increased unintended damage. It is even more curious the alleged invuln exploiter videos began surfacing after the increased damage was fixed. I know for certain increased damage was going on after the 14th. It wasn't until the 20th or so that this was fixed. Do you see the dots to connect here?

Almost every major screw-up this game has had was predicated on a ZOS update.
"Hey guys we are going to adjust Silver Bolts a little."
Boom, 1 shot ability against all vamps. I was getting hit for 3k damage. You can find my screenshots posted on these very forums, look me up here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1049811#Comment_1049811
"Hey guys, we are changing the way lighting works and sprucing things up a bit."
Boom, insta FPS drop. Players were diving down to 1-4 FPS and forced to log out to correct it, only to have it happen again moments later. This lasted for a few weeks. Patch 1.2.4. Remember? http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1049811#Comment_1049811
"Hey guys, we feel DarkStalker from Vampire should not stack with Night's Silence set. Moving this fast in stealth was never intended. You will either have to choose Dark Stalker or Night's Silence, not both."
Boom, now not only does the 5 piece bonus from Night's Silence not work AT ALL but stealth detection radius is now busted, Stealthy racial busted, Nightshade armor set doesn't work either, etc. Do you not see the pattern with ZOS patches?

Anyhow, this is par for the course with ZOS. I am not surprised these reports are happening on the tail end of an emergency fix for "too much" damage. It makes perfect sense people are mitigating damage either completely or almost completely after that update. More importantly is the lack of transparency from ZOS on the matter or banning of those doing it.

The reason these alleged hacks are not being banned or actions being taken is likely due to ZOS knowing it is their fault with crappy coding and not testing their updates (AS USUAL). This would explain them being tight-lipped despite evidence something is wrong. Remember, they shut down parts of the game because of duping, real cheating. What they didn't take action on was insane speed (May/June), insane damage (May/June), silver bolts (around 1.2.4), insane damage again (August), now mitigation. I know I am missing a few, this post is long enough... the common thread being ZOS tight lipped and no perceived actions taken. I do know they will try and cover their ass, either through denial or some form of deflection, probably avoiding it as long as they can. Anyhow, this makes much more sense than the 12 pages of "wtf?

So basically you came in and tried to summarize a thread without reading all of it.

Well I've spent quite a bit of time researching and documenting exactly how this bug works. As I also said I know someone who knows how this exploit works because they were using it and they told me it was an exploit. I didn't ask them exactly how it was done as they were already pretty wary of me reporting them and I was just happy to have it confirmed that it was an exploit. Another person confirmed to me that the devs are aware of it as one of them is their guild. He could have been full of it, but I believed him and it's beside the point.

I've discarded the certainty that it is related to mistform, the only reason I called it the mistform exploit is because originally several people who I talked to about the bug said that mistform could be bugged by escaping to a menu twice and I've never been a vampire so I couldn't test it. The only reason I personally think it is tied to mistform is because of the similarity to it and the fact each exploiter is a vampire and I've seen these exploiters take NORMAL damage *after* using mistform legitimately.

What I *do* know is that all 4 people I've seen using this exploit take exactly -68.5% mitigation. If you'd read through the thread you'd see we tried to figure out how to arrive at that number and haven't been able to.

The zero damage occurs after using harness magicka. I believe the game removes the graphic of the harness magicka when the correct amount of damage is taken yet the shield remains active for the full 20 seconds as the player is actually taking zero damage.

At this point I've stopped trying to figure out the exploit as I believe the devs are aware of it and I'm wasting my time trying to figure out something I'd never use myself.

I'm also 100% certain this bug has existed well before August 20th...at least for the past 3 months as I've observed this player using it for this long. You would have discovered all of this had you read the thread before posting.

The tail end is just a bunch of angry repetitive moaning over a lack of a response from ZoS but the center is where the research and facts are laid out.

Phinix1

Thank god there are finally some decent new games coming out. I have had about enough of this paying to wait for ZOS to get a clue.

I love TES, and ESO, but I feel this game is still a good 6-10 months away from being a viable product with functional PVP.

Xael

moot

Columba

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Well I've spent quite a bit of time researching and documenting exactly how this bug works. As I also said I know someone who knows how this exploit works because they were using it and they told me it was an exploit. I didn't ask them exactly how it was done as they were already pretty wary of me reporting them and I was just happy to have it confirmed that it was an exploit. Another person confirmed to me that the devs are aware of it as one of them is their guild. He could have been full of it, but I believed him and it's beside the point.

I've discarded the certainty that it is related to mistform, the only reason I called it the mistform exploit is because originally several people who I talked to about the bug said that mistform could be bugged by escaping to a menu twice and I've never been a vampire so I couldn't test it. The only reason I personally think it is tied to mistform is because of the similarity to it and the fact each exploiter is a vampire and I've seen these exploiters take NORMAL damage *after* using mistform legitimately.

What I *do* know is that all 4 people I've seen using this exploit take exactly -68.5% mitigation. If you'd read through the thread you'd see we tried to figure out how to arrive at that number and haven't been able to.

The zero damage occurs after using harness magicka. I believe the game removes the graphic of the harness magicka when the correct amount of damage is taken yet the shield remains active for the full 20 seconds as the player is actually taking zero damage.

