Ze blobbings vill continue...

Columba

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

Lowbei

the only person crying is you

try to post something without involving my name lol #obsession

thanks for the ap, less rage plz

ps, also i dont think you really understood what i said, despite it only being one sentence and in english (haha). 4v4v4 arenas are coming to eso, no reason to go anywhere else

Columba

Ok have fun with arenas. Less of you raging against the machine in zone

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

hamon

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

Xsorus

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

Its my fault, I wanted to go with assgrabbing but that would of been censored out.

Lowbei

hamon wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

columba is beyond help, dont waste your time

Columba

hamon wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

did you learn zerg balling vs zerging in gaming school? lol.

I understand the implications of aoe caps. I think it is one solution to improve the game, not the only solution. there are others. I've seen the problems with no aoe caps too, but the daoc fan bois (I loved daoc and played for 6 years) refuse to see any downsides of no aoe caps. lolhammer had no aoe caps, and it was one of many factors that effed up that game. zenimax has reason to pause on eliminating all aoe caps, not the least of which is to think through the full impact of such an enormous change to the game dynamics.

Xsorus

Columba wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

did you learn zerg balling vs zerging in gaming school? lol.

I understand the implications of aoe caps. I think it is one solution to improve the game, not the only solution. there are others. I've seen the problems with no aoe caps too, but the daoc fan bois (I loved daoc and played for 6 years) refuse to see any downsides of no aoe caps. lolhammer had no aoe caps, and it was one of many factors that effed up that game. zenimax has reason to pause on eliminating all aoe caps, not the least of which is to think through the full impact of such an enormous change to the game dynamics.

Oh..So you want to bring up no AOE caps in Warhammer Online.

i believe i've had this discussion before with players on this forum.

AOE's in Warhammer Online weren't a problem, Bright Wizards Combustion Mechanic was. How do I know this? Because I played that game during beta and for a few years after final..I never once saw someone say "You know what really sucks..All those Shadow Warriors and Engineer's AOEing us down" despite the fact both classes had AOE, hell I had some fairly decent AOE's on my SW (cone based). What i did not have was a mechanic that increased my crit chance by 35% and my crit damage by 100%.

So when they finally ended up nerfing "AOE's" in that game the only thing they managed to do was make SW's/Engineer's worse. Bright Wizards still reigned supreme because of that mechanic and they were still able to kill massive amounts of people because of that mechanic.

If you really want an idea how powerful that mechanic was.

http://i.imgur.com/FG6Sbmx.jpg

That was from beta, Look at my Health, and look at that damage, and realize, That was 1 spell that was cast...Fireball Barrage, Those other two abilities were procs.

I have countless screen shots from beta of this. It was so bad in beta, That instead of nerfing that mechanic, they had to increase everyone's HP in the game so Bright Wizards wouldn't one shot them. That in effect made every other class worse in terms of damage. Because now they required more damage to kill people.

Columba

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

did you learn zerg balling vs zerging in gaming school? lol.

I understand the implications of aoe caps. I think it is one solution to improve the game, not the only solution. there are others. I've seen the problems with no aoe caps too, but the daoc fan bois (I loved daoc and played for 6 years) refuse to see any downsides of no aoe caps. lolhammer had no aoe caps, and it was one of many factors that effed up that game. zenimax has reason to pause on eliminating all aoe caps, not the least of which is to think through the full impact of such an enormous change to the game dynamics.

Oh..So you want to bring up no AOE caps in Warhammer Online.

i believe i've had this discussion before with players on this forum.

AOE's in Warhammer Online weren't a problem, Bright Wizards Combustion Mechanic was. How do I know this? Because I played that game during beta and for a few years after final..I never once saw someone say "You know what really sucks..All those Shadow Warriors and Engineer's AOEing us down" despite the fact both classes had AOE, hell I had some fairly decent AOE's on my SW (cone based). What i did not have was a mechanic that increased my crit chance by 35% and my crit damage by 100%.

So when they finally ended up nerfing "AOE's" in that game the only thing they managed to do was make SW's/Engineer's worse. Bright Wizards still reigned supreme because of that mechanic and they were still able to kill massive amounts of people because of that mechanic.

