Maverick827 wrote: »
External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."
You mean to tell me there's nobody in the real world that puts on skimpy dresses?
so you're implying there is a secret clan of bikini clad ninjas out there wading into combat wearing 3 cloth triangles and some string?
Have you been to the Amazon? Did you know some amazonian tribes are still cut off from the world? They fight naked, they hunt naked. After all these years, they're still, naked.
what are their mortality rates like? do they have massive battles over territory with large armies? do they siege keeps, use flaming oil and other nastiness on eadch other?
1. They are still alive. And population grows despite migration outwards and zero influx.
2. Does wearing skimpy clothes means you need to engage in massive battles and siege keeps with flaming oil and nastiness? If flaming oil is your concern, I highly doubt that armour of yours could help you, it would in fact act as an oven, and your skin in contact with metal would receive burns. The flames might even get in and you have fire within.
Maverick827 wrote: »If you don't understand that a fantasy world needs to obey its own established rules, then you have no business posting in this topic.seems like you don't understand the context. we're talking tolkein-esque fantasy realms, not that fantasy you have of mila kunis sitting in your lap.
What rules? I'm pretty sure that there are no fantasy rules about the conservativeness of what people wear. Tolkein didn't make up rules, he wrote a story. In his story people wore...whatever it is that they wore. That is irrelevant to any other person's stories.
The world is full of people that dress and act differently from each other. You want realism? That is the reality. People look, dress, and act differently than you do. It would be highly realistic to see that diversity in the game.
So you seem to have missed my point COMPLETELY.
I mentioned tolkein as a way to show the differences context makes when using the word fantasy. A tolkein-esque world is a world of "High fantasy" with things like magic and elves, etc etc. Not "hey you shut up tolkein said no skimpy armor!" The argument is that in a world where people need armor to protect themselves.....you need armor to protect yourself. if the answer is simply i gotz magic ahrmur spellz, then no one would need to wear armor, and it wouldn't exist. Since the ES world has armor, that obviously isn't the case.
OK, go tell it to Gandalf, that his armor is not enough metalic and that if you would you can hit him anytime.
Noone says the magic armor is widely available so everyone will be using it.
lol gandalf has nothing to do with TES, that's a different world with it's own rules....but if you read the books he does very little direct combat, so why would he need armor?
I guess I should quote myself:The argument is that in a world where people need armor to protect themselves.....you need armor to protect yourself.
that world i'm talking about there, thats the ES universe, where people need armor.
Did anyone specify that Skimpy Armor excludes Light Armor of which does not involve *much direct combat?
*edit
Maverick827 wrote: »If you don't understand that a fantasy world needs to obey its own established rules, then you have no business posting in this topic.seems like you don't understand the context. we're talking tolkein-esque fantasy realms, not that fantasy you have of mila kunis sitting in your lap.
What rules? I'm pretty sure that there are no fantasy rules about the conservativeness of what people wear. Tolkein didn't make up rules, he wrote a story. In his story people wore...whatever it is that they wore. That is irrelevant to any other person's stories.
The world is full of people that dress and act differently from each other. You want realism? That is the reality. People look, dress, and act differently than you do. It would be highly realistic to see that diversity in the game.
So you seem to have missed my point COMPLETELY.
I mentioned tolkein as a way to show the differences context makes when using the word fantasy. A tolkein-esque world is a world of "High fantasy" with things like magic and elves, etc etc. Not "hey you shut up tolkein said no skimpy armor!" The argument is that in a world where people need armor to protect themselves.....you need armor to protect yourself. if the answer is simply i gotz magic ahrmur spellz, then no one would need to wear armor, and it wouldn't exist. Since the ES world has armor, that obviously isn't the case.
OK, go tell it to Gandalf, that his armor is not enough metalic and that if you would you can hit him anytime.
Noone says the magic armor is widely available so everyone will be using it.
lol gandalf has nothing to do with TES, that's a different world with it's own rules....but if you read the books he does very little direct combat, so why would he need armor?
