Add children to ESO?

Zorrashi

Yes, add them

ShadowHvo wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

... Tamriel is a sick, twisted and horrible world when you dig deep enough.

Total number of children in Tamriel ever seen in the history of TES, 49.
Number of killable children in Tamriel, 0.
Really sick and horrible. Children can't seem to die until they are old enough. So twisted.

We have gods dedicated to murder, cannibalism and defilement, slavery too. Several races partake widely in the different elements as well. If you ask me, it is absolutely hypocritical to be completely fine with slavery, defilement and murder of all sorts, but will go beserk if they see a child getting slapped across the face in a video game.

Have you forgotten about the aedra? The nine divines can easily represent the 'good' qualities like chastity, leadership and defending of the weak. Save for the dunmer and argonians, almost every other culture tends to sway more toward aedra or their respective ancestors. Even the dunmer under the tribunal are warned against the study of the daedra (and in some cases, downright illegal).
While a few are still advocating for slavery (mainly RP and partially in game), the very fact that argonian slavery was abolished is enough proof that there is at least some semblance of more modern ideas regarding freedom (however limited it may be) in this setting.

Implying that the game is only about murder, killing and thievery is just highly misleading given the game's actual depth in terms of morals. You don't just 'murder'. The game makes it clear that you kill the enemies of your state. In other words, it makes it so that you actually perform a good service to your faction. Those bandits you killed? It doesn't matter that you were only in it for their screaming. You ridded your province of pesky caravan raiders and ruffians that were wanted under the law. The daedra you slaughtered? The game does not think that you did it for the thrill, but for the justice within you that made you purge 'evil' influence from the mortal realm.
Of the few quests that seem more grim on their sequence, the game has made them so rare in their appearance that they actually seem like a rarity on occasion.

Your reasons are yours and your alone. No one denies that, but the game gives a pretty clear premise about the mode of thinking in the world.

Instead of it being hypocritical, it would be contradictory to the game if children were easily killable without substantial consequence precisely because of the setting presented. Of societies. Of regimes. Of governments. Though they may be conflicting, the game hardly goes into anywhere close to the idea of that you seem to be thinking of.

Now if the children were outside of the safely guarded cities on the other hand....then yeah. Some 'unfortunate' things can easily occur...

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Whenever you like it or not, Tamriel is a twisted place. We have many hidden references to disgusting elements here in life which hopefully all in this forum find to be a disgrace in real life. BUT we're playing a fantasy epic, and can therefore explore said disgusting elements IF we wish to. It is not forced upon us, yet it is a choice the player has.

Yes, Tamriel does have some dark undertones that seep through if you know where to look. But they are hidden or otherwise 'diluted' in most instances, hence why their nature is so sublime in presentation and actually makes them a more than decent aspect of the game. I respect that nuance.

Despite the fact that this is game full of pixilated images, it still stands that the contents are subject to the contemplation of those in reality.
Does the killing of children matter? To you, it seems like it means little. But to others, it can mean a lot. So saying that killable should be included in the game "because it is fantasy game" is not really applicable to a certain extent. For there does exist one, pivotal aspect of reality that makes it way into the game even if only slightly. Players.
Players who are very clearly of reality and are highly influenced by reality. Players who interact with this living fantasy world while looking through their particular and personalized lens that is may not easily freed from the self-imposed stain-glass of society.

seanvwolf

No, don't add them

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

A fantasy realm (Elder Scrolls) which contains magic, lizard / cat people, elves, dragons, hordes of undead, etc. should never be taken seriously...

A fantasy realm which until Skyrim never featured children. Please just forget everything you know about the TES franchise just because it was in the last (imo smallest) game in the franchise. And we'll all just listen with rapture as you try to feel good about why you think having the ability for simulated infanticide is so acceptable, desired or necessary. Please, do go on.

Psychobunni

No, don't add them

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Sad to see so many delusional people with the inability to separate reality from fantasy.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language.

I guess a lot of people also forgot this is an M rated game and that children die every single day. A fantasy realm (Elder Scrolls) which contains magic, lizard / cat people, elves, dragons, hordes of undead, etc. should never be taken seriously...

I bet a lot of the loons here think that video games cause violent behavior too, but ignore that bad parenting and actual mental illnesses are the real issues people should be focusing on.

