Athory wrote: »

I don’t care at all about Hardcore‑only difficulty options — I don't like it, But I can handle them.
The question is: what about the other solo/casual players?

• Stealth builds work. I can run around perma-invis.
• Mobs de-aggro. You slap on a self-heal & can often get away from most things.
• Tools offer escapes - the grapple, the lantern, the fan have all let me escape mobs.
• Spawn points inside have jump-pads (meaning you can jump to safety).
• Races can be soloed
• Puzzles are non-combat
• Both give buffs to help you out. I got an AoE damage flame the other day that let me melt mobs.

Athory wrote: »

Mattymoo92 wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

TheMightyRevan wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

Thank you for the reply. I genuinely believe this topic matters for all ESO players.
But I need to be completely direct about the issues:

1) “We wanted to try something different.”
Excluding casual/solo players from participating should never be an “experiment.”
That is not innovation, that is exclusion.
And it’s simply wrong.

2) “This was not to alienate solo players, but to add a new way to play.”
ZoS team knows better than anyone that casual/solo players will never engage with hardcore‑only difficulty.
Yet they were still used to “feed” this new experiment.
That is wrong.

3) “We are an Elder Scrolls game, but also an MMO.”
ESO has been both since day one.
So why is the core experience for casual/solo players suddenly being changed now?
This shift is unnecessary and wrong.

4) “Some event content will encourage group play.”
If this means new Trials, new Dungeons, new Arenas, or new modes with multiple difficulty options, great.
Players will absolutely welcome that.
But if the only option is Hardmode‑only, then it’s not “encouraging” group play, it’s forcing it.
And that is wrong.

5) “There are players who come for solo content and players who come for group content.”
Correct, and this has been true since launch.
Nothing about the playerbase has changed.
So why is the design philosophy suddenly shifting away from solo accessibility?
That is wrong.

6) “Players asked for renewed gameplay variety and challenge.”
Thank you for listening players.
Challenge and variety are good.
But the Night Market does not offer variety or optional challenge, it offers Hardcore‑only gameplay.
That is not what players asked for.
And it’s wrong.

7) “We will have content throughout the year for both solo and group play.”
Good. That is how ESO should be.

Well… we both know this is coming, so…

8) “The team is looking at adjustments for the current and next Night Market.”
Let’s be honest: we both know what will happen.
The zone will eventually be made easier so solo\casual players can enter, not because it respects them, but because Hardcore players finish everything quickly, get bored, and leave.
Then the remaining playerbase has no one to group with, and the zone must be “normalized” so it stays populated.
This cycle is predictable, and it is disrespectful to solo players.


No hard feelings, @ZOS_Kevin, Team ask for feedback, and the only way I can give it is by being 100% direct and honest.


EDIT:
Next time ZOS decides to use casual players as fuel for hardcore content, then at least balance it out, make hardcore players serve as fuel to support normal content as well. Casual and new players would absolutely love to see that kind of fairness.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Could I do better? Wth, of course I can do better. I’m pretty sure I can craft anything.
But you completely missed the whole point of this fight again.
I don’t care at all about Hardcore‑only difficulty options — I don't like it, But I can handle them.
The question is: what about the other solo/casual players?

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

• Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
• Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

To answer the core questions asked:

Q: Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
A: No.

Q:Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
A: No.

Just following up here generally. We hear the feedback from solo players about the Night Market content. We want to follow up with just few things.

We have no intention of pushing solo players out of the game. However, we started this year off by noting that we were going to try some new things. Night Market is one of them. While we always provide group players with trials, we also wanted to try something different. This was not to alienate solo players, but rather to add a new way to play. That being said, we do hear the feedback and have passed that on our teams for future consideration, especially for when Night Market comes back later in the year. Remember, part of the ethos of this event is to add to it over time.

As several have noted in this thread as well, we have a roadmap that is publicly available. The point of the roadmap is to showcase the content we have coming throughout the year. As is noted on the roadmap and current PTS testing, we have plenty of solo friendly content as well. Thieves Guild and Sheogorath Questlines, Favors system, Rumors system, Two Solo Dungeons, Sage's Vault, and the list can keep going. And that is all on top of existing content. We also understand that not every piece of content will be for everyone, and that is okay.

