Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR
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exiars10✭✭✭✭Just for the record - yesterday evening (Wednesday) PC EU mega server in prime time:
Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.2 -
Renato90085✭✭✭✭✭i see pc/na in most time is 0,and have few one chat and play there
but first time Vengeance have all full and need queue15 min
I don't really understand pvp test, if no one play this,how does this help in testing the cap? why choose in pve event do this1 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vengeance in terms of PvP basically same abomination as Cyrodiil questing in terms of PvE.2 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinions
On PC there's an addon called miats pvp alerts. With it, you can view the total amount of players in a single area, including those on enemy factions. In the first vengeance test, it told me there were ~250 players on EP alone at arrius. This was an accurate number too btw, the addon doesn't inflate numbers. After the fight, I ported back to the main base and it told me there were ~20 standing at spawn. Now, some of these players may have had the same idea as me, but with how many of them were by the gate, I would wager the total population per alliance during vengeance is 300. I don't know the pop cap per alliance in GH, but I would say it's anywhere from 50-60. I never tested to be sure, but I'm confident that is the cap due to how empty cyrodiil is even at peak times.
The bars on the campaign screen indicate how full the campaign is. Since there 3 bars, it makes sense that an alliance will hit a bar every 1/3 of the way. Say that we take vengeance's and GH's upper guesses, so 60 and 300. For an alliance to gain 1 bar in GH, there would need to be at least 20 players in the campaign on that alliance. There will need to be 60 for it to pop lock. Now for vengeance, it will work the same way, but the number is now higher. For an alliance to gain 1 bar in vengeance, there would need to be at least 100 players in the campaign on that alliance. There will need to be 300 for it to pop lock.
All vengeance is doing on console is showing how low of a population consoles have. That's it. Console players are taking it as vengeance killing pvp, but it's actually them protesting over a misunderstanding.4 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
Edited by Iriidius on 25 September 2025 11:122 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinions
On PC there's an addon called miats pvp alerts. With it, you can view the total amount of players in a single area, including those on enemy factions. In the first vengeance test, it told me there were ~250 players on EP alone at arrius. This was an accurate number too btw, the addon doesn't inflate numbers. After the fight, I ported back to the main base and it told me there were ~20 standing at spawn. Now, some of these players may have had the same idea as me, but with how many of them were by the gate, I would wager the total population per alliance during vengeance is 300. I don't know the pop cap per alliance in GH, but I would say it's anywhere from 50-60. I never tested to be sure, but I'm confident that is the cap due to how empty cyrodiil is even at peak times.
The bars on the campaign screen indicate how full the campaign is. Since there 3 bars, it makes sense that an alliance will hit a bar every 1/3 of the way. Say that we take vengeance's and GH's upper guesses, so 60 and 300. For an alliance to gain 1 bar in GH, there would need to be at least 20 players in the campaign on that alliance. There will need to be 60 for it to pop lock. Now for vengeance, it will work the same way, but the number is now higher. For an alliance to gain 1 bar in vengeance, there would need to be at least 100 players in the campaign on that alliance. There will need to be 300 for it to pop lock.
All vengeance is doing on console is showing how low of a population consoles have. That's it. Console players are taking it as vengeance killing pvp, but it's actually them protesting over a misunderstanding.
If all this is true, then let me state this: Before vengeance PS EU Cyro had partwise 3 - 2- 2 bars for the most of the evenings.
With the increased numbers of vengeance it should be at least 1-0-0 and action.
But there is no action, no fights with more then 5-10 kills, no bars.
Im just about consoles, vengeance made the decline of pvp population go faster and killed it off.
PS EU1 -
MISTFORMBZZZ✭✭✭✭✭Why else would ZOS allow GH to stay for Vengeance in december btw? Only for consolesPS EU0
-
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭
There is still more population than in Vengeance than in GreyHost,Blackreach andThere’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..
Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.
If you need a golden pursuit and no event going on at the moment to have population for your PvP camp... you've significantly lost the plot.
Ravenwatch combined but Vengeance haters somehow expect it to get pop locked despite having the capacity of GreyHost,Blackreach and Ravenwatch combined.
