Best Of
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
I agree with the OP. I went to wrothgar and found the whole thing pretty revolting. I did take on some actual enemies but got bored of that and will consign this quest to the bin. Points not needed. If you want to say it’s just pixels in game well you’re just a collection of atoms, go figure.
Taarente
7
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Challenge Difficulty
I tested Vestige difficulty with a high damage Magicka Warden setup. High damage, some survivability but not a lot.
First test: Red Rook Camp in Glenumbra
First reaction: Is this actually on? I could still two-shot the enemies with my spammable. Tweaking the setting to adventurer and back a few times, I could see that yes, it was indeed doing something but the the overland enemies (at least, in a early game zone) still felt like tissue paper.
I then proceeded to walk over one of the traps that are on the ground in that area, and got one-shot for 40K. So apparently it affects those too. After several more trap deaths, I let myself get hit by an overland enemy and found it took away about 3/4 of my health.
Conclusion: In environments with packs of one or two enemies, I could still kill them before they ever became remotely a threat to me.
Second test: Hircine’s Haunt in Craglorn
For reasons I cannot explain, this delve is my favorite place in the entire game. Even on live, the enemies are bulky enough and come in larger enough groups that there’s some degree of basic challenge. I can definitely notice the difference between my well-built characters and my wearing-whatever-happens-to-be-in-my-inventory ones. So I wanted to give it a shot on Vestige.
This was a much more interesting experience than the Red Rook Camp. The packs of enemies were large enough that I couldn’t burst them all down before they could react, and they survived long enough that if I stood still they would swarm me. It still only took 2-3 hits to kill me, so if they reached me, I died. However, any given any still died if I focused on it for a moment, so backpedaling + bursting was very effective. I tried out a few more defensive abilities (damage shield, Major Resolve) and that gave me a bit more tankiness, but didn’t really change the feel much - even with those I would die after a few hits, and I could still burst everything down while backpedaling.
The two bosses in there (crocodile, werewolf) were fine. The werewolf killed me when I first pulled him without even looking at me - apparently I was hit by a 60K swipe as soon as he pulled without any sort of animation. Beyond that, it was fine because I had Isobel there to tank. She seemed to have zero issue with damage from them (I guess the setting doesn’t affect companion damage taken? It seemed that way at least) and could keep the bosses’ attention. I died to an add that spawned at the very end of the werewolf fight, at the same time the boss died.
Conclusion
With the current Vestige balance, individual enemies still feel like paper with a proper damage setup, but can also kill you equally fast. The difficulty therefore depends on how many enemies there are - low density areas will remain pretty trivial, but areas with high enemy density can pose a bit more challenge. The inherent mechanics of most overland content make this pretty easy to workaround - enemies can chase you a long ways before resetting, so kiting them is easy.
For my tastes, I think making enemies a bit tougher to kill but the player a bit less squishy would be more enjoyable (and yes, I’m aware I could accomplish that myself with gear choices). That would also make the experience better in lower density areas, since there’s less of a dependency on adds swarming you in order to be threatened.
First test: Red Rook Camp in Glenumbra
First reaction: Is this actually on? I could still two-shot the enemies with my spammable. Tweaking the setting to adventurer and back a few times, I could see that yes, it was indeed doing something but the the overland enemies (at least, in a early game zone) still felt like tissue paper.
I then proceeded to walk over one of the traps that are on the ground in that area, and got one-shot for 40K. So apparently it affects those too. After several more trap deaths, I let myself get hit by an overland enemy and found it took away about 3/4 of my health.
Conclusion: In environments with packs of one or two enemies, I could still kill them before they ever became remotely a threat to me.
Second test: Hircine’s Haunt in Craglorn
For reasons I cannot explain, this delve is my favorite place in the entire game. Even on live, the enemies are bulky enough and come in larger enough groups that there’s some degree of basic challenge. I can definitely notice the difference between my well-built characters and my wearing-whatever-happens-to-be-in-my-inventory ones. So I wanted to give it a shot on Vestige.
