Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

If sending an aspect of oneself is a way to get around the Coldharbour Compact, why hasn't Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon done that? Or Meridia?

I'm wondering how capable these manifestations of Sheogorath that we see in game even are. Maybe it's indeed just a projection with no real power (not much, or nothing at all)? I can't exactly remember the visuals of the quests in Southpoint and as Skooma Cat anymore. Do we actually see Sheogorath do anything more than revealing himself and talking? Does he utilize some dangerous power on screen? Otherwise all that happened could have as well been the work of a daedra worshipper who acted as Sheogorath's champion, while he was only there as an observer.

And if Sheogorath himself is really just a powerless manifestation there, basically barely more than a projection, that should be no breach of the Coldharbor Compact; as that agreement forbids the daedric princes to interfere directly in mortal life on Nirn. We know having a champion and letting that person do things in a daedric prince's name does not go against the agreement.

In any way, I hope the Compact is considered in the upcoming Sheogorath story. Maybe what we'll see of him will indeed just be a powerless manifestation and the trouble he causes will not be based on daedric power, but really on how he gets things wrong when interacting with mortals? We'll see.

I went through both the Southpoint quest and the Two Moons Temple quest today to refresh my memory about them.

In Southpoint it's pretty unambiguous that Sheogorath himself is there. At first he's possessing Dareneth, but when it comes time to confront Mayor Aulus, he pops out of her and is fully standing there. He does use his powers, too: he sends the player character and Daraneth to a prison cell in the catacombs beneath the chapel; Daraneth says she first encountered him in her laboratory and then he possessed her; Sheogorath changed the catacombs below the chapel to add prisons; he shows up a couple times while the player character escapes the catacombs, using his power to obstruct. There's never any mention of it being an aspect or form of him--the quest pretty clearly conveys that it is Sheogorath, on Nirn. The one part that isn't clear is how Mayor Aulus first encountered him and started the whole catastrophe in action.

In Two Moons Temple, however, Haduras is surprised that the Skooma Cat is able to be there--he says Jone and Jode must be out of alignment for the Skooma Cat to be able to cross the Lunar Lattice. He also says, "Normally, Sheggorath could only send his mad thoughts across through the perverted moon sugar." Skooma Cat does use his power to transport himself from place to place while on Nirn, and also to take Moon-Bishop Sizenza and the player character to Skooma Cat's Cloister--which is a portion of his realm. He does change from cat form to human at the end of the quest, though we are in his realm at that point, so likely there aren't really any limits on what he could do. It was Sizenza's use of the "sacred sugar" (skooma) to bring visions that brought him this time, but there's still no mention of Skooma Cat being an aspect. There's a dialogue point where the player character can ask why he showed up as the Skooma Cat, to which the answer will be: He is always the Skooma Cat. It conveys the idea that Skooma Cat is just another name for Sheggorath, which is just another name for Sheogorath.

However he finagled his way onto Nirn, and however much power he's directly using, he's definitely not there just as an observer. In Southpoint he brings the player character in with the idea that it will inspire Aulus to cause more chaos and insanity. In Two Moons, he's actively interfering with Moon-Bishop Sizenza throughout the quest. So it does seem to me he is breaking the Coldharbour Compact. I'm guessing the reason Sil didn't do anything about it was because he wasn't precisely himself while this was going on.