Dear ZOS - veteran levels are killing ESO. Please wake up to this.

daneyulebub17_ESO

Could you imagine if this board was for EQ?

The levels are TOO HARD!! It takes months (months!) to reach max level cap---that's crazy--everyone wants to be end game within 3 weeks, tops!

Sony--you don't have a CLUE! Don't you see naked corpse runs are KILLING the game! Everyone's leaving!!!

And--losing XP with death???? Are you insane--Everquest is a game, it's not supposed to be difficult!

This game won't last a year!

Zero_Tolerance

Zaxq wrote: »

Show me the correlation between mindlessly killing 40 million XP worth of the same mobs+quests over and over and over and over and over and over with how skilful you are.

If you're a decent player at VR1 you will still be a decent player at VR12. The mobs don't do anything different and have never been difficult, the nature of the quests is exactly the same (and get progressively repetitive and boring).

If you like questing and all that jazz then you have that option. What everyone else is "crying" about is having any other option to level removed as soon as its discovered. For no other reason that to roadblock you and force you into linear, boring questing.

Personally I've already done the quests once on my main, and am levelling an alt. The thought of having to do all the same crap over again is soul-crushing.

On top of that - why do you even care? What difference does it make to you if someone hits V12 in a week questing or has the option to hit V12 grinding in a few days? 95% of those people you will likely never even see or play with and those people have absolutely zero impact on YOUR game experience.

Plus, if they're terrible then surely that's a bonus for you as you get to kill them in PvP since you're clearly elite and amazing.

Killing 2 V9 Storm Atronachs solo requires some skill (as doing all the vet content solo), spamming one button on your resto staff while farming a boss in Crag (or any other place) doesn't. And if you can't do it all solo, you're bad and it prolly takes forever to level up (that's what crying is about, as you seem not to get it). There are alternatives that requires no skill and little time, like Crag farm - that's what I recommend to whambulance crew here.

Having alts in any game means repeating the same content over and over. You didn't play anything else or your soul is already crushed to bits.

Actually, I think your reading comprehension fails a bit, so I won't waste more time answering your bs post 'cos that's risking another reply from you.

Oh BTW, on top of that - why do you even care if I care? LOL (actually I don't care at all, but we know how it is with your reading ;P)

Alurria

"Drops a box of cleanex in the middle of the room." Walks away not looking back.

Gisgo

Reenlister wrote: »

I am pretty sure people said it would be great to be able to see the other lands, so they, the creators almighty took a quick way on it.

Yes this is exactly what happened.

Thechemicals

800k xp an hour seems good to me. If they had any kind of xp like that in questing, i would do that, but its all about the grind.

zaria

Spryt wrote: »

I really feel like Vet ranks was a huge misstake. I don't mind the leveling taking time but vet levels have basically killed any will to make any alt. To be honest I am having a hard time to motivate leveling my only vet 3.

I like the story, quests and exporing each area but would have much rather have done it on 3 different alts. I hate the idea of having to do all three faction areas again should I ever want to try a different class.

I have no good ideas how to fix this. Only option for me would be;

Remove vet ranks. All areas open up at 50 but are optional. You get no XP but can still get skill points and money for doing quests or getting skyshards.

Make vet ranks into dungeon ranks. Works like PVP ranks. As you do dungeons/raids you gain rank and skill points. So you can still get skill points even if you choose not to do other factions. Could have daily dungon quests to help out.

This would hit the other way, making people who don't like dungeons much unhappy add that the veteran dungeons are hard for a group of VR1.

Else I agree, increase XP on doing dungeons multiple times.
More PvP XP, balance so smaller fights give more xp than today too.

This give multiple paths to level up.

Arreyanne

Basiclly VET Levels come down to this Staff/Staff or go home. If you add in your character is a Sorc or DK, you'll do it even faster

And that's how you do Vet areas quickly and run trials in 11 minutes or less

Epsilon_Echo

Ok lets try and think about the game-flow and where it went wrong here.