This was a much more interesting experience than the Red Rook Camp. The packs of enemies were large enough that I couldn’t burst them all down before they could react, and they survived long enough that if I stood still they would swarm me. It still only took 2-3 hits to kill me, so if they reached me, I died. However, any given any still died if I focused on it for a moment, so backpedaling + bursting was very effective. I tried out a few more defensive abilities (damage shield, Major Resolve) and that gave me a bit more tankiness, but didn’t really change the feel much - even with those I would die after a few hits, and I could still burst everything down while backpedaling.
The two bosses in there (crocodile, werewolf) were fine. The werewolf killed me when I first pulled him without even looking at me - apparently I was hit by a 60K swipe as soon as he pulled without any sort of animation. Beyond that, it was fine because I had Isobel there to tank. She seemed to have zero issue with damage from them (I guess the setting doesn’t affect companion damage taken? It seemed that way at least) and could keep the bosses’ attention. I died to an add that spawned at the very end of the werewolf fight, at the same time the boss died.
Conclusion
With the current Vestige balance, individual enemies still feel like paper with a proper damage setup, but can also kill you equally fast. The difficulty therefore depends on how many enemies there are - low density areas will remain pretty trivial, but areas with high enemy density can pose a bit more challenge. The inherent mechanics of most overland content make this pretty easy to workaround - enemies can chase you a long ways before resetting, so kiting them is easy.
For my tastes, I think making enemies a bit tougher to kill but the player a bit less squishy would be more enjoyable (and yes, I’m aware I could accomplish that myself with gear choices). That would also make the experience better in lower density areas, since there’s less of a dependency on adds swarming you in order to be threatened.
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
It was an unpleasant view to see this hoarker massacre in Wrotghar. Then I saw people running in circles killing birds and rabbits, that is just sad..
Also you do realize that all topics on this forums are basicaly "people who get emotional about pixels" ?
And the argument "this is just a video game" could be used as a response to every single one of those topics?
For some reason caring about pixel animals is lame, but all those other things are very important (like how much fur does the new werewolf have, are the shining mounts to flashy, are the spikes in new spike armor long enought, and so on, you name it.
)
Also you do realize that all topics on this forums are basicaly "people who get emotional about pixels" ?
And the argument "this is just a video game" could be used as a response to every single one of those topics?
For some reason caring about pixel animals is lame, but all those other things are very important (like how much fur does the new werewolf have, are the shining mounts to flashy, are the spikes in new spike armor long enought, and so on, you name it.
)
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
Cin_Vhetin wrote: »Rishikesa108 wrote: »
What are you talking about, no logic? There IS logic, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Whether it's people or animals, it's still A GAME. Neither real people nor real animals are being harmed in any way.
Aren't dogs and cats pixels too?
Why can't these animals be killed if reality has nothing to do with it, if it's just a game, if they're all just pixels?
Why are obscene acts like teabagging strictly and rightly prohibited if they're just pixels doing things to other pixels?
It's true, we're in a video game, but in reality, there are people behind the keyboards, with feelings.
The pixels are realistic, and we're playing in an immersive environment.
I don't find anything strange in feeling disgusted at killing innocent creatures who can't even defend themselves.
I find it weirder when someone does it without even a flinch.
The difference between pixels is whether or not there is a real person using those pixels as a depiction/avatar of themselves, then it becomes player vs player which is why there are all kinds of rules regarding interactions within that context. Pixels that are not avatars of real people do not have the same rules, nor should they or we would not have a game at all. Imagine the protests for the trampled rights of lich, imps, or Molag Bal, real life protesters all lined up outside Zenimax HQ.
So, immersing yourself in the avatar is correct, but immersing yourself in the surrounding environment is not?
BretonMage wrote: »No argument there. I happen to dislike the tendency to armchair psychoanalyse strangers so common on social media these days, so that's not what I'm doing here. People can have different reasons for doing or enjoying the things they do.
Some of us enjoy being somewhat immersed in our fantasy world, though of course this being an MMO, we share the space with those who just see targets to aim at. Which is expected. However I don't really need to be lectured that these are just pixels by the latter group. I mean, obviously I know that, but I pay to experience a fantasy world, so I'd like to be able to enjoy it in one of the intended ways and without judgement or condescension.
You get the point.
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
What are you talking about, no logic? There IS logic, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Whether it's people or animals, it's still A GAME. Neither real people nor real animals are being harmed in any way.