I could honestly care less if we have legions of immortal children in this game. The only reason Skyrim didn't release killable children was because of backlash from idiots who thought video games were real apparently; I mean, there is still full voiced dialog in Skyrim for the deaths of children in it.

I wonder how many millions of npcs we've all killed since launch...I don't see people complaining about that, or why isn't this game getting heavy protest for killing animals?

Too many children playing an M rated game it seems...remember everyone, we are talking about PIXELS.

But you are only thinking inside your little box. You are not mentally ill, therefore you can separate the difference, so therefore in your mind its a non-issue.

However, from a legal standpoint ZOS has to consider that there may be a mentally ill player, and if they did something insane and it could be blamed on them in any way, then they might face a lawsuit, (probably win) but spend millions doing so in legal cost.

So over all of the things that they could implement into the game, why would they chose one that has just as much potential to harm them as it does anything else. It couldn't even be a selling point from a PR point of view.

You have to think past your POV to everything they have to look at when deciding to implement.

(and no, I don't think killing pixels makes us go kill people, I do however believe that entertainment killing does make us more numb to real life killing, and thus a *part* in why we can't get a grip on things we should not be just accepting as another news story)

BBSooner

Antiquity wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heinous acts are left out of sandbox features because of the distasteful nature they provide. As such, we won't see *** or other forms of sexual abuse that players can inflict indiscriminately on NPCs, we won't see hate groups or torture that players can inflict indiscriminately on NPCs, and we likely won't see child murder (or infanticide for that matter) for the exact same reasons.

The validity or purpose of the act is null when the act can be performed in the absence of purpose, especially in what is supposed to be a broad appeal avenue of entertainment. So no, an RPers reasons for killing random kid #113 are not valid.

Heinous acts? Like quest options based on blatant racism? Helping out a band of assassins? Leaving someone who has been poisoned to die? Leaving someone to be tortured eternally? Which are all already in the game.

Everything described here is a plot point delivered via a quest. It's given purpose through connotation, the only truly immoral free act we have access to is the murder of adults once justice system hits. A quest where the death of a child could occur would be a powerful quest morally, yet it would pale in comparison in terms of inappropriateness to the freedom of committing murder againsts children or infanticide through sheer whim. I agree that we'll have to agree to disagree though.

Gidorick

Yes, add them

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Too many children playing an M rated game it seems...remember everyone, we are talking about PIXELS.

No we're not talking about pixels. We're talking about ideals, ideologies, morality concepts and individual motivations (specifically for wanting to kill digital children).

ALL of these things are more important than pixels and many of us imbue our characters and our gameplay with our own emotions and personalities. I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

Lynnessa

Yes, add them

Malpherian wrote: »

I don't care either way honestly, but I am not about to encourage a mentally unstable individual by encouraging their belief that killing digital pixels is in any way even remotely related to the same act in reality.

Thinking about doing something (doing it vicariously or fantasizing about it, for example) is definitely related to actually doing it. This is why the current generation is desensitized to just about everything.

Psychobunni

No, don't add them

Gidorick wrote: »

ALL of these things are more important than pixels and many of us imbue our characters and our gameplay with our own emotions and personalities. I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

^^That part. I'm a Mom, I see children as innocent, savable, mold-able human beings into something great (okay maybe not some teenagers). I see them as hope, our chance to be better than we are, ...the best part of us as humans. Okay that baby screaming is getting on my nerves, but he/she will have that amazement of watching leaves float in the wind for the first time...or the beauty found in a slug. So yes, that translates into my characters on a game. In short, no little kids are looking at the d*** flowers on my watch.

Gidorick

Yes, add them

Lynnessa wrote: »

Malpherian wrote: »

I don't care either way honestly, but I am not about to encourage a mentally unstable individual by encouraging their belief that killing digital pixels is in any way even remotely related to the same act in reality.

Thinking about doing something (doing it vicariously or fantasizing about it, for example) is definitely related to actually doing it. This is why the current generation is desensitized to just about everything.

You know... it's not even the act of digital infanticide that bothers me, it's the desire to commit digital infanticide that bothers me.

As I said before, if there were a quest that had us kill a child to complete the quest or to choose which child would die.. that would be one thing but to provide tools for people to get their jollies by murdering digital children.. that would just seem wrong. Not because I think it would lead to a person doing so in real life but because we cross over to the point of an act becoming a perversion.

