U50 Spoiler Thread for Thieves Guild Questline

ZOS_Kevin · April 13

This is the official spoiler thread for the new Thieves Guild Questline. In order to limit spoilers for those that don’t wish to see them, please post your feedback here. Thank you!

Aliyavana · April 13

TG is live on the 14th for anyone testing

Aliyavana · April 14

Overall, I think that the writing team did an amazing job at giving what many Breton-loving players desired out of a relevant Breton mage. Reading the related books and seeing the content regarding Sage Voernet fleshes out some of the early vagueness between Direnni and the Bretons, and touches upon that early Merethic and First Era lore for them.

I am still playing through the story to form a full opinion on him, but I do have one complaint which is his physical appearance. He is a huge figure in Breton lore, yet his attire is very generic and used by many other NPCs. The robes used here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689002/is-there-a-reason-this-outfit-is-still-unavailable

Now, I'd be fine if Voernet inspired a fashion trend used by people thousands of years later and it reflected in the costume's description once it finally releases. He was a Psijic Monk afterall and these robes tend to be used by generic monk NPCs.

However, Voernet has been with the Direnni (Meretic Era), the Psijic Order (1E 20), and at minimum he was around when Wayrest had nobility (1E 1100). He lived for a long time and could go with many different styles of clothing. Though I hope he is given something unique.

Though I would not mind if he leaned towards a look as the quintessential mage in terms of appearance, like the generic mage NPC from Arena

Or the one from Daggerfall

It also looks like Voernet uses the Guild's Eye Staff style

ON-item-weapon-Guild%27s_Eye_Staff.jpg

should probably be a different style since the mages guild was not founded till 2E 230, unless Voernet lived that long.

shadoza · April 15

Working in the banks lower floor. I was sneaking around guards for more than 30 minutes but could not find the person I was supposed to meet. I left the game, returned later. Then I went to the vault door and found her easily. Not sure what the deal was the first time round. Maybe give her a quest icon so we can tell where she is if she goes invisible again.

KingArthasMenethil · April 15

Visual stuff

Cartel: Honestly given the Werewolf Antagonists It feels very odd to not use the new Werewolf forms on NPCs.

Lion Guard: Feels very odd to not use their style that was added last year especially when the Lion Guard was updated all over the game. I've even checked at the Lion's Den and everyone's in Ancestral Breton but there's no Lion guard style (Lion Guard style is named "Lion Guard Captain"). Questline even has a moment where you can get a "Lion Guard disguise" which uses only Ancestral Breton.
TLDR: The "Lion Guard Captain" style from last year is not used on any of the Updated Lion Guard npcs from this update even the ones involved in the Thieves Guild questline.

Aliyavana · April 15

I feel like the captains at minimum should use the style

KingArthasMenethil wrote: »

Visual stuff

Cartel: Honestly given the Werewolf Antagonists It feels very odd to not use the new Werewolf forms on NPCs.

Lion Guard: Feels very odd to not use their style that was added last year especially when the Lion Guard was updated all over the game. I've even checked at the Lion's Den and everyone's in Ancestral Breton but there's no Lion guard style (Lion Guard style is named "Lion Guard Captain"). Questline even has a moment where you can get a "Lion Guard disguise" which uses only Ancestral Breton.
TLDR: The "Lion Guard Captain" style from last year is not used on any of the Updated Lion Guard npcs from this update even the ones involved in the Thieves Guild questline.

BloodstainedFay · April 15

Aliyavana wrote: »

Overall, I think that the writing team did an amazing job at giving what many Breton-loving players desired out of a relevant Breton mage. Reading the related books and seeing the content regarding Sage Voernet fleshes out some of the early vagueness between Direnni and the Bretons, and touches upon that early Merethic and First Era lore for them.

