Why does this game insist on totally breaking the lore?

RinaldoGandolphi

This is something that has been bugging me since launch, and I have kept my mouth shut about it, but discovering the town of Cropsford was the final straw for me and i can't be silent no longer.

This game has pretty much gone totally against all the lore that is cannon. Lets get started and set the record straight:

1. Why the Soul Burst couldn't happen

1. Alduin's Wall - Alduin's Wall was constructed by the Akaviri Dragonguard in the 1st era 2812 (written before the events of TESO). Alduin's Wall makes prophecies about the coming of Alduin's Return, Those prophecies are.

1. When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world - This is referring to TES:Arena when Jagar Tharn impersonated Uriel Septim VII using the Staff of Chaos while imprisoning the Real Emperor during the Imperial Simulacrum. The Destruction of the Staff of Chaos slightly weakened the barrier between Nirn and Oblivion.

2. When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped -This is refering to the events of TES:Daggerfall and the return of Numindium (which is a tower) and the Dragon Breaking of Time known as the "Warp In the West" The Numindium completely disappears thus signaling the deactivation of the Brass Tower and the weakening of the seal between Oblivion and Nirn.

3. When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles - This refers to the Tribunal of Morrowind Alamlexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil losing their powers to Dagoth Ur and later being killed, and the Destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan. This event de-activated the Red Tower. It also predicts the Ministry of Truth, that was being held in place by magical means, crashing into Vicec City causing Red Mountain to erupt destroying most of Morrowind.

4. When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls - This predicts Uriel Septim VII being Assassinated by the Mythic Dawn, and the Septim Dynasty dieing out with the death of Martin Septim. It also predicts the Dragonfires not being lit.

It also predicts the de-activation of the White Gold Tower with the Destruction of the Amulet of Kings (Which Martin Septim Destroyed the Amulet of Kings, and used its power inside to become the Avatar of the Dragon God Akatosh himself to do Battle with Mehrunes Dagon who had came to Tamriel to destroy all of Nirn...after a raging battle between the Giant Mehrunes Dagon and the Flaming Dragon God Akatosh, Akatosh finally defeated Dagon and sent him back to Oblivion...at the cost of the destruction of the Amulet of Kings, and the ending of the Dragonborn Septim Dynasty.

5. When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding - This refers to the Civil War in the Events of the 4th era. Ulfric Stormcloak killed the High King, the land is sundered(split apart by war), and bleeding (brothers and sisters killing one another)

Skyrim is the Snow Tower, or the Snow Tower Exists in Skyrim think The Throat of The World. It also refers to the time-wound on the Throat of the World where the 1st tongues(Hakon, Gormlaith, and Feldir) sent Alduin Adrift in time.

6. The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn. This one is self explanatory, the Last Dragonborn appears right around the the time Alduin returns.

So just going by Alduin's Wall, the Soulburst couldn't happen, BUT thats not the only reason why...the Primary Reason is "THE TOWERS"

All over Tamriel are special towers, the most Famous being the Adamantine Tower and the White Gold Tower....These towers have a special purpose, and that purpose is keeping a barrier Between Nirn and Oblivion.

The White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil became the most popular due to its central location, and it being the seat of the Empire (St. Alessia and Remen), The Amulet of Kings is a small part of the equation, as it keeps the White Gold Tower functioning, but its NOT the only tower protecting Tamriel.

During the times leading up to the Oblivion Crisis, the Red, Brass, Orichalc, and Green Sap towers, had been de-activiated. During the Oblivion Crisis, Dagon attacked Alinor/Summerset Isles and destroyed the Crystal-like-Law Tower as the final piece he needed make the barrier weak enough to allow him to come to Tamriel.

This also confirmed in Kirkbrides lore writings for the game(leading up to Oblivion, read the letters to Chancellor Ocato in the months leading up to the Oblivion Crisis)

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

So Mehrunes Dagon, who is the 6th most powerful entity in TES Universe, only eclipsed by Talos, Akatosh, Trinimac, Jygalaag, and Shor needed 5 of the towers de-activated just so he could open Oblivion Gates, and needed 6 of them de-activated in order to come to Nirn, yet Molag Bal only needs 1 tower(White Gold) de-activated before he can use Daedric Anchors to try and pull Nirn though the barrier?...right.....The Soulburst simply couldn't happen, too many of the Towers are still functional.

