Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR

Iriidius · September 23

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

I wonder how the stress test is going with the whole 6 DC who played vengeance today.

Most players probably havent set Vengeance as home campaign a few hours after start because there is no emperor, no end of campaign reward nor any other advantage for setting it as your home campaign and last vengeance had no ranklist either.

blktauna · September 23

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

I would even go so far to say, there is nobody playing to set vengeance as the homecampaign.

The bars are 0 everything. You dont have to accept something as a main campaign to be part of the bars and fill them, just be in cyro.

Btw PC EU also only 1 bar each rn

I just walked in PCEU and its 3bars all

L_Nici · September 23

peacenote wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.

The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.

The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.

I may be alone in this, but I have another reason why I'm not PvPing to add to the list. Sub-classing.

Combat is the reason I play this game (both PvE and PvP). The big recent change to combat recently was sub-classing. Not only did sub-classing completely disrupt every single build I have, it came with significant grinding/leveling to use it properly - both to unlock all the lines, and also to obtain more skill points on my alts.

Imagine wanting to work on modernizing your PvP builds after this big update, and then not being able to use them because the Vengeance test dumbs down and templatizes your character. Additionally, even when Vengeance isn't active, unless I've missed it, we have had no assurances that the plan for end game is to leave builds wide open in PvP, or any kind of warning/confirmation that if it's not possible to improve performance without simplifying our builds, that the priority will be performance. Not being able to use updated builds, or knowing if the work to update all of my characters will be wasted at the end of these tests, has completely taken away any drive to focus on PvP. Not to mention the fact that there's no continuity now between PvP setups in Cyro vs. the other forms of PvP when Vengeance is active.

It's just so frustrating. I don't have enough free time to invest in a content style which is so disrupted, with such an uncertain future, that periodically doesn't even allow me to fully leverage the all the combat choices available in the game. Sorry, ZOS, but flinging putrefied meat isn't enough to keep my interest. It's been long enough... I want my full abilities back. I want to use all the combinations and options promised to the community in Cyro as part of the sub-classing update!

Yeah, thats a fair addition true. It also impacted the regular PvP massively, people used it and now are stripped of it again. Personally I do like the Damage increase Subclassing added to PvP it disrupted the immortal tanks at least for a while, but thats another discussion. In case of vengeance it might really be something turning off players who just invested time into it.

MasterSpatula · September 23

I don't know what they were thinking scheduling this during the Undaunted event. Just mind-boggling.

Iriidius · September 23

L_Nici wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.

The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.

The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.

So pve people like it because otherwise they are killed by...skilled people in a normal mode. But pvp people don't like it because it's dumbed down and now everyone is on even playing field? Is that how I see this argument? So where was that skill coming from? Dare I say...sets and overtuned skills were carrying people?

Nope. Because any PvE player could use the same overtuned sets and skills, and would still lose against the skilled player. There is much more to it. Movement for example, the abillity to know when to cast what, keep buffs running without running out of Ressources. Its a matter of training. Sets and Skills are equal for everyone anyway, just copy a build.

If both players have same overturned skills and sets than those are out of equation and any advantage can decide the fight and skill is the only thing left so of course the more skilled player will win. That doesn’t have to be the regular PvP player, some players not regularly PvPing or having PvP build might be better at movement, casting the right skill at the right time and keeping buffs and pools up.
Much more interesting would be if the PvPer in PvE build could beat a PvEr in PvP build. Or a „skilled PvPer“ a „bad PvPer“ if they swap builds.

Movement, knowing when to cast what and keeping your buffs and ressources up are also important in Vengeance and still the self-proclaimed „skilled pvper“ hate it calling it noskill zergfest and the players they call „skillless“ like it.

Stamicka · September 23

It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.

People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.

Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.

Iriidius · 12:13AM

Stamicka wrote: »

It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.

People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.

Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.

Burst heals also heal 1.5x the damage a spammable does outside of Vengeance when the dmg% modifiers arent much higher than the healing ones like you can see on eso-hub and other websites. But they also have much higher cost and drain your stamina fast if you spam them. Therefore they are called burst heal not spammable heal although they can be spammed to give instant heal.

Stamicka · 12:39AM

Iriidius wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

It’s only day 2 and I’m already done. I’m not sure why ZOS hasn’t addressed how ridiculously unbalanced the damage vs healing is in Vengeance.

People have way too much healing. It’s at the point where ZOS could increase the damage of all direct damage abilities by 50% and there would STILL be room to consider further increases.

Some burst heals are 1.5x the damage of a melee spammable. That’s totally unacceptable now that vigor and regeneration are in Vengeance.

Burst heals also heal 1.5x the damage a spammable does outside of Vengeance when the dmg% modifiers arent much higher than the healing ones like you can see on eso-hub and other websites. But they also have much higher cost and drain your stamina fast if you spam them. Therefore they are called burst heal not spammable heal although they can be spammed to give instant heal.

