Don't put a 6 man target cap on AOE for pvp

Rotherhans · May 2014

@Ivyrosh you are aware this is a public fora not your personal blog?
Either give a succinct Tl;dr or just keep your game design ideas for your own game.
Nobody got time for that, especially not a Dev.

kellemdros · May 2014

lordrichter wrote: »

I tend to agree that the AoE effect for players should be uncapped, or possibly capped but capped very high so that uncapped does not cause programming problems.

However, everyone seems surprised. Either people have not known, or noticed, that the AoE was capped, or they are specifically using AoE that is known to not have the cap limitation.

I guess I will have to go back and look to see if I can figure out whether one of those two cases applies.

More than the list of skills that were not capped (at least at first) ist a lot more long than that.
Btw, cause that skills the people thought that there wasn't an aoe cap, now they know they are... welcome to the zergball party... (already unsub till knowing of this)

Nijjion · May 2014

DAoC type PBAoE falloff damage is the only logical fix for no AoE caps.

AoE caps have been proven to ruin RvR games so.

Aphilas · May 2014

Disappearingone wrote: »

And by the way all the AoEs in PTS are not capped Dark Talons and Rite of Passage are not, you can check with the PTS players. I'm sure there are others too.

What do you think "We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday." means?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote:

We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday. That said, this only impacts a handful of area-of-effect abilities that did not already have a cap. Almost every area-of-effect ability in ESO already has a cap on the live server. This is not a sweeping change to all area-of-effect abilities.

Surely if it was intended to have the caps and you've "fixed" only bugged ones, you'd have the list of intentionally capped AoEs back from AoE design days, instead of having to work on such list until tomorrow or on Monday.

It's ok, we understand. Don't shoot the messenger because he was told to do damage control.

Xsorus · May 2014

Already starting to see Zergs and Groups stack to avoid AoE in this game

*clap* *clap* congrats Matt, you managed to clone GW2 worst quality.

Nooblet · May 2014

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Already starting to see Zergs and Groups stack to avoid AoE in this game

*clap* *clap* congrats Matt, you managed to clone GW2 worst quality.

I dunno if I would say it avoids AE.. but its clearly the strongest strategy to use.. which is pretty sad. While I didnt play GW2, I did hear about that being a problem there and that is pretty bad to let this happen here. I cannot really see an easy fix, other than increasing the AE cap to 15ish (if they dont want to remove it) as well as provide more ranged AE options. And possibly adding some AE debuffs, or more things in general to make people pay for being stacked. I do see this as a very serious issue that could "break" PvP for alot of players.

Xsorus · May 2014

Nooblet wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Already starting to see Zergs and Groups stack to avoid AoE in this game

*clap* *clap* congrats Matt, you managed to clone GW2 worst quality.

I dunno if I would say it avoids AE.. but its clearly the strongest strategy to use.. which is pretty sad. While I didnt play GW2, I did hear about that being a problem there and that is pretty bad to let this happen here. I cannot really see an easy fix, other than increasing the AE cap to 15ish (if they dont want to remove it) as well as provide more ranged AE options. And possibly adding some AE debuffs, or more things in general to make people pay for being stacked.

15ish might be ok..Hard to say on that.

As for playing GW2, its really hard to describe how stupid it was.

When they first introduced the cap, You'd have 40ish people or more standing right ontop of one another, and the only people who'd leave the group was a mesmer to drop a portal at a new spot..Once the Portal was dropped, the entire 40ish man zerg would instantly port to that new spot.

It took seeing it 1 time to realize how completely moronic it is to have a cap on Area of Effect spells.

I mean just think about it for a second, the strategy to make Area of Effect spells weaker, is stacking on top of one another.

It just blows my mind how any Developer would think that's a good idea...

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

Does anybody know if Ultimates are limited to the cap????

What about Negate Magic????

So a zergling shows up you pop Negate Magic and bomb them with AOE and kill them all or wilt their numbers away.

MAYBE caps is a good idea in this game. I understand in say it was bad in GW2 but there were probably OTHER factors as well that this game has already negated. I say let the devs get the game working properly THEN complain with facts and videos.

I cant imagine healing in this game being stronger than the capable damage output and CERTAINLY not sustainable.

I would make a zergling destroyer build with Lighting Destro Staff + lots of AOE abilities. Maybe a nice 2 hander melee build of 6 followed by a group of 6 healers....if the 6 melees are DKs they get 6 damage wards Templar get Sun Shield and with the proper morph procs damage.

Xsorus · May 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Does anybody know if Ultimates are limited to the cap????

What about Negate Magic????

So a zergling shows up you pop Negate Magic and bomb them with AOE and kill them all or wilt their numbers away.

MAYBE caps is a good idea in this game. I understand in say it was bad in GW2 but there were probably OTHER factors as well that this game has already negated. I say let the devs get the game working properly THEN complain with facts and videos.

I cant imagine healing in this game being stronger than the capable damage output and CERTAINLY not sustainable.

I would make a zergling destroyer build with Lighting Destro Staff + lots of AOE abilities. Maybe a nice 2 hander melee build of 6 followed by a group of 6 healers....if the 6 melees are DKs they get 6 damage wards Templar get Sun Shield and with the proper morph procs damage.

1. Certain ultimates have a cap, i think Negate Magic is one of them that doesn't right now but will in the future patch.

2. There is no other factors in GW2, AoE caps directly resulted in stacking, just like they are in this game.

3. No on Lighting Staff, and what ability do you think you're going to use with Two hander as a DK that gives you any sort of AoE damage, because Brawler and its other morph of cleave don't do any damage of note.

4. Your shield idea doesn't make sense, Do you know why? Because you don't beat zergs with a small man via sustain. In every game where small mans have been able to take out Large Groups, there is one common theme...Massive AoE damage. DAOC/Rift/Warhammer Online... If you don't kill the zerg within the first 10 seconds of the fight, You're probably going to lose. They will simply overwhelm you, which is why its called a Zerg. Also, the strongest absorb shield in the game right now is the Alliance War Ultimate ability Barrier (Mainly its Morph)....That ability has no cap that I know of.. and it gets more and more powerful as you gain more and more people....as you get more and more ultimate back when it finally breaks..Get a big enough group of players, you can perma apply it over and over again....and it stacks with other Barriers...

Nooblet · May 2014

@Shaun98ca2
How can you not imagine healing being able to sustain vs dps? You have multiple players spaming AE heals on your tight stack(another reason to be stacked), and probably multiple tanks in the frontlines taking the brunt of the non-damage hits via block. If players are trying to focus your healers, good luck.

It's my understanding that the AE heals will target the players that are damaged, thus all the heals will correctly target the people who need it. While damage will be spread among the whole ball of people.

Not to mention most of the best AoE dps(other than ultimates) is point blank

Even if you have only 6 players, you are better off stacking. You'll just need to add some type of trees/rocks/buildings to assist you in killing large numbers.

Lynx7386 · May 2014

I'm fine with no AoE cap, except for the fact that it severely hurts players who dont use AoE.

Gravord · May 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM64Am-B4Tw&list=UUgfG3kTopcJRl3FJgiEnODA

As stated many times in last 6 pages, putting aoe cap will kill gameplay where small organized group can face much bigger pug groups and have chance to win fights. Dont turn good pvp system into simple contest which side have bigger amount of ppl in same place. Balance numbers of aoe dmg/heals is the way to go, not ppl standing in red circles of area abilities without any effect on them.