Don't put a 6 man target cap on AOE for pvp

scorpo46b16_ESO

you will destroy or hurt badly pvp in this game one of the reasons my guild chose this game was because it was possible to zerg bust through superior tactics.

this will just empower zergs and be the first of more changes to come that dumb the game down and force pvpers to have to wait for the next game again.

people will just run around in tight defensive massive clumps and only die to larger clumps just like GW2

Every game that does this target cap BS kills its PvP

RivenEsq

Please vote in the poll here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap

Make our voices heard!

guillaume.trudelub17_ESO

AoE cap is the worst thing that could happen to ESO. Find creative solutions to broken overpowered AoE. AoE cap isn't one of them.

Smaller radius, diminishing returns per additional target on leeching abilities, longer but still short cast time, renders the caster vulnerable after cast in a way or another, has a chance to set the caster on fire, . Avoid AoEs that restore health PER target hit or ESPECIALLY restore Ultimate per target hit. Ultimates should not generate ultimate. Among other things. Find smart solutions to problems, not a quick fix like this one that will hurt the game tremendously.

Kaskako

I agree, NO to AoE caps.

Fix the vamp ultimate instead.

Zarec

They need to balance PVP and PVE seperately. This change I think would be adequate for PVE but to be honest, I have misgivings for PVP. I can see its benefits but I can also see its failings and I'm not sure without more testing if the failings outweigh the benefits.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

awkwarrd

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

Can you please post that note publicly.
I have had too many friends leave the game overnight after hearing about this, and would personally like to know the exact details.

tw1jaysin

Hopefully, the tool tips for AoE skills will be updated. I noticed Volley on the bow doesn't list anything about a cap. It simply says deals x damage every 0.5 seconds to enemies in area of effect.

Xsorus

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

Then you should of made that more clear before Launch, a large number of people, including myself would not have bought this game if we'd known the game was going to have an aoe cap, esp since ZOS had said before launch there would not be one.

rendolpheb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

Could you be more specific? I hope you understand that the majority of the community doesn't want a cap on AoE damage/healing/buffing. Your game is really good and need couple of fix on some OP skill like Vampire Ult, but if you ''fix'' some abilities by limiting the AoE to 6 targets or any fixed number. you are making a terrible mistake.

Agriope

Being as I've already cancelled my subscription over AoE cap news and all other players in our PvP guild are doing the same... you might wanna rethink this nonsensical AoE cap change.

Here's the short and long of it:

Guild Wars 2 is free.
Guild Wars 2 has an AoE cap.
ESO is not free.
ESO does not (currently) have an AoE cap.
If GW2 and ESO have an AoE cap = Goodbye ESO. I'll choose the free version of bad decision making, thanks.

Mephane

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

Well then look at this from the other direction: Remove the caps where they are still in place. Look at GW2 and what AoE caps did to that game, their version of AvA/RvR is dominated entirely by zergs clustering together as tightly as possible, and the bigger zerg always wins.

valkaneer2b14_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

Well this certainly has changed my feelings. I changed my sub from 3 months to 1 over this, and I would have canceled when I was finished with the game. Now due to someone actually from ZOS speaking up I'm not going to cancel, but I'm still going to watch what is being done, because this really affects the game, and my sub.

Elsonso

I tend to agree that the AoE effect for players should be uncapped, or possibly capped but capped very high so that uncapped does not cause programming problems.

However, everyone seems surprised. Either people have not known, or noticed, that the AoE was capped, or they are specifically using AoE that is known to not have the cap limitation.

I guess I will have to go back and look to see if I can figure out whether one of those two cases applies.

Mephane

Another thing I want to add:

If this change goes through, the least Zenimax should do is refund all skill points, not just from the morphs but from the base skills themselves, that are AoE, not only the ones that will change, but also all others because a lot of people took them under the assumption that there is no cap, and with a known cap would choose otherwise.

Sirlex

...

twilsonbsn_ESO

ZOS, If it isn't clear to you yet that we DO NOT want ANY aoe caps yet, you may want to open your eyes.

If AOE caps are further implemented me and my friends are GONE

Xsorus

Sirlex wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

"Some sort of cap" - Nice wording. What was this cap exactly? 25? 50? 200? I certainly don't remember seeing a cap on Nova, Impulse, Steel Tornado, Dragon Knight Standard, Wall of Elements, or pretty much any AoE except ones that specifically list a cap. Oh - Dark Talons did have a cap to its root effect but still did damage to upwards of 20 target. From experience in playing the game for over a year, it certainly seems like the abilities with caps were the "edge cases".

