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Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
Thank you for the reply. I genuinely believe this topic matters for all ESO players.
But I need to be completely direct about the issues:
1) “We wanted to try something different.”
Excluding casual/solo players from participating should never be an “experiment.”
That is not innovation, that is exclusion.
And it’s simply wrong.
2) “This was not to alienate solo players, but to add a new way to play.”
ZoS team knows better than anyone that casual/solo players will never engage with hardcore‑only difficulty.
Yet they were still used to “feed” this new experiment.
That is wrong.
3) “We are an Elder Scrolls game, but also an MMO.”
ESO has been both since day one.
So why is the core experience for casual/solo players suddenly being changed now?
This shift is unnecessary and wrong.
4) “Some event content will encourage group play.”
If this means new Trials, new Dungeons, new Arenas, or new modes with multiple difficulty options, great.
Players will absolutely welcome that.
But if the only option is Hardmode‑only, then it’s not “encouraging” group play, it’s forcing it.
And that is wrong.
5) “There are players who come for solo content and players who come for group content.”
Correct, and this has been true since launch.
Nothing about the playerbase has changed.
So why is the design philosophy suddenly shifting away from solo accessibility?
That is wrong.
6) “Players asked for renewed gameplay variety and challenge.”
Thank you for listening players.
Challenge and variety are good.
But the Night Market does not offer variety or optional challenge, it offers Hardcore‑only gameplay.
That is not what players asked for.
And it’s wrong.
7) “We will have content throughout the year for both solo and group play.”
Good. That is how ESO should be.
Well… we both know this is coming, so…
8) “The team is looking at adjustments for the current and next Night Market.”
Let’s be honest: we both know what will happen.
The zone will eventually be made easier so solo\casual players can enter, not because it respects them, but because Hardcore players finish everything quickly, get bored, and leave.
Then the remaining playerbase has no one to group with, and the zone must be “normalized” so it stays populated.
This cycle is predictable, and it is disrespectful to solo players.
No hard feelings, @ZOS_Kevin, Team ask for feedback, and the only way I can give it is by being 100% direct and honest.
EDIT:
Next time ZOS decides to use casual players as fuel for hardcore content, then at least balance it out, make hardcore players serve as fuel to support normal content as well. Casual and new players would absolutely love to see that kind of fairness.
But I need to be completely direct about the issues:
1) “We wanted to try something different.”
Excluding casual/solo players from participating should never be an “experiment.”
That is not innovation, that is exclusion.
And it’s simply wrong.
2) “This was not to alienate solo players, but to add a new way to play.”
ZoS team knows better than anyone that casual/solo players will never engage with hardcore‑only difficulty.
Yet they were still used to “feed” this new experiment.
That is wrong.
3) “We are an Elder Scrolls game, but also an MMO.”
ESO has been both since day one.
So why is the core experience for casual/solo players suddenly being changed now?
This shift is unnecessary and wrong.
4) “Some event content will encourage group play.”
If this means new Trials, new Dungeons, new Arenas, or new modes with multiple difficulty options, great.
Players will absolutely welcome that.
But if the only option is Hardmode‑only, then it’s not “encouraging” group play, it’s forcing it.
And that is wrong.
5) “There are players who come for solo content and players who come for group content.”
Correct, and this has been true since launch.
Nothing about the playerbase has changed.
So why is the design philosophy suddenly shifting away from solo accessibility?
That is wrong.
6) “Players asked for renewed gameplay variety and challenge.”
Thank you for listening players.
Challenge and variety are good.
But the Night Market does not offer variety or optional challenge, it offers Hardcore‑only gameplay.
That is not what players asked for.
And it’s wrong.
7) “We will have content throughout the year for both solo and group play.”
Good. That is how ESO should be.
Well… we both know this is coming, so…
8) “The team is looking at adjustments for the current and next Night Market.”
Let’s be honest: we both know what will happen.
The zone will eventually be made easier so solo\casual players can enter, not because it respects them, but because Hardcore players finish everything quickly, get bored, and leave.
Then the remaining playerbase has no one to group with, and the zone must be “normalized” so it stays populated.
This cycle is predictable, and it is disrespectful to solo players.
No hard feelings, @ZOS_Kevin, Team ask for feedback, and the only way I can give it is by being 100% direct and honest.
EDIT:
Next time ZOS decides to use casual players as fuel for hardcore content, then at least balance it out, make hardcore players serve as fuel to support normal content as well. Casual and new players would absolutely love to see that kind of fairness.
Athory
6
Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
You’re 100% wrong. I play the game every day, and every time I join… trials\dungeons. xD
Because the objectives there are the same for everyone: finish, get loot.
I refuse to “feed” your [snip] market just to make things easier for "you" by grouping with "you".
You like it? You like HardCore? That’s your problem, solve it yourself.
