Don't put a 6 man target cap on AOE for pvp

Cuddler

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Should I start listing all the bomb videos from DAOC?

No thanks, I am entertained enough by your neurotic whining and threats to cancel subscription, please continue.

prana33b14_ESO

Ah, Cuddler doesn't really care, he's just trawlin' guise. He doesn't care about facts, dev statements about emulating DAOC and stuff or actually making the game better and proposes getting a bigger zerg as a solution to getting zerged hehe. That is the exact reason GW2 pvp failed. IF you wanted to win you had to get a bigger group.

Anyway, why would I pay $15 to play a game changing a mechanic to the same mechanic that everyone in GW2 had issues with. I already own that, it is free each month and has been uninstalled for months. LOL threats.

wwraver

Totally agree on this. I WILL leave this game if this is carried over to the live servers. AoE caps always were ridiculous. Solve it another way. If you're scared about exploiting it for AoE grinds in some way, make less large number trash and make fewer more difficult mobs instead.

Oblongship

I feel like I and the rest of the player base are being punished for ZOS' poor planning if this goes through.

SootyTX

Lexander wrote: »

AoE should not be capped

it should be much weaker than single-target skills (like half of their power) and it should have higher mana/stamina costs

This. The problem isn't with caps or not, its that the AOE abilities are FAR too powerful relative to the single target ones (and not just the obviously broken ones). Their really needs to be a far bigger differentiation between AOE and single target. I have no issue with an AOE hitting 30 people if they are silly enough to hang that close together, but it should not be possible for just 2 or 3 players to kill them all in a couple of casts. If you want to kill those 30, you need to get a real coordinated strike by 10 or so from your side - if it took that, the cheese factor of these AOE bombs would be removed and it would actually take a little skill and coordination to take out the huddle.

LatinLegacy

The threats to cancel subscriptions over AOE spamming is hilarious but hey, if that means less spam happy Dragonknights & Sorcecrer players in PvP campaigns, then I will gladly accept your departure. Us true PvP'ers will stick around & enjoy a much better PvP experience!

Nightblades FTW!

galiumb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday. That said, this only impacts a handful of area-of-effect abilities that did not already have a cap. Almost every area-of-effect ability in ESO already has a cap on the live server. This is not a sweeping change to all area-of-effect abilities.

This is incorrect. Abilities with caps of say 10 or 12 in live have a cap of six on test. So they had a cap, and they are changed to have a lower cap, which is very different from what you are describing.

galiumb16_ESO

SootyTX wrote: »

I have no issue with an AOE hitting 30 people if they are silly enough to hang that close together, but it should not be possible for just 2 or 3 players to kill them all in a couple of casts.

The bottom line if 30 people being killed by AoE by 2 or 3 players the 30 people are either all low level, afk or just panicking and not using the skills they have.

30 people couldnt figure out how to spread out and single target them down? Of the 30, a bunch had to be sorcs and not one thought to drop silence?

I honestly think the API nerf holds some responsibility for the power of AoE as well. When I am hit by a bomb group I know that if I cant move, my bar is not dark and I can cast spells I am rooted or immobilized and to dodge out. If my bar is dark and I cant move, I need to interrupt because I am stunned or mezzed. If I can move but cant cast spells, I am in a silence field. I do not know that because of graphical ques the game is supposed to provide, because in most cases the game isnt displaying them or the spell effects in general, but I do know this from experience. A new player, they are just sitting there in a clump with no idea what they need to do because they game hasn't given them enough information to take an action.

Jonnymorrow

twilsonbsn_ESO wrote: »

ZOS, If it isn't clear to you yet that we DO NOT want ANY aoe caps yet, you may want to open your eyes.

If AOE caps are further implemented me and my friends are GONE

And me and mine are also GONE!

CrashBlack

Please I hope htey do not turn a great PvP potential into a GW2 catastrophy!

galiumb16_ESO

LatinLegacy wrote: »

The threats to cancel subscriptions over AOE spamming is hilarious but hey, if that means less spam happy Dragonknights & Sorcecrer players in PvP campaigns, then I will gladly accept your departure. Us true PvP'ers will stick around & enjoy a much better PvP experience!

Nightblades FTW!

