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Re: Is it time for ZOS to give us an official statement of intentions regarding future vengeance plans?
StihlReign wrote: »What is the Cyrodiil Champions Test?
The Cyrodiil Champions Test (Vengeance Campaign) is focused directly on reducing Ability complexity in an effort to cut down on server stress when mass battles occur. Anything you see that's enabled or disabled during this test is purely for the sake of performance and getting calculations as low as possible on the server. SOURCE
Note: ZOS calls it the Vengeance Campaign in January, March and September. Source
Test 4 soon. This thread will be interesting...
The post below it is also pretty clear about what 'test' means.ZOS_Kevin wrote:what is on PTS today is not even close to a full feature.ZOS_Kevin wrote:As a reminder, this is a test and isn't a fully fleshed out feature.ZOS_Kevin wrote:Any changes to Cyrodiil that follow this test will require A LOT of work to get to a full featureZOS_Kevin wrote:While we understand that everyone is eager to know what comes next, please remember that this is just a test. It is not a full feature.ZOS_Kevin wrote:This is a test, not a full feature. We are aware of balance concerns
So just to be clear: it's a test as opposed to a full feature.
Your quote is from 7 months ago. We've had two different versions of vengeance since that post and the language and actions have changed since then.
Nothing about vengeance is a test. It's rolling out an alternative to or replacement for live Cyrodiil PvP.
Re: Is it time for ZOS to give us an official statement of intentions regarding future vengeance plans?
Joy_Division wrote: »TheAwesomeChimpanzee wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »JustLovely wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »They don;t know yet.
You actually think a AAA game producer like ZOS doesn't know what their plans are for a project they've sunk thousands of man hours and who knows how much money into is going to be? Let's try and be real here for a second, shall we?
Yes. And so do you.
There are about a dozen people who constantly flood these forums with complaints and rants about Vengeance. They'll upload screenshots trying to convince ZOS it's a dead server, they deride the players in vengeance as PvE casuals, they claim to speak for all PvPers, they'll claim it's a laggy mess, insist that it will be an empty server because the Vengeance audience is flighty and uninterested in PvP, etc., they have done all of this in the past 6 months in an attempt to demonstrate to ZOS that Vengeance is not worth supporting, so as to ensure that the current ESO campaigns are kept at the least, and ideally the resources allotted for Vengeance would instead go to making a performant GH.
You and others are doing this because there is a belief that ZOS can be convinced. Because ZOS future plans are not set in stone. That even if they have every intention of going with Vengeance, that their mind could be changed if either support for Vengeance declined among the ESO community or the performance was poor. In short, ZOS could alter tomorrow what they might have intended on doing today.
Or, ZOS isn't sure yet.
AAA studios, including ZOS, change their minds all the time due to unforeseen circumstances. Go west of Dragonsreach and you'll see Cloud Ruler Temple. That was going to be a PvE Trial that could only be accessed by an alliance who controlled certain objectives in Cyrodiil, in accordance to this AAA's original vision the PvP and PvE were to be interlinked. ZOS changed it. Just like the old idea of Imperial City having to be accessed via Cyrodiil. Changed. Just like ZOS's intentions to alter heavy/light attacks. Changed. Just like the old 4v4v4 BGs. Changed. All those old maps and assets just discarded. All of these things were, like Vengeance, projects and systems in which real development resources were allotted. Like an AAA studio, ZOS will adjust according to how mechanically feasible something like Vengeance is and, more importantly, how much their paying customers respond to it. Again, something the people who hate Vengeance know full well considering how forcefully they are venting their frustrations to ZOS.
If people paid attention to ZOS's last Livestream about Vengeance, it is obvious they're not sure how Vengeance will be implemented. They got a question specifically about whether or not the Vengeance model was going coming to Battlegrounds and Brain Wheeler specifically said that was under consideration, meaning *ZOS doesn't know yet*.
You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Triple-A companies, or really any serious company investing years of resources into a project, don’t just “wing it” with no clear direction or end goal. That’s simply not how large-scale development works.
So it’s one of two things. Either what you’re saying is true and ZOS really has been stumbling along aimlessly for years with no concrete plan for Vengeance, in which case they don’t deserve whatever respect or patience the PvP playerbase still has left. Or, more realistically, you’re just talking out of your depth, because anyone who’s worked on a serious project in a professional environment knows that milestones, deliverables, and end goals are decided well in advance.
Trying to paint ZOS as if they’re still figuring it out as they go, after all this time, all these tests, and all the resources poured in, is either admitting total incompetence on their part or showing you’ve never actually been involved in real project development.
ZOS isn't stumbling along and they aren't winging it. They have devoted resources and there is a developed plan to work on Vengeance. All of this is true and they said so much on Livestream.
