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Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR
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Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I wonder how the stress test is going with the whole 6 DC who played vengeance today.
Most players probably havent set Vengeance as home campaign a few hours after start because there is no emperor, no end of campaign reward nor any other advantage for setting it as your home campaign and last vengeance had no ranklist either.1 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »I would even go so far to say, there is nobody playing to set vengeance as the homecampaign.
The bars are 0 everything. You dont have to accept something as a main campaign to be part of the bars and fill them, just be in cyro.
Btw PC EU also only 1 bar each rn
I just walked in PCEU and its 3bars allPCNA
PCEU1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.
The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.
The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.
I may be alone in this, but I have another reason why I'm not PvPing to add to the list. Sub-classing.
Combat is the reason I play this game (both PvE and PvP). The big recent change to combat recently was sub-classing. Not only did sub-classing completely disrupt every single build I have, it came with significant grinding/leveling to use it properly - both to unlock all the lines, and also to obtain more skill points on my alts.
Imagine wanting to work on modernizing your PvP builds after this big update, and then not being able to use them because the Vengeance test dumbs down and templatizes your character. Additionally, even when Vengeance isn't active, unless I've missed it, we have had no assurances that the plan for end game is to leave builds wide open in PvP, or any kind of warning/confirmation that if it's not possible to improve performance without simplifying our builds, that the priority will be performance. Not being able to use updated builds, or knowing if the work to update all of my characters will be wasted at the end of these tests, has completely taken away any drive to focus on PvP. Not to mention the fact that there's no continuity now between PvP setups in Cyro vs. the other forms of PvP when Vengeance is active.
It's just so frustrating. I don't have enough free time to invest in a content style which is so disrupted, with such an uncertain future, that periodically doesn't even allow me to fully leverage the all the combat choices available in the game. Sorry, ZOS, but flinging putrefied meat isn't enough to keep my interest. It's been long enough... I want my full abilities back. I want to use all the combinations and options promised to the community in Cyro as part of the sub-classing update!
Yeah, thats a fair addition true. It also impacted the regular PvP massively, people used it and now are stripped of it again. Personally I do like the Damage increase Subclassing added to PvP it disrupted the immortal tanks at least for a while, but thats another discussion. In case of vengeance it might really be something turning off players who just invested time into it.Edited by L_Nici on 23 September 2025 21:10PC|EU0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know what they were thinking scheduling this during the Undaunted event. Just mind-boggling."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle3 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭alternatelder wrote: »It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.
The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.
The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.
So pve people like it because otherwise they are killed by...skilled people in a normal mode. But pvp people don't like it because it's dumbed down and now everyone is on even playing field? Is that how I see this argument? So where was that skill coming from? Dare I say...sets and overtuned skills were carrying people?
Nope. Because any PvE player could use the same overtuned sets and skills, and would still lose against the skilled player. There is much more to it. Movement for example, the abillity to know when to cast what, keep buffs running without running out of Ressources. Its a matter of training. Sets and Skills are equal for everyone anyway, just copy a build.
If both players have same overturned skills and sets than those are out of equation and any advantage can decide the fight and skill is the only thing left so of course the more skilled player will win. That doesn’t have to be the regular PvP player, some players not regularly PvPing or having PvP build might be better at movement, casting the right skill at the right time and keeping buffs and pools up.
Much more interesting would be if the PvPer in PvE build could beat a PvEr in PvP build. Or a „skilled PvPer“ a „bad PvPer“ if they swap builds.
Movement, knowing when to cast what and keeping your buffs and ressources up are also important in Vengeance and still the self-proclaimed „skilled pvper“ hate it calling it noskill zergfest and the players they call „skillless“ like it.
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Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.
People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.
Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.Edited by Stamicka on 23 September 2025 23:20PC NA and Xbox NA0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭
Burst heals also heal 1.5x the damage a spammable does outside of Vengeance when the dmg% modifiers arent much higher than the healing ones like you can see on eso-hub and other websites. But they also have much higher cost and drain your stamina fast if you spam them. Therefore they are called burst heal not spammable heal although they can be spammed to give instant heal.It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.
People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.
Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.0 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Burst heals also heal 1.5x the damage a spammable does outside of Vengeance when the dmg% modifiers arent much higher than the healing ones like you can see on eso-hub and other websites. But they also have much higher cost and drain your stamina fast if you spam them. Therefore they are called burst heal not spammable heal although they can be spammed to give instant heal.It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.
People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.
Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.
It doesn’t matter what the values are outside of Vengeance, it’s a totally different environment with fixed stats and hardly any damage modifiers.