I do not know a single true PvP'er that wants this change, so my guess is that you are not, and the fact that folks are cancelling their subs is not specifically about this change, it is about a direction they see the game heading. ZOS making this kind of change is a huge step in the opposite direction most folks want, 90% judging from the poll, so why put in the effort go get gear, level to v10, if ZOS clearly is heading for yet another kingdom of care-o-lot where we reward people that stack in giant balls?

LatinLegacy

Well I wouldn't be a Rank 10 vet on Wabbajack if I didn't take PvP seriously. Hell, been doing it since the days of Meridian 59 so yes, I take it very seriously. As for stacking in giant balls, go for it. They'll be the morons that will be dropped from a few well placed fire treb/ballista hits. You also won't be a very effective zerg if your stacked in a " giant ball " when on the offensive. As already mentioned, the PvP will improve greatly since bad players will no longer be able to run into crowds & spam AOE's until they fall & take 30+ players with them. Try harder man, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. This was & is a needed change.

wdadams1965ub17_ESO

I find it very funny how it went from a nerf to oh its just something we ment to have from the beginning. A over sight on are part.. They sound a lot like blizzard roflmao

Xsorus

LatinLegacy wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be a Rank 10 vet on Wabbajack if I didn't take PvP seriously. Hell, been doing it since the days of Meridian 59 so yes, I take it very seriously. As for stacking in giant balls, go for it. They'll be the morons that will be dropped from a few well placed fire treb/ballista hits. You also won't be a very effective zerg if your stacked in a " giant ball " when on the offensive. As already mentioned, the PvP will improve greatly since bad players will no longer be able to run into crowds & spam AOE's until they fall & take 30+ players with them. Try harder man, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. This was & is a needed change.

Aka, this guy is a zerging nub, therefor it won't effect him, because he'll be the one zerging.

Attorneyatlawl

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We're working on pulling together a list of the impacted abilities. We'll likely have it tomorrow or Monday. That said, this only impacts a handful of area-of-effect abilities that did not already have a cap. Almost every area-of-effect ability in ESO already has a cap on the live server. This is not a sweeping change to all area-of-effect abilities.

What part of No AoE cap is foreign to ZoS?

Most abilities in the game did not have AOE caps, particularly any of the commonly used ones, the few with them were a VERY small number and exceptions such as bat swarm.

Other than being ENTIRELY against this change, I am also ENTIRELY against the misrepresentation happening here. ANYONE can test this out now on live: go grab combatlog statistics by Zeakfury on esoui, round up 10+ mobs and hit an aoe onto them. The vast majority of them will hit unlimited number of targets. Heck some abilities such as nightblade's drain power morph SPECIFICALLY SAY they are intended to hit 9+ targets!

Rumstein

moXrox wrote: »

--SNIP--

GW2 ? Good luck with this game.

Aweful boring quests and just a mindless mass pvp where lemming run behind a "leader".

Sounds like ESO to me TBH.

reagen_lionel

In a game where massive battles happen on a regular basis. I have to agree that area attack with target caps (at least for how low they are) is not a smart idea.

LatinLegacy

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be a Rank 10 vet on Wabbajack if I didn't take PvP seriously. Hell, been doing it since the days of Meridian 59 so yes, I take it very seriously. As for stacking in giant balls, go for it. They'll be the morons that will be dropped from a few well placed fire treb/ballista hits. You also won't be a very effective zerg if your stacked in a " giant ball " when on the offensive. As already mentioned, the PvP will improve greatly since bad players will no longer be able to run into crowds & spam AOE's until they fall & take 30+ players with them. Try harder man, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. This was & is a needed change.

Aka, this guy is a zerging nub, therefor it won't effect him, because he'll be the one zerging.

Actually, I'm an ambush Nightblade. The only AOE skill that I have slotted is Lotus Fan which I happen to not use as an AOE ability. All of my other skills including my ultimate, harvest soul, are single target skills. If I happen to be a part of a large group that is pushing, I am the almost always the one that is firing a siege at a keep or I am stealth at an enemy entrance getting the drop on reinforcements as they enter the keep. You don't have to take my word for it but I do have a publicly available Photobucket album of TESO SS's that will back up my play style claims . That or I can bring in a bunch of Wabbajack vets that I run with to post in this thread to really put you down :P

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO

AoE caps will make me leave.

