Broken Talons in Dragon Knights Online

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Wifeaggro13‌

With all do respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. This is probably the best ability in the game, PvE and PvP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXdLy3KYmWc

Nah nord i dont like it . juggling with Volcanic rune is much better for Grouping , and he is successfull due to banner and light armor Magica battery spamming inhale and green dragon blood heals he could probably do that encounter with out Talons. none of the stuff is possible with out the light armor set he is using. Truthfully i dont care what they do with talons i hardly use it in dungeons LOS juggle clumping and AOEing is far more effective . But thats my opinion some like to spam that dumb thing and be tapped in heavy armor . Its not an effective nor reasonble strat for lets say the Big ole fire titan and his adds in Elden hollow VR. Personaly i think the ability is over rated.

Travail · May 2014

Bolt Escape is fine because there are a few counters to it, most of which require split-second timing.

Talons is OH-MY-GOD-NERF-IT-NOW-NOW-NOW!!!! even though the counter to Talons is... stand 9 meters away from the DK.

Don't get me wrong, I think we need to be able to gain immunity to roots in some way. I couldn't be more in agreement with NordJitsu on the subject of how to go about balancing Talons. But, when you think about it, every class in the game -nearly every single skill line in the game (other than healing skill lines)- has some sort of root/snare/knockdown/stun to deal with a skill that can only be used at short range. And yet, according to NordJitsu:

"(Talons) is probably the best ability in the game, PvE and PvP."

The irony is thick in this thread, is all I'm saying.

-Travail.

Obscure · May 2014

@‌Wifeaggro13
Again completely subjective foolishness: It costs over 400 magic for you to cast. No one wearing full light is paying over 400 to cast it. In PvE it's never broken, because the AI is remarkably stupid. In PvP gap closing is as simple as one keystroke and reapplication is as simple as one more keystroke. It doesn't "only root" it also deals damage and can reduce attacker damage or deal damage over time.

And yes I have done VR dungeons and I never go without my Broken Talons. Particularly useful in Grotto. I'm not "pissed" at all, I rolled a DK from the beginning (PTS, BWE's, the whole nine), and enjoy having made the "correct" class choice. I get a special sadistic satisfaction when I see the rage towards my chosen class...unfortunately I have am inability to suspend my ability to see reason and logic.

Everything else comes off as very "in your opinion", and yeah you're entitled to that opinion. Maybe a DR system could work, maybe not. Lots of ways to redesign things, and none of them are ever perfect.

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

Obscure wrote: »

@‌Wifeaggro13
Again completely subjective foolishness: It costs over 400 magic for you to cast. No one wearing full light is paying over 400 to cast it. In PvE it's never broken, because the AI is remarkably stupid. In PvP gap closing is as simple as one keystroke and reapplication is as simple as one more keystroke. It doesn't "only root" it also deals damage and can reduce attacker damage or deal damage over time...though judging by your uninformed opinion I'd guess reading comprehension was never your cup of tea, so those tool tips may as well be written in Cantonese.

You are not stating facts, those are subjective observations without any practical understanding of the mechanics involved being presented as facts due to an inability for your ego to accept that anyone could possibly have a better understanding than yourself. I understand, that's how ignorance works. Magical rainbow space unicorns bro, my argument stands.

And yes I have done VR dungeons and I never go without my Broken Talons. Particularly useful in Grotto. I'm not "pissed" at all, I rolled a DK from the beginning (PTS, BWE's, the whole nine), and enjoy having made the "correct" class choice. I get a special sadistic satisfaction when I see the rage towards my chosen class...unfortunately I have am inability to suspend my ability to see reason and logic.

Everything else comes off as very "in your opinion", and yeah you're entitled to that opinion. Maybe a DR system could work, maybe not. Lots of ways to redesign things, and none of them are ever perfect. Though in regard to things of which you have no effin' clue on, maybe do some light reading of those 14 other pages in this thread, let it bounce around your head a bit and then formulate an objective opinion based in facts.

Ahh that answers it then your using the Light armor sets . As for being a Private tester that failed to inform Zos you could have endless supplies of magica with a certain gear sets thats unfortunate Did you also inform them of the banner exploit?. Broken talons will get a nerf .probably have the damage removed and obviously limit it to three as did inhale. And as i said i would rather LOS those grotto trash pulls into runes amd spam juggle lol. Also trying to bait me into a flame war by insulting me is a poor choice. Have a nice day , also 30% miss works wonders on the 4 adds after ritual no spamming required.