Zershar_Vemod

Yes, add them

seanvwolf wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

A fantasy realm (Elder Scrolls) which contains magic, lizard / cat people, elves, dragons, hordes of undead, etc. should never be taken seriously...

A fantasy realm which until Skyrim never featured children. Please just forget everything you know about the TES franchise just because it was in the last (imo smallest) game in the franchise. And we'll all just listen with rapture as you try to feel good about why you think having the ability for simulated infanticide is so acceptable, desired or necessary. Please, do go on.

You have my pity. It is unfortunate that you can't differentiate pixels from flesh and blood.

Psychobunni wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Sad to see so many delusional people with the inability to separate reality from fantasy.

These are PIXELS people...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH1XaWHctyk

I guess a lot of people also forgot this is an M rated game and that children die every single day. A fantasy realm (Elder Scrolls) which contains magic, lizard / cat people, elves, dragons, hordes of undead, etc. should never be taken seriously...

I bet a lot of the loons here think that video games cause violent behavior too, but ignore that bad parenting and actual mental illnesses are the real issues people should be focusing on.

I could honestly care less if we have legions of immortal children in this game. The only reason Skyrim didn't release killable children was because of backlash from idiots who thought video games were real apparently; I mean, there is still full voiced dialog in Skyrim for the deaths of children in it.

I wonder how many millions of npcs we've all killed since launch...I don't see people complaining about that, or why isn't this game getting heavy protest for killing animals?

Too many children playing an M rated game it seems...remember everyone, we are talking about PIXELS.

But you are only thinking inside your little box. You are not mentally ill, therefore you can separate the difference, so therefore in your mind its a non-issue.

However, from a legal standpoint ZOS has to consider that there may be a mentally ill player, and if they did something insane and it could be blamed on them in any way, then they might face a lawsuit, (probably win) but spend millions doing so in legal cost.

So over all of the things that they could implement into the game, why would they chose one that has just as much potential to harm them as it does anything else. It couldn't even be a selling point from a PR point of view.

You have to think past your POV to everything they have to look at when deciding to implement.

(and no, I don't think killing pixels makes us go kill people, I do however believe that entertainment killing does make us more numb to real life killing, and thus a *part* in why we can't get a grip on things we should not be just accepting as another news story)

I understand where you are coming from (Marketing major and so forth), but then we have incidents like the latest Batman movie with the individual shooting up a theatre some years ago.

I still see DC comics doing well and pretty much getting off scot free after said incident. I mean, hell, why didn't the previous Batman movies, tv shows, etc. cause incidents? Well that was because of specific individuals, not the product. Same could be said about Marvel and others who feature heavy amounts of violence or multiple controversies.

Gidorick wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

Too many children playing an M rated game it seems...remember everyone, we are talking about PIXELS.

No we're not talking about pixels. We're talking about ideals, ideologies, morality concepts and individual motivations (specifically for wanting to kill digital children).

ALL of these things are more important than pixels and many of us imbue our characters and our gameplay with our own emotions and personalities. I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

You see, this is where many still don't see the confusion. It isn't real.

I have zero interest in killing pixel children (except Braith...), and as I have said, I would be ok with immortal children who just run away and scream and get to safety.

This isn't targeted toward you, but honestly, people need to get a grip on the difference between reality and fantasy.

ShadowHvo

Yes, add them

Zorrashi wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

... Tamriel is a sick, twisted and horrible world when you dig deep enough.

Total number of children in Tamriel ever seen in the history of TES, 49.
Number of killable children in Tamriel, 0.
Really sick and horrible. Children can't seem to die until they are old enough. So twisted.

We have gods dedicated to murder, cannibalism and defilement, slavery too. Several races partake widely in the different elements as well. If you ask me, it is absolutely hypocritical to be completely fine with slavery, defilement and murder of all sorts, but will go beserk if they see a child getting slapped across the face in a video game.

Have you forgotten about the aedra? The nine divines can easily represent the 'good' qualities like chastity, leadership and defending of the weak. Save for the dunmer and argonians, almost every other culture tends to sway more toward aedra or their respective ancestors. Even the dunmer under the tribunal are warned against the study of the daedra (and in some cases, downright illegal).
While a few are still advocating for slavery (mainly RP and partially in game), the very fact that argonian slavery was abolished is enough proof that there is at least some semblance of more modern ideas regarding freedom (however limited it may be) in this setting.

