They seem to only appear when you are basically on top of them and often with a delay... would be nice if you could see them from a bit further away...

I think another problem. Is time spent. People don't want to have to take the time to group. They want to do something quickly. Do what they need to do and get out and done. It is the same with dungeons. You may not wait now for a group, but you will as the zone loses its newness. Similar to grouping for a dungeon you can wait forever sometimes. But then people are in such a hurry they rush. People don't like to wait. Which is ultimately what this new group zone is going to cause.

Note that many of the event zone’s challenges were designed for groups in mind, so be prepared for a tough fight if you’re venturing into the zone solo.

Advertising this as simply group content, but soloable is kind of misleading. I think the majority of players will struggle to even solo a trash pack. I think people were expecting difficulty more like a PvE IC or a world boss that's fairly soloable in a decent build and maybe with a companion, rather than something closer to that of a trial or vet DLC dungeon.

I think the problem is player expectation. People know what dungeon and a raid is. You're probably not going to just stumble into one without a group. But that's not the case with the Night Market. It's not instanced group content that you know you need a group for before even going into.
It feels like it should be something where you can just go in, check it out, maybe find a zerg to tag along with, do your dailies or whatever and be done with. Instead, it's basically a public trial that, if you're solo, walls you the first trash pack you fight right out the door. It doesn't help that it feels empty and difficult to find other people to naturally group up with.

Athory wrote: »

Zero dungeons? We get three different ones. Why not combine them and release a proper new dungeon like ZoS always do?

We also have a new trial. Why not just release it for all players outside the [snip][snip] Market and treat it like every other trial? What’s the problem?

I don’t see anything fun in this system because it’s just:
farm bosses to get keys -> do dungeons to get more keys -> then go to the trial… That isn’t fun. Repeat! That isn’t normal. ESO has never been like this.

Questing is even worse. For the first time in ESO, I can’t properly quest alone. Why not? This is an Elder Scrolls game, why can’t I solo quest like always?
Yes, technically I can solo, but only if I skip everything, sneak through like a ghost, grab the quest, and leave. Where’s the fun in that? This isn’t ESO. It’s never been like this.

There’s absolutely nothing, truly nothing, that I enjoy about the [snip][snip] Market. And I’m not even talking about the difficulty itself, but the overall design and experience. There’s nothing fun here.

The only reason I’m playing it is to get my monster set shoulders so I never have to come back.
New trial? I’m not going back. I don’t want to redo this entire grind just to run one trial again.
I’m playing this [snip] Market, and I’m honestly hating the experience.

Is this really what ESO is going to become?

You keep asking this question but ESO has always been events, chores, fomo, busywork, dailies. If you hate night market then don't play it. It's totally ok. It's hard to solo. Very hard. I personally didn't even try it but got a group instead and have been having a blast. There may be nothing fun for you there but others disagree.

ESO is now different than what it used to be. The chapter model is gone. Many people here cheered it's death, maybe not knowing what seasonal content means. Now it's a system where you might have to wait your turn if the season doesn't appeal to you. This season is hard group content. I would've rather had dungeons but this is what we have. Next season is solo questing and exploration. I'm super stoked on that too, outside of vet and hm stuff, I love questing and exploration. So if that's what you're after, it's coming.

As an aside, I would hope Zos would be more clear in the future. The tag line you might want to bring a group, that says to me they're saying it in a cheeky way. Just be super clear. You will need a good build and effort to solo this. It is very hard. We recommend grouping. But in an attempt to probably not rile feathers they didn't. They kind of tiptoed. I think that the crux of the issue is really people are not familiar with seasonal and think that because it's been heavily advertised, that this is the banner centerpiece content for this year. It is not. You'll see them try to hype every season this way. Expect to see battle passes themed around that seasons content, lives and directs, etc. Just like for night market.

Soarora wrote: »

I suspect they will increase the cap. Even with 2 groups of people converging on a boss, it doesn’t topple over like a world boss during an event. There’s room to increase the cap. I understand why it’s all one zone now though… you can see if a skirmish is up on another map, you can see the bosses on other maps, you can move between them without dealing with people having long load screens…

Is this why I can’t see the bosses on the map sometimes? I thought the game was just being buggy or I had not discovered one yet.

