I don't think it's fair to be saying that sorcerer is now "one of the best classes" if it is excelling only at single target damage in non-gameplay parses and in PvP. This does not cover a wide range of other gameplay such as tanks and healers, other support roles in trials/dungeons, solo play in vet arenas and IA, etc.

I don't have access to the PTS and so I cannot gauge these other applications of the class myself.

coop500 wrote: »

I wanted to make one final post about this, though I'm not surprised by the reception as a lot of people seem to wish to delete femininity these days, which as a woman is a little discomforting but, anyway. Not the main point.

When I say bumps, I don't mean full on head-sized breasts with visible... you knows. I was truly just meaning small bumps. To toot my own horn a little, this is the female model of a werewolf replacer I helped make and refine for Skyrim, in which I did the adjustments myself, including the chest.



This isn't sexualized or gross or suggestive nudity. It's just respecting and reflecting that this is a female werewolf, and showing off a human aspect of what that looks like. I did other small adjustments too but I won't go into that here.

Okay as a female in RL who has some quite "busty" ladies in ESO, this is not about attacking femininity it's about how some of us expect a cross between a human and wolf to actually look.

I'm happy when there isn't always an emphasis on making a female character meet the stereotypical "female beauty" body shape that is often used. If you look at women who are fit and strong in RL like athletes, you'll see many who don't have a large cleavage. But they're still feminine, because a woman who is strong isn't less feminine because of her cup size. This alone supports the smaller chest size on a WW because they are clearly intended to be muscular and strong and the smaller chest is actually appropriate.

In RL I have a husky who looks incredibly like a wolf, so I'm really keen on the WW aesthetic. But while you might want a human x wolf to have breasts more like a human, it's equally valid to say this is only half human and therefore the expectation is that the chest area is much more subtle. Dogs, even when feeding pups don't show anything like what female humans do in the chest area. After weaning they practically disappear So in your image I just see something that looks really out of place giving this is a dog-human hybrid with a fully human chest. It's the same as with Argonians and Khajiit. I shrunk those ladies right down almost to the opposite end of the slider from my human/elf alts, because it looks strange otherwise.

And I'll say again, I don't mind if there's a choice to have or hide boobs on female WWs, I just don't think this argument is about having an issue with femininity.

It would be really nice (forgive if this has been stated and I missed it) to see what kind of power levels ZOS is aiming for with these changes. It would be even better to see them bolt down a rough power level they're going for and going forward balance things around it. I'm sure there will be lots of adjusting on class sets and pure class passives throughout this PTS but they seem to vary pretty wildly so far, about 30k+ dps difference from the lowest to highest top parses per class I've seen floating around so it would be really good to know even for the sake of giving valuable feedback on what needs buffed/nerfed

Overamera wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Overamera wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I would love a video showing prior to setup on both sides plus duel itself!

It wasn't a duel. We both stood still parsing each other like parsing a dummy, each rotating through offensive and defensive rotations. The goal was to test maximum DPS on WW and maximum HPS on my Sorc. As seen from the screenshots, WW sustained a 10.2k DPS in nearly 2 minutes of dueling, and I sustained 10k+ HPS.

In an actual duel that DPS would most likely be around 8.5k-9k (accounting for blocking and roll dodges), which is still an absurd amount. Keep in mind, WW is still missing the 33% WD modifier due to a bug.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Please also include the 'generic meta DK build' for comparison if you do this (Pyrebrand DK as you mentioned it is darn-close to the wolf spec you're getting hit by) so that we have something for reference as a base to compare to (I still hate that player skill and latency can cause discrepancy but it should be sufficient for highlighting these potential issues never the less.).

The generic meta build is just Zaan + Pyrebrand + Vate ice staff and the new DK class masteries. That one does around 8k DPS, but has more burst.

Both specs are currently overtuned on PTS. Interestingly enough, that DK spec cannot kill WW because they're stacking 40k+ HP.