Implying that the game is only about murder, killing and thievery is just highly misleading given the game's actual depth in terms of morals. You don't just 'murder'. The game makes it clear that you kill the enemies of your state. In other words, it makes it so that you actually perform a good service to your faction. Those bandits you killed? It doesn't matter that you were only in it for their screaming. You ridded your province of pesky caravan raiders and ruffians that were wanted under the law. The daedra you slaughtered? The game does not think that you did it for the thrill, but for the justice within you that made you purge 'evil' influence from the mortal realm.
Of the few quests that seem more grim on their sequence, the game has made them so rare in their appearance that they actually seem like a rarity on occasion.

Your reasons are yours and your alone. No one denies that, but the game gives a pretty clear premise about the mode of thinking in the world.

Instead of it being hypocritical, it would be contradictory to the game if children were easily killable without substantial consequence precisely because of the setting presented. Of societies. Of regimes. Of governments. Though they may be conflicting, the game hardly goes into anywhere close to the idea of that you seem to be thinking of.

Now if the children were outside of the safely guarded cities on the other hand....then yeah. Some 'unfortunate' things can easily occur...

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Whenever you like it or not, Tamriel is a twisted place. We have many hidden references to disgusting elements here in life which hopefully all in this forum find to be a disgrace in real life. BUT we're playing a fantasy epic, and can therefore explore said disgusting elements IF we wish to. It is not forced upon us, yet it is a choice the player has.

Yes, Tamriel does have some dark undertones that seep through if you know where to look. But they are hidden or otherwise 'diluted' in most instances, hence why their nature is so sublime in presentation and actually makes them a more than decent aspect of the game. I respect that nuance.

Despite the fact that this is game full of pixilated images, it still stands that the contents are subject to the contemplation of those in reality.
Does the killing of children matter? To you, it seems like it means little. But to others, it can mean a lot. So saying that killable should be included in the game "because it is fantasy game" is not really applicable to a certain extent. For there does exist one, pivotal aspect of reality that makes it way into the game even if only slightly. Players.
Players who are very clearly of reality and are highly influenced by reality. Players who interact with this living fantasy world while looking through their particular and personalized lens that is may not easily freed from the self-imposed stain-glass of society.

You seem to miss what I've said, Zorrashi. I have not claimed there are no good gods like the aedra you mention yourself. In fact, I specificly wrote that Tamriel is a twisted place IF you dig deep

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Tamriel is a sick, twisted and horrible world when you dig deep enough.

Right there I imply that it might look "Normal and ordinary" at first, but when you start to dig, you realize how horrible and twisted it can be, just like our own.

Don't forget that the Dunmer only released their Argonian slaves because of the Ebonheart Pact, as soon as the pact is done with, the Dunmer goes right back and enslaves them again. The Dunmer are still allowed to hold slaves of all races besides those with the Pact, in our time period. Just because the Dunmer releases their Argonian slaves while being a part of the Pact does not show that Tamriel holds a "semblance of more modern ideas regarding freedom" as you so firmly put it.

Honestly though, I think you've read my post with a wrong mindset. I have never asked, nor would I ever ask for killable NPC's without consequences. I dearly wish we would have faction reputations just like in old WoW did theirs. But that is not the case for TESO. Of course there shall, and needs to be consequences for killing children, it is a crime after all. Kill anything with a guard nearby? I surely hope that guard will be striking/capturing that foul murderer. Though I do not imply that Tamriel is all about criminal natures. It is a big part of it yes, but far from everything.

It's also quite ironic that you say you're doing it for the good of their faction, considering you're a damned traitor who goes over to assist all three factions (Which many roleplayers like myself, still utterly despises as it destorys all sense of faction pride, yet the content is forced down our throats if we wish to be competitive with other players in PvE and PvP alike. Hell, even Craglorn as a zone is Covernant territorium.) Though, I have never implied that is all the game is about. I just say that I find it disgusting that many are okay with defilement, slavery and murder in a video game, yet believe child murder to be wrong in a video game. Murder is murder, regardless of age, gender or race. The same goes for slavery and defilement.

It is still a fantasy game, and should therefore be handled as such. Of course the media will go beserk on ZOS if they put in killable children. Gaming is the modern times scapegoat. But I for one, would salute them for making a proper, true and realistic experience in an online world with other fellow players to enjoy it.

Does that mean I want to go on a murder spree only targeting kids? No. That means I want to be able to threaten, or slap that foolish kid across the face for asking me after a game of tag for the 100+ time, after I've repeatly said no.