And the same population as first Vengeance despite first one having golden pursuit and no rival event. And even first one was called empty for not being 24/7 pop locket.1 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since when did a test with bad timing became platform wars?
Edited by Four_Fingers on 25 September 2025 11:481 -
moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Four_Fingers wrote: »Since when did a test with bad timing became platform wars?
When it became the only ESO related PvP that still works.Edited by moderatelyfatman on 25 September 2025 11:522 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭I'm glad OP and some other console players finally aknowledged after presented data that PC situation is completely different and so far, Vengeance is success here.
@Iriidius @Estin
Thank you for proving Vengeance 3x cap with hard data. Case solved
. Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's definitely seems like a major issue for consoles currently. No disagreement here - it's not healthy in any possible way.
Overall Vengeance is still more popular on pc, even with a major pve event going where people do spent time instead of just going for one ticket and off to their pasture. Even with imbalance alliance wise due to many reasons from the event, race choice and how hardcore or pro/anti vengeance alliances generally are. Personally it's a lost test in a sense, there won't be any major data points nor good amount of substantial feedback. As a PC/EU EP player I see no reason to participate currently, plus recent dev talks didn't inspire logging in to the game outside of bare minimum level participation and I'm not even anti-vengeance.
If they do really want 300/300/300 PvP, or 600 whatever it was at launch it not just requires them to fix lag, change up how PvP essentially works but also create a reward structure making alliances populated enough even on times of major events outside of it, meaning also not scaring off old and dedicated players and relying solely on golden pursuit driven casual players to be there all the time. It's not just about throwing out exp/ap, it's about overall resource balance that was majorly skewed in recent years giving everything away for no player effort, "just login, please!".
Also there's no way of sustaining it without making PvP a primary expected endgame activity and not just a side one, same how trials are low-key mandatory to get the best gear. It was like that at the very beginning of the game and the focus needs to be shifted to it again in some way.
1 -
ercknn✭✭✭PS/NA here.
I played a lot yesterday and when I first entered campaign and my first earned AP showed I was 27th place…..big yikes
Uhhhhhh guys?! Hello?!
ECHO!…Echo…echo
It’s happening, it’s finally happening.
In all seriousness I did see some of the usual names sprinkled in IC and rando BGs though.
It’s always the SAME names now!
3 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭✭MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
You stated that you knew what the caps were when you have no idea what they are. You are wishcasting and defending provably false statements in your ferver to promote a failed game model.
Edited by AngryPenguin on 25 September 2025 12:115 -
AngryPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
There is still more population than in Vengeance than in GreyHost,Blackreach andThere’s no Golden Pursuit for it and it’s running during the Undaunted event. It could’ve been planned better IMO..
Anyway despite being 0 bars I found more action than I would find in Gray Host at this time of day. If Vengeance is showing 0 bars, it could still very well be more populated than a Gray Host with 2 bars.
If you need a golden pursuit and no event going on at the moment to have population for your PvP camp... you've significantly lost the plot.
Ravenwatch combined but Vengeance haters somehow expect it to get pop locked despite having the capacity of GreyHost,Blackreach and Ravenwatch combined.
And the same population as first Vengeance despite first one having golden pursuit and no rival event. And even first one was called empty for not being 24/7 pop locket.
No, there isn't. That and the performance is, at best, marginally better than normal live PvP and in the big zerg fights it's even worse.
Edited by AngryPenguin on 25 September 2025 12:142 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭
How is the case solved youre just completely off topic and somehow made this into a pc thing lmao1 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
You stated that you knew what the caps were when you have no idea what they are. You are wishcasting and defending provably false statements in your ferver to promote a failed game model.
@exiars10 as i said before you‘re just making up things and somehow turned this into a pc thing when its not. From begin i have wrote on consoles its not going well. I dont know what you want to prove here buddy.
1 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭It truly doesn't help that they disabled all scouting and town quests which draw PvE players in wanting to get their feet wet or level up a new character in cyro which I do all the time as well.