2. The Cyrodiil in TESO is wholly inaccurate

Cyrodiil did NOT look the way it does in Oblivion and TESO until Talos Ascended and used the power of CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil from a junge to what it looks like today.

Cyrodiil, Dragon Empire, Starry Heart of Nirn, and Seat of Sundered Kings... Indeed, if the history of the Nords is the history of humans on Tamriel, then Cyrodiil is the throne from which they will decide their destiny. It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. - Pocket Guide To The Empire First Edition

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil

They tried to say its a "Transcription error" but thats a load of Hogwash, as if you listen to Talos's Speech he tells us how he transforms Cyrodiil from a Jungle:

From the Many Headed Talos

"And after the throne of Alinor did finally break at the feet of Men, and news of it came to the Dragon Emperor in Cyrodiil, he gathered his captains and spoke to them, saying:

"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos

Fire Up The Elder Scrolls Skyrim, go to Whiterun and listen to Heimskr, a Preist of Talos, as he preaches in front of the Shrine of Talos, and listen to him. The same line I quoted above is also quoted in game in Skyrim.

Cyrodiill WAS A JUNGLE DURING THE INTERREGNUM PERIOD OF TAMRIEL'S HISTORY.

It was not transformed into what it looks like in TESO (Oblivion) Until Talos sscended becoming the God of Man, and used the power of the CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil into the beautiful country it is.
[/quote]

The over-abundance of 3rd and 4th era books in this game

Just check your nearest bookshelf, the game is full of books that haven't been written yet, such as Ruminations of the Elder Scrolls by Septimus Signus(4th era), Last King of the Ayleids by Hermma Cinna (3rd era), many others which I won't list because it will make this thread too long, as its already too long as it is...Fact is most of the books you find in this game haven't even been written yet, and their authors haven't even been born yet....but who cares! right?

Cropsford

Oh Cropsford, oh beautiful Cropsford, I love you so! The only problem is YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FOUNDED YET!

The Town of Cropsford wasn't even founded until the 3rd era when the Champion of Cyrodiil drove away the Goblin tribes allowing the town's founders to settle the town and get it started....so why is the town even in the game? Are we all under the influence of some really good Skooma, and thats how we explain why a town exists that hasn't been founded yet, and the founders of the town haven't even been born yet?

It makes me wonder what they are going to do to the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild...at this time in lore, the Dark Brotherhood and the Morag Tong are at each others throats carrying out a waging war of assassination and murder in the shadows unknown to the people much like the Lycan vs Vampire feud of Underworld that went on for centuries without the humans finding out about it.

Queen Ayreen started the 3 Banners Wars and thrusted Tamriel into conflict due to her believing men have no right to rule, when the Empire, was the 1st fair rulership Tamriel has had since the Elves were overtrown. (As fair as fair could be considering the Empire accepted the Orcs, and was the only institution to grant the Orcs equal membership, citizenship status, and actually treated them fairly) Elven rule was nothing but enslaving the men, beastfolk, and Orcs.

This explains Talos contempt for the Aldmeri Dominion, as Talos was born in the High Rock Kingdom of Alcaire under the name Hjaliti-Early Beard.

Conclusion

I like this game. I enjoy playing it. However, I can no longer read any of the in-game lore books, nor really read anything thats laying around because it all pretty much breaks legitimate cannonized lore, which is a shame.

Zenimax had a whole time period where they were free to write their own lore, their own story, and instead chose to put 3rd and 4th era books in the game, and design the game and history in straight contradiction to what the lore dictates. It actually saddens me.

Regardless, I will continue to play for now and hope that Zenimax can correct some of these glaring problems in the future. I know this is a long post, but its how i feel about the game and lore...right now TESO just completely breaks established lore when there was no reason for them to do so, as they had a whole time period where they could have wrote their own and chose not to.

nerevarine1138

As I recall, weren't people moaning and whining that the Cyrodiil in Oblivion was supposed to be a jungle?

The whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. They have a few centuries to play with here where the lore has not been clearly established, and due to the lack of surviving records, it can pretty much be whatever they want, so long as the events don't have permanent effects on the world.

rbenkepub19_ESO

Wow. How the heck to you even know all this detail? My hat is off to you, sir.

I can't begin to address the individual points you raise; I can only surmise that some bending of the lore was needed to 1) Turn ES into an MMO; 2) Turn ES into an interesting MMO.

There's no point in trying to debate me on those points - I can't defend them. I'm just throwing them out there.