That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker for me the slightest either. I just want the option there, as the kid possibly CAN ruin an immersed experience for roleplayers, if they're immortal.

seanvwolf

No, don't add them

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

A fantasy realm which until Skyrim never featured children. Please just forget everything you know about the TES franchise just because it was in the last (imo smallest) game in the franchise. And we'll all just listen with rapture as you try to feel good about why you think having the ability for simulated infanticide is so acceptable, desired or necessary. Please, do go on.

You have my pity. It is unfortunate that you can't differentiate pixels from flesh and blood.

Usually I'm the one that says the phrase "You have my pity." usually when I feel I've exhausted my argument and can add no more other than to recap what I'd previously outlined.

Something for you to chew on, eh?

One of the primary treatments for PTSD is digitally-rendered immersive simulation therapies. Why? Because it's effective at treating phobias and anxieties by conditioning the patient to certain activities which normally cause them distress or discomfort. This is what psychologists mean by clinical desensitization. This is the very best example I can provide to you that simulated media can and does alter the way we think and behave, whether intentionally or not.

Zorrashi

Yes, add them

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

... Tamriel is a sick, twisted and horrible world when you dig deep enough.

Total number of children in Tamriel ever seen in the history of TES, 49.
Number of killable children in Tamriel, 0.
Really sick and horrible. Children can't seem to die until they are old enough. So twisted.

We have gods dedicated to murder, cannibalism and defilement, slavery too. Several races partake widely in the different elements as well. If you ask me, it is absolutely hypocritical to be completely fine with slavery, defilement and murder of all sorts, but will go beserk if they see a child getting slapped across the face in a video game.

Have you forgotten about the aedra? The nine divines can easily represent the 'good' qualities like chastity, leadership and defending of the weak. Save for the dunmer and argonians, almost every other culture tends to sway more toward aedra or their respective ancestors. Even the dunmer under the tribunal are warned against the study of the daedra (and in some cases, downright illegal).
While a few are still advocating for slavery (mainly RP and partially in game), the very fact that argonian slavery was abolished is enough proof that there is at least some semblance of more modern ideas regarding freedom (however limited it may be) in this setting.

Implying that the game is only about murder, killing and thievery is just highly misleading given the game's actual depth in terms of morals. You don't just 'murder'. The game makes it clear that you kill the enemies of your state. In other words, it makes it so that you actually perform a good service to your faction. Those bandits you killed? It doesn't matter that you were only in it for their screaming. You ridded your province of pesky caravan raiders and ruffians that were wanted under the law. The daedra you slaughtered? The game does not think that you did it for the thrill, but for the justice within you that made you purge 'evil' influence from the mortal realm.
Of the few quests that seem more grim on their sequence, the game has made them so rare in their appearance that they actually seem like a rarity on occasion.

Your reasons are yours and your alone. No one denies that, but the game gives a pretty clear premise about the mode of thinking in the world.

Instead of it being hypocritical, it would be contradictory to the game if children were easily killable without substantial consequence precisely because of the setting presented. Of societies. Of regimes. Of governments. Though they may be conflicting, the game hardly goes into anywhere close to the idea of that you seem to be thinking of.

Now if the children were outside of the safely guarded cities on the other hand....then yeah. Some 'unfortunate' things can easily occur...

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Whenever you like it or not, Tamriel is a twisted place. We have many hidden references to disgusting elements here in life which hopefully all in this forum find to be a disgrace in real life. BUT we're playing a fantasy epic, and can therefore explore said disgusting elements IF we wish to. It is not forced upon us, yet it is a choice the player has.

Yes, Tamriel does have some dark undertones that seep through if you know where to look. But they are hidden or otherwise 'diluted' in most instances, hence why their nature is so sublime in presentation and actually makes them a more than decent aspect of the game. I respect that nuance.

Despite the fact that this is game full of pixilated images, it still stands that the contents are subject to the contemplation of those in reality.
Does the killing of children matter? To you, it seems like it means little. But to others, it can mean a lot. So saying that killable should be included in the game "because it is fantasy game" is not really applicable to a certain extent. For there does exist one, pivotal aspect of reality that makes it way into the game even if only slightly. Players.
Players who are very clearly of reality and are highly influenced by reality. Players who interact with this living fantasy world while looking through their particular and personalized lens that is may not easily freed from the self-imposed stain-glass of society.