0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
The only info we have to go on is around launch with the beta tests in similar conditions to vengeance gamedesign wise they were able to hit 1800 players which was stated by the devs at the time. This can still be found somewhere on the ESO website if I recall LINK From the livestream statements at one point in initial vengeance testing they had exceeded this value (600 per faction) however it was unstable and they had to reduce it to around 3x or 4x live cyrodil's stable population.
Through addons which have been brought up and discussed numerous times on here we can gather that on PCNA we are in the realm of around 100 players. Keep in mind the dips in every day pop and the accuracy of the addons may be off by a few. We could guess that there is going to be an even number like 100 or maybe it is 10x 12 person groups so 120 players roughly.
The Data livestream showed a population comparison for the first test vs greyhost pop caps. Initially they were unfiltered but below is after they settled on a vengeance baseline pop cap. If we were to assume live is at best 120 and the blurred out intervals are 100 divisions that would land vengeance pop cap stable at 350 or 360 players per faction. Which is our 3x number.
This baseline pop cap for testing would be maintained to compare subsequent tests. If we want to talk 1-2 bar I dont think zos ever explained what these bars mean. Plenty of speculation in the past is that the bar system doesn't work considering weve seen lowpop bonuses and 1 bar with massive guilds on before. is 1 bar 25%, 2 bar 50%, 3 bar 75%.....who knows? If so 1 bar of 360 would be up to 90 people per faction 2 bar would be 180. Seeing this test sit with 1-2 bar no incentives is atleast on par with greyhost population wise. We will see what happens in the week 2 of test 4 when we have GH vs veng. Judging by the data we will see about even populations, probably pointing zos towards having veng replace the dead u50 and nocp campaigns so new players have a form of cyrodil open to them.
EDIT: also look at EU all logging on like clockwork, that's crazy..........We are still waiting for a data stream for Veng2 where more stuttering issues were seen, people pointing towards the group aoe hots/dots added with resto and alliance skills. In the direct livestream zos does state they can look at these stutters and see what effects and skills were commonly going off. LINKEdited by MincMincMinc on 25 September 2025 15:45Zos should hire pvp consultants1 -
FurryCandyHearts✭✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »I love how ZOS absolutely refuse to let players know what the pop cap is for Cyrodiil, as if it is some state secret.
We should try to find out by having an entire guild log into Cyrodiil when it is zero bars and see how many get in before there is a queue.
likely it changes depending on what events are going on and what they need servers the most for?0 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭For the record (archive) - dead game on PC EU 19.30 - and it's not even prime time.
Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
JustLovely✭✭✭✭✭
✭MincMincMinc wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
The only info we have to go on is around launch with the beta tests in similar conditions to vengeance gamedesign wise they were able to hit 1800 players which was stated by the devs at the time. This can still be found somewhere on the ESO website if I recall LINK From the livestream statements at one point in initial vengeance testing they had exceeded this value (600 per faction) however it was unstable and they had to reduce it to around 3x or 4x live cyrodil's stable population.
Through addons which have been brought up and discussed numerous times on here we can gather that on PCNA we are in the realm of around 100 players. Keep in mind the dips in every day pop and the accuracy of the addons may be off by a few. We could guess that there is going to be an even number like 100 or maybe it is 10x 12 person groups so 120 players roughly.
The Data livestream showed a population comparison for the first test vs greyhost pop caps. Initially they were unfiltered but below is after they settled on a vengeance baseline pop cap. If we were to assume live is at best 120 and the blurred out intervals are 100 divisions that would land vengeance pop cap stable at 350 or 360 players per faction. Which is our 3x number.
This baseline pop cap for testing would be maintained to compare subsequent tests. If we want to talk 1-2 bar I dont think zos ever explained what these bars mean. Plenty of speculation in the past is that the bar system doesn't work considering weve seen lowpop bonuses and 1 bar with massive guilds on before. is 1 bar 25%, 2 bar 50%, 3 bar 75%.....who knows? If so 1 bar of 360 would be up to 90 people per faction 2 bar would be 180. Seeing this test sit with 1-2 bar no incentives is atleast on par with greyhost population wise. We will see what happens in the week 2 of test 4 when we have GH vs veng. Judging by the data we will see about even populations, probably pointing zos towards having veng replace the dead u50 and nocp campaigns so new players have a form of cyrodil open to them.