I am still playing through the story to form a full opinion on him, but I do have one complaint which is his physical appearance. He is a huge figure in Breton lore, yet his attire is very generic and used by many other NPCs. The robes used here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689002/is-there-a-reason-this-outfit-is-still-unavailable

Now, I'd be fine if Voernet inspired a fashion trend used by people thousands of years later and it reflected in the costume's description once it finally releases. He was a Psijic Monk afterall and these robes tend to be used by generic monk NPCs.

However, Voernet has been with the Direnni (Meretic Era), the Psijic Order (1E 20), and at minimum he was around when Wayrest had nobility (1E 1100). He lived for a long time and could go with many different styles of clothing. Though I hope he is given something unique.

Though I would not mind if he leaned towards a look as the quintessential mage in terms of appearance, like the generic mage NPC from Arena

Or the one from Daggerfall

It also looks like Voernet uses the Guild's Eye Staff style

should probably be a different style since the mages guild was not founded till 2E 230, unless Voernet lived that long.

I'm in agreement with Aliyavanna. Whilst the staff doesn't bother me as much, his appearance does look a bit...generic. Ulfsid looks like a stereotypical mage too, but she still has some visual interest going on. I'm not sure I could pick Voernet out of a crowd of old man Bretons meanwhile!
Bretons are meant to be flamboyant, even their spellcasting is described that way. So why does he look like an old drab monk?Just replacing the costume with the Courtly Traveling Attire, Cumberland Anniversary Attire, King Emeric's Diamond Regalia or any other somewhat flashier Breton style would go a long way.

Aliyavana · April 15

BloodstainedFay wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Overall, I think that the writing team did an amazing job at giving what many Breton-loving players desired out of a relevant Breton mage. Reading the related books and seeing the content regarding Sage Voernet fleshes out some of the early vagueness between Direnni and the Bretons, and touches upon that early Merethic and First Era lore for them.

I am still playing through the story to form a full opinion on him, but I do have one complaint which is his physical appearance. He is a huge figure in Breton lore, yet his attire is very generic and used by many other NPCs. The robes used here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689002/is-there-a-reason-this-outfit-is-still-unavailable

Now, I'd be fine if Voernet inspired a fashion trend used by people thousands of years later and it reflected in the costume's description once it finally releases. He was a Psijic Monk afterall and these robes tend to be used by generic monk NPCs.

However, Voernet has been with the Direnni (Meretic Era), the Psijic Order (1E 20), and at minimum he was around when Wayrest had nobility (1E 1100). He lived for a long time and could go with many different styles of clothing. Though I hope he is given something unique.

Though I would not mind if he leaned towards a look as the quintessential mage in terms of appearance, like the generic mage NPC from Arena

Or the one from Daggerfall

It also looks like Voernet uses the Guild's Eye Staff style

should probably be a different style since the mages guild was not founded till 2E 230, unless Voernet lived that long.

I'm in agreement with Aliyavanna. Whilst the staff doesn't bother me as much, his appearance does look a bit...generic. Ulfsid looks like a stereotypical mage too, but she still has some visual interest going on. I'm not sure I could pick Voernet out of a crowd of old man Bretons meanwhile!
Bretons are meant to be flamboyant, even their spellcasting is described that way. So why does he look like an old drab monk?Just replacing the costume with the Courtly Traveling Attire, Cumberland Anniversary Attire, King Emeric's Diamond Regalia or any other somewhat flashier Breton style would go a long way.

Ulfsild is unique because she has a pointed wizard hat which is rare for ESO NPCs and characters post TES 2 Daggerfall in general. I know the other Breton Sage, Gyron Vardengroet, has a pointed hat, and I’d also like some cool wizard hat for Voernet or something that makes him stand out.

ZOS_JasonBarnes · April 15

We're in the process of evaluating a bunch of appearances right now and have this included! No promises about what comes of it, but we can confirm we've updated the Lion Guard Captain uniform to use the proper attire and are evaluating more stuff as we speak.