You seem to miss what I've said, Zorrashi. I have not claimed there are no good gods like the aedra you mention yourself. In fact, I specificly wrote that Tamriel is a twisted place IF you dig deep

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Tamriel is a sick, twisted and horrible world when you dig deep enough.

Right there I imply that it might look "Normal and ordinary" at first, but when you start to dig, you realize how horrible and twisted it can be, just like our own.

Don't forget that the Dunmer only released their Argonian slaves because of the Ebonheart Pact, as soon as the pact is done with, the Dunmer goes right back and enslaves them again. The Dunmer are still allowed to hold slaves of all races besides those with the Pact, in our time period. Just because the Dunmer releases their Argonian slaves while being a part of the Pact does not show that Tamriel holds a "semblance of more modern ideas regarding freedom" as you so firmly put it.

Honestly though, I think you've read my post with a wrong mindset. I have never asked, nor would I ever ask for killable NPC's without consequences. I dearly wish we would have faction reputations just like in old WoW did theirs. But that is not the case for TESO. Of course there shall, and needs to be consequences for killing children, it is a crime after all. Kill anything with a guard nearby? I surely hope that guard will be striking/capturing that foul murderer. Though I do not imply that Tamriel is all about criminal natures. It is a big part of it yes, but far from everything.

It's also quite ironic that you say you're doing it for the good of their faction, considering you're a damned traitor who goes over to assist all three factions (Which many roleplayers like myself, still utterly despises as it destorys all sense of faction pride, yet the content is forced down our throats if we wish to be competitive with other players in PvE and PvP alike. Hell, even Craglorn as a zone is Covernant territorium.) Though, I have never implied that is all the game is about. I just say that I find it disgusting that many are okay with defilement, slavery and murder in a video game, yet believe child murder to be wrong in a video game. Murder is murder, regardless of age, gender or race. The same goes for slavery and defilement.

It is still a fantasy game, and should therefore be handled as such. Of course the media will go beserk on ZOS if they put in killable children. Gaming is the modern times scapegoat. But I for one, would salute them for making a proper, true and realistic experience in an online world with other fellow players to enjoy it.

Does that mean I want to go on a murder spree only targeting kids? No. That means I want to be able to threaten, or slap that foolish kid across the face for asking me after a game of tag for the 100+ time, after I've repeatly said no.

That doesn't mean it's a deal breaker for me the slightest either. I just want the option there, as the kid possibly CAN ruin an immersed experience for roleplayers, if they're immortal.

Ah I apologize then. I admit, I have gotten a bit emotional at reading certain posts that occasionally pop up on this thread. In particular the ones that seem to imply that some people want to play the game just to go on a child killing spree "because it's rated M".

But yes, if the option to kill a child with consequences was included in such a way that they are not just the human-NPC equivalent of monkeys or deer, then that would be a welcome addition to the game (but a bit 'dangerous' in terms of publicity and criticism...might get the game banned in certain countries.).
Preferably the instances where such things are even possible would be somewhat restrictive (i.e quests or the kid asks to play tag one too many in your case...) in order to discourage such activities. With consequences/bounty to boot.

ShadowHvo

Yes, add them

No worries man, I can understand it can be frustrating, and we seem to agree on that. But honestly though, I too think it's too much of a risk for ZOS to take, as you said too, it might get banned from certain countries, and that would be a shame to have happen due to a few NPC children. While I would personally like it to be there, hence my vote, I can certainly see why ZOS wouldn't put them in.

Harleyquincey

Yes, add them

I'd like them to be added and regarding the everlasting debate on "killable or not" - let's put it this way:

I like realism. I like gritty settings (such as Shadowrun, Call of Cthulu, Vampire: The Masquerade, Cyberpunk e.g.) and I do stick to my character concepts. While my current main character (Vr14 DK Tank) would certainly not only not hurt children but also go to great lenghts in order to protect them, others would certainly not. I have already played on RP servers where players did roleplay children or youths and frankly, the world there wasn't a happy place either. I'll just leave you with the keeywords Drow and sacrifice.

Would I ever cause harm to any children outside of a game? Heck no. That's odd and really sick stuff. But I do take character concepts seriously and if I would decide to play someone without morals and who only aims for the "larger goal", that one could possibly decide not to care who or how many die for his goals.

