~+~ You Lied to US! - Fiery Grip ~+~

Mortosk · July 2014

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Don't worry, they aren't done nerfing you yet. When you are completely templarized or worse, then you will know the nerfs are done.

I wish i could say that being a templar i never had to worry about *** nerfs , but i will always remember the 2 weeks nerf to jabs :P.

The nerf to puncturing strikes was another prime example of something that was hastily implemented without being documented or even tested.

A need arose, and they needed a quick solution.

Goal: Prevent bots from using this skill effectively.

Effect: Completely ruin the feel of combat for thousands of paying customers (not just bots) to the point where it felt like we were fighting in slow motion, not to mention the fact that it was effectively a 65% nerf to the DPS of this skill on a class that doesn't even have another AOE DPS skill that comes close to the same damage output.

They don't think these things through, they just act.

Requiemslove · July 2014

Aeaeren wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Lol @ at all these DKs acting like spoiled children. I can't wait to see what the reaction is when Reflective Scales gets nerfed.

Actually I can't wait for the day they HIT you with the same nerf bat and how you are going to react to that. Personally I haven't used chains in a long time and all the other DK nerfs didn't really bother me so this one is even more meh! The problem I have is how they go about determining how they are going to wack something, I mean do they just react to people complaining about it and then wack it to where it is useless or is there some thought actually behind it. It seems to be it is the 1st option which will not make a healthy game in the long run.

Haha jokes on you, I play Templar, we got hit with the nerf bat in beta, so I got to level to VR12 with a broken class, before the massive VR nerf and before the balance passes. It doesn't get any worse then that.

I play Templar too up to VR7 and just because they have issues crying for nerfing another class is not the answer, Templars need a bit of love but then again they seem to hold their own in PvP decently, not DK wise but they have a completely different set of skills. Seriously you're not helping to make the game better by supporting some of calls for nerfing this skill or that. You're turning ESO into Elder Scrolls for Carebears. Next they will be introducing the Ref Bear who will blow a whistle if said opponent gets to rough with you. I can see Health and Safety inspector coming before every fight. Get my point? Some adjustments might be needed but rejoicing when they pretty much destroy an entire skill is not an adjustment and it doesn't help to maintain a healthy game in the long run.

Awesome post. Kudos.

NerfEverything · July 2014

Aeaeren wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Aeaeren wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

Lol @ at all these DKs acting like spoiled children. I can't wait to see what the reaction is when Reflective Scales gets nerfed.

Actually I can't wait for the day they HIT you with the same nerf bat and how you are going to react to that. Personally I haven't used chains in a long time and all the other DK nerfs didn't really bother me so this one is even more meh! The problem I have is how they go about determining how they are going to wack something, I mean do they just react to people complaining about it and then wack it to where it is useless or is there some thought actually behind it. It seems to be it is the 1st option which will not make a healthy game in the long run.

Haha jokes on you, I play Templar, we got hit with the nerf bat in beta, so I got to level to VR12 with a broken class, before the massive VR nerf and before the balance passes. It doesn't get any worse then that.

I play Templar too up to VR7 and just because they have issues crying for nerfing another class is not the answer, Templars need a bit of love but then again they seem to hold their own in PvP decently, not DK wise but they have a completely different set of skills. Seriously you're not helping to make the game better by supporting some of calls for nerfing this skill or that. You're turning ESO into Elder Scrolls for Carebears. Next they will be introducing the Ref Bear who will blow a whistle if said opponent gets to rough with you. I can see Health and Safety inspector coming before every fight. Get my point? Some adjustments might be needed but rejoicing when they pretty much destroy an entire skill is not an adjustment and it doesn't help to maintain a healthy game in the long run.

I do see your point. But I stand by my username. Nerf Everything! (esp DKs)

Malpherian · July 2014

As an individual who primarily uses pulls and knockbacks in all sorts of game breaking mannerisms...

I can say that the skill was broken to begin with and shouldn't have even been in game in it's prior state, Now it's simply useless. (Which is the same as them removing it from game).

On knock backs, These are really fun, I can insta kill players easily by knocking them off a wall.... In groups no less.