At this point I've stopped trying to figure out the exploit as I believe the devs are aware of it and I'm wasting my time trying to figure out something I'd never use myself.

I'm also 100% certain this bug has existed well before August 20th...at least for the past 3 months as I've observed this player using it for this long. You would have discovered all of this had you read the thread before posting.

The tail end is just a bunch of angry repetitive moaning over a lack of a response from ZoS but the center is where the research and facts are laid out.

thank you. this is exactly correct and strengthens my suspicion that zenimax is complicit.

Ezareth

Xael wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

So basically you came in and tried to summarize a thread without reading all of it.

Well I've spent quite a bit of time researching and documenting exactly how this bug works. As I also said I know someone who knows how this exploit works because they were using it and they told me it was an exploit. I didn't ask them exactly how it was done as they were already pretty wary of me reporting them and I was just happy to have it confirmed that it was an exploit. Another person confirmed to me that the devs are aware of it as one of them is their guild. He could have been full of it, but I believed him and it's beside the point.

I've discarded the certainty that it is related to mistform, the only reason I called it the mistform exploit is because originally several people who I talked to about the bug said that mistform could be bugged by escaping to a menu twice and I've never been a vampire so I couldn't test it. The only reason I personally think it is tied to mistform is because of the similarity to it and the fact each exploiter is a vampire and I've seen these exploiters take NORMAL damage *after* using mistform legitimately.

What I *do* know is that all 4 people I've seen using this exploit take exactly -68.5% mitigation. If you'd read through the thread you'd see we tried to figure out how to arrive at that number and haven't been able to.

The zero damage occurs after using harness magicka. I believe the game removes the graphic of the harness magicka when the correct amount of damage is taken yet the shield remains active for the full 20 seconds as the player is actually taking zero damage.

At this point I've stopped trying to figure out the exploit as I believe the devs are aware of it and I'm wasting my time trying to figure out something I'd never use myself.

I'm also 100% certain this bug has existed well before August 20th...at least for the past 3 months as I've observed this player using it for this long. You would have discovered all of this had you read the thread before posting.

The tail end is just a bunch of angry repetitive moaning over a lack of a response from ZoS but the center is where the research and facts are laid out.

Oh really? I just read through a 12 page thread where you not only DID NOT explain the bug and how it works, but you admitted you don't know how it works and only know someone who allegedly knows. What's with this vacillation?

Again, you know someone who said something? Whoah.

More importantly again no evidence, just the word of someone who is more than likely lying. So why open with "I've spent quite a bit of time researching and documenting exactly how this bug works."? In light of everything else you said this is extremely contradictory.

You may no longer believe it's mistform, but due to crying wolf tons of people all over the forums are perpetuating this mythos. In fact I am here in this thread because I heard about it this very way. Also the lack of mistform in the videos and the consistent full immunity is not in line with how Mistform works.
I did read through the thread and I watched the recorded videos. I saw them taking 0 damage for extended periods of time. I have a former Emp vr14 Sorc who does crazy damage. There is no way Harness Magicka will endure 3 of my nukes back to back. That said, it would be the same case for the guys in your video. Also it's kind of hard for them to sneak a reapplication when they are lying flat on their back. Now the ability very well may be bugged, however I have yet to see it on others or on myself. This of course is my subjective experience.


Hearsay doesn't work for me. If you had read what I wrote, you would know I am only going by evidence I look at it. Not take your word when you might be incorrect.

The tail end has turned into people gabbing all over the forum about how mistform and vampire broke the game because they are overpowered. This is how I found out about all of this..

Actually there are little facts other than what I summarized in my point by point. Those are indisputable based on observable evidence we can go back and watch over and over. Furthermore what videos we have are all post 20th and there are no CLS meters or anything to make sound judgement calls. Only hearsay and "he said, she said" silliness. I am flexible and willing to consider observable evidence, but I will not jump on a bandwagon based purely around hearsay.

Anyhow it's late and my eyes burn, time to crash out.

-cheers

Again I *saw* this person using the exploit and called them out on it. This isn't I know someone who said something, this is I saw the exploit and the person in question admitted to using it. He also wasn't using it when I attacked him later.

The title of this thread is invulnerability exploit. I call it mistform exploit but who knows exactly what it is other than the people who use it.

If you watch my videos you can see exactly how much damage they are taking via FTC and combat text from my abilities and compare it to the full damage they should be taking. I've even explained the numbers in the video and there are points in the video where they take full damage like the 550 damage the templar takes from me right after mistforming.

I don't know how else to convince you it is an exploit other than all other possible explanations have been reasoned away. There are hordes of people out there with video evidence of this guy sniping him while he has no shields up for -68.5% less damage than they should have done.

What I was explaining about Harness magicka is has been confirmed (once again had you read the entire thread) that Mistform (and all mitigation) is additive. If you already have mistform(-75%) or a -68.5% Exploit debuff then harness magicka -50% (for spells) is added to that giving you spell invulnerability. So yes 3 of your spells would not break harness magicka on someone using this exploit.

As far as a "reapplication" I don't know. As far as I know this could be an actual hack similar to the speed hack which can be turned on and off. I've seen that done with no animations on the character.