Spriggen

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

To add a little explanation, all area-of-effect abilities in ESO--except a few edge cases (the ones we fixed)--have always had some sort of a cap. We simply fixed the handful that did not, and were supposed to. We haven't touched any of the others. We're editing the note to make it a bit more clear.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ Excuse my French but that's a load of ***. Why didn't the devs have it capped from day dot? Because all im reading here is " We "forgot" to add the cap to the all of the aoe abilities and we are adding the cap now haha Woops guys soorrryyyyy!! >.< forgive us?"
You should have had the cap implemented into beta and from the first day it was released in early access. I had 6 month invested towards this game but now I'm considering cancellation and I bought alot of friends to this game. They hear I go they will soon follow since we are a small guild that playing games together, not that Zen should care since you have a large customer base anyway and who are we right? But for a game that needs subs, well I think they should care.

You guys are to bring 12 man dungeons and healers can't target heal let alone self heal when they are in a group. How are you devs going around this mmmmmmhhhhhh? Don't give me " oh, healing abilities won't be effected by the cap" because the damage dealers that do aoe are just as important.

Just coz some vampire in PvP was able to live long from an ultimate didn't make her immortal. Players still killed her. You know why? Brains and tactics. Playing a game where there are restrictions isn't fun and I though this game had none when it came to PvP. I may as well go back to WoW and wait for WoD. Depressing how that sounds.

Fxfighter_ESO

From testing on live, a lot of the skills already have a 6 target cap (destroy staff, lightning flood etc.). Haven't had a chance to test ultimates, I don't believe they have the same 6 person cap currently.

Turelus

Digerati wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote...

And apparently these are those who see nothing wrong with this, three people with some AOE being able to wipe out an entire army...

Igolbug

I always figured there was some type of cap on aoe, whenever my friend and I pour oils and they look like amazing oils, they end up hitting 0 people, we assumed its because there was to many people there and the server couldn't handle that many people getting hit.

Larira

Turelus wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote...

And apparently these are those who see nothing wrong with this, three people with some AOE being able to wipe out an entire army...

It wold be easy to outheal the AoE damage from the 4 guys. Bu no one in this fifty man zerg is using any healing abilities.

SootyTX

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

The bottom line if 30 people being killed by AoE by 2 or 3 players the 30 people are either all low level, afk or just panicking and not using the skills they have.

30 people couldnt figure out how to spread out and single target them down? Of the 30, a bunch had to be sorcs and not one thought to drop silence?

The problem is the speed at which those 2-3 players take them out. I've been watching a few streams of ESO PvP lately and its common to see these very small bomb groups take out a disproportionately large number of enemy players far too easily.

Note - I'm not saying small groups shouldn't be able to attack larger ones effectively, and slow or delay an attack. But the concept that a very small number of players should be able to easily defeat 10x their number is not good for the game either.

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

I honestly think the API nerf holds some responsibility for the power of AoE as well. When I am hit by a bomb group I know that if I cant move, my bar is not dark and I can cast spells I am rooted or immobilized and to dodge out. If my bar is dark and I cant move, I need to interrupt because I am stunned or mezzed. If I can move but cant cast spells, I am in a silence field. I do not know that because of graphical ques the game is supposed to provide, because in most cases the game isnt displaying them or the spell effects in general, but I do know this from experience. A new player, they are just sitting there in a clump with no idea what they need to do because they game hasn't given them enough information to take an action.

The lack of feedback, combined with the extremely short TTK, is certainly an issue I agree totally. Especially for new players trying to learn the game, having no clue what is going on simply because the game is giving no information is going to discourage a lot of players from taking part.

And in general - can we please stop with the 'I'm going to quit and take my whole guild with me!!' every other post - it does nothing to advance the discussion and, quite frankly, makes those doing so sound more than a little childish. Threats like that do nothing to influence the developers and undermine the sensible comments being made here.

Dre4dwolfb14_ESO

Why would you cap AOE to max targets in PvP?
Best solution if PVP AOE is out of control, would be to give players more damage mitigation options against AOE (make a new slot on gear like a secondary stat, and let it only be possible for it to roll Resist stats)
Problem solved and the game is cooler.

Don't turn into blizzard where nerfs are the solution for everything, thats the primary reason games like WoW/Diablo III are hemorrhaging players soo hard.

