Best Of
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
Naturally any buff to a pure class is by definition an improvement, just like gaining 3% spell damage would be one. Yet is 3% spell damage a difference large enough to have impact? That is the greater query.
These mastery passives needed to be massive indeed if they were supposed to meaningfully tip the balance between pure classing and sub classing. Especially bearing in mind we can but choose two. In most cases you must choose between either damage and tankiness, or damage and sustain, or tankiness and sustain. Subclasses do not have to make that choice. They can cover all 3 in very powerful ways.
Class Mastery fails at this because we can only choose 2 talents, and while yes, some sound strong on first glance, they are actually too insignificant once you consider the powerful passive effects subclasses get from passives and passive skill effects. Not to mention the unfair skill combinations this allows. (The infamous Shalks into Incap and Spec Bow for example)
For Dragonknight, I would be so bold to say that the masteries are probably okay, just because Dragonknight is already at least competitive as a pure class. For any other class though, it's not enough until their own remasters.
From the Sorcerer perspective I like and appreciate the general direction or idea behind the passives. With Font of Power we try to reward the OG magicka stack, and grant % bonuses based on it. The idea is fine, but the values are not. (And this is true for many other class masteries I have seen) Magicka stacking has become unattractive long ago, so requiring 1750 magicka for 1% of spell damage is a steep ask. Most builds have barely above 30k without sabotaging their damage/build in other places. The original 1500 was already quite crazy.
And the same is true for Conservation of Energy; the primary sustain passive of this line-up. 2% of magicka and stamina is 660 magicka and 280 stamina refund for the average pve and pvp setup, or reversed for a stamina build. In a pre-sub classing world I would have deemed this a wonderful blessing. But in a world where Heart of Flame exists? Where various sustain skills and passives can be stacked from multiple classes?
These are just two examples, and I am sure other classes will have their own nits to pick. To be honest, I find the other 3 passives so weak that I don't even know what to say other than making them stronger.
Thank you so much for doing this. I am simply glad this is happening at all. My feedback would be that these passives are good in theory, but the values are too nerfed or careful, and my 2nd feedback is that I don't even want to suffer for 2 more months before these come.
These mastery passives needed to be massive indeed if they were supposed to meaningfully tip the balance between pure classing and sub classing. Especially bearing in mind we can but choose two. In most cases you must choose between either damage and tankiness, or damage and sustain, or tankiness and sustain. Subclasses do not have to make that choice. They can cover all 3 in very powerful ways.
Class Mastery fails at this because we can only choose 2 talents, and while yes, some sound strong on first glance, they are actually too insignificant once you consider the powerful passive effects subclasses get from passives and passive skill effects. Not to mention the unfair skill combinations this allows. (The infamous Shalks into Incap and Spec Bow for example)
For Dragonknight, I would be so bold to say that the masteries are probably okay, just because Dragonknight is already at least competitive as a pure class. For any other class though, it's not enough until their own remasters.
From the Sorcerer perspective I like and appreciate the general direction or idea behind the passives. With Font of Power we try to reward the OG magicka stack, and grant % bonuses based on it. The idea is fine, but the values are not. (And this is true for many other class masteries I have seen) Magicka stacking has become unattractive long ago, so requiring 1750 magicka for 1% of spell damage is a steep ask. Most builds have barely above 30k without sabotaging their damage/build in other places. The original 1500 was already quite crazy.
And the same is true for Conservation of Energy; the primary sustain passive of this line-up. 2% of magicka and stamina is 660 magicka and 280 stamina refund for the average pve and pvp setup, or reversed for a stamina build. In a pre-sub classing world I would have deemed this a wonderful blessing. But in a world where Heart of Flame exists? Where various sustain skills and passives can be stacked from multiple classes?
These are just two examples, and I am sure other classes will have their own nits to pick. To be honest, I find the other 3 passives so weak that I don't even know what to say other than making them stronger.
Thank you so much for doing this. I am simply glad this is happening at all. My feedback would be that these passives are good in theory, but the values are too nerfed or careful, and my 2nd feedback is that I don't even want to suffer for 2 more months before these come.