Malmai · May 2014

What the hell i can cast Talons 2 times and then im almost out of magicka if this is for you spam than it must be something with me or what ?

ZOS_JasonI · May 2014

Greetings, everyone. While we encourage players to engage in thoughtful discussions, we ask that all comments on our forums are kept respectful, and constructive. It is never okay to personally attack other players for their opinions, as stated in our Code of Conduct. Please keep the conversation on-topic. Thank you!

vicNBitis · May 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Talons is not great people need to get it through their head. because people have trouble with it in pvp just like bolt escape . Its completely meh in pve it has very little range costs a crap load to cast. The most effcient cc in game is volcanic rune . I rarely use talons while tanking,its simply a waste. And the reason people will use Dk for trials has nothing to do with talons.its because of our survivability.its the only real plus to a dk. All this crying over Dk's in light armor with resto staff builds has very little to do with the class. Its the gear combos that make them over powered.
The most over looked issue is the utter and complete bull crap condition of the melee lines. It really is pushing the community to these exploit builds and DK is not the only one that has them. As for hitting to many targets well it should if they are gonna throw 20 f ing trash mobs at 4players with no real ranged Cc. All your complaints to change stuff to accomadate Pvp will ruin alot of end game Pve

If, as you say, talons is inferior to rune it should be pretty easy to get some video of DKs in public dungeons using it. Right....?

RazzPitazz · May 2014

vicNBitis wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Talons is not great people need to get it through their head. because people have trouble with it in pvp just like bolt escape . Its completely meh in pve it has very little range costs a crap load to cast. The most effcient cc in game is volcanic rune . I rarely use talons while tanking,its simply a waste. And the reason people will use Dk for trials has nothing to do with talons.its because of our survivability.its the only real plus to a dk. All this crying over Dk's in light armor with resto staff builds has very little to do with the class. Its the gear combos that make them over powered.
The most over looked issue is the utter and complete bull crap condition of the melee lines. It really is pushing the community to these exploit builds and DK is not the only one that has them. As for hitting to many targets well it should if they are gonna throw 20 f ing trash mobs at 4players with no real ranged Cc. All your complaints to change stuff to accomadate Pvp will ruin alot of end game Pve

If, as you say, talons is inferior to rune it should be pretty easy to get some video of DKs in public dungeons using it. Right....?

Because every one records their gameplay. Its standard *budum bum*

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

vicNBitis wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Talons is not great people need to get it through their head. because people have trouble with it in pvp just like bolt escape . Its completely meh in pve it has very little range costs a crap load to cast. The most effcient cc in game is volcanic rune . I rarely use talons while tanking,its simply a waste. And the reason people will use Dk for trials has nothing to do with talons.its because of our survivability.its the only real plus to a dk. All this crying over Dk's in light armor with resto staff builds has very little to do with the class. Its the gear combos that make them over powered.
The most over looked issue is the utter and complete bull crap condition of the melee lines. It really is pushing the community to these exploit builds and DK is not the only one that has them. As for hitting to many targets well it should if they are gonna throw 20 f ing trash mobs at 4players with no real ranged Cc. All your complaints to change stuff to accomadate Pvp will ruin alot of end game Pve

If, as you say, talons is inferior to rune it should be pretty easy to get some video of DKs in public dungeons using it. Right....?

My @name is the same want me to show you? I wont use talons at all matter of fact ill take you on a fg run ill maybe use talons on one trash pull.

vicNBitis · May 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

My @name is the same want me to show you? I wont use talons at all matter of fact ill take you on a fg run ill maybe use talons on one trash pull.

Oh I have no doubt you use it in dungeons. Do you also use it while AOE grinding zombies? I'm guessing no. I've seen plenty of templars and sorcerers using it but that's only because, I'm guessing, they don't have talons.

FrauPerchta · May 2014

If the Devs nerfed everything folks whine about we'd have to resort to mudcrab throwing as our only weapon. Of course then folks would call for a nerf on mudcrabs

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

vicNBitis wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

My @name is the same want me to show you? I wont use talons at all matter of fact ill take you on a fg run ill maybe use talons on one trash pull.

Oh I have no doubt you use it in dungeons. Do you also use it while AOE grinding zombies? I'm guessing no. I've seen plenty of templars and sorcerers using it but that's only because, I'm guessing, they don't have talons.