Aren't dogs and cats pixels too?
Why can't these animals be killed if reality has nothing to do with it, if it's just a game, if they're all just pixels?
Why are obscene acts like teabagging strictly and rightly prohibited if they're just pixels doing things to other pixels?
It's true, we're in a video game, but in reality, there are people behind the keyboards, with feelings.
The pixels are realistic, and we're playing in an immersive environment.
I don't find anything strange in feeling disgusted at killing innocent creatures who can't even defend themselves.
I find it weirder when someone does it without even a flinch.
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
That whole "people with functioning empathy" line is a hell of a statement, because it implies people who kill non-living things in a game somehow lack it. I'm one of the most empathatic people I know, I cry super easily when others are upset or during sad scenes in games or movies. I abhor real-world violence and it gets me REALLY mad when I hear about things like animals or people being abused or killed. But there is a big difference between getting emotionally attached to characters and getting emotionally attached to Random NPC Animal #5,301.BretonMage wrote: »I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.
If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?
Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.
I'm not going to dictate how you play your game, and honestly, if I want to feel emotions like pity or compassion for those in a fictional fantasy universe created to seem life-like, then I think I have that freedom to do so. That's one of the great things about games, you have a choice to relate to it in the way you want. So just as you can choose to treat these animals as mere pixels, so too can I choose to see Tamriel as a living, breathing world.
Race feedback
Hello,
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to see something changed as we move towards making the game more balanced,
I feel a few races need changing.
Starting with Woof Elf
Wood Elf has constantly been forgotten as the useless race because it brings no benefit to pvp or pve. I think they should have their pen increased. because their pen is very lack=luster to the pen a set such a Twice-Fanged Serpent gives. it's wrong and leaves for a unhealthy gameplay loop. maybe with the changes done with scribing, we could see changes such as reduce cost of vault, something to bring the reasoning for picking a Wood Elf, rather than everyone just picking Dark Elf, Khajiit or Breton. I myself am a Wood Elf enjoyer and I would like to see more value into picking this race rather than speed and penetration. the penetration is very low and not worth even picking the race because of how its easier to get penetration through sets. Maybe increase it to 1500 again or even 3000. if Khajiit can get 14% critical damage and healing, there needs to be an incentive to pick Wood Elf over other races. If you want you can increase their movement speed too to 7% instead of 5%. But that might be pushing it
Redguard
This one is tricky as it was meta for quite a long time before races 2.0
But what I would honestly do is make them do more damage with weapon skills. perhaps by 10%. increase their resource restore by a tiny margin such as about 2000 stamina, this will ensure theres more value in picking the race rather than just a joke because of how bad it is combat wise.
High Elf
High Elf has always been nice, however I think maybe their weapon damage modifier needs to be moved from weapon damage, to percentage based damage. so there's more incentive to play the class. maybe a increase to their resource restore since it isn't the greatest
Dark Elf
Dark Elves specialize in fire, I think they should have increased fire damage.
Khajiit
Khajiits specialize in striking fast and leaving so maybe movement speed while still keeping their crit damage modifer and crit healing modifier
Breton
Breton has very high magic resilience, good recov, and reduced cost, maybe having them do increased damage with magic abilities might not be a bad idea.
Nord
Nord is kinda iffy, I wouldn't change too much on them, maybe increase their ultimate generation.
Imperial
For being a paid for race, its not very useful, good for sustain but thats about it. no real reason to get it. I think if you want to incentivize people to spend money to get imperial you need something that will help with that, maybe increased resource reduction or a damage reduction modifier..
Orc
Orc is fine however i'd give them more stamina.
Argonian
Argonian is hard to balance because if you do it wrong it will become overpowered again, I feel maybe instead of restoring more resources you could reduce their potion cooldown by 8 seconds
THESE ARE JUST IDEAS AND CAN BE CHANGED! Please drop what you find good and bad in the comments below
~VixenHunny
I'm new to this forum but i'd like to see something changed as we move towards making the game more balanced,
I feel a few races need changing.