I’m perfectly happy not feeling like I’m being used. Very happy, actually.
if you play every day, have done at least one trial, and think the night market is "hardcore", this is 100% a skill issue on your part
TFPAcer
14
Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
This is an absurd and entitled overreaction to the standard q1 group content release cycle, but I can see there is no getting through to you. ZOS has been very transparent about everything else they are planning to release this year that is aimed at solo players and you have chosen to not seek out that information before venting on the forums.
Asking for a normal difficulty version of night market to be more friendly to solo players is also ignorant to the fact that many normal difficulty instances are not solo friendly either by design. This is not a flaw.
You play an mmo that has catered for a very long time to militant solo players. God forbid the multiplayer aspect be important.
Asking for a normal difficulty version of night market to be more friendly to solo players is also ignorant to the fact that many normal difficulty instances are not solo friendly either by design. This is not a flaw.
You play an mmo that has catered for a very long time to militant solo players. God forbid the multiplayer aspect be important.
CaptainRele
11
Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
You weren't excluded - you're excluding yourself. Much of the content can be soloed.Excluding casual/solo players from participating should never be an “experiment.”
You might be more interested in watching streamers play the game, since you seem to just want to watch the content without earning it.
It is a pity you have such revulsion at joining in comradery with others, that you seem to confuse an MMO with a single-player game.ZoS team knows better than anyone that casual/solo players will never engage with hardcore‑only difficulty.
Correct! It is an MMO set in the TES setting. Being a TES game doesn't exclude multi-player, guilds, teamwork.ESO has been both since day one.
There's no Hardmode/Vet in the Night Market. It's comparable to a sort of freeform Trial (easier actually since we have the liberty to run around, explore, escape).But if the only option is Hardmode‑only, then it’s not “encouraging” group play, it’s forcing it.
It hasn't, this just isn't solo content. You seem to think group-content is mandated to take a specific shape.So why is the design philosophy suddenly shifting away from solo accessibility?
Incorrect.But the Night Market does not offer variety or optional challenge, it offers Hardcore‑only gameplay.
You can sneak past many mob squads and/or run & self-heal.
Each zone has different mini-games, different layouts, different challenges.
I think I like it better than Trials - it's a breath of fresh air to see such an amazingly diverse group zone.
There's a strange entitlement here - but it's a group zone, not a single-player zone. And if you have so much disdain for group-content - then why does it sound you want anyone to group with?The zone will eventually be made easier so solo\casual players can enter, not because it respects them, but because Hardcore players finish everything quickly, get bored, and leave. Then the remaining playerbase has no one to group with, and the zone must be “normalized” so it stays populated. This cycle is predictable, and it is disrespectful to solo players.
It's just like Trials or Vet Dungeons - designed to encourage group play. Even the recipe fragments are faction-locked (meaning you need to trade with rival factions if you want to unlock it sooner). The Opulent Ordeal trial is especially group-oriented, as you carry the torch to other teams (you can't solo it). The 3 "Dungeon" Bosses are also group-oriented (their mechanics often need another player to liberate you).
It's all teamwork.
What does this even mean? lmaoNext time ZOS decides to use casual players as fuel for hardcore content, then at least balance it out, make hardcore players serve as fuel to support normal content as well. Casual and new players would absolutely love to see that kind of fairness.
End-game players do normal content all the time. A better comparison would be PVP (which should also get PVP-specific content, they're like 2% of all the zones).
The response you've gotten from others should make clear that you're being hyperbolic. The Night Market is great.
Guild spamming is back I guess
Been watching this account while waiting for a Battlegrounds to pop and I notice that after every couple of mins it will will move left and right.
I don't get invites since I am blacklisted (lol) but I'm sure if I go make a new account and go to Vulkhel guard I will be invited.
Same guild, fresh level 4 character/account. Gotta be a joke at this rate!
Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Pot meet kettle.
All your "arguments" have been that the new content is excluding solo players, which is being disingenuous at best.
In reality, this content isn't "excluding" anyone. There are no requirements, no hard Champ Point limits, no required group size.
You are excluding yourself by not wanting to engage with the content.
This is not "hard-core only" content. If it was, I wouldn't be having a blast playing with my "noob" cousin that hasn't played ESO since Summerset.
You’re 100% wrong. I play the game every day, and every time I join… trials\dungeons. xD
Because the objectives there are the same for everyone: finish, get loot.
I refuse to “feed” your [snip] market just to make things easier for "you" by grouping with "you".
You like it? You like HardCore? That’s your problem, solve it yourself.
I’m perfectly happy not feeling like I’m being used. Very happy, actually.
What are you even talking about at this point lmao
Everyone has the same objective in NM: kill stuff, earn favor.
Re: Concerns About ESO’s Future Direction and Solo Player Experience
- Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
- Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
To answer the core questions asked:
Q: Does ZoS have plans to turn ESO into something like a Dark Souls-style game?
A: No.
Q:Do they have any plan to push solo players out of the game?
A: No.
