Radiate77 wrote: »

Hope everyone’s having a great day, just wanted to say thanks to the team for this incredible system.

Since it’s introduction, our guild has been able to help bring people through their first hard mode trials, with unique builds that make the content more forgiving than ever.

One such example being a Templar or Warden healer, and a Dragonknight or Arcanist tank, now having the ability to revive players still learning the mechanics by throwing on Living Death to use a Necromancer ultimate.

Trials have never been more inviting!
And it’s not just PvE.

I have seen more creativity than ever in Battlegrounds. Playing a ranged build? You now have access to Streak and/or Cloak! Tired of getting blasted by said ranged builds? Counter them with Dragon Fire Scales or Crystalized Slab. Assassination is overtuned, but you know what? Good luck touching someone sitting in a Shifting Standard! We finally have checks and balances, and although some skill lines do need love, it’s nice to finally have some diversity of encounters.

I see new, never thought possible, builds daily.
So thank you, ZOS.

I get where the pro-subclassing people are coming from, but I think you can appreciate subclassing for what it is AND understand how its bad for the game at the same time, which is where I am. I get that people enjoy it. The easy power makes high-end content more accessible. But any semblance of balance in the game is gone. Go into Cyrodil and every non-ball group is a tanky sweat group that is just going to streak and run away from anyone they can't dominate, so fights just become this cat-mouse game, which is really frustrating.

Players can now stack offensive stats to such a degree that there really isn't any counter to it right now. I'm speaking directly to crit builds, that can just absolutely delete you regardless of how much inpen you have. Even with maxed out inpen, you are only reducing their crit damage by ~ 35%, and subclassing has basically allowed players to stack that amount of EXTRA crit damage such that they're still doing 100% extra damage to you when they crit. You simply can't stack enough crit resistance to defend against that right now.

And almost every offensive build runs Warden beetles + contingency because of the emphasis on comboing and that is the easiest way to stack a ton of damage into such a tight window.

In PVE, while it is easier to bring people on the lower end into trials because the builds are basically carry builds, those builds are also in a pretty narrow band. What I mean by that is if you want players to experience endgame PVE and they weren't very good or had low DPS because they didn't know how to design or execute a proper rotation - subclassing has only exacerbated that particular issue because now they have so many options (and so many options are bad!). So the best thing to do for these people is to set them up with a 1 bar build or a beamer build (or both), and so you see a LOT of these builds now in endgame. The variety really isn't what you are making it out to be. The bottom line is if you want to do good, you basically make a cookie cutter build utilizing 3 of the 5 best performing subclass skill lines, and that's all you'll see, and they all use the same 3 base classes to begin with.

And because of the extra power, you get overland PVE content like Solstice. Nobody is going to be doing those incursions after the event, and they're a pain to do by yourself. But they were built around the idea that there are a ton of people around who are going to be dropping a ton of DPS, and when that isn't true, the content is going to be miserable to play.

So in the short term, I can see that its fun and appreciate it, maybe moreso for some than others. But at the end of the day, something that is fun doesn't mean its good for the game.

Xarc wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ESO Classic would remove several quality of life features, like drop curation, the Armory, mount swimming, stackable writs/surveys, and many more we take for granted.

why ?
We are not asking for all of this to be removed.

It seems you haven't understood the concept.

Generally, "classic" modes refer to an early version of that game. WoW Classic is an early build of WoW, Minecraft Classic is an early build of Minecraft, and so on. I assumed ESO Classic would be just that — an early build of ESO, before any of those QoL features were added.

What is being asked for in the original post makes no sense, though. That is like the No-Proc No-CP campaign of Cyrodiil, where arbitrary things were disabled (or supposed to be, anyway) and as it turned out, that was an unpopular campaign, save for those who valued using skills over sets.


You can't cherry pick the best bits and call it a classic mode of ESO. Further, the implication of a "classic mode" is that it does not receive new updates from the modern game.

I think all the content added on after the original game should be called what it is: Downloadable Content (DLC). The parsing from DLC to Chapter to Season Pass is both confusing and unwelcome.

I like subclassing as a system because it makes for some pretty fun builds. I especially enjoy what it's done for pickup groups in group content and roleplaying.

I dislike that the current balance of subclassing has had a detrimental impact on endgame activities and that so many of those players are unhappy with their gameplay experience.

I like subclassing but do feel it needs balance changes.

I don’t think this poll is going to have the desired outcome you want.

These forums are a small subset of the actual playerbase. More than 90% of the people who used to participate here have either been banned, or no longer use this place to communicate.

Compared to older threads, each of our newer ones only receive a fraction of the interaction that they used to, and most of the people who are left over are all unhappy about one thing or another.

Edit: If I’m wrong, I welcome that. That said if people don’t want to see others trample over their favorite systems, they should speak up.

ZOS, you really need to look at the cadence of events after this year because the fatigue is real. Logged in just now to see that another event has started after we just finished the god awful Writhing Wall event which overlapped with the Witches' Festival. The more events that you run, the less impact the events have because instead of being fun, they feel like a chore, and the rewards for doing them seem to not be worth it when the drop rate for the good rewards that people do these events to get is so abysmal.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

That's a lot of words to simply say you can't answer the question. Try again:

"With the power of subclassing at your command, you have options to play your way like never before."

So by all means tell me how a DD can play how they want - doing max damage - and a tank/healer does the same when there is now a serious drop in the DD's damage mitigation?

Where do high-end raid leads impose that burden?

On the DDs or the tanks/healers?

Edit: Oh and just for the record I have zero issues running my un-subclassed un-meta Templar tank in any content. So that problem you think I have is sadly a figment of your imagination.

No no no, you are confused. This is not the case of a player being unable to play how THEY want to, it's players not playing how YOU want them to.

Is that sufficiently terse?

Way to miss the point. /facepalm

My complaint is players are not able to play how THEY want because the system so grossly favours min/maxing that OTHERS won't let them.

LOL. "others won't let them"? Who? Their mommies? The IRS? Santa Claus? Who is stopping players from playing how -they- want?

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Now they tell you what to bring including the subclasses - what is the difference?

From about 6 allowable builds per role to 1 - the opposite of build diversity.

Subclassing needs to allow build diversity at all levels or it needs to go.

From what I recall from guildmates doing harder stuff over the years, that really does not hold true - their raid leads were always very specific about the exact builds required.

So it seems it is the raid leads & not the subclassing per se that is the issue?

BananaBender wrote: »

I would love a proper subclassing feature in ESO, but what ever we have right now is an absolute abomination and is not sustainable in any way. It was clearly released half cooked and zos has made no effort to actually fix it. This feature only works if you don't care about performance at all, but let's be real, any feature works if you don't care about performance.

I call it subclassing as that is how ZOS refer to it, but really it's multi-classing. I'd actually like a proper sub-classing system, i.e. further role specialization within the build.