AltmerGF · April 15

Perhaps the Alessian Rebel style for the Alessian ghosts in Glenunbra Moors? Would be a good place for it too given that it drops from the new world events.

Aliyavana · April 15

AltmerGF wrote: »

Perhaps the Alessian Rebel style for the Alessian ghosts in Glenunbra Moors? Would be a good place for it too given that it drops from the new world events.

And the Balfieran Sentinel Style for the direnni ghosts

KingArthasMenethil · April 15

AltmerGF wrote: »

Perhaps the Alessian Rebel style for the Alessian ghosts in Glenunbra Moors? Would be a good place for it too given that it drops from the new world events.

I should check the ghosts there because if I recall there's an Alessian (the one you mentioned) and a Direnni style (Balfieran Sentinel).

Edit Forgot about the unique red wraith in the IC sewers with the Alessian Tombs but after checking the area's not had any updates.

Radiate77 · April 15

ZOS_JasonBarnes wrote: »

We're in the process of evaluating a bunch of appearances right now and have this included! No promises about what comes of it, but we can confirm we've updated the Lion Guard Captain uniform to use the proper attire and are evaluating more stuff as we speak.

This is huge, thank you!

As much as I love nostalgia, you guys have introduced a lot of really great styles these past couple years and it will be great to start seeing them paired with NPCs they should belong to,

TheRimOfTheSky · April 15

ZOS_JasonBarnes wrote: »

We're in the process of evaluating a bunch of appearances right now and have this included! No promises about what comes of it, but we can confirm we've updated the Lion Guard Captain uniform to use the proper attire and are evaluating more stuff as we speak.

That's awesome! While we're on the topic of refreshes in Glenumbra, could the Alessian Wraiths in Glenumbra Moors be given the more accurate red-colored Alessian model seen on wraiths in Alessian Tombs:

Also, King Casimir of Daggerfall has an old outfit from 2014 that looks rather bland by modern standards.

Could he be given a fancier outfit, perhaps the Cumberland Anniversary Attire, the Noble Suit, or something of that similar nature?
ON-costume-Cumberland_Anniversary_Attire_%28Male%29.jpg

ON-costume-Cumberland_Anniversary_Attire_%28Male%29.jpg

ZOS_JasonBarnes · April 15

Hey all!

Love the enthusiasm here, but I do want to temper expectations a bit. Our main focus right now is still anything directly tied to Season 1 content.

That said, while we’re in there we are taking a look at a few related appearances where it makes sense and time allows. So it’s less “full zone makeover” and more “targeted cleanup and evaluation.”

No promises on any specific requests just yet, but it’s definitely feedback we’ve seen and are discussing. Keep it coming 😄

shadoza · April 16

ZOS_JasonBarnes wrote: »

Hey all!

Love the enthusiasm here, but I do want to temper expectations a bit. Our main focus right now is still anything directly tied to Season 1 content.

That said, while we’re in there we are taking a look at a few related appearances where it makes sense and time allows. So it’s less “full zone makeover” and more “targeted cleanup and evaluation.”

No promises on any specific requests just yet, but it’s definitely feedback we’ve seen and are discussing. Keep it coming 😄

I feel like my post was hidden by the graphic posts. I wish to call attention to it.

"Working in the banks lower floor. I was sneaking around guards for more than 30 minutes but could not find the person I was supposed to meet. I left the game, returned later. Then I went to the vault door and found her easily. Not sure what the deal was the first time round. Maybe give her a quest icon so we can tell where she is if she goes invisible again."

ZOS_JasonBarnes · April 16

shadoza wrote: »

ZOS_JasonBarnes wrote: »

Hey all!

Love the enthusiasm here, but I do want to temper expectations a bit. Our main focus right now is still anything directly tied to Season 1 content.

That said, while we’re in there we are taking a look at a few related appearances where it makes sense and time allows. So it’s less “full zone makeover” and more “targeted cleanup and evaluation.”