So you start off in the prison then are prompted down the path of main quests. Gaming business as usual. You complete the main quests and chosen side quests and make it to level 50. The main story is over but there are many of quests left, a few you skipped but mostly quests you havn't found yet. Even though the story is over, you can still level up, but at a MASSIVELY reduced rate. So much so that 1 level after 50 is a huge block of time. You can still level up skill lines as per usual though. Unfortunately quest rewards have not scaled so you're still hunting down loot that would have been useful 20 levels ago.

Ooops thats Skyrim.

What were we talking about?

Zaxq

Zero_Tolerance wrote: »

Zaxq wrote: »

Show me the correlation between mindlessly killing 40 million XP worth of the same mobs+quests over and over and over and over and over and over with how skilful you are.

If you're a decent player at VR1 you will still be a decent player at VR12. The mobs don't do anything different and have never been difficult, the nature of the quests is exactly the same (and get progressively repetitive and boring).

If you like questing and all that jazz then you have that option. What everyone else is "crying" about is having any other option to level removed as soon as its discovered. For no other reason that to roadblock you and force you into linear, boring questing.

Personally I've already done the quests once on my main, and am levelling an alt. The thought of having to do all the same crap over again is soul-crushing.

On top of that - why do you even care? What difference does it make to you if someone hits V12 in a week questing or has the option to hit V12 grinding in a few days? 95% of those people you will likely never even see or play with and those people have absolutely zero impact on YOUR game experience.

Plus, if they're terrible then surely that's a bonus for you as you get to kill them in PvP since you're clearly elite and amazing.

Killing 2 V9 Storm Atronachs solo requires some skill (as doing all the vet content solo), spamming one button on your resto staff while farming a boss in Crag (or any other place) doesn't. And if you can't do it all solo, you're bad and it prolly takes forever to level up (that's what crying is about, as you seem not to get it). There are alternatives that requires no skill and little time, like Crag farm - that's what I recommend to whambulance crew here.

Having alts in any game means repeating the same content over and over. You didn't play anything else or your soul is already crushed to bits.

Actually, I think your reading comprehension fails a bit, so I won't waste more time answering your bs post 'cos that's risking another reply from you.

Oh BTW, on top of that - why do you even care if I care? LOL (actually I don't care at all, but we know how it is with your reading ;P)

I literally have no clue what point you're trying to make. Apologies if it's because English isn't your first language - but probably the least clear post I've ever read.

Thanks for being a bit Captain Obvious about Alts - part of the point I was making was that there needs to be other options to level ratherthan close them down.

As to the rest of the what I could make out you were trying to say - I never mentioned having any issues with killing things. In fact I even said specifically that the game is NOT difficult at all.

Part of that point was that questing for a million hours to get from v1 - v12 doesn't make you a good player. Hence, if you're a good player by vet 1 you will still be that good player at vet 12. Putting in an arbitrary, boring and repetitive and very linear, one method asian-grindfest wont change that.

Ironic that you choose to flame my reading comprehension.

Zakua

I dunno, I like the rate of progression I am experiencing (V6 now). I no doubt had some moments where I was like "omg c'mon" but over all I really like the vet grind.

That's my feeling though and I know they could do things to the game to ...open it up a bit...but I'm not sure what, everyone's got a different liking or idea.

I however do not want a cake/walk easy street game...just maybe some other grind options lol.

Darkro

I soloed almost everything in veteran content, except the 4 man dungeons and some world bosses.
I even soloed ALL DOLMENS from VR 1 to 10.
This works 100% for NB,Sorc and DK as I have friends with specific builds that do this with relative ease...easiest obviously being DK.
No clue about templar as I only ever saw em as healers in dungeons or *** everyone with spear in pvp, but no clue about them in pve.

While I agree with OP that sometimes there is not a lot of incentive to level up, calling the game hard or slow to progress is an overstatement.

You can literally get from vr1 to 10 in around 25-30 hours played (and that's slacking), by just rushing trough the Points of interest (main quest, dolmens, world bosses, solo dungeons ).

My personal opinion is that people have been to indoctrinated with the WoW mentality, where you get showered in epics without much effort, where you basically get spoon feed every 10 minutes and where they even made 3-4 range of difficulty for every scrub out there to see end content and have something to whine about.

