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Re: 3 bars of afk & questers in cyrodiil, nice pvp event
ShadowPaladin wrote: »Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.
Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.
Koshka is right.
During this event I am a bit more active in PvP and I am seeing it - as always in PvP.
2-3 players nuking 12, 18 or even 24 players over and over again. Those other players trying - even in organized groups - to kill those 2-3 players without success. With such a power gap there is absolutely no fun what so ever for casuals to join PvP. Its more like the fun is 1000% taken out of it!
The same thing with those small ball-groups rushing through keep fights and killing everything in their way, but not being killed even if outnumbered 1 to 5 and spammed with dozen of sieg weapons.
Or those 2-4 players playing the *Resource-Tower-Troll-Game*. Same thing.
As long as there are those huge gaps and no way to compensate them, there won't be many new PvP'ers.
Well, I just want to say something about that.
It's perfectly normal for a veteran PVP player to literally destroy a group of casual players who have absolutely no experience with PvP. Even though huge efforts have been made by the ZOS combat staff; it's still normal for there to be a level gap.
And that's something pretty healthy for an online game, because it can make you want to progress if you consider that it's just experience (and not cheating)
This all is why those kind of people are soooooooo afraid of Vengeance becoming an optional thing and are actively campaigning to avoid it from happening in some form.
Because all the easy meat and people looking for a more balanced environment would move over and those other unkillable one shot people have to fight each other because all other players would have either gone to Vengeance or back to PvE.
Re: DPS makeup of vKA HM runs on ESOlogs, Updates 43-46
The thing to understand about Arc is that it's a little more than a class because of Fatecarver.
Fatecarver isn't only an ability, it is a distinct play style. IMO, it was engineered to be such, positioned between heavy attack and light attack weaving play styles.
This play style is not going anywhere. It's too popular. And I don't think it's necessary in the era of subclassing.
I'm OK with a DD bias towards Arc. Why? Because the play style is cemented, the only alternative would appear to give every class a homogenized Fatecarver-like play style which I would hate because it would mean sacrificing other parts of the game.
And the thing is, Arc isn't necessary for DDs. There are other strong builds out there. I've seen strong non-Arc builds with Jabs and Surprise attack as the spammable, for example.
Here's a video of an off-meta build that immediately comes to mind:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDa78_EM0E
Just because MOST players follow the meta doesn't mean they have to. And there ALWAYS be a meta that favors certain classes and abilities. Let's not push ZOS down the path of homogenization again. Diversity is fun for those who enjoy it.
I'm familiar with that build, I based my parse DK's build off of it, and I bring him to as many trials as I can. I don't play on-meta unless requested by my raid lead. The problem is not that there *is* a meta, but that the meta is far superior to other builds in most practical use cases. I do NOT want every class to have fatecarver or some other AOE channeled beam, I want other classes to have access to similarly strong AOE cleave (which *is* possible without a fatecarver-like playstyle). I do NOT care that there is a meta, I care that off-meta builds are so much less viable. I like my arcanist dps, but every dps being forced into either using a beam-based playstyle or taking a HUGE hit to efficacy in most situations is unacceptable to me. If you think making non-fatecarver builds more viable will result in more homogenization, I think we must have very different definitions of that word.
M1SHAAN
11
Re: DPS makeup of vKA HM runs on ESOlogs, Updates 43-46
You would think spammables used up close would provide damage shields/healing and be stronger than ranged attacks but obviously this is not the case.
And I would hate that if it were the case. Let's not give the entire game training wheels.
Fatecarver is more than the cleave and the damage shield, although those are parts of the same theme I am highlighting. It is about ease of play. It is a simple rotation that is survivable and doesn't require an action every second. It was clearly engineered to be exactly that. It's basically designed to be more engaging than holding lmb.
Furthermore, it has to be competitive with traditional spammables in terms of damage or else ZOS would be back to square one. They've obvious intentionally made other play styles competitive with LA weaving while keeping weaving at the top of the pack.
My biggest nightmare in terms of combat design is all skill being removed from ESO by a fatecarverization of the entire game. Let's not go down that path. We have a decent compromise now. Those who don't want to play it don't have to. If your RL makes you play it, find a different RL or become one yourself.
And it wouldn't change anything in terms of class distribution if they did because a meta would still emerge.