EDIT: also look at EU all logging on like clockwork, that's crazy..........We are still waiting for a data stream for Veng2 where more stuttering issues were seen, people pointing towards the group aoe hots/dots added with resto and alliance skills. In the direct livestream zos does state they can look at these stutters and see what effects and skills were commonly going off. LINK
Your posts in regards to vengeance are not accurate or reflective of the PvP population in any way.5 -
exiars10✭✭✭✭@fizzybeef
I was obviously sarcastic about dead game but before that I was serious.
I post and will continue to post situation on PC EU for the archive and for the future discussions to counter narrative on Reddit and here how nobody played and likes Vengeance.Edited by exiars10 on 25 September 2025 18:38Aldmeri Dominion (PC EU via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
fizzybeef✭✭✭✭@fizzybeef
I was obviously sarcastic about dead game but before that I was serious.
I post and will continue to post situation on PC EU for the archive and for the future discussions to counter narrative on Reddit and here how nobody played and likes Vengeance.
So youre sticking your nose into something youre not involved, effected or adressed 😂 Have fun.
Doesn‘t change the fact on console vengeance is dead but at least we are left out for december, you can keep enjoying it then 😘2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
You stated that you knew what the caps were when you have no idea what they are. You are wishcasting and defending provably false statements in your ferver to promote a failed game model.
I neither said they restored population to 600 nor that Vengeance had the most players in Cyrodiil ever. Second was just part of quote, first one not even that. I know cap was 600 in 2014 and cap now is lower.
Brian Wheeler probably forgot what was2014 or ignored it to make overstatement sounding more impressive. That doesn’t invalidate the statement than Vengeance had three times the capacity of normal campaign.
You don’t need exact numbers for relative comparison like figuring out that with 3 times the capacity 1 bar vengeance is 3 bar Grey Host.
With 3x the capacity and most common estimate beeing 80 and 20 per bar that makes Vengeance capacity 240 and 60 per bar.
There is no evidence that ZOS reduced the cap between Vengeance versions.
A player asked for source and I gave them source from the maker of test. Now you deny official source from ZOS, call me liar and come up with your own made up numbers.
They said double standartcampaign capacity was in a single Vengeance battle not in the whole campaign so your numbers are false.
It is not me who is wishcasting to promote failed game model.1 -
Udrath✭✭✭✭What have they done with testing? Have they implemented anything into the game from testing? Did it fix or change any on going issues?
So far little to nothing it seems. And now I am under impression that because some people like vengeance, they want to change course and make it a permanent part of the game.
There is no point of trying to convince them about anything because they don’t know anything about pvp, or listen to the long time pvpers. Now people are finally quitting for good because ZOS keeps doing carrot on the stick. It shouldn’t take a company this many years to fix pvp, unless it’s a problem that cannot be fixed or to costly to fix.
They have been saying we’re working on it for to long, but no real major changes have been shown. They just keep introducing more pvp imbalance features behind a pay wall as usual.
Mythics, hybridisation, subpathing have all been terrible for pvp, and they finally divide the PvP community with vengeance. Great workEdited by Udrath on 26 September 2025 00:561 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭JustLovely wrote: »MincMincMinc wrote: »AngryPenguin wrote: »MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
???MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »
I know OP is PS player.
They, console players post here on forum how:
1) Nobody plays Vengeance, and
2) Many of them posted how their PvP guilds are boycotting Vengeance.
So narrative here is that, logically, players reject Vengeance test and is obviously a failure.
Except, I posted that PC EU has 3 bars for each faction in prime time, and Vengeance 1 bar = 3 bars normally.
Screenshot is from the last evening from obviously PC EU just to show that there are players who play and enjoy Vengeance.
So, this projection from consoles how Vengeance is a failure is not true for PC EU mega server, and again PC EU mega server has officially the biggest player population.