What I said is that ZOS isn't sure how or when they are going to implement Vengeance. They haven't made up their minds on that. Brian said so on Livestream about Battlegrounds. That's not incompetence. That doesn't mean they aren't serious about vengeance or don';t have a development plan. That's acknowledging that after two tests they don;t have the data to provide a set in stone determination about vengeance's future implementation. They don;t have all the variables. That's why they are having these tests because even with all the development they aren't sure how things will play out on a Live server under stressful conditions.
Ok, so what's the problem with ZOS telling us what their plans are then?
They have. Here's the PTS patch notes talking about Vengeance.
This is the 3-month plan. It's right there. You can read it.
But if you're asking why they don't share their 6-month plan? Or their 12-month plan? Even if it's just a WIP and still subject to change?
Because players willingly misread every word that comes out of their mouths.
If ZOS told us all of their current long-term plans, there's many users in this thread that would treat those words as a promise. And if ZOS ever stumbles into an issue, adjusts their plans, tries something different, or implement changes based on feedback, these same users will treat it like them breaking promises.
They're saying it this is all a WIP, and the final plan hasn't been determined. You're acting as if the final plan has been determined.
In short, ZOS is not talking because you're not listening.
This thread has probably make it very clear to ZOS that the ESO community is not mature and reasonable enough to be told this sort of stuff in an open discussion. And that is damn shame because I want ZOS to communicate more. But a communication has go both ways.
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Re: Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR
StihlReign wrote: »I have mixed feelings about the video...
First off, vengeance is NOT "The WORST PvP Future of ESO". It is the vanilla version aka GH.
Not even remotely close. Vengeance is an entirely different system no one asked for, being designed and developed by the devs.
PTS Patch Notes v11.2.0
Vengeance
Loadouts are now in Vengeance. A Loadout is essentially a package...
Perks are now in Vengeance. Perks are passives to add...
A new Vengeance Inventory has been created...
Many systems have been turned back on including....
Your standard inventory is now available in Vengeance, however the same item restrictions...
The pvp community for the longest time have been begging the developers to provide new pvp content, and Vengeance is exactly that.. new content. It is an entirely different Cyrodiil map that its worth exploring. It has different set of rules in comparison to the regular GH campaign.
I actually enjoy Vengeance because I don't have to worry about getting bombed and getting zerged down by ball groups.
So you like veng because the devs refused to address pvp balance for 7+ years.. let it get way out of hand.. and then bascially took all skill away from cyro and made it a one size fits all everyone gets a prize style combat loop?
You realize this will continue to have a lower and lower pop to where you're lucky if you get one fight a night... right?
Vengeance actually fixes the PVP balance by removing sets and stack healing. There are no bombers and no ball groups during the Vengeance event. It's actually a refreshing not having to deal with either. Ball groups play a big role in lagging up the server by overloading the server. Ball groups know about this and still exploit the game just so that they can look good on their YouTube channel when they farm pugs and casual groups.
Also, not everyone has the time to test out sets and to theory craft a good PvP build.. so people are coming into Cryodill with sets that are completely garbage that they don't know... How can you have fun with that? So disabling sets gives other people the opportunity to have fun and to have a good PvP experience.
Then again lets have the same in pve. I want to participate trials too, but wont be taken by any serious trial guild unless i hit a 140k dps with certain sets.
Fix that
Nothing is stopping you from participating in trials. Get yourself an Arcanist and go to ESOlogs.com and find out what the current meta for gear/skills,etc. And yeah... if you wanna participate in speed runs or no death runs... yeah, these kinds of groups are gonna be looking for the best. Nothing is stopping you from using group finder to find a regular vet trial. I used to do it all the time, and that's how I got most of my trial skins from using the group finder.
Nothing is preventing you or anyone else from being successful in PvP either. Everyone already has the same resources to work with when it comes to both PvE and PvP. So we don't need vengeance because it's a solution in search of a problem, right?
Okay... so where do casual players who want to get their feet wet go to find good quality PvP builds? Can they go to ESOLOGS to find out what ball groups are using? Or perhaps find out what the solo players are using these days? Please do not link me to some YouTube channel. Content creators publish out crappy builds... trust me I know from personal experience.
Same place the PvE'rs go to find their builds. And a build is only as good as the person playing it.
Re: Hybridization
“not much of actual value was lost in hybridization”
“In other words, not much of actual value was lost in hybridization”
Ah yes nothing except for classes actually feeling and playing different. In case you forgot prior to hybridization Nightblade, sorcerer, dk, warden, templar(to a lesser degree), and even necromancer had two variants (mag/stam) that played very differently. And that was fun. That made it hard to get bored of the patch because if you got bored of something you go to another class.
Multiclassing might have been fun for the first two months because of the unbalanced burst/combo/damage you could create but ultimately it got boring real quick. I don’t want to play some abomination of assassination , animal companion, and restoring light.
For me personally, I will not return to this game unless they remove multiclassing AND hybridization so that classes actually feel unique again.