Just following up here generally. We hear the feedback from solo players about the Night Market content. We want to follow up with just few things.
We have no intention of pushing solo players out of the game. However, we started this year off by noting that we were going to try some new things. Night Market is one of them. While we always provide group players with trials, we also wanted to try something different. This was not to alienate solo players, but rather to add a new way to play. That being said, we do hear the feedback and have passed that on our teams for future consideration, especially for when Night Market comes back later in the year. Remember, part of the ethos of this event is to add to it over time.
As several have noted in this thread as well, we have a roadmap that is publicly available. The point of the roadmap is to showcase the content we have coming throughout the year. As is noted on the roadmap and current PTS testing, we have plenty of solo friendly content as well. Thieves Guild and Sheogorath Questlines, Favors system, Rumors system, Two Solo Dungeons, Sage's Vault, and the list can keep going. And that is all on top of existing content. We also understand that not every piece of content will be for everyone, and that is okay.
We know this may come off as a contentious statement, but it does bare repeating. While we are an Elder Scrolls game, we are also an MMO. Storytelling and the heart of solo adventure will always be an important part of ESO. However, some of our event/ event zone content will be focused on encouraging group play. It is the nature of the genre. Additionally, we know just like there are players who come for solo content, there are also players who come for group content and challenging group content. So we want to make sure we are providing new things for them as well.
We'll close with this. Last year, we saw many threads throughout the year asking us to address content and find new ways of renewing the gameplay experience, both in variety and challenge. We are in the first passes of this now with items like Night Market going live. But we will have content throughout the year to address both solo and group play within the community. The feedback is helpful to steer us on the right track. So thanks to everyone, both solo players and group players, who have given their constructive feedback regarding the Night Market. The team is taking a look at what can be done during this current running and what can be adjusted for the next run of the Night Market.
@ZOS_Kevin - I just really want to shout-out this statement and the willingness here to "let yourselves cook" - I think the tweaks from PTS were sufficient and I really do think Night Market is well balanced minus the Skirmishes being a TOUCH too long.
I plan to write a longer more detailed post in the future, but my guild is a 500 person guild on PC-NA. Our guild is called <Chill Vibes> and is VERY casual/social focused. It's solo players that largely like to group up for socialization, not content. We don't run Vet Trials or Vet Dungeons.
I provide all this context to say that this has been by far the most i've ever seen my guild engage with an event /despite/ it's difficulty. We have had 4+ 12 man groups running the Night Market every day. It is the most engaged that I have seen the guild in a Elder Scrolls event and it is the best event I have seen for socialization and engagement.
While I have a lot of feedback to write about some of the implementation (key's getting deleted each time and requiring 6 ardents and 3 dungeons just to do the Trial again? Not casual friendly) - the guildies LOVE the difficulty and the fact that it requires /socialization/ to do content.
In an era where MMO's are trending toward "Solo+" experiences (see SW:TOR) seeing content that significantly encourages Group Finder activity (which is largely dead outside of night market and trials) is /really/ lovely.
As a casual who lead a guild of casuals, please don't tweak down the difficulty too much or make this /too/ solo-friendly. This is actually making ESO feel like an MMO and really harkens back to the feeling of Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot, which was one of my personal favorite zones.
So, not every solo/casual player hates this, just want to throw that out there against the sea of negativity.
Re: Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?
SilverBride wrote: »If the Night Market is what we get in place of new dungeons then why is there just a difficult mode? Every dungeon and trial and arena have both normal and veteran modes. Why does the Night Market not have the same? Why was the typical way to present group content changed for this?
Only having a difficult mode excludes a lot of players from being able to participate. Adding a normal difficulty would help a lot more players be able to participate.
This is the "normal" mode for Night Market.
There's only one "mode".
This is group content.
They aren't going to make all the people happy, some will not like how things are, some will.
If they made it easier, you'd have a bunch of people complaining about how easy it is.
sshogrin
1
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for New Item Sets
Can we PLEASE get an update to Aetheric Lancer to remove the “go locate the circle and deal damage” aspect? It has always been unplayable to use for a number of reasons.
Would truly love if this would just fire like Null Arca (or something else creative). The other IA sets are getting tremendous updates. Would really love to be able to go full Templar and have a reason to wear the sets we grinded for months.
Yes please! I'm fine with the damage from the proc being weaker than Null Arca, since it includes the 300 WSD, but the circle is annoying to play around
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for New Item Sets
Can we PLEASE get an update to Aetheric Lancer to remove the “go locate the circle and deal damage” aspect? It has always been unplayable to use for a number of reasons.
Would truly love if this would just fire like Null Arca (or something else creative). The other IA sets are getting tremendous updates. Would really love to be able to go full Templar and have a reason to wear the sets we grinded for months.
Would truly love if this would just fire like Null Arca (or something else creative). The other IA sets are getting tremendous updates. Would really love to be able to go full Templar and have a reason to wear the sets we grinded for months.
Thal
1