Dracane
10
Re: Dk questionable change
It was only added last minute during the PTS as a bandaid since pure DK wasn't performing as well as they hoped. It was purposely inflated as per their notes as a stop gap until they figured out a better solution. The implementation brought about concerns as to how exactly it improves pure DK when it only required base DK, aka, people were still subclassing which defeats the purpose of the class refresh. It also disproportionately gave Ardent Flame much more power than Earthen Heart or Draconic Power despite the design intent shifting to making all 3 lines good for all roles. Suffice it to say, everyone knew it wasn't going to stay long term.
After U49, Gilliam during the dev stream said he had been working on the Masteries for 3 weeks straight which puts it shortly after the implementation of the DK damage done whip changes.
Stands to reason if it was inflated and considered temporary, added last minute, intended to promote pure classing, and functionally has a worse implementation than that of what Class Masteries do, it was always intended to be replaced.
Whip and Lash are the strongest spammables in the game right now, they don't need the damage done multipliers to compete.
If you were subclassing, sorry, but yeah you're losing some power, that's intended long term.
If you were pure classing, you'll more than make up for it via Inexorable Descent's +10% damage done and Wildfire Embers unique stacking dot.
After U49, Gilliam during the dev stream said he had been working on the Masteries for 3 weeks straight which puts it shortly after the implementation of the DK damage done whip changes.
Stands to reason if it was inflated and considered temporary, added last minute, intended to promote pure classing, and functionally has a worse implementation than that of what Class Masteries do, it was always intended to be replaced.
Whip and Lash are the strongest spammables in the game right now, they don't need the damage done multipliers to compete.
If you were subclassing, sorry, but yeah you're losing some power, that's intended long term.
If you were pure classing, you'll more than make up for it via Inexorable Descent's +10% damage done and Wildfire Embers unique stacking dot.
MashmalloMan
11
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Oh no, like 12 guys are gonna log out, how will the game survive.moderatelyfatman wrote: »This will drive regular PvPers away during peak hours as they will have nothing to do if GH is pop-locked.
A lot more than that will try Vengeance and actually like it, or at least find it "good enough" for waiting in queue. There are a significant number of players who log into GH because it's the only game in town, not because they love ball groups, proc sets, and one shots.
You haven't logged into Cyrodiil on live for more than a year. You aren't seeing how Cyrodiil populations have risen in that time or seen the nightly 50-150 queues that we have now.
Now that vengeance has been out of the picture for a while some of the PvP community is returning.
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
Hi ZOS,
Stop doing this, the majority of your PvP base does not want this washed game mode. We don’t want to contribute anything to your “testing” because we are against it. Frankly, it’s a waste of time. With all the good that’s being done recently in the studio this is the remaining outlier of a team clinging to one last bad decision. It feels like we’re just being reminded to stay skeptical of the PvP dev team’s vacuum decision making philosophy.
*edit*
Can we test PvE Vengeance on April 20th too?
Basically, your best option is to participate as early as it goes live, and spam dmg aoes en masse.
If all PvPers and their grannies show up and help testing whether the cap of 6 will or will not melt down the servers, we might be done with that test in a couple of days.
Boycotts are pointless now, Vengeance will go live, so if you want to have GH back faster then help test this change.
Not to mention that this test is perhaps the most important - in a megazerg environment such as Vengeance we need bombing more than ever, and a cap of 3 on dmg aoe is ridiculous beyond belief.
Ah yes, that’s right…. Hancho always has a reason or incentive for us to play Vengeance, in this case it’s so we can get GH back faster lol. What a joke. No thanks, hope they limit your AoEs to one person and yall can enjoy those Megabanger battles you mentioned at 61fps.
You can show your bad faith all you want, but the point stands: whining about a one-week test is pathetic when there is a practical solution to shorten its duration.
Vengeance is not a test.
Vengeance is not a solution to any problem that exists in ESO.