We know this may come off as a contentious statement, but it does bare repeating. While we are an Elder Scrolls game, we are also an MMO. Storytelling and the heart of solo adventure will always be an important part of ESO. However, some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play. It is the nature of the genre. Additionally, we know just like there are players who come for solo content, there are also players who come for group content and challenging group content. So we want to make sure we are providing new things for them as well.

We'll close with this. Last year, we saw many threads throughout the year asking us to address content and find new ways of renewing the gameplay experience, both in variety and challenge. We are in the first passes of this now with items like Night Market going live. But we will have content throughout the year to address both solo and group play within the community. The feedback is helpful to steer us on the right track. So thanks to everyone, both solo players and group players, who have given their constructive feedback regarding the Night Market. The team is taking a look at what can be done during this current running and what can be adjusted for the next run of the Night Market.

@ZOS_Kevin - I just really want to shout-out this statement and the willingness here to "let yourselves cook" - I think the tweaks from PTS were sufficient and I really do think Night Market is well balanced minus the Skirmishes being a TOUCH too long.

I plan to write a longer more detailed post in the future, but my guild is a 500 person guild on PC-NA. Our guild is called <Chill Vibes> and is VERY casual/social focused. It's solo players that largely like to group up for socialization, not content. We don't run Vet Trials or Vet Dungeons.

I provide all this context to say that this has been by far the most i've ever seen my guild engage with an event /despite/ it's difficulty. We have had 4+ 12 man groups running the Night Market every day. It is the most engaged that I have seen the guild in a Elder Scrolls event and it is the best event I have seen for socialization and engagement.

While I have a lot of feedback to write about some of the implementation (key's getting deleted each time and requiring 6 ardents and 3 dungeons just to do the Trial again? Not casual friendly) - the guildies LOVE the difficulty and the fact that it requires /socialization/ to do content.

In an era where MMO's are trending toward "Solo+" experiences (see SW:TOR) seeing content that significantly encourages Group Finder activity (which is largely dead outside of night market and trials) is /really/ lovely.

As a casual who lead a guild of casuals, please don't tweak down the difficulty too much or make this /too/ solo-friendly. This is actually making ESO feel like an MMO and really harkens back to the feeling of Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot, which was one of my personal favorite zones.

So, not every solo/casual player hates this, just want to throw that out there against the sea of negativity.

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Athory wrote: »

• Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
• Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?

To answer the core questions asked:

Q: Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
A: No.

Q:Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
A: No.

Just following up here generally. We hear the feedback from solo players about the Night Market content. We want to follow up with just few things.

We have no intention of pushing solo players out of the game. However, we started this year off by noting that we were going to try some new things. Night Market is one of them. While we always provide group players with trials, we also wanted to try something different. This was not to alienate solo players, but rather to add a new way to play. That being said, we do hear the feedback and have passed that on our teams for future consideration, especially for when Night Market comes back later in the year. Remember, part of the ethos of this event is to add to it over time.

As several have noted in this thread as well, we have a roadmap that is publicly available. The point of the roadmap is to showcase the content we have coming throughout the year. As is noted on the roadmap and current PTS testing, we have plenty of solo friendly content as well. Thieves Guild and Sheogorath Questlines, Favors system, Rumors system, Two Solo Dungeons, Sage's Vault, and the list can keep going. And that is all on top of existing content. We also understand that not every piece of content will be for everyone, and that is okay.

We know this may come off as a contentious statement, but it does bare repeating. While we are an Elder Scrolls game, we are also an MMO. Storytelling and the heart of solo adventure will always be an important part of ESO. However, some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play. It is the nature of the genre. Additionally, we know just like there are players who come for solo content, there are also players who come for group content and challenging group content. So we want to make sure we are providing new things for them as well.

We'll close with this. Last year, we saw many threads throughout the year asking us to address content and find new ways of renewing the gameplay experience, both in variety and challenge. We are in the first passes of this now with items like Night Market going live. But we will have content throughout the year to address both solo and group play within the community. The feedback is helpful to steer us on the right track. So thanks to everyone, both solo players and group players, who have given their constructive feedback regarding the Night Market. The team is taking a look at what can be done during this current running and what can be adjusted for the next run of the Night Market.

@ZOS_Kevin - I just really want to shout-out this statement and the willingness here to "let yourselves cook" - I think the tweaks from PTS were sufficient and I really do think Night Market is well balanced minus the Skirmishes being a TOUCH too long.

