Why does this game insist on totally breaking the lore?

gurluasb16_ESO

Elder Scrolls lore has always been a broad thing, with lore that often contradicts itself.

Victus

Logan9a wrote: »

rbenkepub19_ESO wrote: »

Wow. How the heck to you even know all this detail? My hat is off to you, sir.

If I was the game people, I'd just look into hiring this guy. Job title, "Lore Guardian".

A lot is pulled from the Wiki:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Alduin's_Wall_(Lore)

Phantax

Why does this game insist on totally breaking the lore?

Anvos

1. Your towers thing is largely pointless since the history already shows that only the dragonfire actively makes large deadric portals too unstable to establish. Also using Alduin's Wall is filled with lol as guess what the world didn't end and there is nothing stopping Akatosh from making more random people like the pc dragonborn.

2. In a world where its possible for the entirety of Morrowind to sink below the sea and return without negative effects to drown the Akaviri, your doubting that mass scale terraforming is possible.

3. Not that hard to guess how lore book time issue works since even in this game we see some less than ethical scholars who are willing to just stick their name on an already existing previous work and claim it as their own.

4. Little town founded before in past little town destroyed and largely forgotten, new people found town and keep the old name.

Also I say your wildly wrong on your top 6 most powerful beings assessment especially with Talos and Trinimac.

RinaldoGandolphi

Wow, I didn't realize this topic would see such support and healthy discussion. I thank everyone for their comments and encouragement.

About the Towers:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

The Towers are various constructs, both natural and artificial, located all across Nirn. Their existence ensures Mundus remains stabilized as they uphold the barriers between the mortal plane and the realms of Oblivion.

Each tower bears a stone that serves as it's heart and provides it with stability and power. If a stone is ever removed from a tower or destroyed, the tower becomes inert or deactivated. Should all existing towers fail, Mundus itself would cease to exist.

According to Kirkbride, The Towers themselves are what makes up the Barrier, the White-Gold Tower is just one of the many towers.

Green Sap Tower is active during the events of ESO as its the Giant Tree Walking City of Falinesti. Months before the Oblivion Crisis, The Green Sap Tower for the first time in history stopped walking and rooted itself in place, thus signaling its de-activation. (Most likey due to the actions of Mankar Cameron and the Mythic Dawn)

So the only towers inactive during TES Online are the White-Gold, Orchialiac, and Brass Towers.

Amulet of Kings (A little backstory)

The Amulet of Kings is actually a large Ayleid Soul gem. The soul gem holds the oversoul of the previous emperors. The Dragonborn emperors are different from The Last Dragonborn as in they don't have the dragon's soul. Alessia and her heirs had the "Dragon Blood", but not the dragon soul like the Last Dragonborn. Remen Cyrodiil had the Dragon soul just like the Last Dragonborn, as did Talos.

The fact that Mankar Cameron was able to wear the Amulet of Kings showed he was descended from the Cameron royal line and had some of the Dragon Blood in him

When using the Amulet of Kings, those with the Dragon Blood bind their soul to the Amulet of Kings and it allows them to light the Dragonfires, however they can't shout or use the Voice like a real Dragonborn that is gifted with it by Akatosh.

At the events of Pale Pass in the 1st Era when Remen I stopped the Akaviri Invasion, when Remen shouted with the Th'um the Akaviri stopping fighting right then and there, and bowed before Remen and stated "We were not hunting" or "we did not mean to offend" "We were looking for you" They later became the Dragonguard...

The Akaviri knew how to defeat Alduin,(Dragons originated in Akaviri and the Avaviri followed them to Tamriel after they drove them out of Akavir) they helped create the Dragonrend Shout, however they needed a Dragonborn in order to use it. Alduin recognizes The Dragonbane(an Ancient Akaviri Longsword with special magic meant to kill dragons) when you use it against him, as the Akaviri helped the Ancient Nords fight Alduin(as seen on Alduin's Wall), but Hakon, Feldir, and Gormlaith were not strong enough to defeat Alduin even with Dragonrend.

So the Akaviri knew Alduin would be back, thats why they came to Tamriel in the 1st era..they were looking for a Dragonborn, to guard and his/her descendents until Alduin's return.