Honestly, what the charts show more than anything else is how accessible vKA HM has become as the game gets easier each update -- especially u46. It's not like pragmatic fatecarver is new. vKA, in general, is a total joke now. Just like the Crags trials.
Ease of play yes while also being the best spammable in the game by miles which is now available to everyone instead of just the Arcanist class.
You also posted a 170K parse when im talking about real content In real content your not going to stand behind a boss for the entire fight (some enemies you cant get close to), have full health the whole time and not have to move, so majority of parse builds are useless and don't show any real situation. There is no situation in the game fatecarver cannot be used while all other spammables have situations they cant be used.
In real content there is absolutely no upside to using any other spammable besides fatecarver. Why use jabs when fatecarver does more damage, keeps me alive and can be used at range ? Why is surprise attack when fatecarver does more damage to multiple targets, can be used from range and keep me alive ? Why use the skull spammable from necro when you have to aim your cursor at a target, doesnt provide any survivability and does less damage lol ? Oh also keep in mind all those spammables are more difficult to sustain than fatecarver.
nb_rich
4
Re: Playing Battlegrounds is not a fun experience.
It's because the MMR is based on Medal Score, which is a nonsensical system.
You can have players at the top of their game, single handedly spawn camping the enemy team the whole match (winning the match for their team) and they get jumped on the leaderboard + in MMR by the enemy they just mollywhopped because somehow the enemy team had more medal score despite losing the game.
This isn't hyperbole - it happens:
The team that won this match got less MMR increase and went up the leaderboard less than the team they not only beat via the objective, but utterly dominated in terms of kills
Medal Score is a terrible system, and leads to awful matches because players are given arbitrary increases/decreases to their MMR.
Additionally, the MMR resets constantly, and is further brought down by being character based and not account based.
You can have players at the top of their game, single handedly spawn camping the enemy team the whole match (winning the match for their team) and they get jumped on the leaderboard + in MMR by the enemy they just mollywhopped because somehow the enemy team had more medal score despite losing the game.
This isn't hyperbole - it happens:
The team that won this match got less MMR increase and went up the leaderboard less than the team they not only beat via the objective, but utterly dominated in terms of kills
Medal Score is a terrible system, and leads to awful matches because players are given arbitrary increases/decreases to their MMR.
Additionally, the MMR resets constantly, and is further brought down by being character based and not account based.
DPS makeup of vKA HM runs on ESOlogs, Updates 43-46
I picked Kyne's Aegis because I think (perhaps erroneously) that it is more single-target-dps-friendly than some of the newer trials, and therefore is less likely to skew towards arcanists. The numbers speak for themselves, though. It will be interesting to see if the nerf to Arc Banner changes anything in Update 47. All data from https://esologs.com/zone/statistics/14
M1SHAAN
12
Re: Fatecarver makes PvE DPS so boring now with subclassing
Ahh ESO forums... Someone points out a big problem with the game and the comments tell you to just ignore the problem entirely as if that would solve it.
Azureblight was absolutely a band-aid solution for other classes to keep up with the beam and it was stupid that we had to rely entirely on one set to do decent AoE damage, but now we don't even have that band-aid. Before the nerf the set was doing around 50k dps, now ZoS has to figure out a way to give that 50k back to non beaming builds just for them to even have a chance at competing with the beam.
The problem with buffing other classes is that arcanist has access to those same exact skills, so if they buff long AoE dots from other classes, arcanist with a beam could use those exact same skills and we would be in this same position once again. The only real solution, is to buff AoE semi spammables, such as blastbones and burning talons, because you can't really use those skills effectively while beaming. But these buffs would have to be absolutely massive, and knowing ZoS that's not going to happen because it doesn't align with the spreadsheets.
Pictures in the spoiler of one example to show how bad the situation is
Azureblight was absolutely a band-aid solution for other classes to keep up with the beam and it was stupid that we had to rely entirely on one set to do decent AoE damage, but now we don't even have that band-aid. Before the nerf the set was doing around 50k dps, now ZoS has to figure out a way to give that 50k back to non beaming builds just for them to even have a chance at competing with the beam.
The problem with buffing other classes is that arcanist has access to those same exact skills, so if they buff long AoE dots from other classes, arcanist with a beam could use those exact same skills and we would be in this same position once again. The only real solution, is to buff AoE semi spammables, such as blastbones and burning talons, because you can't really use those skills effectively while beaming. But these buffs would have to be absolutely massive, and knowing ZoS that's not going to happen because it doesn't align with the spreadsheets.