Enkil

Some of these things annoy me as well.. especially seeing books that are written in later eras.

Vuron

Hats off to you for all the work you put into the OP. I didn't realize that there were people that actually cared about the lore. Something new learned every day, I guess. I think that Nerevarine addressed your concern, though.

This isn't a continuation of the TES series, but an offshoot set in the Tamriel universe. You could always look at it as an alternate Tamriel.

btw, it's "canon", not "cannon". A cannon goes "boom".

Azmodyus

I believe that attempts at establishing The Elder Scrolls lore as a static universe diminishes its metaphorical nature. Which is an issue that is also completely separate from the fact that I can shape the world as I see fit in every installment.

forbarcusb16_ESO

Wait, doesn't it say somewhere on the Wiki that Elder Scrolls' prophecies aren't certain, and can be changed? So this whole soulburst is still a possibility, right? And seeing as we're in the Interregnum the lore can be thrown around a little and shaped as nothing really here has been recorded too accurately.

gurluasb16_ESO

As far as Cyrodiil I think that Chim altered the landscape retroactively. And remnants of the old Pre-Jungle Cyrodiil still exists. Chim probably functions similar to a Dragon Break, so that while something is altered, not everything in the universe is changed to fit the change. This is the same with Vivec and his attempt to make him into someone else than the man who betrayed Nerevar using Chim. Even if he now isn't the same man who betrayed Nerevar, he still is to an extent because there is lore that hasn't been altered.

As for the later written books.. I say it's likely Hermaeous Mora had something to do with it, as he has books form the past, present and future.

But yeah, it would have been easier to explain this if the mistakes weren't made in the first place. Even ESO exclusive books mention scholars from the 3rd era. And finally...Ayrenn's Dominion is not the same as the Racist Dominions.

Her Aldmeri Dominion is actually trying to be benevolent to other races and not dominant.

Sonja

OP is amazing, lovely thread, i have learned a lot of stuff i never knew or noticed. Really, really insightful thread.

BBSooner

Lore discrepancies irk me a little, not enough to ruin my enjoyment though. ZOS worked with Bethesda regarding the lore, and simply by virtue of dragon breaks and the nature of the scrolls themselves nothing is set in stone (except what we see explicitly in the games). Taking this approach I'm able to explain away a lot of discrepancies as misinformation in the latter eras.

The "canon" of TES is fluid, so flubs by ZOS don't bother me as much as, say, adjustments to LotR lore in those products.

Laura

Honestly I stopped caring about half way through questing. The ebonheart pact seems pretty on target but everything was all wrong at pretty much every turn on the other two factions.

One thing that really got to me is It seems like they screwed up khajit lore too when they made a female mane (I mean come on I'm all for equality but lore is lore). One of the defining factors of the mane is... well.. there mane. The previous leader had a glorious mane.

" The nominal head of the Khajiiti religion is a unique form of Khajiit known as The Mane. Khajiit legend claims that it is only possible for one mane to live at a time, and his birth is triggered by the birth of a newborn Khajiit when the two moons have fully aligned in the sky. The Mane is apparently bipedal, and clearly has the power of speech, but does not fall into any of the defined Khajiiti subtypes: he is simply unique. While he is, in theory, a neutral, unbiased religious leader, the Mane is the true power in Elsweyr, and was ultimately responsible for the success of the attempted unification of the province in the last Second Era."

I will admit I may have missed something here it is just the very latest thing I noticed but the OP is right, lore is bashed at every single turn in this game. I still love the game though and I'm fully willing to forgive.

There is also the possibility of a dragon break right?

kassandratheclericb14_ESO

BBSooner wrote: »

Lore discrepancies irk me a little, not enough to ruin my enjoyment though. ZOS worked with Bethesda regarding the lore, and simply by virtue of dragon breaks and the nature of the scrolls themselves nothing is set in stone (except what we see explicitly in the games). Taking this approach I'm able to explain away a lot of discrepancies as misinformation in the latter eras.

The "canon" of TES is fluid, so flubs by ZOS don't bother me as much as, say, adjustments to LotR lore in those products.

This...

Lore is fluid in the TES Universe and Bethesda has very rarely made anything remotely looking like"canon" for the very reason of continuing games. You can ask them all you want but you can not pin them down. This leaves the story open for games and lets them develop ideas more fully at a later time.