Vengeance is a distratction and ZOS neglecting to do what they've always told us they were doing. Specifically they've always told us they're working on fixing issues in live Cyrodiil and they told us that for over a decade. ZOS has an obligation to do what they've always told us they were doing.
Vengeance is ZOS telling us to look somewhere else while they fail to even ATTEMPT to do what they've always told us they were doing.
There is NOTHING practical about vengeance. It's just ZOS refusing to do what they've always told us they were doing.
Vengeance is a total betrayal of the loyal PvP player base.
The bad faith is coming from ZOS and their minions that go along with their deception and lies. (yes, ZOS lied about vengeance being a test from day 1 and they've publicly admitted this)
Lucasl402
10
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
I would prefer radical change to a "cleaned up" GH, but check back with me in 2 years after they've overhauled all 7 classes and (hopefully) adjusted the busted sets/stats. In my perfect world the game would still have the 2014 soft cap system to prevent broken minmaxing.moderatelyfatman wrote: »I'm just curious though: would you prefer Vengeance or a cleaned up version of Gray Host where a lot of the problems you describe actually get addressed (not necessarily gone but much much less of an issue)?
Cyrodiil is thriving with queues exceeding 150 during prime time even on weekdays. I know this doesn't fit your world view on this issue, but it's the facts. The PvP community is getting along just fine without those who left and refuse to come back and experiencing increased demand for normal live GH as it is now.
Big nerf: velothi ur-mage's amulet
The dammage done to monsters that the amulet was giving is 15% which was changed from multiplicative to additive. This means that for the average player (who has other sources of additive damage such as minor berserk, damage from chapion points ..) this will lower our overall damage by about 5%.
We know beam builds are easier but they are no way near the top builds. It provided a way for mid skill players to be able to run group PvE content in a decent way withough being overpowered.
The amulet needs either a buff from 15% to 20% or it needs its penalty to Light and heavy attack damage to be halved from 99% to 50% (as at 99% you can still proc weapon enchants with no damage loss).
What I am most afraid is that without a buff to the amulet we might need to kick players from trials if they run a beam build as their damage will be even lower than before and it is just not worth it keeping them around.
But for trial finder groups: man, those groups will struggle with damage as at least half of the players there are beam builds and they will not be able to finish any vet content.
(for me its fine I will just go to anyother of my other classes: DK, or pure sorc or pure nightblade or purre templar build is fine as long as people would know how to light attack weave)
But as a lot of people run beam builds with Velothi, nerfing their core item would make a drop in player enjoyment and can lead to less player base down the road which none of us want for this game.
We know beam builds are easier but they are no way near the top builds. It provided a way for mid skill players to be able to run group PvE content in a decent way withough being overpowered.
The amulet needs either a buff from 15% to 20% or it needs its penalty to Light and heavy attack damage to be halved from 99% to 50% (as at 99% you can still proc weapon enchants with no damage loss).
What I am most afraid is that without a buff to the amulet we might need to kick players from trials if they run a beam build as their damage will be even lower than before and it is just not worth it keeping them around.
But for trial finder groups: man, those groups will struggle with damage as at least half of the players there are beam builds and they will not be able to finish any vet content.
(for me its fine I will just go to anyother of my other classes: DK, or pure sorc or pure nightblade or purre templar build is fine as long as people would know how to light attack weave)
But as a lot of people run beam builds with Velothi, nerfing their core item would make a drop in player enjoyment and can lead to less player base down the road which none of us want for this game.
I Owe You All an Apology....
Ok, I owe you all an apology.
Context:
So why do I owe you all an apology?
Because Oakensoul… oh boy… it’s bad. Really, really bad. This is NOT the Oakensoul I remember—not even close. I don’t know if it got nerfed again or when the last nerf happened, but ZOS… congrats, you really destroyed this item. lol
This thing feels completely useless now. My god, ZOS… why did you do this…?