Remember this is an ES type of game, it's about the journey, not the destination, and so far the JOURNEY has been amazing compared to any other mmo out there, BY FAR. At least for some of us.

Dolfgren

Agreed - lost my patience 5 min ago and stop playing. Typical End-Boss scenario. No room to move / evade and op boss. After 6x death iam going to quit it. It's just no fun.

ruzlb16_ESO

We need more areas, basically.
I wouldn't mind Vet leveling if I had some options - but I don't. It's all pretty linear. I complete my side, then I get access to one other faction's areas and need to complete their entire storyline to get access to the other faction... This is painfully linear. I have ONE zone open to me which is aimed at my level at any given time. That's not a problem when you're gaining 4-5 levels in a zone, because you have a reward mechanism; once you're gaining a single Vet Rank per zone, it really starts to feel grindy.
I managed to cap all the crafting skills I needed back at Vet 1, so I basically ding a new VR, immediately go and craft myself a load of shiny new purples in the set bonuses I want, and have zero reward until the next VR (when I get to go and make the whole lot of items again, hooray). Facing 3-4 million xp to get the next level, with no real reward for doing any of it apart from the opportunity to go and make something I could make before... sucks.
I think that vet areas could work fine, but here's what I'd expect:

a) Double ALL vet xp rewards. All of them. Quests, kills, World Bosses, just all of them.
b) make all vet areas cover 2 vet levels - so Stonefalls becomes Vet 1-2, Shadowfen 5-6 etc.
c) Unlock both other factions at level 50. Not just one, both. That allows me to pick which faction I want to use to get to Vet 10 with. If I'm sick of EP, I can go over to DC for a bit and will find a zone which is identically tuned for my level, with a whole extra set of quests in a different setting. This gives me some choice, and allows me to skip zones I particularly dislike, rather than having to grind through 5-8 storyline quests in that area just to unlock the other faction.
d) Add some more Vet zones on top of this. Rather than another Craglorn adventure zone, throw in a big Vet 1-5 area. This gives yet another option for when I'm bored with both factions.
e) For God's sake, add more Vet group dungeons. We have 6 atm. This is pitiful considering that Vet levels account for TWICE the play time of levels 1-50, where we have 18. Vet dungeons are pretty awesome atm - they're like the best TBC dungeons were in terms of challenge. But there need to be more of them, so I can use those as a means to level too.
f) Feel free to make Cyrodiil PvE more interesting, too - even if it means having quests there which are only unlocked for Vets. I am a veteran warrior who has traveled to Hell and back, discussed affairs of state with Kings, defeated a daedric Prince and won my soul back from eternal damnation. I want to crush demonic hordes, battle dragons atop mountains, and annihilate the Gods themselves. I do not want to be asked to deliver a letter to Waynon Priory.

This will cut back on the feeling of grind through faster leveling, having more options on how I choose to level, and at least offer a change in scenery once in a while.

hk11

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Could you imagine if this board was for EQ?

The levels are TOO HARD!! It takes months (months!) to reach max level cap---that's crazy--everyone wants to be end game within 3 weeks, tops!

Sony--you don't have a CLUE! Don't you see naked corpse runs are KILLING the game! Everyone's leaving!!!

And--losing XP with death???? Are you insane--Everquest is a game, it's not supposed to be difficult!

This game won't last a year!

At the time, EQ didnt have a lot of competition. I know it stole my soul for a few years, but if it released today I probably wouldn't play it.

Zero_Tolerance

Zaxq wrote: »

I literally have no clue what point you're trying to make.
...blahblahblah....

Game's not hard, it doesn't take long to max lvl, average players with subpar builds can do it solo. Time to stop crying and go play Tetris if ESO seems impossible.

That's the point I'm making, you got it now?

The_Desert_Monk

+1

I can be patient while bugs are fixed and the game gets "balanced," but VR leveling is the one thing that might cause me to cancel.