So yea, Fiery grip is not the only skill or class that has severely OP and unfair broken mechanics, they all do. And if someone can pull someone off a wall or knock them off it, let them do it.

If the skills in game, you shouldn't decide what is or is not a proper use for it. Because players will always find a use you don;t intend, and the only way to really fix that is to simply either remove the skills (all of them), or shut your servers down.

Because it's something players will ALWAYS do.

Requiemslove · July 2014

Just fix pull skills so they cant pull enemies into fatal situations. I believe what the intention of such skills is, is to briefly have control of your enemies movement to aid you in killing them. [the traditional non exploit way] Another possibility, would be a counter skill that could potentially turn the pull against the user.

Robocles · July 2014

Aeaeren wrote: »

Um one thing since this was a dramatic change to a skill should I not get back my 2 points I put into it so I can chose to keep it or use them elsewhere?

Dream on.

SDZald · July 2014

Mortosk wrote: »

...

They don't think these things through, they just act.

Not only do they "just act" but they don't even seem to do any testing of their actions before releasing it to us. Thus we end up with all kinds of unintended problems.

I have loved and played the crap out of all the TES games but honestly as an MMO, ESO seems like it was put together by a bunch of amateurs working out of a garage.

FunkyBudda · July 2014

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game. When you pull someone from their own battle lines into yours it means instant death for anyone. If you have a knock back you must enter enemy battle lines first putting yourself at risk first.

It is the concept of the power that makes it too powerful. It has nothing to do with the class it is attached to. It is bad mmo design.

I am glad about this nerf too. Since DKs were pretty vocal about the BE nerf, this nerf is a good "right back at ya" moment for me. Taste of your own medicine couldn't have been more bitter for DKs, but sweet for me

Robocles · July 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game. When you pull someone from their own battle lines into yours it means instant death for anyone. If you have a knock back you must enter enemy battle lines first putting yourself at risk first.

It is the concept of the power that makes it too powerful. It has nothing to do with the class it is attached to. It is bad mmo design.

I am glad about this nerf too. Since DKs were pretty vocal about the BE nerf, this nerf is a good "right back at ya" moment for me. Taste of your own medicine couldn't have been more bitter for DKs, but sweet for me

Wow... can you be less constructive?

SDZald · July 2014

Wo

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game. When you pull someone from their own battle lines into yours it means instant death for anyone. If you have a knock back you must enter enemy battle lines first putting yourself at risk first.

It is the concept of the power that makes it too powerful. It has nothing to do with the class it is attached to. It is bad mmo design.

I am glad about this nerf too. Since DKs were pretty vocal about the BE nerf, this nerf is a good "right back at ya" moment for me. Taste of your own medicine couldn't have been more bitter for DKs, but sweet for me

Wow what class, takes joy in others pain. I have never advocated for any Nerfs, I hate Nerfs, they should all be banned! Since I play mostly PvE every time they Nerf something to "balance" PvP all it does is mess up game play for me.

If a class is over powered in PvP why do ALL MMO companies feel they have to Nerf instead of adding counters to the other classes? Because they are lazy, its the easy thing to do.

So go ahead take joy in a class getting Nerfed because sooner or later ALL characters will be Nerfed into total boredom.

Maverick827 · July 2014

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game. When you pull someone from their own battle lines into yours it means instant death for anyone. If you have a knock back you must enter enemy battle lines first putting yourself at risk first.

It is the concept of the power that makes it too powerful. It has nothing to do with the class it is attached to. It is bad mmo design.

I am glad about this nerf too. Since DKs were pretty vocal about the BE nerf, this nerf is a good "right back at ya" moment for me. Taste of your own medicine couldn't have been more bitter for DKs, but sweet for me

And the BE nerf was a "right back at ya" for the Dark Talons nerf. Not that this gets us anywhere, but learn your history.

Emperor · July 2014

Being happy about the nerf hammer getting hit too hard on a class is just... awful

Mortosk · July 2014

Robocles wrote: »

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game

Robocles wrote: »

FunkyBudda wrote: »

Tamanous wrote: »

Glad it was nerfed. Nothing to do with DK itself. A pull attack in every single mmo is always the most OP power in game. When you pull someone from their own battle lines into yours it means instant death for anyone. If you have a knock back you must enter enemy battle lines first putting yourself at risk first.