Much of the "Lighting the Dragonfires to protect Nirn from Oblivion" was Alessian propaganda, as the Ayleids had no such pact with Akatosh, and yet the Daedric Princes did not invade Tamriel and attempt to destroy it like Dagon did in the 4th era....they couldn't because of the towers... bindings and very small portals were possible (still are) but nothing the size of Oblivion Gates or Anchors would be possible due to the towers.

Prior to the pact between Alessia and Akatosh, it was possible to summon a daedra on Nirn and make it a permant binding forever or until the Daedra was killed, after the pact, Oblivion Bindings are no longer permanent, even the Daedric Artifacts that the Princes gift to mortals eventually end up unbinding and going back to Oblivion....so the Ayleids could no longer conscript millions of permanent Daedric troops to fight Allessia's Rebellion....so of course it greatly weakned them.

Lastly, you also have to consider the source as the Alessian Order use much of that time period to slant history and writings in their favor to try and legitimize their right to rule. The Alessians were a very Iron Fist type of ruling party, and anyone who disagreed with them was usually killed or exiled to go knows where, and they were later defeated at the Battle of Glenumbra Moors and other big battles that led to the fall of the Alessian Dynasty and the rise of Remen I and the Remen Dynasty.

Cyrodiil

.A lot of this depends on Talos's use of CHIM...since CHIM allows one to escape from all known binds and limitations of the universe, Did Talos change the Cyrodiil of the past as well as the present and future? I am not sure, and thats where it gets fuzzy.

We know for a fact that Talos changed the Cyrodiil of the late 2nd era onwards, as even Mankar Cameron is his Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes:Book 3 states:

"CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land. Witness the home of the Red King Once Jungled."

So even Mankar Cameron concedes that Talos did infact achieve CHIM, which not only allowed him to ascend, but he was able to reshape Cyrodiil in the blink of an eye.

Some very good tomes on the CHIM topic for those who want to learn more about it.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_36_Lessons_of_Vivec
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mythic_Dawn_Commentaries
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Spirit_of_Nirn,_God_of_Mortals

The bottom line is, did Talos change the Cyrodiil of the past as well as the present or future, or did he just merely change the present and future?

Now this is a worthy debate, and I won't say its out of the realm of possibilities that Talos changed the entire Timeline, as that is possible with CHIM much the way Mannimarco actually ascended himself and transformed himself into the Necromancers Moon(God of the Necromancer)which allows the creation of Black Soul gems by blocking Arkay's restrictions for a short time via the Shade of Reverent, and The Necromancers Moon (Mannimarco) is the only one who knows the secrets to becoming a lich, which many follwers in his Worm Cult pray to him and he usually comes in their dreams and reveals the methods needed to achieve it)....Mannaimacro left a weak mortal version of himself behind that was killed by the Champion of Cyrodiil in the 3rd era

(or a different person using Mannimarco as a title for the Leader of the Order of the Worm, both are correct assumptions)

If Talos did indeed use CHIM to alter the timeline of Cyrodiil, then this should be explained in-game with a book somewhere.

3rd and 4th era books

Now if the Planemend is sucking in books from past, present, and future, then that is a plausible explanation I could live with. As i would have nothing to argue there concerning that revelation. As that's definitely something within Mora's prevue. However, they should have more of the towers de-activated in order to legitimize Molag Bal's plot.

Cropsford

As for Cropsford...thats a stretch....whats the chances of two towns being built in a 700 year period having the same name, in the same area...thats really a stretch...im not going to say its not possible, but whats the chances? Most city and town names have a special meaning to the people who found them...it would be hard pressed to find a two towns of the same name founded in close proximity....im not saying it isn't possible...im just say odds are not in favor of it happening.

Conclusion

I just want to state I am not unreasonable, im very flexible concerning lore, as i even concede to the Talos and Planemeld theories above concerining books from 3rd and 4th era....Some or the lore issues in this game could be fixed by the developer addressing them....putting a quest in concerning the books would be a GREAT idea....overall, i think this game still has a lot of potential, but Zenimax needs to stretch their legs, and write some of their own lore for the time period, as they have a period all to their own, and I would love to see what kind of creativity could come out of this group.

I would even be willing to write them some Great Lore just due to the fact that I love this series. I play this game as all TES games for the story, not the gameplay...thats how i learned so much about lore...because i have read every single scap of text i could find in or about these games since Arena....i think its a blast to read the books, and see these works of art.