Exactly, how about you list all the aoe's with a cap right now Jessica, and all the ones that don't have an aoe cap

Censorious

In case people are wondering why the fuss about AoE caps.
You finish up with entire zergs compressed into a 'stack' in order to share the limited AoE damage. Essentially they cannot be significantly harmed while stacking.

This makes zergs so powerful they rapidly become the ONLY form of PvP available.
It's the end of the game as a game and reduces it to a formula.

A limit of 100 or even 50 would not be too bad. 10-20 would be bad news. A limit of 5 or 6 will ruin it.

Xsorus

GW2 has a perfect example of it, When they introduced the cap, guild groups of 30-40 people (or just zergs in general) would stand ontop of one another, and I mean STAND ontop...all within like a 2 foot radius of one another and just spam their auto attack key and whatever combo fields they had. Mesmers would then throw down portal and they'd all port at once to a location. Eventually it just progressed to the zerg just sticking one another and just a big ole train of spamming whatever cleave attacks there were...

The only way to stop it, was to throw down Arrow Carts, which had a 50 person AOE Cap....Because nothing else worked unless you just flat out outnumbered the zerg you're fighting against.

That is why pvp in GW2 became a joke.

Yshaar

Please all take a look here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/88321/hot-topic-aoe-limit-of-6-brian-wheeler-interview-on-aoe-damage-in-pvp?new=1

Mystborn

Also there are now caps on Grand Healing, Lingering Ritual and Extended Ritual.

Xsorus

Yeap, and healing your group in this game was already a pain in the ass if you had other people near ya..

Oh your tank is getting bashed on by 10 people? Oh lets heal the guy behind you because he has 59% health left and your tank has 60% health left

Yshaar

Mystborn wrote: »

Also there are now caps on Grand Healing, Lingering Ritual and Extended Ritual.

And before, there were not?

Xsorus

Yshaar wrote: »

Mystborn wrote: »

Also there are now caps on Grand Healing, Lingering Ritual and Extended Ritual.

And before, there were not?

correct, Most AOE's and none of the healing abilities had a cap

Brugun

PLEASE DO NOT SET AOE CAP TO 6. If someone casts an AoE on a group of 7 players, then all seven should be hit. Whatever number of people in that AREA should be hit. That's the point of Area of Effect, to hit all players in the area. If ZOS implements the AoE cap that is being tested on PTS, then it may be a deal breaker for PvP for me. This is one of the biggest reasons ESO AvA > Gw2 WvW

Yshaar

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Yshaar wrote: »

Mystborn wrote: »

Also there are now caps on Grand Healing, Lingering Ritual and Extended Ritual.

And before, there were not?

correct, Most AOE's and none of the healing abilities had a cap

Did you test it? Were you sure? I

SwampRaider

That's what siege weapons are for. A few Fire ballistas can scatter a zerg in its tracks.


But capping AOE heals> are you nuts? HOW THE F**** AM I SUPPOSED TO OUTHEAL/CLEANSE SIEGE DAMAGE?

prana33b14_ESO

So smaller groups have to use siege to counter a large group? lol. Genius game play decision. Some small groups I play in will never go near a castle and just kill zergs running around from keep to keep. "OH, we have to set up siege guise! We're outnumbered!"

Prospero_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

I just want to point you to a great article from Atropos who is the founder of tamrielfoundry.com and a long term member of the pts:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/04/eso-target-caps/

I am sorry but it is hard to believe that this is a "bug fix" as zenimax was clearly aware of the issue on the pts. Devs also participated in Sieges, so why didn´t this got fixed in the beta ? This looks more like Zenimax does not have the guts to say "We do not like AoE in it´s current state" and instead telling everybody a story about bugs....

warkaiser

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

So... several months of beta weekends. A month into launch. Nothing ever mentioned in the past about this. Now suddenly "Oops. All AoEs should have been capped at 6 from the start."

Aside from that sounding like complete BS, it's also a completely terrible idea to have had in the 1st place if that was in fact the intent. Adjustments should be made to things like the power of AoEs, their costs, etc. Not silly hard caps put in place which not only impacts AoE but also gives a huge advantage to having a larger force.

Such a thing makes small groups trying to take out large groups at choke points and mounting a good defense completely useless. Just send 6 guys in to take the hit, everyone else is completely immune to giant fireballs blowing up in their face, etc.

Not only that, but OK you cast an AoE at a group, hit 6 of them. What happens on the next cast? 6 different random targets get hit? What about you trying to coordinate AoEs with your group? Everyone hitting 6 different random targets, no concentration of power whatsoever? Sounds awesome & effective...