Starting with Woof Elf
Wood Elf has constantly been forgotten as the useless race because it brings no benefit to pvp or pve. I think they should have their pen increased. because their pen is very lack=luster to the pen a set such a Twice-Fanged Serpent gives. it's wrong and leaves for a unhealthy gameplay loop. maybe with the changes done with scribing, we could see changes such as reduce cost of vault, something to bring the reasoning for picking a Wood Elf, rather than everyone just picking Dark Elf, Khajiit or Breton. I myself am a Wood Elf enjoyer and I would like to see more value into picking this race rather than speed and penetration. the penetration is very low and not worth even picking the race because of how its easier to get penetration through sets. Maybe increase it to 1500 again or even 3000. if Khajiit can get 14% critical damage and healing, there needs to be an incentive to pick Wood Elf over other races. If you want you can increase their movement speed too to 7% instead of 5%. But that might be pushing it
Redguard
This one is tricky as it was meta for quite a long time before races 2.0
But what I would honestly do is make them do more damage with weapon skills. perhaps by 10%. increase their resource restore by a tiny margin such as about 2000 stamina, this will ensure theres more value in picking the race rather than just a joke because of how bad it is combat wise.
High Elf
High Elf has always been nice, however I think maybe their weapon damage modifier needs to be moved from weapon damage, to percentage based damage. so there's more incentive to play the class. maybe a increase to their resource restore since it isn't the greatest
Dark Elf
Dark Elves specialize in fire, I think they should have increased fire damage.
Khajiit
Khajiits specialize in striking fast and leaving so maybe movement speed while still keeping their crit damage modifer and crit healing modifier
Breton
Breton has very high magic resilience, good recov, and reduced cost, maybe having them do increased damage with magic abilities might not be a bad idea.
Nord
Nord is kinda iffy, I wouldn't change too much on them, maybe increase their ultimate generation.
Imperial
For being a paid for race, its not very useful, good for sustain but thats about it. no real reason to get it. I think if you want to incentivize people to spend money to get imperial you need something that will help with that, maybe increased resource reduction or a damage reduction modifier..
Orc
Orc is fine however i'd give them more stamina.
Argonian
Argonian is hard to balance because if you do it wrong it will become overpowered again, I feel maybe instead of restoring more resources you could reduce their potion cooldown by 8 seconds
THESE ARE JUST IDEAS AND CAN BE CHANGED! Please drop what you find good and bad in the comments below
~VixenHunny
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
I haven't witnessed this yet but it would bother me too.
I even avoid fighting "normal" animals when possible (wolves, bears, big cats).
I even avoid fighting "normal" animals when possible (wolves, bears, big cats).
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
I'm going to assume this is a joke post/satire or something, but in case it isn't...I hate to say this, but it's a game. If you don't want to kill animals you don't have to, but let's not try to impose real-world morals on a video game or claim that 'killing' pixels on a screen is 'slaughter'. Also you already seem to know that mobs in Delves/Dungeons not counting is a bug, so the whole "is this fair" thing is kind of a moot point anyway.
If we feel our sensibilities stung by senseless slaughter, it's because it's natural for people with functioning empathy to feel for the suffering of others, and often even when we know the others aren't real. I mean, if games are "just games", what's the point of feeling moved by the characters of Baldur's Gate or Expedition 33? Or, for that matter, Romeo and Juliet?
Not saying I'd actually condemn the players who kill innocents in the game, but it's not pleasant to see either.
BretonMage
14
Re: Time Spent Playing Has Increased Dramatically
I just don't want to lose 20,000 tome points because I opened all mine as there was an option in the UI to open them all with no warning that I would lose them at the end of the season. Would have been nice to know that or some warning. That's after buying what I want already.
I never imagined a scenario something I paid for via 12 month sub would disappear at the end of the season. I could see that for stuff I slowly accumulated during the season via gameplay. Not via my purchase.
I haven't even had a chance to play the game normally yet due to work but who knows how many more points I will accrue that will utterly be meaningless.
So hard to want to play more at this point.
I never imagined a scenario something I paid for via 12 month sub would disappear at the end of the season. I could see that for stuff I slowly accumulated during the season via gameplay. Not via my purchase.
I haven't even had a chance to play the game normally yet due to work but who knows how many more points I will accrue that will utterly be meaningless.
So hard to want to play more at this point.