Again thanks everyone for your support, I had no idea this thread would become what it has...which is a good health discussion about the story of TES

We can all learn and benfit from these types of discussions, and when you know the story, the gameplay is so much more satisfying...:)

RinaldoGandolphi

Victus wrote: »

Logan9a wrote: »

rbenkepub19_ESO wrote: »

Wow. How the heck to you even know all this detail? My hat is off to you, sir.

If I was the game people, I'd just look into hiring this guy. Job title, "Lore Guardian".

A lot is pulled from the Wiki:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Alduin's_Wall_(Lore)

I didn't pull from the Wiki, I just like to link to sources for folks to read more about it themselves

stumpy999

Ease up Ripley; you've blown the transaxle. You're just grinding metal

Kaloran

It's not like the folks and preachers of the 3rd and 4th era could, you know, be wrong or anything. I mean, events that happen centuries prior to their lives would easily be known to them in exact detail rather than myth, folklore, legend, and allegory. Nope. Not a chance that their telling of the history of Tamriel could be flawed in any way.

Sotha_Sil

I'm too old for that stuff.

BBSooner

@woodsro‌ I don't think we can consider the tower wiki page to be full canon since it is largely written based on Kirkbrides post-employment fan fiction "Nu Mantia Intercept". We're told constantly in Oblivion (and ESO) that the strength of the barrier is based on the dragonfires and the amulet, and their power is show to the player first hand in both games, so deeming them alessian propaganda seems disproportionate to its significance.

Im fully able to believe in ZOS' premise of the soulburst, especially considering they worked with Bethesda to keep world continuity.

RinaldoGandolphi

Anvos wrote: »

1. Your towers thing is largely pointless since the history already shows that only the dragonfire actively makes large deadric portals too unstable to establish. Also using Alduin's Wall is filled with lol as guess what the world didn't end and there is nothing stopping Akatosh from making more random people like the pc dragonborn.

Not true, prior to Alessia's pact, the Ayleids were able to summon permanent Daedric bindings which allowed them to summon millions of Daedra as permanent armies, no way Alessia's Rebellion would have worked in the face of such odds. Akatosh's Covenent rendered the bindings temporary which means the Ayleids could no longer permanently bind as many daedra to their armies as they wanted, which significantly weakend them.

The Dragonfires make the bindings temporary, but its the towers the maintain the barriers. This fact is pressed home that even during the Ayleid rule, the Daedra were not able to invade Tamriel....because Dagon is the Daedric Prince of Destruction, he cares not if elves, men, or the fairy godmother is charge of nirn, he yearns to destroy it no matter what because its his nature and sphere to do so.

Mehrunes Dagon couldn't invade Nirn back during the Ayleid period, for the same reason he couldn't during the Alessian period...too many towers active the barrier was too strong.

The Dragonfires prevent permanent daedric bindings and summonings which weakned the Ayleids considerably....as the Barriers prevent "large stable portals big enough to put an anchor or siege engine through" but smaller portals are quite possible though they are unstable.

Anvos wrote: »

3. In a world where its possible for the entirety of Morrowind to sink below the sea and return without negative effects to drown the Akaviri, your doubting that mass scale terraforming is possible.

Umm...The Tribunal of Morrowind were "Living Gods" they were using the power of Lorkhan's Heart to achieve divinity...nothing was impossible for them because they were Gods....in a blink of an eye, Vivec taught all the Dunmer to breath water, and then flooded the whole continent killing the Akaviri, being the Gods they were at the time, using the power of Lorkhan's heart they were just as easily able to restore the land because the Tribunal actually achieve CHIM though the power of Lorkhan's heart, so thats what makes that possible, and its very well explained. [/quote]

Anvos wrote: »

Not that hard to guess how lore book time issue works since even in this game we see some less than ethical scholars who are willing to just stick their name on an already existing previous work and claim it as their own.

Now i won't disagree with this point, your spot on.

Anvos wrote: »

Little town founded before in past little town destroyed and largely forgotten, new people found town and keep the old name.

If the town is forgotten, then how do they know to keep the old name? (Just giving you a hard time bud, its in jest)

Anvos wrote: »

Also I say your wildly wrong on your top 6 most powerful beings assessment especially with Talos and Trinimac.

Umm according to Kirkbride, and many others Talos is the most powerful entity in TES Universe bar none....

You do realize that deity known as Talos is made up of the Oversoul of Tiber Septim, Zurin Arctus, and Wulfharth (The Ash King), and his top spot was further cemented as the Last Dragonborn is the final piece of the Talos Oversoul Divinity.