If you really want an idea how powerful that mechanic was.

http://i.imgur.com/FG6Sbmx.jpg

That was from beta, Look at my Health, and look at that damage, and realize, That was 1 spell that was cast...Fireball Barrage, Those other two abilities were procs.

I have countless screen shots from beta of this. It was so bad in beta, That instead of nerfing that mechanic, they had to increase everyone's HP in the game so Bright Wizards wouldn't one shot them. That in effect made every other class worse in terms of damage. Because now they required more damage to kill people.

aoe's locking down entire zergs in small quarters were one part of the problem. Your example is another. I don't disagree that low aoe caps are a problem, however, removing them all at once is reckless. Increase the cap slowly test, and document impact. full removal isn't the only answer, nor is it a prudent move at this stage of the game. it would require tons of other changes to balance the game.

Xsorus

Columba wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

then go play those when they become available and stop trying to convert people from zerging.....stop whining about zergs. crying all day here and in zone, lol. here's a tissue. Lol, you are like the Fundamentalists who try to cure people from being gay!

What the hell are you going on about?
Do you even read?

This has NOTHING to do with preventing zerging.

Zerging is a perfectly valid and interesting tactic. It will happen with or without caps.
What we're talking about here is an arbitrary mechanic that starts being an issue at 6+1 players.
So we're far from "zerg" numbers.

The only relation it has with zergs is that this cap removes all natural drawbacks that usually scale with group size and replaces it with an advantage that scales with group size. So in addition to its many other flaws, this concept also upset the natural balance of force multipliers.

To the person who invented the term "zerg balling", gg, you made hasty people confused.

no point trying to make him understand the problem, if he doesnt even know the diffrence between a zerg and a zerg ball or blob. You stand no chance making him understand the mechanics of AOE caps.

did you learn zerg balling vs zerging in gaming school? lol.

I understand the implications of aoe caps. I think it is one solution to improve the game, not the only solution. there are others. I've seen the problems with no aoe caps too, but the daoc fan bois (I loved daoc and played for 6 years) refuse to see any downsides of no aoe caps. lolhammer had no aoe caps, and it was one of many factors that effed up that game. zenimax has reason to pause on eliminating all aoe caps, not the least of which is to think through the full impact of such an enormous change to the game dynamics.

Oh..So you want to bring up no AOE caps in Warhammer Online.

i believe i've had this discussion before with players on this forum.

AOE's in Warhammer Online weren't a problem, Bright Wizards Combustion Mechanic was. How do I know this? Because I played that game during beta and for a few years after final..I never once saw someone say "You know what really sucks..All those Shadow Warriors and Engineer's AOEing us down" despite the fact both classes had AOE, hell I had some fairly decent AOE's on my SW (cone based). What i did not have was a mechanic that increased my crit chance by 35% and my crit damage by 100%.

So when they finally ended up nerfing "AOE's" in that game the only thing they managed to do was make SW's/Engineer's worse. Bright Wizards still reigned supreme because of that mechanic and they were still able to kill massive amounts of people because of that mechanic.

If you really want an idea how powerful that mechanic was.

http://i.imgur.com/FG6Sbmx.jpg

That was from beta, Look at my Health, and look at that damage, and realize, That was 1 spell that was cast...Fireball Barrage, Those other two abilities were procs.

I have countless screen shots from beta of this. It was so bad in beta, That instead of nerfing that mechanic, they had to increase everyone's HP in the game so Bright Wizards wouldn't one shot them. That in effect made every other class worse in terms of damage. Because now they required more damage to kill people.

aoe's locking down entire zergs in small quarters were one part of the problem. Your example is another. I don't disagree that low aoe caps are a problem, however, removing them all at once is reckless. Increase the cap slowly test, and document impact. full removal isn't the only answer, nor is it a prudent move at this stage of the game. it would require tons of other changes to balance the game.

Your complaint about AOE's locking down entire zergs in small quarters wasn't a problem with AOE's.

That would be called Collision Detection.

You get a ton of beefer's to form a beef bus wall on the stairs up (since there was only 1 way into a keep and up the stairs at the start of the game) and you ran into a wall you could not pass before ya died. Throw in horrendous lag in some of the encounters and that was a problem.