I guess I should quote myself:The argument is that in a world where people need armor to protect themselves.....you need armor to protect yourself.
that world i'm talking about there, thats the ES universe, where people need armor.
HandofBane wrote: »
But people here don't need armor. We have Bound Armor spells available, and jewelry enchants that increase armor protections...
dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »If you go out on the battlefield and want heavy armor modification but you want your *** showing, or your *** dangling, I most emphatically say no. If you want to mod your game so everyone is naked, go for it. I just don't want the immersion breaking experience of having to see you stupidly run around in your underpants (or worse) and not have you also face the consequences for doing so.
1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
Maverick827 wrote: »
External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."
You mean to tell me there's nobody in the real world that puts on skimpy dresses?
so you're implying there is a secret clan of bikini clad ninjas out there wading into combat wearing 3 cloth triangles and some string?
Have you been to the Amazon? Did you know some amazonian tribes are still cut off from the world? They fight naked, they hunt naked. After all these years, they're still, naked.
what are their mortality rates like? do they have massive battles over territory with large armies? do they siege keeps, use flaming oil and other nastiness on eadch other?
1. They are still alive. And population grows despite migration outwards and zero influx.
2. Does wearing skimpy clothes means you need to engage in massive battles and siege keeps with flaming oil and nastiness? If flaming oil is your concern, I highly doubt that armour of yours could help you, it would in fact act as an oven, and your skin in contact with metal would receive burns. The flames might even get in and you have fire within.
1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
2. again missed the point completely, i mean like wow seriously missed it. i don't even know that i have the patience to try to explain this to you.
also as far as enchants go, i don't know of any that increase armor......there are spell and element resistances....and block but that's more of a skill improvement.
HandofBane wrote: »1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
Armor was made and used because some people had lots of sharp pointy things that other people felt they were not fast enough to avoid being hit by. There were also many cultures who went armorless, or even in the nude in combat, in direct conflict with some of the best armored armies of their day (see: Celts vs Rome for just one example). You can't even really say that those underarmored forces got steamrolled by the armored forces, because the Emperor Hadrian had to build a big ass wall across a good portion of Britain just to keep those angry naked people from attacking their forts, because his armies could not wipe them out successfully.
That may be, but that sounds like a numbers game, and you can't argue how many of those naked warriors might have surived had they been wearing armor of some type. saying 1000 naked warriors can kill 10 armored isn't suprising, saying 10 naked warriors were steamrolled by 5 in armor wouldn't be suprising either.
HandofBane wrote: »also as far as enchants go, i don't know of any that increase armor......there are spell and element resistances....and block but that's more of a skill improvement.
Deteri essence rune is Armor - combine with a positive potency rune and aspect of your choice and you get an Increase Armor jewelry glyph.
Maverick827 wrote: »
External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."
You mean to tell me there's nobody in the real world that puts on skimpy dresses?
so you're implying there is a secret clan of bikini clad ninjas out there wading into combat wearing 3 cloth triangles and some string?
Have you been to the Amazon? Did you know some amazonian tribes are still cut off from the world? They fight naked, they hunt naked. After all these years, they're still, naked.
what are their mortality rates like? do they have massive battles over territory with large armies? do they siege keeps, use flaming oil and other nastiness on eadch other?
1. They are still alive. And population grows despite migration outwards and zero influx.
2. Does wearing skimpy clothes means you need to engage in massive battles and siege keeps with flaming oil and nastiness? If flaming oil is your concern, I highly doubt that armour of yours could help you, it would in fact act as an oven, and your skin in contact with metal would receive burns. The flames might even get in and you have fire within.
1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
2. again missed the point completely, i mean like wow seriously missed it. i don't even know that i have the patience to try to explain this to you.
1. Armor in ESO is mainly a stat. Armor in real life is to prevent heavy damage upon first clash with enemies, it is not as protective as what you might think it should be. The really reinforced ones are so heavy it could only be used on a horse. Ores are a scarcity in real life, do you really think all soldiers are fully plated? They'll be lucky if given a sword.