If you listen to the Greybeards, they actually name you (the Last Dragonborn) as Talos walking Nirn. Talos is the ONLY BEING to ever survive being spoken to by the Greybeards...EXCEPT the Last Dragonborn...all others have died or been turned to Ash like even Wulfharth couldn't stand the unbrindled Voice of the Greybeards. So yes the Last Dragonborn is part of Talos, and is the final piece of the Talos Oversoul that makes him the most powerful being in TES universe.

Trinimac defeated Shor/Lorkhan in single combat, but was later tricked by Boethiah and turned into Malacath....Trinimac and his true power still exist inside Malacath, but its suppressed by the curse put on him.

Jygalagg is the Daedric Prince of Order, he was the most powerful of all the Daedric Princes, and he took notes and knew everything about everything quite literally...he knew all the Gods and other Daedric Princes strengths and weaknesses, and cast lots of probability and chance down to a science that he could accurately predict events....he was so powerful and so accurate, that the other Daedric Princes became afraid of his power, and they all ganged up on him and cursed him with Maddness and changed him into Sheogorath....had they not done that, Jygalagg would have invaded and taken over the rest of the Daedric realms..i say that makes him pretty tough...

You could switch places with a few, and to be honest IMO Ebonarm deserves the 2nd or 3rd spot on this due to the fact that he is the God of War of Tamriel, and is the perfect warrior, perfect in everyway and in single combat the only Divine that would stand a chance against him is Talos...yes Ebonarm would defeat Akatosh in single combat....Ebonarm's right hand man and partner is Sai the God of Luck.....you literally can't lose when you have luck on your side and the deck is literally always stacked in your favor...perhaps thats why no one messes with him....The Redguards revere him, and i believe the Thalmor lost in Hammerfell in the 4th era because Ebonarm and Sai were not going to allow their people to lose to a bunch of elves....so things went so far, and then Ebonarm influences getting the Crowns and Forebears to stop fighting, and Sai influences luck in their favor to turn the tides of the battles

Lord_Hev

Ok, first off.


The towers do NOTHING at all to prevent a Daedric invasion. P E R I O D.


Where you got this conclusion from, I do not know. but it is factually incorrect, and your "use" of it, as a counter, is a blatant misunderstanding of how the barrier works, and the purpose of the Towers.


The purpose of the Towers, is to keep Nirn up and running, like a spinning gear that keeps a contraption moving.


The barrier that keeps Mundus safe from Oblivion, was not created until after the fall of the Ayleids and the Amulet of Kings getting "buffed" by Akatosh.


The Barrier and the Towers... have zero connection. ZERO.


So, knowing these two very simple concepts, your entire first point, is incorrect.



This is why the Soul Burst happens.

The barrier was taken down when Mannimarco seized the Amulet of Kings + No Dragonborn to keep the Dragonfires lit = No barrier. THIS is why the Soulburst happens. This is why Dagon could also escalate a colossal Daedric invasion in full-force. THIS is why. Towers are as relevant as to what I ate last night for dinner in regards to this fundamental point. That is to say, they do not even deserve to be in this discussion. Unless of course, you want to discuss why White-Gold Tower was focused on twice by Daedric Powers... That is because White-Gold is conveniently... the literal, center of the universe. But, for the actual Daedric invasion to happen? All that is needed is for the Barrier to be taken offline. That's it. Presto-bingo, Take the annoying barrier down, then it is party-time on Mundus for the Daedra, all are welcome, drinks are on Sanguine.






Your second point, yeah I agree. This was a lazy move. And a bad one at that. But there is time-warpness going on. Cheap excuse I know. But, meh.




Third point... lol


Settlements... villages... cities.... even countries. Rise... and they fall... Rise... and fall.

You didn't need to then start digressing about strawman arguments justifying the atrocities of Talos, and the tyranny of human rule. All the while painting the Aldmeri in a one-dimensional perspective biased out-look of solely, the human side of the argument. WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH CROPSFORD?


It has nothing to do with it, other then giving you some avenue to rant? But rest assured, settlements rise and fall. It's been 1,000 years.... LOTS of "Cropsfords" could have risen... and fallen in that expanse of time... Say it with me now, "Rise and fall."

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

As for the Molag Bal being able to invade, I think it's because the most powerful tower is the White-Gold tower due to the covenant with Akatosh. In the First Age, most towers were active, but Daedra were actively doing stuff on the mortal plane.