The problem you're specifically talking about was eventually fixed not being removing Collision detection, or even nerfing AOE's but by adding more ways up into a keep that required more people to cover it.

Columba

Collision detection was a problem too. However aoe cc's with no caps were problematic in close quarters too, esp oil pouring down. Daoc not quite as bad because they had diminishing returns.

Again, why recklessly make such a huge change in a game that isn't horrible? Mythic made massive changes too, often ruining any semblance of balance with each massive pendulum swing. The situation here merits small changes, not reckless overhauls.

Xsorus

Columba wrote: »

Collision detection was a problem too. However aoe cc's with no caps were problematic in close quarters too, esp oil pouring down. Daoc not quite as bad because they had diminishing returns.

Again, why recklessly make such a huge change in a game that isn't horrible? Mythic made massive changes too, often ruining any semblance of balance with each massive pendulum swing. The situation here merits small changes, not reckless overhauls.

AOE CC wasn't to bad in Warhammer Online, there was no long duration aoe mezzes at the start, the only thing that was remotely nasty was Knight of the Blazing Sun Cone 3 second Knockdown. That was eventually changed to a 12 second cone mez though.

Oil Pouring in Warhammer was perfectly fine, as you only had generally 1 oil spot. Which was fine.

Samadhi

I miss the days before ZOS brought the AoE cap to light.

I look forward to when the AoE cap is removed and this whole blobbing issue is fixed.

synnerman

And still apart from 1 post almost 2 weeks ago nothing from ZoS on this rubbish...

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Columba wrote: »

Collision detection was a problem too. However aoe cc's with no caps were problematic in close quarters too, esp oil pouring down. Daoc not quite as bad because they had diminishing returns.

To you collision damage is a problem?
How can it be in a pvp game? If someone blocks your path, kill it, or find another way. if it is a friendly, communicate with him or wait for someone else to kill him/ force him to move.
Even CS has colision detection and it adds to the game.

An elegant solution to the few issues is to have dodge rolling forward pass collisions at a stamina cost.
It would be an indirect buff to medium armor too and give a role to those that wear it with the athletics passive.
Maybe even disable colision detection in cities to prevent trolling.

There is enough instancing/phasing in ESO to not be an issue in pve but a way to make it more interesting and involved.
It already was an improvement with monster colisions.

Columba wrote: »

Again, why recklessly make such a huge change in a game that isn't horrible? Mythic made massive changes too, often ruining any semblance of balance with each massive pendulum swing. The situation here merits small changes, not reckless overhauls.

Because it isn't reckless.
We saw the game virtually without caps, and it was objectively a better game.(more depth and breadth)

Remember ,at launch, no one knew there were caps, Since there was no knowledge of the incentive to stack, people spread out, and aoe rarely hit more than 6 targets.
It is still noticeable today, when you see non organized forces, they spread out and a more varied gameplay occurs.

Remove the target caps and the game would just be "as normal" but without the blobbing balls and no immersion breaking random luck factors in large scale battles.

And you mentioned increasing the target cap, but that would either make it worst or make it meaningless:
- A slightly higher cap means an higher barrier of entry to the strongest tactic in the game, with all the issues still present. For instance, a cap of 20, as groups are easily at 24, still means a full group would gain 16.5% passive dodge chances by stacking. The incentive is there, but you have to be more than "cap +1" to exploit it.
- If it is set at 100, then it would never kick in, and the calculation at each aoe to check which target to hit with respecting the cap would be a useless computational overhead.

There are no drawbacks to removing the general arbitrary target cap.

Abilities can be balanced individually when they stand out, but even unbalanced abilities wouldn't wreck the game like blobbing does.

Lava_Croft

Hey look, another thread made the one of the same like 5 people who constantly whine about the AoE cap.

Repeating the same argument over and over doesn't make it any more or less valid.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Hey look, another thread made the one of the same like 5 people who constantly whine about the AoE cap.

Repeating the same argument over and over doesn't make it any more or less valid.