The Imperial Library is a great resource for all this information. You can read all the in-game books there (from any and every game) and then the forums always has a lively and robust "discussion" on various lore related issues.

Since many of the game books were written not by first-person observers but later authors I would guess that they maybe are not "written in stone" so to speak. The Elder Scrolls themselves contain prophesy but it is fluid and can change. If you played Oblivion you would know of one circumstance that "someone" used this to their advantage. I won't spoil it if you have not played.

So maybe things aren't consistent...but they did work closely with Beth on the lore and I don't think any major deviations would have been really permitted. They picked this time period as there is so few things known about it. All video games have inconsistencies (just like movies and books-I'm looking at you Lucas!) and I personally don't think the small ones really prevent my enjoyment.

There is no Canon in the Elder Scrolls.

Ghanima_Atreides

I am not the biggest lore buff out there but regarding the first point...I think the Dragonfires are related to Daedric invasions, not the Towers. The Towers are "anchors" which keep Nirn from dissolving into Oblivion (and it's been theorized that the masterplan of the 4th Era Thalmor is to let it do just that, so that they can achieve the immortality they feel has been stolen from them by its creation. Getting rid of the man-god Talos is part of that.)

In Oblivion, it's stated very clearly that the reason Dagon could begin his invasion was the fact that the Dragonfires were unlit, therefore the ancient covenant with Akatosh was no longer in effect. During the Soulburst a similar thing happened - Varen Aquilarios attempted to light the Dragonfires but was not Dragonborn and therefore inadvertently broke the covenant with Akatosh, giving Molag Bal his chance.

Remember that at the end of Oblivion, Martin's sacrifice makes it so that the Dragonfires are no longer needed to protect Nirn. That's why by the time Skyrim's events roll around, Nirn is still safe from Daedric invasions, even though most of the Towers are deactivated.

ebondeath

gurluasb16_ESO wrote: »

But yeah, it would have been easier to explain this if the mistakes weren't made in the first place. Even ESO exclusive books mention scholars from the 3rd era. And finally...Ayrenn's Dominion is not the same as the Racist Dominions.

Her Aldmeri Dominion is actually trying to be benevolent to other races and not dominant.

Except for that whole awkward Proprietary Academy thing.


I suppose if I actually knew this lore I would be upset, but since I don't, ignorance is bliss. Like watching the Eragon movie without having read the book, I have no concept of how horribly it's been mangled.

gurluasb16_ESO

They certainly have had some slip ups, but often I am amazed at how they actually get very obscure lore right, that we may even mistake for being wrong.

For instance, Senche-Tigers are actually Khajit, and not just Tigers.
A Pacrooti letter confirmed that.

As for the Molag Bal being able to invade, I think it's because the most powerful tower is the White-Gold tower due to the covenant with Akatosh. In the First Age, most towers were active, but Daedra were actively doing stuff on the mortal plane.

The towers main function is not keeping the Daedra out, but keeping Tamriel intact. If all the Towers cease to exist, Mundus is undone.

BBSooner

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

I am not the biggest lore buff out there but regarding the first point...I think the Dragonfires are related to Daedric invasions, not the Towers. The Towers are "anchors" which keep Nirn from dissolving into Oblivion (and it's been theorized that the masterplan of the 4th Era Thalmor is to let it do just that, so that they can achieve the immortality they feel has been stolen from them by its creation. Getting rid of the man-god Talos is part of that.)

In Oblivion, it's stated very clearly that the reason Dagon could begin his invasion was the fact that the Dragonfires were unlit, therefore the ancient covenant with Akatosh was no longer in effect. During the Soulburst a similar thing happened - Varen Aquilarios attempted to light the Dragonfires but was not Dragonborn and therefore inadvertently broke the covenant with Akatosh, giving Molag Bal his chance.

Remember that at the end of Oblivion, Martin's sacrifice makes it so that the Dragonfires are no longer needed to protect Nirn. That's why by the time Skyrim's events roll around, Nirn is still safe from Daedric invasions, even though most of the Towers are deactivated.

I very much agree with this. I had always thought that towesr maintained nirn while the dragonfires and the amulet were gifted to man (Alessia) as a promise to protect them from oblivion.

TehMagnus

What is this "lore" you speak of?

Mondo

You are Right! Molag Bal is a lie! when you hit V12 and have Cadwells Gold your Char will awake and you have to level again from 1!!!!!!!!!!!