I plan to write a longer more detailed post in the future, but my guild is a 500 person guild on PC-NA. Our guild is called <Chill Vibes> and is VERY casual/social focused. It's solo players that largely like to group up for socialization, not content. We don't run Vet Trials or Vet Dungeons.

I provide all this context to say that this has been by far the most i've ever seen my guild engage with an event /despite/ it's difficulty. We have had 4+ 12 man groups running the Night Market every day. It is the most engaged that I have seen the guild in a Elder Scrolls event and it is the best event I have seen for socialization and engagement.

While I have a lot of feedback to write about some of the implementation (key's getting deleted each time and requiring 6 ardents and 3 dungeons just to do the Trial again? Not casual friendly) - the guildies LOVE the difficulty and the fact that it requires /socialization/ to do content.

In an era where MMO's are trending toward "Solo+" experiences (see SW:TOR) seeing content that significantly encourages Group Finder activity (which is largely dead outside of night market and trials) is /really/ lovely.

As a casual who lead a guild of casuals, please don't tweak down the difficulty too much or make this /too/ solo-friendly. This is actually making ESO feel like an MMO and really harkens back to the feeling of Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot, which was one of my personal favorite zones.

So, not every solo/casual player hates this, just want to throw that out there against the sea of negativity.

Athory wrote: »

Point 1

• https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home

THIS IS ESO
Go anywhere, do anything, and play your way in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Point 2

• The Night Market - Event Zone - The Elder Scrolls Online

So… are solo players excluded?

✔ From the core gameplay loop? Yes. The entire progression loop — bosses → keys → Gilded → Ordeal — is group‑only.
✔ From the rewards? Yes, indirectly. You can earn Favor solo, but at a tiny fraction of the speed and with massive difficulty spikes.
✔ From the intended experience? Absolutely. The zone is literally described as a “group‑focused PvE world”


The uncomfortable truth
ESO has always had:

• normal dungeons
• normal trials
• normal arenas
• normal world bosses
• normal story content
• Night Market breaks that 10‑year rule.

There is no normal mode.
No scaling.
No solo‑friendly version.
No alternative path.
If you don’t group, you simply cannot participate in the main loop.
This is why so many players, especially casuals, solo mains, and accessibility‑focused players, feel pushed out.

yes: solo players are excluded

So how do these two things fit together?
They don’t. It’s like saying: You can play your way…except here, where you must play our way.

Night Market is the first time ESO has:

• no normal mode
• no solo‑friendly version
• no scaling
• no alternative path
• no accessibility options
• no “play your way” philosophy

It’s a hardcore‑only event zone inside a game that advertises freedom.

4. Why this contradiction exists
Because: Marketing wants ESO to stay “play your way” They can’t change the slogan. It’s the identity of the franchise.
IT'S WRONG!

Athory wrote: »

Point 1

• https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/home

THIS IS ESO
Go anywhere, do anything, and play your way in The Elder Scrolls Online, the award-winning online RPG set in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Point 2

• The Night Market - Event Zone - The Elder Scrolls Online

So… are solo players excluded?

✔ From the core gameplay loop? Yes. The entire progression loop — bosses → keys → Gilded → Ordeal — is group‑only.
✔ From the rewards? Yes, indirectly. You can earn Favor solo, but at a tiny fraction of the speed and with massive difficulty spikes.
✔ From the intended experience? Absolutely. The zone is literally described as a “group‑focused PvE world”


The uncomfortable truth
ESO has always had:

• normal dungeons
• normal trials
• normal arenas
• normal world bosses
• normal story content
• Night Market breaks that 10‑year rule.

There is no normal mode.
No scaling.
No solo‑friendly version.
No alternative path.
If you don’t group, you simply cannot participate in the main loop.
This is why so many players, especially casuals, solo mains, and accessibility‑focused players, feel pushed out.

yes: solo players are excluded

So how do these two things fit together?
They don’t. It’s like saying: You can play your way…except here, where you must play our way.

Night Market is the first time ESO has:

• no normal mode
• no solo‑friendly version
• no scaling
• no alternative path
• no accessibility options
• no “play your way” philosophy

It’s a hardcore‑only event zone inside a game that advertises freedom.

4. Why this contradiction exists
Because: Marketing wants ESO to stay “play your way” They can’t change the slogan. It’s the identity of the franchise.
IT'S WRONG!