True, but at least it informs people about the issue, and why it is an issue, rather than letting it get burried.
There still are some people new to the forums or to the game that have misconceptions about some of the game mechanics (mainly due to lack of ingame info) and that could get pushed away by seeing the effects in game.
It's not very intuitive that there are target caps, and it looks more like a bug/glitch when your abilities don't hit at random.

Knowing that there is a reason for what they are seeing ,and a solution to it helps to keep them retained.

I'm not as optimistic as others, so I don't think the issue is yet on the todo list, but at least they know about it.
Especially since that one little comment about how the devs are at least discussing it internally.

Lowbei

zergers who blob need ae caps, as it has given them a momentary feeling of success despite a lack of skill.

it will be fixed, and skill will eventually be favored over numbers. eventually.

hail matt firor!

<chants>
"All hail ze Firor!" "All hail ze Firor!"

Samadhi

Lava_Croft wrote: »

...
Repeating the same argument over and over doesn't make it any more or less valid.

I agree, having to repeat over and over that AoE caps are what is causing blobbing does not make the point being made any less valid. The point remains fully valid even though the blobbers will continually try to disagree with it.

AoE caps will continue to promote blobbing, and removing AoE caps will solve the issue.

I look forward to the day when we can all say "I'm sure glad ZOS finally solved the blobbing issue by removing AoE caps" though.

Cody

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Blobbing is awesome...so long as it doesn't bring the server down

They can easily be avoided if you don't want to play them and sometimes when they begin to wipe because of siege or just too many players around then you can jump in the bandwagon and get 20 kills in 10 secs. It's a win-win :P

But seriously, considering how much the NPCs have been buffed, keeps would never change hands if it weren't for blobs. I saw some veteran pugs try to take Roe yesterday and they got absolutely slaughtered. At every flag you now have:
- 4 DK NPCs with 10k Health and then 2-3 more spawn out of nowhere
- 2 Healers healing those DKs for 1k hp per sec if not interrupted and also now putting Negates on the flags
- 2 Archers sniping from atop for 2.5k dmg
- 1-2 Storm Mages putting down a storm AoE for 500 DPS

Remember how easy it was to clear those NPCs a couple of months back? If there's some decent defence inside with oils and such, anything but big organised groups will wipe. Every step of the way, I see ZOS making changes that strongly encourage strict grouping or blobbing.

Like I said, so long as the servers hold out, what's the issue really? Especially if they intend to introduce Arena style small-scale combat.

I myself have seen keeps AND resources taken, without this strategy. you don't need to get 50 other players spamming impulse to take a keep/resource. in fact you don't need 50 players for EITHER of these things. I have taken resources when it was just me and 3 other players. iv seen keeps took with just 10-15 players. the only reason you would need to get a giant zerg like this together, is in the non-vet campaign, due to the VR5 guards, but even then you don't have access to impulse. so you cant even do it right in that campaign. Impulse blobing/zerging takes a lot of the fun out of the game. they are almost impossible to kill, they cause lag, siege weapons to bug out, and other things. something needs to be done about them

Columba

Just because you think it worked in other games doesn't mean removing aoe caps in one move isn't reckless. This isn't those games. Those games were designed with no aoe caps at the beginning. Balance is a delicate thing and throwing massive changes into a game at one time is stupid.

Samadhi

Columba wrote: »

Just because you think it worked in other games doesn't mean removing aoe caps in one move isn't reckless. This isn't those games. Those games were designed with no aoe caps at the beginning. Balance is a delicate thing and throwing massive changes into a game at one time is stupid.

I personally remember how much more fun I had with this game in beta and launch, back before ZOS revealed the AoE cap.
Once players became aware of the AoE cap, they began to exploit it by forming blobs to protect themselves from enemy damage.
The obvious solution to the blobbing exploitation of a poor game mechanic is to remove that game mechanic.

In Elder Scrolls Online, back when players thought that AoEs would kill them more quickly by blobbing, blobbing wasn't an issue.

Lowbei

Samadhi wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Just because you think it worked in other games doesn't mean removing aoe caps in one move isn't reckless. This isn't those games. Those games were designed with no aoe caps at the beginning. Balance is a delicate thing and throwing massive changes into a game at one time is stupid.