I really think many players are like me and enjoy the more organic way of grouping we have always had. If I needed to do a world boss daily I would just show up at the location and wait for others to arrive. Or, like I mentioned above, doing a puzzle in the NM. It would be easier to have a group to do these things but in a group you are at the mercy of what others want and it doesn’t always match what you want to do. If there were more players I could just move from one puzzle or boss to the next and get more of what is on my to do list accomplished. The funny thing is I thought my trials group would want to do something there but I haven’t heard from them. I’m glad I joined a housing group this week because those guys are eager to get their leads and are running groups. I hope I can get more leads for myself before they are done, they are getting slaughtered in there.

I consider myself both a causal player because I like to do new content by myself on my less than stellar dps (who has done all the other zones) and a more experienced player because I am on a vet trials prog team. I have always got a zone clear for new content and done all of the Golden Pursuits but I may have to scale back my expectations dramatically this time. That bothers me. I don’t think I am going to get the dailies done, I could not finish the puzzle yesterday. I don’t know if I am going to get the leads, I only have one piece of the mythic so far. Yes, there is plenty of time left until the NM closes, but as time goes on people will either get what they want done or will decide this isn’t for them. I now question whether this content is for me at this point. I can do it with a group, but is this really fun? It’s really more frustrating than anything. I feel like I am doing it just to check off boxes and feeling like I am wasting a lot of time trying to meet those goals. I may have to give up on getting the wings of the house unlocked, getting credit for all of the bosses, and unlocking the dungeons and trial. ZOS should consider whether catering to the 0.01% was worth it when players like me, the maybe 1%, are ready to uninstall.

Athory wrote: »

Malyore wrote: »

I saw someone say this (I couldn't find the thread they'd said it in after going back to look. I'll edit their name in if I find it) and I think it's a really good point that needs more consideration.

People seem to be really complaining because the NM is something new to them and they don't understand or care to prepare for it. So imagine if trials were newly added to the game just now– a place where players have to group up, prepare, and learn.
How many would be complaining since that content is harder than what they're used to? How would trials seem to folks on day one launch if it was mostly just DPS' using story quest sets with no support roles?

I haven't had enough chance to truly interact with the NM to get a solid stance on it, and before its launch I thought I wouldn't even be interested in it. But from what I played I felt engaged, and I'm saddened to see how much instant negative feedback there is with the NM... it's really not that despicable seeming.



I chose to never touch solstice. How does NM compare to writhing wall?

You’re actually reinforcing the point, but from the opposite angle.

ESO has been around for over 12 years, and throughout that time it’s developed a very specific identity and gameplay style. Players are used to what ESO is and how its systems work.

This new [snip][snip] Market system that ZOs introduced represents a pretty big shift from that established formula. And that’s exactly why people are pushing back, it doesn’t really fit with what the game has traditionally been.

It’s not just about difficulty or players refusing to adapt. It’s more about the fact that this system feels out of place within the core design of ESO.
When something that different gets added after a decade, it’s naturally going to clash with player expectations.

Of course, some people will love it and others will hate it. But the fact remains: this is very different from what ESO is, and what should be added to the game.

Game’s gotten boring and stale, same thing every year with ramping disappointment as content releases get smaller and lower in quality (except dungeons which got better). ZOS needs to experiment. And adding Night Market isn’t any more experimental than IA or ToT. It’s actually quite similar to IA where across the entire thing, most mechanics are reused from other fights in the game.

And if the game hadn’t launched with trials, if trials were added now, people would be wailing about not being able to solo them.

I think the big problem is you when you have an event that last months and it only targets one type of player. That is really just bad design. If its a small even that is one thing, but and event that last months and a season is revolved around, well you need to try to figure out a way to make it accessible in either direction. To the people who enjoy easier content, and to. the ones who enjoy harder content. It should be up to the person on how they enjoy content, but up to the developer to figure out a way to accommodate all play styles. Whether it be add more difficulty levels for it, or Open the instances to more players per instance so that it is easier to just open group without having to actually group.