There needs to be unique content designed just for VR 1 -10 that is not mindless grinding. It's just not fun to grind from VR 1 - 10 with the current system.

smokes

Darkro wrote: »

I soloed almost everything in veteran content, except the 4 man dungeons and some world bosses.
I even soloed ALL DOLMENS from VR 1 to 10.
This works 100% for NB,Sorc and DK as I have friends with specific builds that do this with relative ease...easiest obviously being DK.
No clue about templar as I only ever saw em as healers in dungeons or *** everyone with spear in pvp, but no clue about them in pve.

While I agree with OP that sometimes there is not a lot of incentive to level up, calling the game hard or slow to progress is an overstatement.

You can literally get from vr1 to 10 in around 25-30 hours played (and that's slacking), by just rushing trough the Points of interest (main quest, dolmens, world bosses, solo dungeons ).

My personal opinion is that people have been to indoctrinated with the WoW mentality, where you get showered in epics without much effort, where you basically get spoon feed every 10 minutes and where they even made 3-4 range of difficulty for every scrub out there to see end content and have something to whine about.

Remember this is an ES type of game, it's about the journey, not the destination, and so far the JOURNEY has been amazing compared to any other mmo out there, BY FAR. At least for some of us.

honestly, i come from 8 years of wow gameplay - one of the biggest reasons is because wow became far to easy and did literally hand out epics. i mean you can even buy level 90's now.

but that's besides the point.

i want to do the other faction content, but i want to enjoy the story and go through it at my own pace - not feel forced to skip all the story, stealth past as many mobs as possible and only hit up quest objectives.

i came to do adventure zones, i came to pvp - i didn't come to mindlessly grind for 25-30 hours of, what would otherwise be, optional "filler" content to keep me busy between new content patches.

i dont want to see ESO wow-ified, i came to ESO because it isn't WoW! the last thing i would ever want to do is turn it into wow.

but the VR grind from 1-10 is just unecessary, tacked on, filler content, turned into "veteran content" - because players in beta expressed an interest in being able to do the other faction storylines without needing to roll another character.

but now, everybody that does want to experience any max level adventure zone gameplay, either on their mains or on an alt, has to play through the entire 1-50 quest content 3 times, or grind like a mo-fo for 25-30 hours.

as i said on... page 7 (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/101675/dear-zos-veteran-levels-are-killing-eso-please-wake-up-to-this/p7)

VR content should be rolled back to VR2.
cadwells almanac should be optional content, not mandatory.
craglorn should be 50-VR2. (see the post for full details)

it might suck for V12's to be rolled back, but it's gonna suck way worse when ESO eventually goes F2P because the veteran content is bloated unnecessarily.

edit: also have to laugh how you say it's elders scrolls, it's about the journey, but you also admit to "rushing" all the vet content.

i loved 1-50 and i'm even rolling alts to enjoy it again and make different decisions, but i really came to ESO to see how the endgame works out - so far, it's not working out. not if i'm expected to "rush" VR1-10 to be on an even footing in pvp, or to find groups for craglorn without feeling like i am being carried.

aleister

One of these days, a company is going to do something really revolutionary and release an MMO with no levels at all and no perfunctory grind to get to the part of the game you really want. Want to PVP? Jump right in and be competitive. Want to raid? Queue up in the LFR tool. Want to quest? Quest for gold and other rewards. Want to just kill stuff? You've got a whole big wide world to explore and encounter things. The whole mechanic could be built around playing for achievement and reward, not just moving a bar. Some day this will happen.

netsike

Zos completely forgot, that the alliances are fighting against each other! Why did they design these areas like you are helping your enemy if you are a veteran? They had the chance to create some exciting storyline, where you are against them and arenas, where you could fight against players, groups or guild vs guild. But no, we got the same stupid quests instead.

kitsinni

It seems like the entire point of VR is that there is no end game content and to keep people feel like they are working towards something. It would be so much better just to roll alts and see that content as you are leveling and it would be faster to take three characters to 50 than one to V12. The whole thing about go to the enemy alliance and do quests to fend off your home alliance is a RP/Lore disaster. Once you get through the 40 million or so xp you need to get to V12 .. V15 is released with still nothing to do once you get there!!! Oh wait you can do one raid or the weekly that people have finished in 15 minutes!

onlinegamer1

VR Content is far too hard relative to 1-50, and fights are not fun at all, just grindy and costly (due to wear, and deaths).

