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Why does this game insist on totally breaking the lore?

RinaldoGandolphi
RinaldoGandolphi
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This is something that has been bugging me since launch, and I have kept my mouth shut about it, but discovering the town of Cropsford was the final straw for me and i can't be silent no longer.

This game has pretty much gone totally against all the lore that is cannon. Lets get started and set the record straight:

1. Why the Soul Burst couldn't happen
1. Alduin's Wall - Alduin's Wall was constructed by the Akaviri Dragonguard in the 1st era 2812 (written before the events of TESO). Alduin's Wall makes prophecies about the coming of Alduin's Return, Those prophecies are.

1. When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world - This is referring to TES:Arena when Jagar Tharn impersonated Uriel Septim VII using the Staff of Chaos while imprisoning the Real Emperor during the Imperial Simulacrum. The Destruction of the Staff of Chaos slightly weakened the barrier between Nirn and Oblivion.

2. When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped -This is refering to the events of TES:Daggerfall and the return of Numindium (which is a tower) and the Dragon Breaking of Time known as the "Warp In the West" The Numindium completely disappears thus signaling the deactivation of the Brass Tower and the weakening of the seal between Oblivion and Nirn.

3. When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles - This refers to the Tribunal of Morrowind Alamlexia, Vivec, and Sotha Sil losing their powers to Dagoth Ur and later being killed, and the Destruction of the Heart of Lorkhan. This event de-activated the Red Tower. It also predicts the Ministry of Truth, that was being held in place by magical means, crashing into Vicec City causing Red Mountain to erupt destroying most of Morrowind.

4. When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls - This predicts Uriel Septim VII being Assassinated by the Mythic Dawn, and the Septim Dynasty dieing out with the death of Martin Septim. It also predicts the Dragonfires not being lit.

It also predicts the de-activation of the White Gold Tower with the Destruction of the Amulet of Kings (Which Martin Septim Destroyed the Amulet of Kings, and used its power inside to become the Avatar of the Dragon God Akatosh himself to do Battle with Mehrunes Dagon who had came to Tamriel to destroy all of Nirn...after a raging battle between the Giant Mehrunes Dagon and the Flaming Dragon God Akatosh, Akatosh finally defeated Dagon and sent him back to Oblivion...at the cost of the destruction of the Amulet of Kings, and the ending of the Dragonborn Septim Dynasty.

5. When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding - This refers to the Civil War in the Events of the 4th era. Ulfric Stormcloak killed the High King, the land is sundered(split apart by war), and bleeding (brothers and sisters killing one another)

Skyrim is the Snow Tower, or the Snow Tower Exists in Skyrim think The Throat of The World. It also refers to the time-wound on the Throat of the World where the 1st tongues(Hakon, Gormlaith, and Feldir) sent Alduin Adrift in time.

6. The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn. This one is self explanatory, the Last Dragonborn appears right around the the time Alduin returns.

So just going by Alduin's Wall, the Soulburst couldn't happen, BUT thats not the only reason why...the Primary Reason is "THE TOWERS"
All over Tamriel are special towers, the most Famous being the Adamantine Tower and the White Gold Tower....These towers have a special purpose, and that purpose is keeping a barrier Between Nirn and Oblivion.

The White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil became the most popular due to its central location, and it being the seat of the Empire (St. Alessia and Remen), The Amulet of Kings is a small part of the equation, as it keeps the White Gold Tower functioning, but its NOT the only tower protecting Tamriel.

During the times leading up to the Oblivion Crisis, the Red, Brass, Orichalc, and Green Sap towers, had been de-activiated. During the Oblivion Crisis, Dagon attacked Alinor/Summerset Isles and destroyed the Crystal-like-Law Tower as the final piece he needed make the barrier weak enough to allow him to come to Tamriel.

This also confirmed in Kirkbrides lore writings for the game(leading up to Oblivion, read the letters to Chancellor Ocato in the months leading up to the Oblivion Crisis)

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Towers

So Mehrunes Dagon, who is the 6th most powerful entity in TES Universe, only eclipsed by Talos, Akatosh, Trinimac, Jygalaag, and Shor needed 5 of the towers de-activated just so he could open Oblivion Gates, and needed 6 of them de-activated in order to come to Nirn, yet Molag Bal only needs 1 tower(White Gold) de-activated before he can use Daedric Anchors to try and pull Nirn though the barrier?...right.....The Soulburst simply couldn't happen, too many of the Towers are still functional.