No promises on any specific requests just yet, but it’s definitely feedback we’ve seen and are discussing. Keep it coming 😄

I feel like my post was hidden by the graphic posts. I wish to call attention to it.

"Working in the banks lower floor. I was sneaking around guards for more than 30 minutes but could not find the person I was supposed to meet. I left the game, returned later. Then I went to the vault door and found her easily. Not sure what the deal was the first time round. Maybe give her a quest icon so we can tell where she is if she goes invisible again."

Don't worry, it wasn't lost! We've got it noted down and are investigating it internally.

Aliyavana · April 16

Thank you for considering

shadoza · April 17

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 18

shadoza wrote: »

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

Worst part is when we canonically possess the power to just teleport wherever we want, how can a prison cell hold me when I can just tear open an Oblivion Gate right there and then?

Aliyavana · April 19

I don’t remember being caught, but i remember servants seeing through stealth and even invisibility potions.

FabresFour · April 19

Aliyavana wrote: »

Overall, I think that the writing team did an amazing job at giving what many Breton-loving players desired out of a relevant Breton mage. Reading the related books and seeing the content regarding Sage Voernet fleshes out some of the early vagueness between Direnni and the Bretons, and touches upon that early Merethic and First Era lore for them.

I am still playing through the story to form a full opinion on him, but I do have one complaint which is his physical appearance. He is a huge figure in Breton lore, yet his attire is very generic and used by many other NPCs. The robes used here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689002/is-there-a-reason-this-outfit-is-still-unavailable

Now, I'd be fine if Voernet inspired a fashion trend used by people thousands of years later and it reflected in the costume's description once it finally releases. He was a Psijic Monk afterall and these robes tend to be used by generic monk NPCs.

However, Voernet has been with the Direnni (Meretic Era), the Psijic Order (1E 20), and at minimum he was around when Wayrest had nobility (1E 1100). He lived for a long time and could go with many different styles of clothing. Though I hope he is given something unique.

Though I would not mind if he leaned towards a look as the quintessential mage in terms of appearance, like the generic mage NPC from Arena

Or the one from Daggerfall

It also looks like Voernet uses the Guild's Eye Staff style

should probably be a different style since the mages guild was not founded till 2E 230, unless Voernet lived that long.

I have to admit I agree quite a lot. I even spent some time tinkering with the game after meeting that character, trying to come up with a look for the mage Voernet that worked better for me. This was the result:

Honestly, I think the ESO team should try to make characters more visually distinct and memorable. For example, something that could look really great on Voernet is a Psijic-style facial tattoo, since that’s such a cool aspect of the Psijics that we barely see on NPCs. It would create a stronger association with them while also making him stand out.

When it comes to elite mage outfits, I’d go with the Stillrise Ritecaller set. With the helmet, it’s clearly a necromancer outfit, but without it, it becomes the attire of a powerful elite mage.

Anyway, I feel like the ESO devs could put a bit more focus on making unique characters with all the tools they have, especially when we’re talking about historical figures who stand out as much as this mage.

Maybe using effects like conjurer eyes, Psijic tattoos, or even more distinctive beards, like the Old Salt one… Honestly, the current Voernet feels like generic Breton number 4,657, and that’s a bit disappointing given how incredible ESO’s customization system is.

Aliyavana · April 19

A minor thing, but https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Librarian_Henard's_Research_Notes says "My only comfort is that Voernet's obscuring glamor will prevent the one responsible from understanding a word of it", implying that Voernet is responsible for encrypting the Codex Voernet.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Librarian_Henard's_Journal says "But I protected the tome with a spell of encryption"

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:A_Word_About_the_Lens says I encrypted the Codex Voernet to make sure its secrets remained safe.

I'm confused as to if Voernet or Henard is the one intended to be the one for encrypting the codex.