Lol yes i do matter o fact

Travail · May 2014

Talons is undoubtedly easier to use than Volcanic Rune. There's no targeting required, it has a greater radius, it casts instantly (VR takes a half-second to arm, nevermind the fact that it takes two keystrokes to place.) Volcanic Rune can also simply be blocked in PvP (and the blue light is easy to see coming.)

Volcanic Rune is exactly what it should be: a powerful CC that requires a skill shot, and one which skilled players can counter easily (block, break-out, Immovable.)

What Talons should be is a less powerful CC (root versus knockdown) which takes less skill to use. Unfortunately, right now roots are arguably the best CC in PvP due to the lack of immunity to them (and roots act exactly like stuns on melee NPCs), and the large radius (and unlimited targets) of Talons gives it a clear advantage over other AoE CC's in the game.

They are looking at the unlimited targets issue, but that won't be enough on it's own (I'm not a fan of AoE caps, anyway.) What we need is a way to properly and reliably counter the skill. Namely, a way to gain immunity to roots, placing them on par with every other type of CC.

-Travail.

Rundarek · May 2014

Don't know if it is changed on the PTS, but on NPCs a root only holds them in Place, it does not lock the direction they are facing. You can of course walk behind them but they will just turn around to face and hit you.

NordJitsu · May 2014

You are now immune to immobilizing effects during the time you are roll dodging, in addition to breaking out of existing effects when you begin the roll dodge.

Win.

Dark Talons:
This ability can now damage monsters with snare immunity.
Fixed an issue where allies were not able to activate the synergy from Dark Talons.

Reduced the overall radius.

Win.

Thread is win.

Faith in humanity restored.

Thank you ZOS.

Maverick827 · May 2014

The radius nerf is an unfortunate PvE nerf due to to PvP complaints. I wish we could have avoided such things.

crislevin · May 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

The radius nerf is an unfortunate PvE nerf due to to PvP complaints. I wish we could have avoided such things.

impulse is also nerfed, double whammy to AoE (esp, DK)

NordJitsu · May 2014

@Maverick827‌

While I personally don't care how powerful it is in PvE (since its not affecting me competitively) I do understand their reasoning there as well.

This skill was OP in PvP and PvE.

Any of the videos you see with DKs solo'ing ridiculous things they're always using Talons to lock down a gagillion and one mobs at the same time.

Maverick827 · May 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Maverick827‌

While I personally don't care how powerful it is in PvE (since its not affecting me competitively) I do understand their reasoning there as well.

This skill was OP in PvP and PvE.

Any of the videos you see with DKs solo'ing ridiculous things they're always using Talons to lock down a gagillion and one mobs at the same time.

But now that's not an issue because of the target cap, so there was no need for the radius nerf.

NordJitsu · May 2014

@Maverick827‌

But mobs are so dumb they'll still come right on top of you. Just aggro them and then bring them to you. They're not smart enough to stand 5 meters away. They press right up on you.

Maverick827 · May 2014

There's more to PvE than soloing.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

ZOS_JasonL wrote: »

Greetings, everyone. While we encourage players to engage in thoughtful discussions, we ask that all comments on our forums are kept respectful, and constructive. It is never okay to personally attack other players for their opinions, as stated in our Code of Conduct. Please keep the conversation on-topic. Thank you!

So is it okay to attack myself for my own opinions?

Obscure · May 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

There's more to PvE than soloing.

The AI in all aspects of PvE are remarkably stupid. The raw stupidity of the AI is to a degree that even their own self preservation does not register to them. "Giant Burning standard of fire spat forth from the sky? Nothing to fear! I'll just stand in it and get spammed with other AoE's. Couldn't possibly end poorly for me!"
They don't dodge, they don't stun break, they behave exactly the same regardless of what you're doing to them. You move out if the range of a static NPC or go invisible, and the AI will stand there like that chic from Titanic saying "I'll never let go Jack!". They are the whole lot of them dumber than chickens, and chickens are known to stare at the sky with their mouths open when it rains until they drown (I *** you not. True story).

Did they need to Nerf the AoE range? IMO, no, they didn't. But seriously the AI will not be anymore effective than a spounge either way...no offense to the spounge.

Maverick827 · May 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

There's more to PvE than soloing.