2. The Cyrodiil in TESO is wholly inaccurate

Cyrodiil did NOT look the way it does in Oblivion and TESO until Talos Ascended and used the power of CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil from a junge to what it looks like today.
Cyrodiil, Dragon Empire, Starry Heart of Nirn, and Seat of Sundered Kings... Indeed, if the history of the Nords is the history of humans on Tamriel, then Cyrodiil is the throne from which they will decide their destiny. It is the largest region of the continent, and most is endless jungle. - Pocket Guide To The Empire First Edition

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-cyrodiil

They tried to say its a "Transcription error" but thats a load of Hogwash, as if you listen to Talos's Speech he tells us how he transforms Cyrodiil from a Jungle:

From the Many Headed Talos

"And after the throne of Alinor did finally break at the feet of Men, and news of it came to the Dragon Emperor in Cyrodiil, he gathered his captains and spoke to them, saying:

"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos

Fire Up The Elder Scrolls Skyrim, go to Whiterun and listen to Heimskr, a Preist of Talos, as he preaches in front of the Shrine of Talos, and listen to him. The same line I quoted above is also quoted in game in Skyrim.

Cyrodiill WAS A JUNGLE DURING THE INTERREGNUM PERIOD OF TAMRIEL'S HISTORY.

It was not transformed into what it looks like in TESO (Oblivion) Until Talos sscended becoming the God of Man, and used the power of the CHIM and the Voice to transform Cyrodiil into the beautiful country it is.
[/quote]

The over-abundance of 3rd and 4th era books in this game

Just check your nearest bookshelf, the game is full of books that haven't been written yet, such as Ruminations of the Elder Scrolls by Septimus Signus(4th era), Last King of the Ayleids by Hermma Cinna (3rd era), many others which I won't list because it will make this thread too long, as its already too long as it is...Fact is most of the books you find in this game haven't even been written yet, and their authors haven't even been born yet....but who cares! right?

Cropsford

Oh Cropsford, oh beautiful Cropsford, I love you so! The only problem is YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN FOUNDED YET!

The Town of Cropsford wasn't even founded until the 3rd era when the Champion of Cyrodiil drove away the Goblin tribes allowing the town's founders to settle the town and get it started....so why is the town even in the game? Are we all under the influence of some really good Skooma, and thats how we explain why a town exists that hasn't been founded yet, and the founders of the town haven't even been born yet?

It makes me wonder what they are going to do to the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild...at this time in lore, the Dark Brotherhood and the Morag Tong are at each others throats carrying out a waging war of assassination and murder in the shadows unknown to the people much like the Lycan vs Vampire feud of Underworld that went on for centuries without the humans finding out about it.

Queen Ayreen started the 3 Banners Wars and thrusted Tamriel into conflict due to her believing men have no right to rule, when the Empire, was the 1st fair rulership Tamriel has had since the Elves were overtrown. (As fair as fair could be considering the Empire accepted the Orcs, and was the only institution to grant the Orcs equal membership, citizenship status, and actually treated them fairly) Elven rule was nothing but enslaving the men, beastfolk, and Orcs.

This explains Talos contempt for the Aldmeri Dominion, as Talos was born in the High Rock Kingdom of Alcaire under the name Hjaliti-Early Beard.

Conclusion

I like this game. I enjoy playing it. However, I can no longer read any of the in-game lore books, nor really read anything thats laying around because it all pretty much breaks legitimate cannonized lore, which is a shame.

Zenimax had a whole time period where they were free to write their own lore, their own story, and instead chose to put 3rd and 4th era books in the game, and design the game and history in straight contradiction to what the lore dictates. It actually saddens me.

Regardless, I will continue to play for now and hope that Zenimax can correct some of these glaring problems in the future. I know this is a long post, but its how i feel about the game and lore...right now TESO just completely breaks established lore when there was no reason for them to do so, as they had a whole time period where they could have wrote their own and chose not to.
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  • Sonja
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    OP is amazing, lovely thread, i have learned a lot of stuff i never knew or noticed. Really, really insightful thread.
  • BBSooner
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    Lore discrepancies irk me a little, not enough to ruin my enjoyment though. ZOS worked with Bethesda regarding the lore, and simply by virtue of dragon breaks and the nature of the scrolls themselves nothing is set in stone (except what we see explicitly in the games). Taking this approach I'm able to explain away a lot of discrepancies as misinformation in the latter eras.

    The "canon" of TES is fluid, so flubs by ZOS don't bother me as much as, say, adjustments to LotR lore in those products.
    Edited by BBSooner on July 30, 2014 1:23PM
  • ebondeath
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    But yeah, it would have been easier to explain this if the mistakes weren't made in the first place. Even ESO exclusive books mention scholars from the 3rd era. And finally...Ayrenn's Dominion is not the same as the Racist Dominions.