2. Did anybody mention that Skimpy Armor is supposed to provide an armour boost like the other armours? You assume it does. Can any player run away from battle before engaging? That's right, they can.
Will you survive flaming oil without heals? If you need heals to survive, so can players with Skimpy Armors use heals to survive.
Maverick827 wrote: »No, problem not solved. Read the damn thread, your argument is invalid.Adramelach wrote: »As for the "realism" argument, it's ridiculous.
Here's the non-lore-breaking, obvious solution:
We already can craft rings and necklaces that enhance armor. Clearly, the simple and clear reason skimpy armor protects the same as non-skimpy is *magic*. The skimpy armor simply comes with automatic, built-in armor enhancement that stacks with any "normal" enchantment you'd like to put on it.
Problem solved, realism argument finished.
I clearly overestimated your abilities of comprehension.Maverick827 wrote: »You read the one part of that page that doesn't apply to the topic. Read the others.
Are there specific lines that I'm supposed to read, and specific lines that I'm supposed to skip because you want me to? And I'm wrong if I do not follow your rules?
So the article you posted has valid and invalid points? So how trustworthy is that article if it contradicts itself?
HandofBane wrote: »also as far as enchants go, i don't know of any that increase armor......there are spell and element resistances....and block but that's more of a skill improvement.
Deteri essence rune is Armor - combine with a positive potency rune and aspect of your choice and you get an Increase Armor jewelry glyph.
I had forgotten about that one, that's cool, still not a substitute for a full set of armor, but i suppose that's something.
That may be, but that sounds like a numbers game, and you can't argue how many of those naked warriors might have surived had they been wearing armor of some type. saying 1000 naked warriors can kill 10 armored isn't suprising, saying 10 naked warriors were steamrolled by 5 in armor wouldn't be suprising either.
Conan just had a loincloth and steamrolled everyone single handed.
Well he did have a big sword and bigger muscles.
That may be, but that sounds like a numbers game, and you can't argue how many of those naked warriors might have surived had they been wearing armor of some type. saying 1000 naked warriors can kill 10 armored isn't suprising, saying 10 naked warriors were steamrolled by 5 in armor wouldn't be suprising either.
Conan just had a loincloth and steamrolled everyone single handed.
Well he did have a big sword and bigger muscles.
Conan doesn't live on nirn, and is an overstatement of prowess and fortitude because it makes for good movies :P
HandofBane wrote: »HandofBane wrote: »also as far as enchants go, i don't know of any that increase armor......there are spell and element resistances....and block but that's more of a skill improvement.
Deteri essence rune is Armor - combine with a positive potency rune and aspect of your choice and you get an Increase Armor jewelry glyph.
I had forgotten about that one, that's cool, still not a substitute for a full set of armor, but i suppose that's something.
Being fair, light armor in general hardly can be counted as armor for how little damage it mitigates. Is a bathrobe really going to stop a sword much better than, say, a halter top and tight pants (which exist ingame now! Argonian style low level medium armor)?
Maverick827 wrote: »
External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."
You mean to tell me there's nobody in the real world that puts on skimpy dresses?
so you're implying there is a secret clan of bikini clad ninjas out there wading into combat wearing 3 cloth triangles and some string?
Have you been to the Amazon? Did you know some amazonian tribes are still cut off from the world? They fight naked, they hunt naked. After all these years, they're still, naked.
what are their mortality rates like? do they have massive battles over territory with large armies? do they siege keeps, use flaming oil and other nastiness on eadch other?
1. They are still alive. And population grows despite migration outwards and zero influx.
2. Does wearing skimpy clothes means you need to engage in massive battles and siege keeps with flaming oil and nastiness? If flaming oil is your concern, I highly doubt that armour of yours could help you, it would in fact act as an oven, and your skin in contact with metal would receive burns. The flames might even get in and you have fire within.
1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
2. again missed the point completely, i mean like wow seriously missed it. i don't even know that i have the patience to try to explain this to you.