Pictures in the spoiler of one example to show how bad the situation is
Top level Reef Guardian HM clear in U45
Top level Reef Guardian HM clear in U46
Last patch there was some actual class diversity, sure arcanist was still the best option for vast majority of players, but if you knew what you were doing, you could hold your weight on other classes as well. Now, it's just not the case. We have taken like 10 steps back right back to the meta we had after the release of arcanist. I just really hope it doesn't take them 2 years to fix this mess only to screw it up again.Top level Reef Guardian HM clear in U46
BananaBender
11
Re: Magsorc solo survivability in bigger fights destroyed
SkaraMinoc wrote: »If you want a pure Mag Sorc build with no subclassing, then try Metallic Monk's build from 2023 when they won the 1v1 duel tournament.
They used Spinner's front bar, Wretched Vitality back bar, Chudan, DDF and used Hardened Ward (no heal on shield), Critical Surge, and Resolving Vigor to stay alive. Maybe try that and update it with Scribing?
Here's a screenshot from Fe7on's stream of the build.
I'm sure it shouldn't come as a surpirse that 2023 build is quite outdated in 2025. ALthough in case of magsorc it would actually work in u45 as the spec barely changed through the years, although this build would still be suboptimal.
But the main problem is that sorc is difficult to subclass (if you don't only leave storm calling and basically turn it into a warden) and magsorc can't be subclassed at all because it's whole Identity is spread across all 3 skill lines. You can't imagne magsorc without bolt escape, conjured ward, dark exchange/crystal shards, can you? That isn't magsorc anymore, not to mention that without shields stacking max resources is pointless.
Re: DPS makeup of vKA HM runs on ESOlogs, Updates 43-46
I looked at something similar for vSS HM for a similar reason. When I starting looking at the DDs that were not Arc, most were subbed into arc and were using fatecarver.
Re: Extremely Low Midyear Mayhem Turnout, Why?
I'm curious to hear why so many players avoided this most recent Midyear Mayhem event. Each event the turnout gets lower, but this time it's shockingly low. The added campaigns were not needed at all. Personally speaking, I only played a little for the first 2 days and lost interest after that. I have a long list of reasons, but it would probably be useful for ZOS to see other perspectives.
Feel free to share your reasons.
Consistent bombings. You can't take 5 to 10 steps outside without getting dragged and insta-killed along with 2 or 3 other people.
I love PvP and I love Vengeance. Didn't have time for it last time, but glad I made time. But this here is just foolishness. Its silly, its one thing by itself but people are taking the bombings to ridiculous lengths, meta subclasses everywhere, obscene amounts of damage being dished out with no counter-play, so on so forth.
It's a hot mess and I don't have the time or inclination anymore to sort out a bunch of people more or less reacting and griefing one another. That is not PvP, and I just can only imagine what fresh hell the new folks and casuals much be dealing with. I saw a bunch of PvE folks doing quests and so forth the other day, didn't bother them.
No reason to when you can't even PvP without getting constantly instant-killed. It's real sad but not my fault.
Yeah... I'm getting this vibe too after playing for a few days in a row. The bombings, the subclassing meta.. it's just... to be blunt it sucks and it needs a massive change in cyro. And sooner not later.
LadyGP
4
Re: 3 bars of afk & questers in cyrodiil, nice pvp event
Its telling how bad pvp is in this game when you have 3 bars and players are actively trying to avoid pvp in a zone where pvp happens during a PVP focused event. Sad that PVP is in such a bad state that players don't want to interact with it.
Yeah...
Well, to be fair, the power gap between casuals and sweats is extremely high now. Regular players have no chance of hurting organized groups, even if they outnumber their opponents.
It also doesn't help that organized groups do not seem to fight each other anymore? Idk, I don't really pvp outside of the events anymore, but whenever I saw ball groups of different alliances, they just farmed casuals without attacking each other.
All of that creates an atmosphere that unfortunately makes pvp unappealing not just to casuals, but to most players. You can't really get into pvp anymore, unless your friends are pvpers and are willing to teach you.
This is really sad, I think that ESO had a lot of potential as a pvp mmo.
Koshka
5