Overamera wrote: »

Wuffy here clearly just dont want his fav playstyle nerfed. The damage WW is putting in PvP is ridiculous and clearly needs a change. @Wuffy stop demanding proof from others. Unless you go and duel React while he plays WW and you try to survive it and also try and kill him on a normal PvP build and show us video PROOF that WW isnt as strong as he says then clearly WW needs a nerf as everything posted points that WW is absolutely broken in PvP.

I'm sorry but no, just standing around hitting each other in a specific rotation without ACTUALLY dueling is NOT proof that WW is overperforming. You can't claim that treating each other like a dummy is any sort of actual testing like a real duel would be. Just like an actual dummy it doesn't take into effect actually moving around, blocking, CC, terrain, or anything else that would matter in a real fight.

And yes, we ARE allowed to demand proof that something is overperforming when that thing has been ass for so long and has only been in testing for a few days but people are already shouting for nerfs. Don't tell us not to ask for it, that only makes it seem like you're afraid of being proven wrong. Also dude has said several times iirc that they'd be happy to duel so I don't get the point in bringing that up. There has been no viable proof otherwise because again, a single duel isn't anywhere near enough of a sample size to base claims off of, ESPECIALLY if it wasn't even a real duel.

I've already seen multiple 10k dps cmx, so proof has already been shown lol. I never said he should stand there as a dummy, I literally said "DUEL". 10k DPS as a WW on dueling meta and it's already way higher than what normal classes (even reworked DK) in dueling meta for PVP is clear sample that it's OVERPERFORMING. Even as if they acted like test dummy.

Then you wouldn't mind sharing those combat metrics if you've seen so many, right? Like I said, without proof people can claim whatever they want to suit their argument. Claiming you've seen these isn't the same as posting the proof for everyone else to see as well.

That's why I said people need to be testing with various builds, both the WW AND the non-WW. Get actual video or combat stats proof and share it. That way everyone can see if WW IS the OP thing or if it's other things that need changing. Rather than acting like WW is 100% the problem for sure and not even considering the potential for other factors to be at play.

Because refusing to acknowledge other things might be contributing to a problem is how we get things nerfed into the ground. Again. And I'll reiterate my previous point; dueling is NOT all of PvP. It's one part of it, and all the other kinds of PvP can have you getting piled by numerous players. You can't try to balance for all of PvP because of how something performs in one instance of it.

Did you miss the 10k dps metrics already posted on this thread?

You mean from like...one or two duels that weren't even actual fights but were instead people standing around treating each other like dummies? Did YOU miss the part where I (and others now) have said that we can't call for nerfs on such a miniscule amount of data that doesn't even reflect actual fights? That's not anywhere enough to be a sample size.

We need multiple tests of multiple builds, both for the WW and for the person fighting them.

What we DON'T need is people treating parses on each other in one or two ""duels"" like it's all the proof anyone should want or need.

ETA that someone else posted some metrics showing their Stamsorc hitting around 8k. But even then, we don't know much about either build. Which is why we need people posting actual in-depth data about what they and their opponent are using, and it's why videos will be a LOT more clear and telling than just static images of CMX stats that don't tell anywhere near the whole story of each individual fight.

xylena wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

The way I see it, main issue is the infinite healing/sustain provided by Conservation of Energy

If it's a problem on WW then it's a problem on Sorc too, and I see a lot of Sorcs.

It's a problem on Stam Sorc specifically. Even with 70k Magicka and Major Vitality on MagSorc, my shields evaporate before I have even finished the animation. I can't even survive my Warden partner spamming force shock and some dots at me.
So the intended playstyle of shielding up and being able to turn around and do a combo for a few moments is entirely gone.

I am shocked how much damage this game has from any source.

I really dislike how the developers are balancing the game's classes through gear sets/mythics instead of focusing on class abilities, passives, and their mutual interactions, especially now that we have class masteries.

for instance: a 15% damage bonus on a 5 piece set is massive it effectively forces anyone playing that archetype to use it, which kills build diversity. Yet, people don't seem to complain about it much even tough it has long-term consequences?

Designers could put more effort into meaningful balance by changing the core class design rather than pushing mandatory choices