I'm roleplaying such a character elsewhere currently and she would not like them dying but she also wouldn't mourn it or avoid it if it "has to be done" for the "greater good". Yes. That does make her cynical, cold-hearted and a fair bit a maniac. But hey. She's a filthy rich politician type obsessed with increasing her influence so "someone could finally steer things in the right direction again."

That's my two cents on this and I know I'm not following a popular vein with it. Just whoever really goes from this to assuming I'm sick in real-life would be someone I'd encourage to seek help in differentiating between fiction and reality.

However with all this said - I also strongly advise against making them killable. Why? The reasons for this are all depicted in this very thread alone. Now imagine what would happen if it'd spread to elsewhere (no pun intended..or.. was it? )- we'd be sitting on an explosive barrel filled with explosives in a coating of explosive liquids!

AlexDougherty

Yes, add them

seanvwolf wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

But Richard wasn't trained from childhood in a Torture chamber, he had a normal childhood. Kahlan had a childhood that could be viewed in that light, but that wasn't gone into detail (thank god).

I didn't say Richard was trained from childhood in a torture chamber... I said the trainers were raised from childhood in a torture chamber, which is not incorrect.

Ah, sorry my misunderstanding.

roltus

The opposing views aren't going to agree. One that the idea of killing children in a game is distasteful or worse, the other that it has no bearing on anything outside of the game.

I'm in the latter category. I expect there's very little I do in game that I'd do in reality, from mining ore to killing animals. I can't say I'd desperately want to run around killing children in game if I could but I think the idea of them being some kind of immortal species is stupid. I probably would have killed a few of the annoying ones in Skyrim to stop them being annoying. My neighbours have annoying children too, but I haven't yet cast fireballs on them.

Zershar_Vemod

Yes, add them

seanvwolf wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

A fantasy realm which until Skyrim never featured children. Please just forget everything you know about the TES franchise just because it was in the last (imo smallest) game in the franchise. And we'll all just listen with rapture as you try to feel good about why you think having the ability for simulated infanticide is so acceptable, desired or necessary. Please, do go on.

You have my pity. It is unfortunate that you can't differentiate pixels from flesh and blood.

Usually I'm the one that says the phrase "You have my pity." usually when I feel I've exhausted my argument and can add no more other than to recap what I'd previously outlined.

Something for you to chew on, eh?

One of the primary treatments for PTSD is digitally-rendered immersive simulation therapies. Why? Because it's effective at treating phobias and anxieties by conditioning the patient to certain activities which normally cause them distress or discomfort. This is what psychologists mean by clinical desensitization. This is the very best example I can provide to you that simulated media can and does alter the way we think and behave, whether intentionally or not.

I simply grow bored of talking to a wall.

You can't differentiate a fantasy game from reality, that is a problem you need to seek treatment for.

Nirnroot

Yes, add them

Yes, add them

Psychobunni

No, don't add them

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

seanvwolf wrote: »

A fantasy realm which until Skyrim never featured children. Please just forget everything you know about the TES franchise just because it was in the last (imo smallest) game in the franchise. And we'll all just listen with rapture as you try to feel good about why you think having the ability for simulated infanticide is so acceptable, desired or necessary. Please, do go on.

You have my pity. It is unfortunate that you can't differentiate pixels from flesh and blood.

Usually I'm the one that says the phrase "You have my pity." usually when I feel I've exhausted my argument and can add no more other than to recap what I'd previously outlined.

Something for you to chew on, eh?

One of the primary treatments for PTSD is digitally-rendered immersive simulation therapies. Why? Because it's effective at treating phobias and anxieties by conditioning the patient to certain activities which normally cause them distress or discomfort. This is what psychologists mean by clinical desensitization. This is the very best example I can provide to you that simulated media can and does alter the way we think and behave, whether intentionally or not.

I simply grow bored of talking to a wall.

You can't differentiate a fantasy game from reality, that is a problem you need to seek treatment for.

You know, I had no idea of what he said myself. googling "PTSD is digitally-rendered immersive simulation therapies" comes of with tons of information confirming exactly what he said.....so does that mean he is talking to a wall that refuses to listen to evidence outside his own head?

Mormo

No, don't add them

Tabbycat wrote: »

Add children yes. Make them invincible.

Amen.

Pheefs

No, don't add them

I hate-HATE the fake-O voices they give children in games, if its not the Gormagon from Fable2, I'll pass thanks!