I Owe You All an Apology, You Were Right About Oakensoul - @Zaan's
Context:
- I used to struggle with 2bar builds before Oakensoul. When ZOS gave us this mythic, my life changed, my love for the game changed, and everything felt better. As some of you may know, I’ve always defended Oakensoul players because I know how good that item used to be.
- I switched from Oakensoul to Arcanist, and since then I’ve mostly played with 2bars, with or without Rakkhat’s. The truth is, I never went back to Oakensoul, not for any specific reason, but simply because I moved forward.
- Today I joined vRG with my worst build (Oakensoul), and I already knew it before we even started—I even said it in chat.
So why do I owe you all an apology?
Because Oakensoul… oh boy… it’s bad. Really, really bad. This is NOT the Oakensoul I remember—not even close. I don’t know if it got nerfed again or when the last nerf happened, but ZOS… congrats, you really destroyed this item. lol
This thing feels completely useless now. My god, ZOS… why did you do this…?
I Owe You All an Apology, You Were Right About Oakensoul - @Zaan's
Athory
9
Class Masteries, Sorcerer perspective
The Sorc class masteries are just bad right now, and really need to be buffed
Conservation of Energy
This is alright, but Dark Exchange already gives a lot of sustain, and as a pure Sorc, you'll likely run Crystal Shard as a DD, which is the main role to use the increased max resources
Font of Power
At 30k max resources, this is around 17% increased WSD, which at 7k WSD, is an extra 1.2k. Not awful, but not good enough to draw people back to pure Sorc
Static Reverberation
On a no-pet Sorc, this could be alright, but the lower chance based on the number of permanent pets just doesn't work. I can see the idea here, that the pets are always active, and hitting something with 3 different attacks at once (you, Familiar, Twilight) could be OP, but is it? The pets attack around once per second, so they'll only ever trigger one hit of Static out of 5 per pet, but they tank your chance of applying it based on simply existing. Pets aren't that powerful, but they represent such a massive cost, since they need to be slotted on both bars
Calculated Defense
The 3% WSD to the group is nice, but a 30% shield for 0.5 secs doesn't really do much. At 40k health, which is the average health for a tank, this is a 12k shield, but Conjured Ward is around 14k. I can see the appeal of applying the shield when casting any ability, so you don't need to spend the Magicka cost for Conjured Ward, but it's not that appealing
Sphere of Influence
The only ability in their class kit that gives allies shields is Daedric Refuge, which is awful to try to actually use to shield anyone, since healers tend to be behind the group, but Refuge would need them to be in the middle of the group, and for a DD, with 20k Max Health, it's capped at 3k shields anyway. Fragmented Shield from Earthern Heart has around 6k shields when around 30k Max Magicka, and caps at 31% of the targets Max Health, but the entire skill line is better for support
Lead From the Front (Dragonknight)
While this isn't a Sorc Class Mastery, it's still worth discussing here, since the Major Berserk on this could kill Sorcerer as a support class. Sorcerer has very little in the way of group utility.