The AI in all aspects of PvE are remarkably stupid. The raw stupidity of the AI is to a degree that even their own self preservation does not register to them. "Giant Burning standard of fire spat forth from the sky? Nothing to fear! I'll just stand in it and get spammed with other AoE's. Couldn't possibly end poorly for me!"
They don't dodge, they don't stun break, they behave exactly the same regardless of what you're doing to them. You move out if the range of a static NPC or go invisible, and the AI will stand there like that chic from Titanic saying "I'll never let go Jack!". They are the whole lot of them dumber than chickens, and chickens are known to stare at the sky with their mouths open when it rains until they drown (I *** you not. True story).

Did they need to Nerf the AoE range? IMO, no, they didn't. But seriously the AI will not be anymore effective than a spounge either way...no offense to the spounge.

There actually is AI in the game to move out of AoEs, but that's not important because even if there wasn't, mobs would still be running after DPS and healers. That's the whole point of Talons in PvE, to control that.

Wifeaggro13 · May 2014

Maverick827 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

There's more to PvE than soloing.

The AI in all aspects of PvE are remarkably stupid. The raw stupidity of the AI is to a degree that even their own self preservation does not register to them. "Giant Burning standard of fire spat forth from the sky? Nothing to fear! I'll just stand in it and get spammed with other AoE's. Couldn't possibly end poorly for me!"
They don't dodge, they don't stun break, they behave exactly the same regardless of what you're doing to them. You move out if the range of a static NPC or go invisible, and the AI will stand there like that chic from Titanic saying "I'll never let go Jack!". They are the whole lot of them dumber than chickens, and chickens are known to stare at the sky with their mouths open when it rains until they drown (I *** you not. True story).

Did they need to Nerf the AoE range? IMO, no, they didn't. But seriously the AI will not be anymore effective than a spounge either way...no offense to the spounge.

There actually is AI in the game to move out of AoEs, but that's not important because even if there wasn't, mobs would still be running after DPS and healers. That's the whole point of Talons in PvE, to control that.

i cant wait until these guys start paying the price for screaming nerf the DK in pve trials. but then again those same guys rage quit after two pulls go bad anyway and scream the tank sucks . tnak an heals carry bad DPS in this game not the other way around for the most part . when you get an awesome healer and awesome DPs, you dont need a tank. ZOS is dancing a line with melee in general that maybe hard to redraw to get it working correctly.

Ruddertail · May 2014

Of course a good DPS can carry a bad tank. If the mobs die quicker, he doesn't have to do as much.

Obscure · May 2014

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Maverick827 wrote: »

There's more to PvE than soloing.

The AI in all aspects of PvE are remarkably stupid. The raw stupidity of the AI is to a degree that even their own self preservation does not register to them. "Giant Burning standard of fire spat forth from the sky? Nothing to fear! I'll just stand in it and get spammed with other AoE's. Couldn't possibly end poorly for me!"
They don't dodge, they don't stun break, they behave exactly the same regardless of what you're doing to them. You move out if the range of a static NPC or go invisible, and the AI will stand there like that chic from Titanic saying "I'll never let go Jack!". They are the whole lot of them dumber than chickens, and chickens are known to stare at the sky with their mouths open when it rains until they drown (I *** you not. True story).

Did they need to Nerf the AoE range? IMO, no, they didn't. But seriously the AI will not be anymore effective than a spounge either way...no offense to the spounge.

There actually is AI in the game to move out of AoEs, but that's not important because even if there wasn't, mobs would still be running after DPS and healers. That's the whole point of Talons in PvE, to control that.

i cant wait until these guys start paying the price for screaming nerf the DK in pve trials. but then again those same guys rage quit after two pulls go bad anyway and scream the tank sucks . tnak an heals carry bad DPS in this game not the other way around for the most part . when you get an awesome healer and awesome DPs, you dont need a tank. ZOS is dancing a line with melee in general that maybe hard to redraw to get it working correctly.

Don't hold your breath. I solo VR Dark Anchors and Cyrodiil Resource camps, and I don't use Dark Talons to do either (nor light armor or ultimate cost reduction for that matter). I don't include the skill in any content other than Group Dungeons and that's only because it's optimal at the moment. Making it less optimal gives me the excuse not to use it and end game build diversity gets just a bit broader...though not by much, AoE immobilize will still be the best way to tank all them adds. Luckily they're stupid and can't tell the difference between 8m or 5m anyhow.