It doesn’t matter what the values are outside of Vengeance, it’s a totally different environment with fixed stats and hardly any damage modifiers.

Having burst heal values like that made sense in Vengeance 1 cause there were hardly any other heals available. When Vengeance 2 introduced both vigor and the resto staff HoT, there should’ve been adjustments to damage and healing. There also needs to be a way to stop people from using both vigor and the resto HoT at the same time.

katanagirl1 · 1:26AM

It may have been 0 bars across all factions on PS NA, but the handful of DC that were there were overcome by waves and waves of AD and EP across the map when I was there. Every new campaign has players queue locked on either AD or EP due to Alliance change tokens, and the increased population for Vengeance has made it even more of a slaughter fest than usual. So much fun.

Avran_Sylt · 1:55AM

Low bars put me off of playing as it likely indicates little action, and I didn't really want to experiment with a whole bunch of setups for a build that would be axed in a week. And also at the moment getting double keys for pledges is nice given I really only play one or two characters.

RobZha · 5:23AM

It's stripped so much from what PVP is that I might not even log in once this time as I'd prefer not to be supporting it in any way. I'll just work on my recently made char on NA for the most part in PVE or go and play something else at times too.

If I do get the urge to play some type of PVP and go in there I'll probably last an hour or so in there at best I think before getting fed up of it.

The communication as usual seems really bad. There's no info on what they've found causes problems or what works well with their testing, whether or not they're planning to eventually remove all other PVP and leave us with this or not, it's bizarre.

Estin · 5:29AM

The timing of this test is poor, but the empty bars doesn't mean it's truly unpopular and empty. The pop cap is 250-300 according to miats pvp alerts. I was playing around 3pm EST on PC NA and everything was 1 bar but there was about 40 of each faction active. On the normal campaign, that would easily be 3 bars. PC ui doesn't show 0 bars unless you're using a controller, but I would wager it would've been considered 0 bars.

exiars10 · 8:25AM

I really like how console (PS) players are projecting their situation like everywhere else is the same.

Let see, this time Vengeance campaign has:
1) no Golden Pursuit, and
2) no double XP and AP.

In the parallel, there is Undaunted Celebration Event with GP.

You all know about that above.

Meanwhile, Whitestrake’s Mayhem 2025 was IMO big failure even with all rewards attached.
At minimum, everybody agrees it was obviously (much) less players involved than previous years.

As you know, PC EU is the largest playerbase server as per ZOS.
And guess what, in the prime for the first two days there are more players than normally.
2-3 bars per factions and we know Vengeance has 3x cap from normal Cyrodiil.
Reading forum I expected 1 bar because real PvP players don't like and there is a massive boycott.
And as exclusively AD player, I see all (?) the top AD PvP Cyrodiil guilds participate.
I will also aknowledge that it seems Blues are boycotting as in Vengeance 2 they are again absolutely the worst.

Performance is way better then Vengeance 2, too.
And players actually listen, come and help, and do objectives. AD zone chat is pretty cool / chill.

Last evening huge 3 way battle.

JohnRingo · 8:57AM

Vengeance can't even muster up a single bar from...any team? (PS NA prime time)

Poss · 9:04AM

exiars10 wrote: »

Let see, this time Vengeance campaign has:
1) no Golden Pursuit, and
2) no double XP and AP.

Wait, it’s not double AP??

MISTFORMBZZZ · 10:11AM

exiars10 wrote: »

I really like how console (PS) players are projecting their situation like everywhere else is the same.

Where did you read this & have this from?

OP is literally saying it´s PS EU.

L_Nici · 10:28AM

Thats not even close to huge, thats pretty pathetic for Vengeance.

MISTFORMBZZZ · 10:35AM

JohnRingo wrote: »

Vengeance can't even muster up a single bar from...any team? (PS NA prime time)

Because consoles dont like the game mode.

My whole pvp guild doesnt play as now and we can only hope its recovering after this ''stress test''.

I want to add, aparently for the vengeance in december Greyhost stays up for the consoles.
This makes me think, Zos is aware of the problem.
I wonder why Greyhost wasn´t kept up for this time, unless there were technial limitations.

exiars10 · 10:53AM

Poss wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

Let see, this time Vengeance campaign has:
1) no Golden Pursuit, and
2) no double XP and AP.

Wait, it’s not double AP??

Honestly, I have no idea

.
I simply assumed because ESO team didn't publicly announce that there are double gains.
If there was double gain they would announce, right?

This is how much I earned on my Warden for ~3 hours and 10 min play, and it was one session.
187k exp and 173k AP.
Judge yourself. I have no clue is this good or bad gain, I don't play normal Cyrodiil since I started to play game again in late March.
But I played Cyrodiil mostly back in 2017-8 before I left game (you can check my post history as a proof).

exiars10 · 11:00AM

MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »

exiars10 wrote: »

I really like how console (PS) players are projecting their situation like everywhere else is the same.

Where did you read this & have this from?

OP is literally saying it´s PS EU.

???

I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.

So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.

Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.

So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server.