It is the concept of the power that makes it too powerful. It has nothing to do with the class it is attached to. It is bad mmo design.

I am glad about this nerf too. Since DKs were pretty vocal about the BE nerf, this nerf is a good "right back at ya" moment for me. Taste of your own medicine couldn't have been more bitter for DKs, but sweet for me

Wow... can you be less constructive?

It is possible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48H34ukFe8g&feature=kp

Artemiisia · July 2014

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

woodlandwoodsb14_ESO · July 2014

*Facepalm* Really, ZOS? -_-

Maulkin · July 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

Emperor · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

exactly... there were ways around being pulled off a keep wall.

SDZald · July 2014

Emperor wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

exactly... there were ways around being pulled off a keep wall.

So in ZOS's great wisdom they once again make a knee jerk reaction to the cry babies on the forums and nerf a skill that renders that skill near useless and affects an entire player base for no good purpose. I am really losing my faith in ZOS. TES were GREAT single player games but as a MMO its amateur hour.

Maulkin · July 2014

SDZald wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

exactly... there were ways around being pulled off a keep wall.

So in ZOS's great wisdom they once again make a knee jerk reaction to the cry babies on the forums and nerf a skill that renders that skill near useless and affects an entire player base for no good purpose. I am really losing my faith in ZOS. TES were GREAT single player games but as a MMO its amateur hour.

I fairness this wasn't a change because of cry babies, this was a because of exploiters. It was still the wrong thing to do though.

Even more so, it the complete opposite of what they said they were changing.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ , @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_LenaicR‌ Can we get any confrimation if this was intentional? If it was, then why wasn't it documented?

Emperor · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

SDZald wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

exactly... there were ways around being pulled off a keep wall.

So in ZOS's great wisdom they once again make a knee jerk reaction to the cry babies on the forums and nerf a skill that renders that skill near useless and affects an entire player base for no good purpose. I am really losing my faith in ZOS. TES were GREAT single player games but as a MMO its amateur hour.

I fairness this wasn't a change because of cry babies, this was a because of exploiters. It was still the wrong thing to do though.

Even more so, it the complete opposite of what they said they were changing.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ , @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_LenaicR‌ Can we get any confrimation if this was intentional? If it was, then why wasn't it documented?

Yea...and if it was why did you lie to us...

WebBull · July 2014

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

SDZald wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

I didnt get mad about it, just felt it was part of the game and a good tactic for DKs to use if they could get one.

So yeah I cant see why they should remove it.

its like the old saying. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me

Not to mention that you can animation cancel all you attacks with block, like everyone else, to make yourself immune to the pull effect. Or even put Immovable on and gain immunity for 8 seconds.

Only noobs get caught out nowadays.

exactly... there were ways around being pulled off a keep wall.

So in ZOS's great wisdom they once again make a knee jerk reaction to the cry babies on the forums and nerf a skill that renders that skill near useless and affects an entire player base for no good purpose. I am really losing my faith in ZOS. TES were GREAT single player games but as a MMO its amateur hour.

I fairness this wasn't a change because of cry babies, this was a because of exploiters. It was still the wrong thing to do though.

Even more so, it the complete opposite of what they said they were changing.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ , @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ , @ZOS_LenaicR‌ Can we get any confrimation if this was intentional? If it was, then why wasn't it documented?

Thats right. Most people arent upset that it was changed, they are upset HOW it was changed. Absolutely no thought went into this nerf. They may as well have just removed the skill.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

Artemiisia wrote: »

for me as a victim of this skill, having been pulled down from the wall twice, made me rethink twice going near the end of the wall.

Like folks said, there are anti-pull methods. You can still go near the end of a wall; you just have to be aware of the folks below and prepare for such eventualities.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · July 2014

Emperor wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Emperor wrote: »

Zenimax...

I severely hope the "fix" you did for fiery grip is unintended. You added a Z-axis and we can no longer pull players that are higher/lower than us (eg. off keep walls).