Aliyavana · April 19

I know this is outside the scope, but since Glenumbra is being updated I wanted to comment on a lore issue that has been in the game since it launched in 2014. The Ayleid ruin Enduum in Glenumbra (which is near the boat to the Sages Isle) states "The halls of lost Enduum are given a wide berth by the local Bretons, who claim that its corridors and chambers are haunted by ghosts of the ancient Ayleids who built them back in the Dawn Era"

This is wrong since the Ayleids were not in High Rock back in the Dawn Era, and was even confirmed by former loremaster, Lawrence Schick, in the following interview. https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lawrence-schick-and-phrastus-altmer-culture-0

Can you change Dawn Era to say First Era?

Freelancer_ESO · April 20

shadoza wrote: »

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

What quest did you get tossed in Prison on?

I've done the line till the bug with the staves on two characters and I didn't get thrown in prison on either character. Character A was a Nightblade that basically used invisibility to do the quests. Character B was a DK that killed every single NPC that was killable.

shadoza · April 20

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

What quest did you get tossed in Prison on?

I've done the line till the bug with the staves on two characters and I didn't get thrown in prison on either character. Character A was a Nightblade that basically used invisibility to do the quests. Character B was a DK that killed every single NPC that was killable.

The part where after you get out of the confinement, you have to kill the boss. If one does NOT have to be caught there, then I have a bug to report as I completed the objective and was heading out when the guard appeared out of nowhere and sent me to the 'prison.'

KingArthasMenethil · April 20

shadoza wrote: »

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

What quest did you get tossed in Prison on?

I've done the line till the bug with the staves on two characters and I didn't get thrown in prison on either character. Character A was a Nightblade that basically used invisibility to do the quests. Character B was a DK that killed every single NPC that was killable.

The part where after you get out of the confinement, you have to kill the boss. If one does NOT have to be caught there, then I have a bug to report as I completed the objective and was heading out when the guard appeared out of nowhere and sent me to the 'prison.'

Which quest was it? As I recall there's a timer on a part of the first one when you've finished the main objective and need to hurry things up.

KingArthasMenethil · April 21

Do we know what characters are for the below or were the changes listed for Seline?

Recurring characters have corrected their appearances.
Seline changes back to her normal outfit after completing the quest if you leave the area and come back later.

Aliyavana · April 21

Overall great story! I enjoy these more grounded stories that are not about the end of the world. I know Thieves Guild was only the introduction, but I am interested to see what more we learn of Sage Voernet's story when the Sage's Vault releases.

Aliyavana · April 22

FabresFour wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Overall, I think that the writing team did an amazing job at giving what many Breton-loving players desired out of a relevant Breton mage. Reading the related books and seeing the content regarding Sage Voernet fleshes out some of the early vagueness between Direnni and the Bretons, and touches upon that early Merethic and First Era lore for them.

I am still playing through the story to form a full opinion on him, but I do have one complaint which is his physical appearance. He is a huge figure in Breton lore, yet his attire is very generic and used by many other NPCs. The robes used here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/689002/is-there-a-reason-this-outfit-is-still-unavailable

Now, I'd be fine if Voernet inspired a fashion trend used by people thousands of years later and it reflected in the costume's description once it finally releases. He was a Psijic Monk afterall and these robes tend to be used by generic monk NPCs.

However, Voernet has been with the Direnni (Meretic Era), the Psijic Order (1E 20), and at minimum he was around when Wayrest had nobility (1E 1100). He lived for a long time and could go with many different styles of clothing. Though I hope he is given something unique.

Though I would not mind if he leaned towards a look as the quintessential mage in terms of appearance, like the generic mage NPC from Arena

Or the one from Daggerfall

It also looks like Voernet uses the Guild's Eye Staff style

should probably be a different style since the mages guild was not founded till 2E 230, unless Voernet lived that long.