The towers main function is not keeping the Daedra out, but keeping Tamriel intact. If all the Towers cease to exist, Mundus is undone.

^

Still doesn't excuse the other stuff though.

Aeratus

Well, first, the issue of Cyrodiil being a jungle is blatant retcon. However, I think it's been retconned in a manner that is not too illogical. Essentially, anything written in the text can be retconned, and IMO it's fine as long as the retcon is not too absurd.

However, the inconsistency that has bothered me the most is the Khajiit sub-race, namely Senche Tiger being a plain animal rather than a Khajiit. Obviously, this was due to development limitations, but it's just plain lazy handling of lore.

Also, the Kirkbride list of most powerful beings is not canon.

DeLindsay

@woodsro grats on you for being the biggest TES nerd on the planet. I mean it, seriously, that's a ton of info to either know or know where to look up and how to order into a comment to make it viable for others to read and reasonably understand.

Outside of that, chill dude it's a game, not the end of the world. ZoS said a VERY long time ago that they wouldn't be able to be 100% faithful to TES Lore within the scope of an MMO. By very long time ago I mean a year or more before it even launched.

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

DeLindsay wrote: »

@woodsro grats on you for being the biggest TES nerd on the planet. I mean it, seriously, that's a ton of info to either know or know where to look up and how to order into a comment to make it viable for others to read and reasonably understand.

Outside of that, chill dude it's a game, not the end of the world. ZoS said a VERY long time ago that they wouldn't be able to be 100% faithful to TES Lore within the scope of an MMO. By very long time ago I mean a year or more before it even launched.

If you can't stay completely true to the lore, then don't make a game in that universe. Simple concept.

sirston

The reason all the lore is broken because It can just be explained with a "Dragon Break" when the timeline splits does it own thing but come back to the original time line.

gurluasb16_ESO

Aeratus wrote: »

Well, first, the issue of Cyrodiil being a jungle is blatant retcon. However, I think it's been retconned in a manner that is not too illogical. Essentially, anything written in the text can be retconned, and IMO it's fine as long as the retcon is not too absurd.

However, the inconsistency that has bothered me the most is the Khajiit sub-race, namely Senche Tiger being a plain animal rather than a Khajiit. Obviously, this was due to development limitations, but it's just plain lazy handling of lore.

Also, the Kirkbride list of most powerful beings is not canon.

The Senche are Khajit. And may even be sapient, they just cannot speak. I looked for sources on it and nowhere does it say the Senche can speak.
They are most definitely Khajit though.

xKyrio

Awesome post from the op, ive got nothing to say of it, but i was wondering. Are there any acctual books that you can buy that are about the Lore of tamriel?

gurluasb16_ESO

Real life books?

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

Vuron wrote: »

Hats off to you for all the work you put into the OP. I didn't realize that there were people that actually cared about the lore. Something new learned every day, I guess. I think that Nerevarine addressed your concern, though.

This isn't a continuation of the TES series, but an offshoot set in the Tamriel universe. You could always look at it as an alternate Tamriel.

btw, it's "canon", not "cannon". A cannon goes "boom".

it's not an offshoot or an alternate universe, that has never been stated and would honestly be rather disappointing.

To add to the lore breaking, I'd like to mention one priest of the tribunal in EP mentions they have stopped doing their pilgrimages to the red mountain, BUT that doesn't happen until dagoth ur and his ash vampires ambush them much later, closer to the events of morrowind.

From what I hear we only actually have about 100 years before martin septim takes the crown, and these kings and queens don't even make the history books so this is an inconsequential time period.

That said, molag bal isn't trying to get to nirn, he's trying to get nirn to him. The ability of the daedric princes to involve themselves in any of the games has always seemed like more than it should be per the lore though. This one requires some suspension of disbelief.

I'm pretty sure they made cyrodiil not a jungle and put in familiar towns so people could recognize things, tbh these towns wouldn't last as long as they must have to fit into here and also oblivion.

We were talking in another thread about how the lusty argonian maid was written by crassius curio. So why is it in this time, he is not born yet. However, there are additional books lying around that talk about the tale being very old and coming in many forms from many different bards.