In Dark Magic: Absorption Field (heal), Crystal Weapon (1k armour shred for 5 secs), Encase (Major Maim), Vibrant Shroud (same as Encase, plus heal), Daedic Refuge (shields), and Exploitation (Minor Prophecy)
In Daedric Summoning: Summon Storm Atronach (Major Berserk and synergy to 1 ally), Summon Twilight Matriarch (heal), and Regenerative Ward (Minor Intellect and Endurance)
In Storm Calling: Lightning Splash (synergy to 1 ally), and Power Surge (heal)
That's all the group utility Sorcs have in class skills, but basically everything has better options elsewhere. The only one that can't easily be replaced, and the main reason right now to run any Sorc skill line on a support, is the Major Berserk. If DKs can give everyone Major Berserk for 13 secs when they cast Standard of Might, it would remove any reason to use Daedric Summoning on a support, which would leave Sorcs as DDs only
Conservation of Energy
This is alright, but Dark Exchange already gives a lot of sustain, and as a pure Sorc, you'll likely run Crystal Shard as a DD, which is the main role to use the increased max resources
Font of Power
At 30k max resources, this is around 17% increased WSD, which at 7k WSD, is an extra 1.2k. Not awful, but not good enough to draw people back to pure Sorc
Static Reverberation
On a no-pet Sorc, this could be alright, but the lower chance based on the number of permanent pets just doesn't work. I can see the idea here, that the pets are always active, and hitting something with 3 different attacks at once (you, Familiar, Twilight) could be OP, but is it? The pets attack around once per second, so they'll only ever trigger one hit of Static out of 5 per pet, but they tank your chance of applying it based on simply existing. Pets aren't that powerful, but they represent such a massive cost, since they need to be slotted on both bars
Calculated Defense
The 3% WSD to the group is nice, but a 30% shield for 0.5 secs doesn't really do much. At 40k health, which is the average health for a tank, this is a 12k shield, but Conjured Ward is around 14k. I can see the appeal of applying the shield when casting any ability, so you don't need to spend the Magicka cost for Conjured Ward, but it's not that appealing
Sphere of Influence
The only ability in their class kit that gives allies shields is Daedric Refuge, which is awful to try to actually use to shield anyone, since healers tend to be behind the group, but Refuge would need them to be in the middle of the group, and for a DD, with 20k Max Health, it's capped at 3k shields anyway. Fragmented Shield from Earthern Heart has around 6k shields when around 30k Max Magicka, and caps at 31% of the targets Max Health, but the entire skill line is better for support
Lead From the Front (Dragonknight)
While this isn't a Sorc Class Mastery, it's still worth discussing here, since the Major Berserk on this could kill Sorcerer as a support class. Sorcerer has very little in the way of group utility.
In Dark Magic: Absorption Field (heal), Crystal Weapon (1k armour shred for 5 secs), Encase (Major Maim), Vibrant Shroud (same as Encase, plus heal), Daedic Refuge (shields), and Exploitation (Minor Prophecy)
In Daedric Summoning: Summon Storm Atronach (Major Berserk and synergy to 1 ally), Summon Twilight Matriarch (heal), and Regenerative Ward (Minor Intellect and Endurance)
In Storm Calling: Lightning Splash (synergy to 1 ally), and Power Surge (heal)
That's all the group utility Sorcs have in class skills, but basically everything has better options elsewhere. The only one that can't easily be replaced, and the main reason right now to run any Sorc skill line on a support, is the Major Berserk. If DKs can give everyone Major Berserk for 13 secs when they cast Standard of Might, it would remove any reason to use Daedric Summoning on a support, which would leave Sorcs as DDs only
Elendildur
12
Re: The critter massacre in the challenge zones
It was an unpleasant view to see this hoarker massacre in Wrotghar. Then I saw people running in circles killing birds and rabbits, that is just sad..
Also you do realize that all topics on this forums are basicaly "people who get emotional about pixels" ?
And the argument "this is just a video game" could be used as a response to every single one of those topics?
For some reason caring about pixel animals is lame, but all those other things are very important (like how much fur does the new werewolf have, are the shining mounts to flashy, are the spikes in new spike armor long enought, and so on, you name it.
)
Also you do realize that all topics on this forums are basicaly "people who get emotional about pixels" ?
And the argument "this is just a video game" could be used as a response to every single one of those topics?
For some reason caring about pixel animals is lame, but all those other things are very important (like how much fur does the new werewolf have, are the shining mounts to flashy, are the spikes in new spike armor long enought, and so on, you name it.
)
Re: April 20th Vengeance Only..
tomofhyrule wrote: »Brace yourself for an influx of pvers about to give you their wisdom on why Vengeance is better
Is Greyhost disabled again? Please say it isn’t
It is disabled again, for that week only.
It has also been confirmed that permaVengeance will drop in U50 alongside Grey Host as the two options
Will Blackreach still be up? It's going to really suck if there is nowhere for people to go if there is a queue to get into GH.
@React
It feels like a step backwards given that the devs seemed like they were starting to listen to the players.
ZOS keeps ignoring the fact that PvPers, while small in number, are some of their best long term customers.