The best solution to a problem is always to make the game more fun and give players more options to avoid the over-powered ability.

xryanvb16_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

http://www.twitch.tv/prydatv/c/4079857
I want to change my vote...

And apparently these are those who see nothing wrong with this, three people with some AOE being able to wipe out an entire army...

I think that's awesome.... I mean... the other people have those abilities too..... so?

If the people who were wiped out in the zerg were paying attention instead of blindly following the zerg they would have seen those guys come in behind them and have picked them off before they were able to wipe out the entire raid..... the smaller group played better and so gg..... I mean how is it more fun that zergs are unstopable?

Xsorus

LatinLegacy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be a Rank 10 vet on Wabbajack if I didn't take PvP seriously. Hell, been doing it since the days of Meridian 59 so yes, I take it very seriously. As for stacking in giant balls, go for it. They'll be the morons that will be dropped from a few well placed fire treb/ballista hits. You also won't be a very effective zerg if your stacked in a " giant ball " when on the offensive. As already mentioned, the PvP will improve greatly since bad players will no longer be able to run into crowds & spam AOE's until they fall & take 30+ players with them. Try harder man, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. This was & is a needed change.

Aka, this guy is a zerging nub, therefor it won't effect him, because he'll be the one zerging.

Actually, I'm an ambush Nightblade. The only AOE skill that I have slotted is Lotus Fan which I happen to not use as an AOE ability. All of my other skills including my ultimate, harvest soul, are single target skills. If I happen to be a part of a large group that is pushing, I am the almost always the one that is firing a siege at a keep or I am stealth at an enemy entrance getting the drop on reinforcements as they enter the keep. You don't have to take my word for it but I do have a publicly available Photobucket album of TESO SS's that will back up my play style claims . That or I can bring in a bunch of Wabbajack vets that I run with to post in this thread to really put you down :P

Your solution to fighting a zerg was ballista and treb hits, you're a zerging nub, and bringing the rest of your zerging nubs into the thread won't change the fact

But by all means, go ahead..

I mean bloody hell, you just said in this post you're the one firing siege at a keep.

Cuddler

It turns out the majority of heals already have the cap, not just damaging abilities. Nobody cared about it before, and the poll shows that 99%+ of the players still don't care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHwbrXNfbNM

Every MMO has a bunch of vocal crybabies who are not interested in facts, but are always ready to throw a tantrum, start petitions, and threaten cancellations over a perceived removal of their overpowered candy.

The main blame for driving ESO crybabies into hysteria lies firmly with the PTS testers who started spreading misinformation. Apparently, they did not even bother to test the same abilities on live. Didn't these testers also have a chance to test the game on PTS for months before release?

I for one hope ZOS does not listen to the tiny vocal minority and do what is right for game balance.

Keystone.Jones

LatinLegacy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

LatinLegacy wrote: »

Well I wouldn't be a Rank 10 vet on Wabbajack if I didn't take PvP seriously. Hell, been doing it since the days of Meridian 59 so yes, I take it very seriously. As for stacking in giant balls, go for it. They'll be the morons that will be dropped from a few well placed fire treb/ballista hits. You also won't be a very effective zerg if your stacked in a " giant ball " when on the offensive. As already mentioned, the PvP will improve greatly since bad players will no longer be able to run into crowds & spam AOE's until they fall & take 30+ players with them. Try harder man, I've been doing this for almost 18 years. This was & is a needed change.

Aka, this guy is a zerging nub, therefor it won't effect him, because he'll be the one zerging.

Actually, I'm an ambush Nightblade. The only AOE skill that I have slotted is Lotus Fan which I happen to not use as an AOE ability. All of my other skills including my ultimate, harvest soul, are single target skills. If I happen to be a part of a large group that is pushing, I am the almost always the one that is firing a siege at a keep or I am stealth at an enemy entrance getting the drop on reinforcements as they enter the keep. You don't have to take my word for it but I do have a publicly available Photobucket album of TESO SS's that will back up my play style claims . That or I can bring in a bunch of Wabbajack vets that I run with to post in this thread to really put you down :P

The thing you don't understand is...with an AOE cap EVERYBODY will stand in a MASSIVE tight group of people and your single target spec will mean NOTHING.

I hope that is clear to you.