Enodoc

@woodsro you've got a bunch of good points there. Some of these things have also annoyed me, but I've been searching for their retcons and I think I've found most of them. So I will try to alleviate your concerns (I started writing this at 14:20, so anything posted since I will not have read):

1. The Soulburst
You are right of course that the Towers anchor Mundus in Oblivion, and their ability to do this was set at Convention (that et'Ada meeting in Adamantine Tower at the end of the Dawn). However, only the Covenant between Akatosh and Alessia cements any protection. The Covenant is an agreement between Aedra and Man, and is symbolised by the Amulet of Kings. The Covenant is actively broken by Mannimarco/Varen, nullifying all protection of Towers. Mundus is unmoored from its Aurbic positioning, setting it adrift in Oblivion; the Spokes of the Wheel are broken and the Hub is freefalling in the Spaces. (In comparison, the Dragonfires being unlit, as in 3E 433, just renders the protection weakened; the Covenant was never broken here.)

2. Cyrodiil and Talos
Agreed, this one is the worst. But with their in-game texts and my own extrapolated retconning, I have come up with this:
First of all, Subtropical Cyrodiil: A Speculation directly refutes the "transcription error" nonsense. It still doesn't directly explain why Cyrodiil is not tropical now (ESO time), which it should be for Talos to change it later. But it may explain why it is not tropical later and may not have been temperate earlier. So my theory is this:
White-Gold Tower (an echo of Adamantine Tower, the causal nexus of linear time) responded to Man's new dominance of said Tower (and reception of its Stone, the Amulet of Kings) following the overthrowing of the Ayleids, and altered the local flow of time, thereby setting in motion the changing of the climate (SCAS suggests it was gradual, not immediate). Talos achieving Chim and becoming the new owner of the Tower and Stone finalised the temporal flux which began with the Alessian rebellion, fixing that which was and would be into a temperate climate. The temporal flux means it may have been perceived to be either temperate or tropical between Alessia and Talos, due to it being both at once, while it was definitely one before, and definitely the other after. (Essentially, CHIM acts retroactively during the intermittent period.)

3. Books
It's Hermaeus Mora's fault. Or rather, one of his worshippers. From the loading screen of Gandranen Ruins: Tales say that Gandranen was built by an Ayleid sorcerer, a worshiper of Hermaeus Mora who so loved books that she created a series of magical halls that would attract books from across Tamriel, no matter where—or when—hey were published.
This ruin is pulling books out of their established time. Such a power is enhanced by the Soulburst/Planemeld unmooring Mundus, affecting the linearity of time.

4. Cropsford
There's no reason a town with the same name could not have existed there 700 years ago, collapsed, disappeared, and then be refounded in the same place with the same name.

Side note:
Ayrenn didn't "start the war". All three factions want control of the Imperial City, there's no statement of who invaded Cyrodiil first.

stumpy999

Kudos for the original post. Just to have read all the back story etc is a feat.

The main thrust for me is that the game is less elder scrolls and more popular archetypes.

Just look at the videos, an assasins creed/thief, a transvestite Elrond, and a nord.

Elder scrolls games had a unique look to some very traditional races like orcs and elves. There seems to be a shift away from this now. Especially with the female elves, they are getting more Tolkien.

But hey, I still enjoy the game, I just don't bother with the lore now

BBSooner

@Enodoc , if I could "insightful" your post more than once, I would. I had no idea about the "Books" (for some reason this was the perceived lore discrepency that actually bothered me lol). My eye rolling will likely cease when I find an out of era book now!

Logan9a

rbenkepub19_ESO wrote: »

Wow. How the heck to you even know all this detail? My hat is off to you, sir.

If I was the game people, I'd just look into hiring this guy. Job title, "Lore Guardian".

Sotha_Sil

You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based anyway?

And it's not like there is one version of the truth in ES. We all know that, its history is made of many stories.

Enodoc

BBSooner wrote: »

@Enodoc , if I could "insightful" your post more than once, I would. I had no idea about the "Books" (for some reason this was the perceived lore discrepency that actually bothered me lol). My eye rolling will likely cease when I find an out of era book now!

I was quite happy to see that loading screen text. Even without the idea that the Soulburst/Planemeld affected the linearity of time (which is just interpretation and speculation really), I think that pretty much explains the books.

Enodoc

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based anyway?

You indeed have to be careful with Imperial Library, but their stuff is usually pretty good. Except the Kirkbridian stuff; anything Kirkbridian from after his departure from Bethesda is not considered true canon.