    Her Aldmeri Dominion is actually trying to be benevolent to other races and not dominant.

    Except for that whole awkward Proprietary Academy thing.


    I suppose if I actually knew this lore I would be upset, but since I don't, ignorance is bliss. Like watching the Eragon movie without having read the book, I have no concept of how horribly it's been mangled.
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  • BBSooner
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    I am not the biggest lore buff out there but regarding the first point...I think the Dragonfires are related to Daedric invasions, not the Towers. The Towers are "anchors" which keep Nirn from dissolving into Oblivion (and it's been theorized that the masterplan of the 4th Era Thalmor is to let it do just that, so that they can achieve the immortality they feel has been stolen from them by its creation. Getting rid of the man-god Talos is part of that.)

    In Oblivion, it's stated very clearly that the reason Dagon could begin his invasion was the fact that the Dragonfires were unlit, therefore the ancient covenant with Akatosh was no longer in effect. During the Soulburst a similar thing happened - Varen Aquilarios attempted to light the Dragonfires but was not Dragonborn and therefore inadvertently broke the covenant with Akatosh, giving Molag Bal his chance.

    Remember that at the end of Oblivion, Martin's sacrifice makes it so that the Dragonfires are no longer needed to protect Nirn. That's why by the time Skyrim's events roll around, Nirn is still safe from Daedric invasions, even though most of the Towers are deactivated.

    I very much agree with this. I had always thought that towesr maintained nirn while the dragonfires and the amulet were gifted to man (Alessia) as a promise to protect them from oblivion.
  • stumpy999
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    Kudos for the original post. Just to have read all the back story etc is a feat.

    The main thrust for me is that the game is less elder scrolls and more popular archetypes.

    Just look at the videos, an assasins creed/thief, a transvestite Elrond, and a nord.

    Elder scrolls games had a unique look to some very traditional races like orcs and elves. There seems to be a shift away from this now. Especially with the female elves, they are getting more Tolkien.

    But hey, I still enjoy the game, I just don't bother with the lore now
  • BBSooner
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    @Enodoc , if I could "insightful" your post more than once, I would. I had no idea about the "Books" (for some reason this was the perceived lore discrepency that actually bothered me lol). My eye rolling will likely cease when I find an out of era book now!
    Edited by BBSooner on July 30, 2014 2:04PM
  • Enodoc
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    BBSooner wrote: »
    @Enodoc , if I could "insightful" your post more than once, I would. I had no idea about the "Books" (for some reason this was the perceived lore discrepency that actually bothered me lol). My eye rolling will likely cease when I find an out of era book now!
    I was quite happy to see that loading screen text. Even without the idea that the Soulburst/Planemeld affected the linearity of time (which is just interpretation and speculation really), I think that pretty much explains the books.
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  • theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO
    Sotha_Sil wrote: »
    You are quoting a lot about the imperial library. But isn't it a part fan-based ?

    Many Headed Talos and Nu-mantia intercepts were written by former dev Michael Kirkbride, and don't appear in-game (except in Heimskr's ravings)

    Sometimes his stuff is still used in the games, like The Book of the Dragonborn, and Mythic Dawn Commentaries, which is why it sometimes gets confusing when his works are referenced.
    Edited by theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO on July 30, 2014 2:14PM
  • Mission
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    As I recall, weren't people moaning and whining that the Cyrodiil in Oblivion was supposed to be a jungle?

    The whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. They have a few centuries to play with here where the lore has not been clearly established, and due to the lack of surviving records, it can pretty much be whatever they want, so long as the events don't have permanent effects on the world.

    There is actually a book in game that explains that the thought that Cyrodiil was a jungle during this time was a mis-translation or something like that. Can't remember the name of the book though.
  • Enodoc
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    Mission wrote: »
    As I recall, weren't people moaning and whining that the Cyrodiil in Oblivion was supposed to be a jungle?

    The whole point of setting the game during the Interregnum is that the period has always been shrouded in mystery. They have a few centuries to play with here where the lore has not been clearly established, and due to the lack of surviving records, it can pretty much be whatever they want, so long as the events don't have permanent effects on the world.

    There is actually a book in game that explains that the thought that Cyrodiil was a jungle during this time was a mis-translation or something like that. Can't remember the name of the book though.
    That book is called Heartland of Cyrodiil and it is directly countered by Subtropical Cyrodiil. With one countering the other, neither is valid.
    Edited by Enodoc on July 30, 2014 2:29PM
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