Someone said its easier to take multiple alts to 50 than 1 character to VR12. I have a VR4 (made it that far before stopping), and now a VR1 and VR2 (thru PvP!) and a level 10 who will likely be VR1 in a week. I am confident that in the time to make those other VRs, my VR4 would have made it to VR6. Maybe 7.

darthbelanb14_ESO

muze_ESO wrote: »

I just quit for reals this time due to the VR gameplay. I enjoy a challenge but not dying every other minute. The rollbacks were exciting too - makes me question if Zenimax has a quality control team.

See you all in WildStar, i just did my preorder. Bye.

For reals? Really? Well, I see you back here, because Wildstar is an awful WoW clone with horrendous graphics.

Zaxq

Zero_Tolerance wrote: »

Zaxq wrote: »

I literally have no clue what point you're trying to make.
...blahblahblah....

Game's not hard, it doesn't take long to max lvl, average players with subpar builds can do it solo. Time to stop crying and go play Tetris if ESO seems impossible.

That's the point I'm making, you got it now?

Ive said specifically TWICE that THIS GAME ISNT HARD.

I did it solo to v10 as a bow NB.

Ive done it solo to v4 as a Templar as well.

I have never said its impossible.

In fact, all the crap you just posted refers to 100% of stuff THAT I HAVE NEVER [snip] SAID.

The game ISNT difficult.

SOLOING ISNT a problem.

THE. GAME. NEEDS. OTHER. LEVELLING. OPTIONS.

get that? OPTIONS. I.e. more than one way to do it.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity and Flaming]

dbennett707cub18_ESO

[/quote]
THE. GAME. NEEDS. OTHER. LEVELLING. OPTIONS.
[/quote]

100% this is the main problem with the game right now. 1 Leveling path bad.

babylon

It's the grind I find annoying, makes it almost feel depressing to log in, even though I generally have people to play with who are fun to be around and are also good players...it's the grind ZOS.

Nobody loves to grind, and watch their xp bar barely move after a play session.

Zaxq

Apologies to everyone else, I was nice to him the first 2 times.

Zero_Tolerance?

Zero_Braincells would be more appropriate.

smokes

babylon wrote: »

It's the grind I find annoying, makes it almost feel depressing to log in, even though I generally have people to play with who are fun to be around and are also good players...it's the grind ZOS.

Nobody loves to grind, and watch their xp bar barely move after a play session.

i could deal with the grind if it were in new content

not content that i could roll an alt to experience and have 10x more fun in the process.

Aoifesan

Altissimus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

They have already stated that the increase in VR difficulty was not intended and will likely be hot fixed within 24 hours.

This isn't about vet difficulty post-1.1.2. This is about the vet grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrind with no incentive or reason.

You're right of course there is NO incentive to explore the entire world to discover all the Skyshards and questing.

There is NO incentive to get better gear in veteran level group dungeons.

/sarcasm off

Lucifer108

Aoifesan wrote: »

Altissimus wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

They have already stated that the increase in VR difficulty was not intended and will likely be hot fixed within 24 hours.

This isn't about vet difficulty post-1.1.2. This is about the vet grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrind with no incentive or reason.

You're right of course there is NO incentive to explore the entire world to discover all the Skyshards and questing.

There is NO incentive to get better gear in veteran level group dungeons.

/sarcasm off

Veteran Dungeon gear is absolute crap unless are u are maybe a light armor user and not to mention Bind on Equip. if u are after the gear why not just buy them for 2k-3k each instead of run the dungeons?
I'll be honest here, Wildstar has better exploration than this game.

Amsel_McKay

aleister wrote: »

One of these days, a company is going to do something really revolutionary and release an MMO with no levels at all and no perfunctory grind to get to the part of the game you really want. Want to PVP? Jump right in and be competitive. Want to raid? Queue up in the LFR tool. Want to quest? Quest for gold and other rewards. Want to just kill stuff? You've got a whole big wide world to explore and encounter things. The whole mechanic could be built around playing for achievement and reward, not just moving a bar. Some day this will happen.

Minecraft...