The only thing I can't get past is cyrodiil not being a jungle since that is very hard to retro-edit an excuse for. I think the other things can be worked around. Oh, and that comment about the tribunal's pilgrimages, they had to be not paying attention when they added that in.

emeraldbay

ebondeath wrote: »

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

But yeah, it would have been easier to explain this if the mistakes weren't made in the first place. Even ESO exclusive books mention scholars from the 3rd era. And finally...Ayrenn's Dominion is not the same as the Racist Dominions.

Her Aldmeri Dominion is actually trying to be benevolent to other races and not dominant.

Except for that whole awkward Proprietary Academy thing.

You mean the part where the Veiled Heritance infiltrated the academy and used it to further their racist agenda? Yeah, that wasn't Ayrenn's fault.

Poor Ayrenn...all she wanted was to unite Tamriel under a single banner.

Aeratus

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

Well, first, the issue of Cyrodiil being a jungle is blatant retcon. However, I think it's been retconned in a manner that is not too illogical. Essentially, anything written in the text can be retconned, and IMO it's fine as long as the retcon is not too absurd.

However, the inconsistency that has bothered me the most is the Khajiit sub-race, namely Senche Tiger being a plain animal rather than a Khajiit. Obviously, this was due to development limitations, but it's just plain lazy handling of lore.

Also, the Kirkbride list of most powerful beings is not canon.

The Senche are Khajit. And may even be sapient, they just cannot speak. I looked for sources on it and nowhere does it say the Senche can speak.
They are most definitely Khajit though.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I had not read that one before.

AngryNord

woodsro wrote: »

Green Sap Tower is active during the events of ESO as its the Giant Tree Walking City of Falinesti. Months before the Oblivion Crisis, The Green Sap Tower for the first time in history stopped walking and rooted itself in place, thus signaling its de-activation. (Most likey due to the actions of Mankar Cameron and the Mythic Dawn)

So the only towers inactive during TES Online are the White-Gold, Orchialiac, and Brass Towers.

Rule numero uno when trying to teach others about lore: Know it yourself. ESO takes place 1000 years before Skyrim, 800 years before Oblivion.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

@woodsro grats on you for being the biggest TES nerd on the planet. I mean it, seriously, that's a ton of info to either know or know where to look up and how to order into a comment to make it viable for others to read and reasonably understand.

Outside of that, chill dude it's a game, not the end of the world. ZoS said a VERY long time ago that they wouldn't be able to be 100% faithful to TES Lore within the scope of an MMO. By very long time ago I mean a year or more before it even launched.

If you can't stay completely true to the lore, then don't make a game in that universe. Simple concept.

Very true. They should've stopped at Daggerfall.
/sarcasm

KariTR

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Ok, first off.

[Snip]

This has been an interesting and civil discussion, there is really no need to be so aggressively condescending.

kieso

I've learned a lot reading this!

Enodoc

Yeah the Tribunal stop pilgrimaging in 2E 882, that's 300 years away yet.

woodsro wrote: »

Green Sap Tower is active during the events of ESO as its the Giant Tree Walking City of Falinesti. Months before the Oblivion Crisis, The Green Sap Tower for the first time in history stopped walking and rooted itself in place, thus signaling its de-activation.

@woodsro there is debate over which tree Green-Sap actually is. Many sources state that Green-Sap is Elden Root, not Falinesti. (But on the note of Falinesti; it's missing in this time period, and therefore may not be active.)

I was just wondering why you believe the Towers are more important than the Covenant in the protection of Mundus from Oblivion. As I understand it, the Towers are the anchors of the barrier, but the Covenant is the protection itself. If the Covenant is broken, no matter how many anchors you have, the barrier is nullified.

Lord_Draevan

emeraldbay wrote: »

You mean the part where the Veiled Heritance infiltrated the academy and used it to further their racist agenda? Yeah, that wasn't Ayrenn's fault.

True, but she did nothing to stop it. Either she knew it was going on and didn't care, or she was blind to what was going on in her own backyard. Neither are very promising, but to be fair she's young and has much to learn.

emeraldbay wrote: »

Poor Ayrenn...all she wanted was to unite Tamriel under a single banner.

... where elves rule over humanity. She might have wanted to unite Tamriel, but she didn't want humans as equals to elves.

Lord_Hev

KariTR wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Ok, first off.

[Snip]

This has been an interesting and civil discussion, there is really no need to be so aggressively condescending.

Sorry, the OP's first post was quite condescending as well. And assertively aggressive. But yes, I should not have reacted in such a tone as well. I apologize for that.