I personally remember how much more fun I had with this game in beta and launch, back before ZOS revealed the AoE cap.
Once players became aware of the AoE cap, they began to exploit it by forming blobs to protect themselves from enemy damage.
The obvious solution to the blobbing exploitation of a poor game mechanic is to remove that game mechanic.

In Elder Scrolls Online, back when players thought that AoEs would kill them more quickly by blobbing, blobbing wasn't an issue.

yup

Columba

Samadhi wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Just because you think it worked in other games doesn't mean removing aoe caps in one move isn't reckless. This isn't those games. Those games were designed with no aoe caps at the beginning. Balance is a delicate thing and throwing massive changes into a game at one time is stupid.

I personally remember how much more fun I had with this game in beta and launch, back before ZOS revealed the AoE cap.
Once players became aware of the AoE cap, they began to exploit it by forming blobs to protect themselves from enemy damage.
The obvious solution to the blobbing exploitation of a poor game mechanic is to remove that game mechanic.

In Elder Scrolls Online, back when players thought that AoEs would kill them more quickly by blobbing, blobbing wasn't an issue.

There other ways to deal with it, but I agree with your problem statement. Blindly jumping to a solution is rarely the right way to solve the problem.

Koensol

If this game had more ranged splash AoE that was worthwhile, blobs would be more easy to beat. Look to Warhammer Online for proof. Right now the only good AoE is PBAOE. Which is exactly what blobs are utilizing. Also, this game doesn't have anything like removing buffs on enemies or another form of utility to counter stuff like barrier and immovable.

Lowbei

this isnt rocket science...

in beta when everyone thought there were no caps, pvp was a lot of fun and nobody formed blobs to try to exploit an ae cap mechanic.

reread that until it sticks. thanks

Columba

Koensol wrote: »

If this game had more ranged splash AoE that was worthwhile, blobs would be more easy to beat. Look to Warhammer Online for proof. Right now the only good AoE is PBAOE. Which is exactly what blobs are utilizing. Also, this game doesn't have anything like removing buffs on enemies or another form of utility to counter stuff like barrier and immovable.

Then change that pbaoe?

Krinaman

Harnesh wrote: »

Krinaman wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

There are numerous superior tactical positions within a keep or fortress than the middle of an open area...

Maybe try to fight the enemy rather than doing battle with flags?

Taking any objective in this game requires standing on the flag. If defenders can simply rain uncapped AOEs on said flag you will never take it. And before you say attack the defenders first that means coming into a choke point as well.

What will happen is AOEs will be the only viable choice in the game if you care about objectives at all and the class/build with the most powerful AOE(s) will dominate. Especially ranged AOEs.

As far as I know oil has no numbers cap it is almost always being poured on flags and what not, so you already have to deal with uncapped aoe at choke points.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about uncapped aoe all it really changes is people clumping up and your forced to have a little more situational awareness. Diminishing returns from the center of the aoe worked well in DAoC.

Yes and a decently defended keep can pretty much only be taken by an organized force that stacks up because of it. But with uncapped AOEs it won't be a couple oil on the flag it will be every defender AOEing as well.

Lowbei

Krinaman wrote: »

Harnesh wrote: »

Krinaman wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

There are numerous superior tactical positions within a keep or fortress than the middle of an open area...

Maybe try to fight the enemy rather than doing battle with flags?

Taking any objective in this game requires standing on the flag. If defenders can simply rain uncapped AOEs on said flag you will never take it. And before you say attack the defenders first that means coming into a choke point as well.

What will happen is AOEs will be the only viable choice in the game if you care about objectives at all and the class/build with the most powerful AOE(s) will dominate. Especially ranged AOEs.

As far as I know oil has no numbers cap it is almost always being poured on flags and what not, so you already have to deal with uncapped aoe at choke points.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about uncapped aoe all it really changes is people clumping up and your forced to have a little more situational awareness. Diminishing returns from the center of the aoe worked well in DAoC.

Yes and a decently defended keep can pretty much only be taken by an organized force that stacks up because of it. But with uncapped AOEs it won't be a couple oil on the flag it will be every defender AOEing as well.

this worked fine in daoc for over a decade in actual practice, just not in your head in theory. gee i wonder which one we should go with.