I have to admit I agree quite a lot. I even spent some time tinkering with the game after meeting that character, trying to come up with a look for the mage Voernet that worked better for me. This was the result:

Honestly, I think the ESO team should try to make characters more visually distinct and memorable. For example, something that could look really great on Voernet is a Psijic-style facial tattoo, since that’s such a cool aspect of the Psijics that we barely see on NPCs. It would create a stronger association with them while also making him stand out.

When it comes to elite mage outfits, I’d go with the Stillrise Ritecaller set. With the helmet, it’s clearly a necromancer outfit, but without it, it becomes the attire of a powerful elite mage.

Anyway, I feel like the ESO devs could put a bit more focus on making unique characters with all the tools they have, especially when we’re talking about historical figures who stand out as much as this mage.

Maybe using effects like conjurer eyes, Psijic tattoos, or even more distinctive beards, like the Old Salt one… Honestly, the current Voernet feels like generic Breton number 4,657, and that’s a bit disappointing given how incredible ESO’s customization system is.

Since he is an ancestral breton, I would not mind if he used light ancestral breton if it was mixed with some other pieces.

Freelancer_ESO · April 22

I really enjoyed the quest line.

I liked how your choices could influence the outcomes a bit.

I played through the line twice and both of my characters had different experiences.

One murdered everyone that I was allowed to kill and got told off for it a fair number of times and had Seline's father die because I didn't want the Lion Guard to be involved.

One avoided killing everyone I wasn't required to kill and got the Lion Guard involved to save Seline's father and ended up failing to get one of the nowhere keys because the character didn't do enough damage to kill the guy after I failed to rob them (Amusingly the fail occurred on normal difficulty and my other character easily got the kill on Master).

Some minor quibbles:

The majority of the quest rewards are a bit underwhelming. Bahraha's Curse items aren't really all that special at this point and you can easily get items you wouldn't use during the quest line such as heavy pieces.

Quen has a warrant out for her arrest and is wearing the same thing all of the time despite having been sighted. Even the Captain Sansonme changes outfits for changing situations.

The initial pitch for the quest line while reminiscent of Skyrims is not the most appealing. Most of my characters don't really want to be called a Skeever. Most of the individual actions you commit during the quest line are things that many characters would be comfortable doing from an RP standpoint but, the actual pitch of building a Thieves Guild in the area is a bit less in ones comfort zone.

The Sommel Powder seemed to be more expensive than it was worth for most of the areas that I used to steal at. It does have a coll visual tho.

shadoza wrote: »

Freelancer_ESO wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

It seems that we are intended to get caught and tossed into a 'prison' so someone can come save us. I do not like situations were I am forced into confinement so someone else can save me. This causes a feeling of failure even when it could not be avoided. In the case of this quest line, I avoided being seen but was sent to the prison anyway as I was leaving. If she wanted extra stuffed to be stolen, she should have paid me to do it. I do not work for free and I did not want to complicate an already 'impossible' process. My first character went for the extra stuff, got caught, lost the stuff so what was the benefit?

If being caught is unavoidable by game mechanics . . .
. . . have the events show this. It is not good to allow a player to sneak through the quest only to be caught leaving by a guard that wasn't there a moment ago.
. . . create a dialogue that does not demean the player character for getting caught.
. . . Find a way to build up the street creds of the three thieves without demeaning the player's character. Some players maxed out the guild and completed the story line. Those folk deserve credit for their work.

What quest did you get tossed in Prison on?

I've done the line till the bug with the staves on two characters and I didn't get thrown in prison on either character. Character A was a Nightblade that basically used invisibility to do the quests. Character B was a DK that killed every single NPC that was killable.

The part where after you get out of the confinement, you have to kill the boss. If one does NOT have to be caught there, then I have a bug to report as I completed the objective and was heading out when the guard appeared out of nowhere and sent me to the 'prison.'

I ran the start of the quest line thru again and I finally had that happen. During that quest you have a timer. If the timer runs out, you get captured. Personally, I think it is kinda cool that even on time three I'm running into different things.