BBSooner

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based anyway?

And it's not like there is one version of the truth in ES. We all know that, its history is made of many stories.

My biggest problem with IL is that a lot of the open discussion there (at least while I visited) seemed to view Kirkbrides post-employment writing as canon.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based ?

Many Headed Talos and Nu-mantia intercepts were written by former dev Michael Kirkbride, and don't appear in-game (except in Heimskr's ravings)

Sometimes his stuff is still used in the games, like The Book of the Dragonborn, and Mythic Dawn Commentaries, which is why it sometimes gets confusing when his works are referenced.

Faulgor

woodsro wrote: »

During the times leading up to the Oblivion Crisis, the Red, Brass, Orichalc, and Green Sap towers, had been de-activiated. During the Oblivion Crisis, Dagon attacked Alinor/Summerset Isles and destroyed the Crystal-like-Law Tower as the final piece he needed make the barrier weak enough to allow him to come to Tamriel.

woodsro wrote: »

[...] yet Molag Bal only needs 1 tower(White Gold) de-activated before he can use Daedric Anchors to try and pull Nirn though the barrier?...right.....The Soulburst simply couldn't happen, too many of the Towers are still functional.

Before ESO, Walk-Brass is missing its stone and Orichalc is destroyed. Green Sap is also absent. Mannimarco deactivates White-Gold by using Chim-el Adabal for his ritual and pact with Molag Bal. So we are down at least 4 towers as well, not just one. But there is not enough evidence to believe that just because Dagon needed 5 towers down, so does Bal. Circumstances were different.
Further, it is implied that conquering Nirn is acutally not Molag Bal's ultimate goal, but something different and as of yet unknown - he is the god of schemes after all. So he might have known full well that there are still too many towers active to complete the Planemeld.
I'm not quite sure what Alduin's Wall has do to with the Soulburst, though. Just because it wasn't mentioned? It was evidently not important enough to signify the arrival of Alduin.

As for the books, this would have to be discussed on a case-by-case basis. They made some explanations for The Lusty Argonian Maid, I can't see why in principle this couldn't work for other books. But if you want to rant about it, keep bringing up a complete list. Maybe ZOS will do you a favor and remove them.

Concerning Cropsford, it is entirely possible that the name is older than Oblivion and has been simply adopted by the community there. 800 years is a long time.

I agree that Cyrodiil should look more like in Oblivion, but the lore-reasons are very much debateable - which is what makes TES fun, but I think this has been covered numerous times already.

So, no, "completely breaks established lore" is way too harsh.

Mission

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

As I recall, weren't people moaning and whining that the Cyrodiil in Oblivion was supposed to be a jungle?

The whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. They have a few centuries to play with here where the lore has not been clearly established, and due to the lack of surviving records, it can pretty much be whatever they want, so long as the events don't have permanent effects on the world.

There is actually a book in game that explains that the thought that Cyrodiil was a jungle during this time was a mis-translation or something like that. Can't remember the name of the book though.

Sotha_Sil

BBSooner wrote: »

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based anyway?

And it's not like there is one version of the truth in ES. We all know that, its history is made of many stories.

My biggest problem with IL is that a lot of the open discussion there (at least while I visited) seemed to view Kirkbrides post-employment writing as canon.

Well that's the thing. If you start criticizing ESO you have to say what you consider part of its Lore or not... and that's quite a difficult question. And as there are many different stories about it(the gods, the events...) and not one just "one big truth", it's pretty obvious to me that this thread is useless.


There is no such thing as ONE TRUTH in real life so why would there be in a game ??

Lore fans always say " I KNOW THE TRUTH, IT'S LIKE THIS, I KNOW IT, I AM SURE" and what I would like to say to all of them is "REALLY ??? ". You can't be serious ^^

Enodoc

Mission wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

As I recall, weren't people moaning and whining that the Cyrodiil in Oblivion was supposed to be a jungle?

The whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. They have a few centuries to play with here where the lore has not been clearly established, and due to the lack of surviving records, it can pretty much be whatever they want, so long as the events don't have permanent effects on the world.

There is actually a book in game that explains that the thought that Cyrodiil was a jungle during this time was a mis-translation or something like that. Can't remember the name of the book though.

That book is called Heartland of Cyrodiil and it is directly countered by Subtropical Cyrodiil. With one countering the other, neither is valid.