Having burst heal values like that made sense in Vengeance 1 cause there were hardly any other heals available. When Vengeance 2 introduced both vigor and the resto staff HoT, there should’ve been adjustments to damage and healing. There also needs to be a way to stop people from using both vigor and the resto HoT at the same time.PC NA and Xbox NA1 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It may have been 0 bars across all factions on PS NA, but the handful of DC that were there were overcome by waves and waves of AD and EP across the map when I was there. Every new campaign has players queue locked on either AD or EP due to Alliance change tokens, and the increased population for Vengeance has made it even more of a slaughter fest than usual. So much fun.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Low bars put me off of playing as it likely indicates little action, and I didn't really want to experiment with a whole bunch of setups for a build that would be axed in a week. And also at the moment getting double keys for pledges is nice given I really only play one or two characters.0 -
RobZha✭✭✭It's stripped so much from what PVP is that I might not even log in once this time as I'd prefer not to be supporting it in any way. I'll just work on my recently made char on NA for the most part in PVE or go and play something else at times too.
If I do get the urge to play some type of PVP and go in there I'll probably last an hour or so in there at best I think before getting fed up of it.
The communication as usual seems really bad. There's no info on what they've found causes problems or what works well with their testing, whether or not they're planning to eventually remove all other PVP and leave us with this or not, it's bizarre.0 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭The timing of this test is poor, but the empty bars doesn't mean it's truly unpopular and empty. The pop cap is 250-300 according to miats pvp alerts. I was playing around 3pm EST on PC NA and everything was 1 bar but there was about 40 of each faction active. On the normal campaign, that would easily be 3 bars. PC ui doesn't show 0 bars unless you're using a controller, but I would wager it would've been considered 0 bars.3 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭I really like how console (PS) players are projecting their situation like everywhere else is the same.
Let see, this time Vengeance campaign has:
1) no Golden Pursuit, and
2) no double XP and AP.
In the parallel, there is Undaunted Celebration Event with GP.
You all know about that above.
Meanwhile, Whitestrake’s Mayhem 2025 was IMO big failure even with all rewards attached.
At minimum, everybody agrees it was obviously (much) less players involved than previous years.
As you know, PC EU is the largest playerbase server as per ZOS.
And guess what, in the prime for the first two days there are more players than normally.
2-3 bars per factions and we know Vengeance has 3x cap from normal Cyrodiil.
Reading forum I expected 1 bar because real PvP players don't like and there is a massive boycott.
And as exclusively AD player, I see all (?) the top AD PvP Cyrodiil guilds participate.
I will also aknowledge that it seems Blues are boycotting as in Vengeance 2 they are again absolutely the worst.
Performance is way better then Vengeance 2, too.
And players actually listen, come and help, and do objectives. AD zone chat is pretty cool / chill.
Last evening huge 3 way battle.
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.3 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Thats not even close to huge, thats pretty pathetic for Vengeance.Edited by L_Nici on 24 September 2025 10:28PC|EU1 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭Vengeance can't even muster up a single bar from...any team? (PS NA prime time)
Because consoles dont like the game mode.
My whole pvp guild doesnt play as now and we can only hope its recovering after this ''stress test''.
I want to add, aparently for the vengeance in december Greyhost stays up for the consoles.
This makes me think, Zos is aware of the problem.
I wonder why Greyhost wasn´t kept up for this time, unless there were technial limitations.Edited by MISTFORMBZZZ on 24 September 2025 10:36PS EU0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
Honestly, I have no idea
.
I simply assumed because ESO team didn't publicly announce that there are double gains.
If there was double gain they would announce, right?
This is how much I earned on my Warden for ~3 hours and 10 min play, and it was one session:
187k exp and 173k AP.
Judge yourself. I have no clue is this good or bad gain, I don't play normal Cyrodiil since I started to play game again in late March. However, I played Cyrodiil mostly back in 2017-8 before I left the game (you can check my post history as a proof).
UPDATE
I fiinally found out in FAQ posted by ZOS Kevin:
...as was not posted in the main news. So, mystery solved.AP and XP earned will be increased 100% while in this Campaign.
Edited by exiars10 on 24 September 2025 15:20Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.Edited by exiars10 on 24 September 2025 11:05Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.2 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
Peak ESO subreddit response
Thats not even close to huge, thats pretty pathetic for Vengeance.
. They like to post things taken out of context.
I was standing clearly on the 1st floor on the right where I played as a cowardly Bosmer sniping low health Reds
.
So, I know and you know, POV is pretty narrow because I ignored left side and front entrance.
You know there is other half of castle yard left, right which you don't see?
Do you want screenshot from the top of castle?
But no, it's pathetic, ha ha.
For others what was going on.
When I entered Cyrodiil, Reds and Blue overrun us (AD). All 3 alliances had 3 bars, and for AD was 1 minute waiting time.
BB was under siege by Blues, and BM soon to be as Reds started to attack resources around castle.
So, many of us decided to save BM. Whole Red server sieged it against us. After BB fall, whole Blue server come, too, and it was 3 way battle which you can't see as Blue broke wall on the left and fought with Reds inside castle, and our incoming reinforcements outside of castle.
After other AD group liberated BB, they came to us, and we managed to wipe both Red and Blue.
In this and previous screenshot you can clearly see in the kill feed that players from all 3 alliances killed each others.