The causal player base for eso will survive because they don’t really care about any of this. The role play and casuals will be content with anything. But in my personal experience the end game PvP population is bleeding dry. And while I haven’t done any serious pve in a long time , I suspect that even the endgame pve population is experiencing a similar decline. After all, you can only not get bored of beaming everything for so long.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Just like with most of the game's classes that were conjured out of thin air and have no basis in any pre-ESO lore, I always viewed the Mag/Stam divide as very contrived and gamey for the sake of being gamey. They weren't good or valuable in or of themselves, they were simply familiar and comfortable for folk who were used to them. That has value but it isn't necessarily rooted in actual game design.
Like, when I first came to the game I literally rolled on the floor laughing at the cognitive dissonance of "StamSorc" - and, thus, had to choose it as my main class immediately. But the whole idea of a Stamina "Sorcerer" felt SO dumb and artificial. Even more so because you couldn't even use 95% of your "class" kit and so StamSorc got the unironic reputation of the "class without a class" or "weapon ability class" whose fortunes rose not with buffs to the actual class but rather to generic weapon ability lines. Which was, again, completely dumb.
In other words, not much of actual value was lost in hybridization - or at least nothing that simply having better game balance couldn't solve.
Seriously, whether it's PvP or PvE or overland questing or whatever - we, as players, deserve better and more responsive balance than what we have received for the last MANY years. If you look at patch notes for similar games compared to ours the difference is VAST. We get solutions to problems over the course of years where other games receive them over weeks. Like, there is no law of nature that demands that Light Armor be bad. It is only bad because it was balanced improperly and then hasn't been changed for literally years. That isn't hybridization being flawed it is simply neglect.
The systems themselves are not to blame but rather the positively glacial (and skimpy!) cadence of patches and balance updates gives us the worst of all possible worlds for insanely long stretches of time.
“In other words, not much of actual value was lost in hybridization”
Ah yes nothing except for classes actually feeling and playing different. In case you forgot prior to hybridization Nightblade, sorcerer, dk, warden, templar(to a lesser degree), and even necromancer had two variants (mag/stam) that played very differently. And that was fun. That made it hard to get bored of the patch because if you got bored of something you go to another class.
Multiclassing might have been fun for the first two months because of the unbalanced burst/combo/damage you could create but ultimately it got boring real quick. I don’t want to play some abomination of assassination , animal companion, and restoring light.
For me personally, I will not return to this game unless they remove multiclassing AND hybridization so that classes actually feel unique again.
The causal player base for eso will survive because they don’t really care about any of this. The role play and casuals will be content with anything. But in my personal experience the end game PvP population is bleeding dry. And while I haven’t done any serious pve in a long time , I suspect that even the endgame pve population is experiencing a similar decline. After all, you can only not get bored of beaming everything for so long.
Re: Hybridization
Yea this was super predictable and before subclassing even released I and many others knew what would happen. I made a post about it, but unfortunately all of the feedback was ignored. It’s funny to go back to look and see how people thought that subclassing would be any different than hybridization.
Stamicka
5
Re: We need a dwemer dlc
Revealing the fate of the Dwemmer defeats the point, IMO. The whole draw of the Dwemmer is the intrigue, the mystique. Not knowing enables theorisation, and discussion. All that goes away if they tell us.
Also, after this long, literally no answer will be satisfying. Some mysteries were never meant to be solved.
Also, after this long, literally no answer will be satisfying. Some mysteries were never meant to be solved.
DivineKitty
27
Re: Improving Random Dungeon Groups with a Player Rating System
No, don't need any Reddit like crap in the game.
Re: Discord Quests
@ZOS_Kevin
Discord has had quests for a while now where you can win rewards.
Is it possible that ESO may be adding itself to that quest list anytime soon?
Please, no. Don't do that! We already have enough of this "leave-the-game-to-play-the-game" nonsense, and it's enough! What about asking ZOS to keep players inside the game instead of outside of it?
Last'One
19
Re: Fatecarver vs. Several Spammables: A Glaring Issue
I get what you are saying. And I agree that most spammables are falling behind.
Yet if you look at the highest parses, you don't find Fatecarver. For single target fights there are better options than this skill.
The underlying issue is the design of the encounters. Vitually all encounters brought into the game in recent years have multiple targets, often tons of adds. This is the reason for the dominance of beam builds.
Yet if you look at the highest parses, you don't find Fatecarver. For single target fights there are better options than this skill.
The underlying issue is the design of the encounters. Vitually all encounters brought into the game in recent years have multiple targets, often tons of adds. This is the reason for the dominance of beam builds.
tomfant
5
Re: Stop using fatecarver as your subclass dps choice instead use this
All at a whopping range of 8m. Some time ago the animation was . . . changed and now rivals Fatecarver for fugly. The damage was also nerfed but even before the damage nerf, PvE jabplars were not top notch dps. Before the animation and damage changes it was a decent skill but I haven't slotted since those changes.