I made a thread a while back saying why this would destroy the skill when you posted the skill was going to be nerfed in the upcoming updates. You specifically reassured me that you were only fixing the skill so we couldn't pull players THROUGH walls anymore which is completely understandable. You even changed your "upcoming updates" notes to express this is all you were going to do.

Now you go back on your word and make it so fiery grip can't pull players off keep walls anyway? Seriously...WTF!

I'm more ticked off at Zenimax then I ever have been. Not only because they ruined a fun skill, but because they blatently LIED TO US!

Source:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114325/patch-v1-2-3-known-issues/p1

Look under the "Combat & Gameplay" section for fiery grip.

Don't worry, they aren't done nerfing you yet. When you are completely templarized or worse, then you will know the nerfs are done.

This isn't just about nerfing. This about destroying a fun tactic that was used in the game and about Zenimax lieing to us.

lol a fun tactic that is ridiculous. I'm glad they got rid of letting people pull people off of walls. Cry moar.

bigzz03 · July 2014

Haven't you guys realized by now that this company and their dev's have no clue what they are doing? How does anything they do surprise you at this point? It's really a joke honestly. If I had a different game to play and cared more about how much they were ruining this game, i'd just stop playing and not think twice about it. It's obvious they could careless what people think, they have a plan to do something in this game and they do it without looking for feedback or what other damage it will cause. None of them listen to the community, and they just ignore MMO players that have been playing mmo's for 15+ years over 10+ of the largest mmo's.

I've sent numerous long detailed emails to this company on things that need to be addressed and the best way to address them. the reply: "sorry I can't help you, but i'll forward this to someone that looks at every single feedback email." what I read is "hey we really don't care what you say, but to shut you up i'll send this to someone else who doesn't care and never reads the feedback so the 2 hours you just wasted on writing this email is time spent you will never get back, haha. P.S. thanks for your money"

This is why this mmo will fail like the others before it. no sense in complaining and crying over every change you don't agree on..there will be a lot, prolly more than ones you will actually like.

NerfEverything · July 2014

Reading all these DK qq threads during lunch is now my favorite part of the day. The best part is that it won't stop anytime soon. More DK nerfs are on the way and whether you want to admit it or not, we all know more nerfs are needed and deserved.

WebBull · July 2014

bigzz03 wrote: »

Haven't you guys realized by now that this company and their dev's have no clue what they are doing? How does anything they do surprise you at this point? It's really a joke honestly. If I had a different game to play and cared more about how much they were ruining this game, i'd just stop playing and not think twice about it. It's obvious they could careless what people think, they have a plan to do something in this game and they do it without looking for feedback or what other damage it will cause. None of them listen to the community, and they just ignore MMO players that have been playing mmo's for 15+ years over 10+ of the largest mmo's.

They clearly lack the experience of other MMO's. Look, every MMO nerfs so it comes down to how you nerf. It's a science like most things. Other companies announce a nerf, purposly over do it on the test server, and then tone it down/adjust it prior to live. This process makes it somewhat more acceptable by the time it it's live.

In this case (and other nerfs with Zeni), no announcement, no test, no adjustment, no patch note, just whack the skill so no one uses at all.......and then don't say a word.

I still find it hard to believe that they haven't even acknowledged the change.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

WebBull wrote: »

They clearly lack the experience of other MMO's.

Surprising, considering that a number of the top named folks came from DAOC.

SoulScream · July 2014

I liked being pulled off walls. They should leave that in. I don't play a DK and I learned to adapt and use immoveable if I were to stand on the wall edge. I just think the wall gank is fun lol

WebBull · July 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

They clearly lack the experience of other MMO's.

Surprising, considering that a number of the top named folks came from DAOC.

Not really surprising. They hired the big guns at the top for direction and their names but the actual development and communication is where the game is lacking experience.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

WebBull wrote: »

Not really surprising. They hired the big guns at the top for direction and their names but the actual development and communication is where the game is lacking experience.

Logic which leads to one of two things:

1) Either the 'big guns' weren't good at giving direction on either development or communication, which means they shouldn't be considered 'big guns'...

or

2) The team ignored the direction and communication advice of the 'big guns', which would bring up the question why the 'big guns' would want their name attached to it in any way, shape or form, considering the number of mistakes made.