Pheefs

No, don't add them

Srugzal wrote: »

... except for the quest lines that depend on them, of course (Riften Orphanage, anyone?) And in Skyrim, children are not the only NPCs who can be jerks.

okay, that's true... that quest line was fun & very funny

Moonshadow66

No, don't add them

I posted here 2 days ago already, but I still cannot forget this topic, especially not the "reasons" why the OP would like to see children in the game.

No matter if it's "just a game" or not, especially as a mother (which I am), I definitely do NOT want to see any children get killed by insane people/players with sick minds.
Obviously, those players/users/whatever who would go killing them don't have any children yet. If they had, they wouldn't even remotely consider doing that. Even the ones without kids, everyone with a sane state of mind they would never do this.

I could continue writing on this topic for hours, but I'll stop it here for now.

One last thing: if children would be added to the game someday and would be killable - the next lost sub would be me.

Zershar_Vemod

Yes, add them

Raygee wrote: »

I posted here 2 days ago already, but I still cannot forget this topic, especially not the "reasons" why the OP would like to see children in the game.

No matter if it's "just a game" or not, especially as a mother (which I am), I definitely do NOT want to see any children get killed by insane people/players with sick minds.

Obviously, those players/users/whatever who would go killing them don't have any children yet. If they had, they wouldn't even remotely consider doing that. Even the ones without kids, everyone with a sane state of mind they would never do this.

I could continue writing on this topic for hours, but I'll stop it here for now.

One last thing: if children would be added to the game someday and would be killable - the next lost sub would be me.

The bias is strong in this one.

You know what, lets drop all the combat in every game that isn't E10+ and replace it with rainbows that make people fall down onto flowerbeds when they are overwhelmed with cuteness.

How many adult NPCs have you killed in this M RATED game alone? We're all genocidal murderers who will commit horrid crimes in real life because we play a video game by your tinfoil hat standards.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

k9mouse

Yes, add them

I want to see Khajiit Cubs and Argonian Hatching! Skyrim had way way to many human (and not other races) brats ..err.. sweet little children in the game.

Zershar_Vemod

Yes, add them

k9mouse wrote: »

I want to see Khajiit Cubs and Argonian Hatching! Skyrim had way way to many human (and not other races) brats ..err.. sweet little children in the game.

Although there are mods for non-human children for Skyrim, I too would have liked to see more than just humans as default.

When you think about it, the Khajiit that were featured in Skyrim where mainly nomadic, going from town to town in a very unsafe landscape. Argonian children being around might have made more sense due to Argonians being pretty much settled down somewhere within Skyrim.

Moonshadow66

No, don't add them

seanvwolf wrote: »

(...)
One of the primary treatments for PTSD is digitally-rendered immersive simulation therapies. Why? Because it's effective at treating phobias and anxieties by conditioning the patient to certain activities which normally cause them distress or discomfort. This is what psychologists mean by clinical desensitization. This is the very best example I can provide to you that simulated media can and does alter the way we think and behave, whether intentionally or not.

This.
Thanks for posting it!

Dustile

No, don't add them

Inversus wrote: »

I'd love to be able to include children NPCs in my rampages

Have you talked your Psychiatrist about this?

Samadhi

No, don't add them

It is disturbing to see some of the sentiment in this thread; people claiming that other individuals would be unable to distinguish a game from reality simply because they themselves apparently have such trouble.

This indicates to me that it is best to keep children out of the game completely. Child NPCs in no way have to be killable in order for people to create uncomfortable situations in an MMO setting. It would be best to avoid the issue in its entirety by refraining from implementing the NPCs to begin with.

Moonshadow66

No, don't add them

Psychobunni wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ALL of these things are more important than pixels and many of us imbue our characters and our gameplay with our own emotions and personalities. I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

^^That part. I'm a Mom, I see children as innocent, savable, mold-able human beings into something great (okay maybe not some teenagers). I see them as hope, our chance to be better than we are, ...the best part of us as humans. Okay that baby screaming is getting on my nerves, but he/she will have that amazement of watching leaves float in the wind for the first time...or the beauty found in a slug. So yes, that translates into my characters on a game. In short, no little kids are looking at the d*** flowers on my watch.

I'm sorry I saw your comment too late, that's basically what I said, too (but later).
Some people here don't seem to understand this, or don't want to, or just can't.