And where do you have from that 3 bars in gh are 1 bar in vengeance?
Seems like youre just making up things because you dont like the opinions others have.
Its more like the OP is saying Consoles dont like vengeance since nobody is playing it and youre just projecting it to PC claiming people are liking it.
Different audition, different circumstances, different opinionsCatoUnchained wrote: »
You don't know this. Or if you do, please cite your resource. You appear to be stating a feeling and not a fact, so please show us where you're getting your information and how it's not just your wish or feeling.
Sure I have Source: It was stated by ZOS.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/675548Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign- We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign.
Best overall game performance we’ve ever seen in Cyrodiil- We had three times the number of players in a single Cyrodiil campaign with little to no performance problems.
You didn't read that statement very carefully at all, and that that statement is in reference to vengeance 1, not vengeance 3 that we are on now. At no point in the statement you quoted does ZOS say what the pop caps were or are. If you read carefully they aren't talking about restoring populations to the 600/faction that original cyrodiil had. They're saying there is a higher population cap than right before the test. The statement from zos "Most players ever in Cyrodiil at one time, in a single campaign
We were able to hit triple the amount of players that is currently possible in a single Cyrodiil campaign." is easily proven false. (they doubled the pop cap of 50-60 players/ faction right before the test to make the statement technically accurate, but wildly misinformative at the same time. If they doubled the pop caps prior to vengeance 1 for the test, the pop cap was still only 100-120/faction. Also, most commenters of ZOS statement you quoted stepped back and pointed out how inaccurate many of those statements that were made really are at the time the statements were posted.
The only info we have to go on is around launch with the beta tests in similar conditions to vengeance gamedesign wise they were able to hit 1800 players which was stated by the devs at the time. This can still be found somewhere on the ESO website if I recall LINK From the livestream statements at one point in initial vengeance testing they had exceeded this value (600 per faction) however it was unstable and they had to reduce it to around 3x or 4x live cyrodil's stable population.
Through addons which have been brought up and discussed numerous times on here we can gather that on PCNA we are in the realm of around 100 players. Keep in mind the dips in every day pop and the accuracy of the addons may be off by a few. We could guess that there is going to be an even number like 100 or maybe it is 10x 12 person groups so 120 players roughly.
The Data livestream showed a population comparison for the first test vs greyhost pop caps. Initially they were unfiltered but below is after they settled on a vengeance baseline pop cap. If we were to assume live is at best 120 and the blurred out intervals are 100 divisions that would land vengeance pop cap stable at 350 or 360 players per faction. Which is our 3x number.
This baseline pop cap for testing would be maintained to compare subsequent tests. If we want to talk 1-2 bar I dont think zos ever explained what these bars mean. Plenty of speculation in the past is that the bar system doesn't work considering weve seen lowpop bonuses and 1 bar with massive guilds on before. is 1 bar 25%, 2 bar 50%, 3 bar 75%.....who knows? If so 1 bar of 360 would be up to 90 people per faction 2 bar would be 180. Seeing this test sit with 1-2 bar no incentives is atleast on par with greyhost population wise. We will see what happens in the week 2 of test 4 when we have GH vs veng. Judging by the data we will see about even populations, probably pointing zos towards having veng replace the dead u50 and nocp campaigns so new players have a form of cyrodil open to them.
EDIT: also look at EU all logging on like clockwork, that's crazy..........We are still waiting for a data stream for Veng2 where more stuttering issues were seen, people pointing towards the group aoe hots/dots added with resto and alliance skills. In the direct livestream zos does state they can look at these stutters and see what effects and skills were commonly going off. LINK
Your posts in regards to vengeance are not accurate or reflective of the PvP population in any way.
Was I speaking to the pvp population? No, I quite literally laid out all the data we have access to for comparing the population numbers.
I specifically avoid trying to make generalized statements like how people claim all pvpers don't like vengeance. You can disagree if you like, but misinterpreting what i say is just bad faith for the purpose of being abrasive.Edited by MincMincMinc on 26 September 2025 02:35Zos should hire pvp consultants0