And on this screenshot you can see two battles outside walls.
Edited by exiars10 on 24 September 2025 11:29Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.1 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsPS EU0 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭
Vengeance needs as many players to get 2bars as GreyHost to get pop locket so might still have 50 players per faction.Avran_Sylt wrote: »Low bars put me off of playing as it likely indicates little action, and I didn't really want to experiment with a whole bunch of setups for a build that would be axed in a week. And also at the moment getting double keys for pledges is nice given I really only play one or two characters.
You don’t have to experiment much with your skills, just equip 10 and 2 ultimates and you are good to go
0 -
WaywardArgonian✭✭✭✭✭alternatelder wrote: »So pve people like it because otherwise they are killed by...skilled people in a normal mode. But pvp people don't like it because it's dumbed down and now everyone is on even playing field? Is that how I see this argument? So where was that skill coming from? Dare I say...sets and overtuned skills were carrying people?
No. This was the same argument used in anticipation of the no proc campaign. Yet on no proc, people kept getting bodied by the same players they accused of getting carried by these 'overtuned sets'.
The point is that Vengeance barely allows for any skill expression. Who wins an encounter is almost entirely decided by which side has more numbers. In case of a 1v1, who wins is largely decided by respective the classes in that scenario. The modicum of skill involved in Vengeance pvp is small and becomes negligible in the largescale battles that constitute 99.9% of Vengeance combat.
The answer to overtuned sets is addressing said overtuned sets. Not to the removal of skill from the game to such an extent that it just becomes a numbers game.PC/EU altaholic | #1 PVP support player (contested) | @ degonyte in-game | Nibani Ilath-Pal (AD Nightblade) - AvA rank 50 | Jehanne Teymour (AD Sorcerer) - AvA rank 50 | Niria Ilath-Pal (AD Templar) - AvA rank 502 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭
How I'm projecting?MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinions
It's console players who write gloom and doom about Vengeance, not me or other PC players.
I don't project that console players play Vengeance because PC players play. Please quote me where I did say that?
Again, I posted here to counter narrative how console situation = everybody else (i.e. PC), so conclusion: Vengeance is failure. It's not on PC.
How is opinion stating that PC EU has 3 bars for all 3 alliances in prime time
, and on AD I have to wait 1 min to enter?
How is opinion stating that top AD PvP Cyrodiil guilds are participating, completely different situation from console's boycott?
ZOS Kevin posted this in pinned FAQ (underlining mine):
You can clearly see in game (PC EU obvously) there are more than 60 or 80 players per faction - is that normal Cyrodiil cap anyway? And somebody calculated that it is actually 3x than per normal campaign.How many Cyrodiil campaigns will be available during the test?
There will be one campaign available for the Vengeance Test Campaign. Part of the test is to measure population caps and see how much the server can push. So even though there will be one campaign, it will have a higher population cap than current Cyrodiil campaigns. During the timeframe of this test, there will be no other Alliance War Campaigns available.Edited by exiars10 on 24 September 2025 15:36Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
CatoUnchained✭✭✭✭✭
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭There’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..
Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.
If you need a golden pursuit and no event going on at the moment to have population for your PvP camp... you've significantly lost the plot.LadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.1 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..
Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.
If you need a golden pursuit and no event going on at the moment to have population for your PvP camp... you've significantly lost the plot.
I mean at this point we’ve seen a PvP specific event where hardly anyone showed up to PvP. So a whole double AP and extra rewards couldn’t incentivize people to join. Are you aware of the current sentiment around PvP?
Why do you think people would join when there’s a separate PvE event going on and no other reason to enter a test mode campaign?
Vengeance is no more empty than Gray Host all things considered. It might even be a bit more populated. Remember 1 Vengeance bar = 2 to 3 Gray Host bars. So even when Vengeance is showing 0 bars there’s more action there than Gray Host.
That being said, if the healing and TTK wasn’t so high, I think more veterans would test.Edited by Stamicka on 24 September 2025 16:15PC NA and Xbox NA1 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭There’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..
Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.
If you need a golden pursuit and no event going on at the moment to have population for your PvP camp... you've significantly lost the plot.
I mean at this point we’ve seen a PvP specific event where hardly anyone showed up to PvP. So a whole double AP and extra rewards couldn’t incentivize people to join. Are you aware of the current sentiment around PvP?
Why do you think people would join when there’s a separate PvE event going on and no other reason to enter a test mode campaign?
Vengeance is no more empty than Gray Host all things considered. It might even be a bit more populated. Remember 1 Vengeance bar = 2 to 3 Gray Host bars. So even when Vengeance is showing 0 bars there’s more action there than Gray Host.
That being said, if the healing and TTK wasn’t so high, I think more veterans would test.
Well im sure this might appears for PC but on console there are deffo no 3 grey host bars when vengeance are 0 bars.
Zos also keeps GH enabled for this reason in december. They know the test-event is not going well on consoles.
But yous can keep enjoying it on PC0