1. Armor in ESO is mainly a stat. Armor in real life is to prevent heavy damage upon first clash with enemies, it is not as protective as what you might think it should be. The really reinforced ones are so heavy it could only be used on a horse. Ores are a scarcity in real life, do you really think all soldiers are fully plated? They'll be lucky if given a sword.
2. Did anybody mention that Skimpy Armor is supposed to provide an armour boost like the other armours? You assume it does. Can any player run away from battle before engaging? That's right, they can.
Will you survive flaming oil without heals? If you need heals to survive, so can players with Skimpy Armors use heals to survive.
1. So you're implying that they didn't add armor to this world for the same function it has in the real world? I don't know when this discussion became about full plate mail, armor whether leather armor or plate is still armor. leather armor protects much better than naked skin.
2. If that's your point then why not put on a disguise with no armor and run around, since you're not asking for actual armor value.
No.
You want skimpy? Leave your cuirass slot empty. Get an enchanter to craft you an armor glyph for a ring to make up the armor difference.
I find a lack of cohesion in your comprehension.Eorea wrote:No
:P You just don't like that more of us voted no.
Maverick827 wrote: »I clearly overestimated your abilities of comprehension.Maverick827 wrote: »You read the one part of that page that doesn't apply to the topic. Read the others.
Are there specific lines that I'm supposed to read, and specific lines that I'm supposed to skip because you want me to? And I'm wrong if I do not follow your rules?
So the article you posted has valid and invalid points? So how trustworthy is that article if it contradicts itself?
Maverick827 wrote: »
External Consistency: Consistency with the real world.
The fictional universe is Like Reality Unless Noted. Violations of external consistency are "unrealistic."
You mean to tell me there's nobody in the real world that puts on skimpy dresses?
so you're implying there is a secret clan of bikini clad ninjas out there wading into combat wearing 3 cloth triangles and some string?
Have you been to the Amazon? Did you know some amazonian tribes are still cut off from the world? They fight naked, they hunt naked. After all these years, they're still, naked.
what are their mortality rates like? do they have massive battles over territory with large armies? do they siege keeps, use flaming oil and other nastiness on eadch other?
1. They are still alive. And population grows despite migration outwards and zero influx.
2. Does wearing skimpy clothes means you need to engage in massive battles and siege keeps with flaming oil and nastiness? If flaming oil is your concern, I highly doubt that armour of yours could help you, it would in fact act as an oven, and your skin in contact with metal would receive burns. The flames might even get in and you have fire within.
1. you realize armor was created for a reason, and it wasn't prudishness. Had they worn armor of some type there would be a lot more and their society would be much different.
2. again missed the point completely, i mean like wow seriously missed it. i don't even know that i have the patience to try to explain this to you.
1. Armor in ESO is mainly a stat. Armor in real life is to prevent heavy damage upon first clash with enemies, it is not as protective as what you might think it should be. The really reinforced ones are so heavy it could only be used on a horse. Ores are a scarcity in real life, do you really think all soldiers are fully plated? They'll be lucky if given a sword.
2. Did anybody mention that Skimpy Armor is supposed to provide an armour boost like the other armours? You assume it does. Can any player run away from battle before engaging? That's right, they can.
Will you survive flaming oil without heals? If you need heals to survive, so can players with Skimpy Armors use heals to survive.
1. So you're implying that they didn't add armor to this world for the same function it has in the real world? I don't know when this discussion became about full plate mail, armor whether leather armor or plate is still armor. leather armor protects much better than naked skin.
2. If that's your point then why not put on a disguise with no armor and run around, since you're not asking for actual armor value.
1. How are virtual items supposed to have the same function compared to actual world?? The armours are merely values, calculations, created by the developers with no link to reality. Reality is a much more complex RNG that nobody understands. Yes, you are right, no matter what armour it is, it's better than skin, so why can't someone wear Skimpy Armor when they go for some random ninja fight you proposed?
2. That, is exactly what I did after level 34. I got so fed up with changing armours and repairing, I reach VR1 with all armours broken since 34. I'm sure a lot of people do this as well.
*edit: from 10-50 I run naked in Cyrodiil. Stats are boosted.