moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I love how ZOS absolutely refuse to let players know what the pop cap is for Cyrodiil, as if it is some state secret.
We should try to find out by having an entire guild log into Cyrodiil when it is zero bars and see how many get in before there is a queue.

this is good to see when the campaign begins and ppl apear in leaderboard. 50 players sre two bars, everything above 75 three bars , queue at 100

Did they seriously release vengeance during Undaunted Celebration event? Who the **** is making these decisions?

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

I love how ZOS absolutely refuse to let players know what the pop cap is for Cyrodiil, as if it is some state secret.
We should try to find out by having an entire guild log into Cyrodiil when it is zero bars and see how many get in before there is a queue.

In 2013 it was officially stated at 600 per alliance, but due to performance issues they lowered that more and more. Live is around 75 players per alliance, though Vengeance has been estimated to be back up to about 300 per alliance.

It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.

The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.

The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.

alternatelder wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.

The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.

The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.

So pve people like it because otherwise they are killed by...skilled people in a normal mode. But pvp people don't like it because it's dumbed down and now everyone is on even playing field? Is that how I see this argument? So where was that skill coming from? Dare I say...sets and overtuned skills were carrying people?

Nope. Because any PvE player could use the same overtuned sets and skills, and would still lose against the skilled player. There is much more to it. Movement for example, the abillity to know when to cast what, keep buffs running without running out of Ressources. Its a matter of training. Sets and Skills are equal for everyone anyway, just copy a build.

And here I thought the population bars were broke as I have not seen a single bar for any alliance on PS NA.
Do they work? lol

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Personally I enjoyed the big scale battles in the past Vengeance test on console. I entered Cyro immediately this time too, hyped up... But it was way emptier than last time.
I don't know why, many factors for sure, but the fact is even those who are willing to play "can't" due to the low population. This time felt depressing. Last time felt better.
I'll check in the weekend maybe...

It's not that deep.

One thing that this test makes very clear is that people go where the best rewards are that require the least effort.

It's with every game like that in 2025.

That is also why there a so many complaints about 'meta'. People play meta because it gives you the most rewards (XP, gold, loot, materials, TelVar etc) per hour played because you can clear content more efficient.

I wonder how the stress test is going with the whole 6 DC who played vengeance today.

Are you sure the problem is population and not the leaderboard itself? It definitely didn't seem to update very much last vengeance anyway.

Personally I enjoyed the last test and as others have said, the Undaunted event is the only reason I haven't got around to joining again this time. The golden pursuit was nice but finished very quickly, so not sure it's the only reason it was busy last time

Dont you get asked if you want to set it as home campaign? Or at least its fat on the screen, i wouldnt see why someone would not set it tbh.

So everyone but these brave 6 just forgot i guess

Treeshka wrote: »

I doubt they will have leaderboard rewards. Also emperorship is disabled anyway.

No but if you make points youre automaticly in the leaderboard. There is nobody making points means there is nobody playing

But this is the FuTuRe

If you assign vengeance as home campaign it stays but need to do it one time.

Yesterday were 30 ish dc in the leaderboard late evening.

But we can also just pretend everyone keeps forgetting what they have done for years, signing up for a campaign.

L_Nici wrote: »

It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.

The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.

The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.

I may be alone in this, but I have another reason why I'm not PvPing to add to the list. Sub-classing.

Combat is the reason I play this game (both PvE and PvP). The big recent change to combat recently was sub-classing. Not only did sub-classing completely disrupt every single build I have, it came with significant grinding/leveling to use it properly - both to unlock all the lines, and also to obtain more skill points on my alts.

Imagine wanting to work on modernizing your PvP builds after this big update, and then not being able to use them because the Vengeance test dumbs down and templatizes your character. Additionally, even when Vengeance isn't active, unless I've missed it, we have had no assurances that the plan for end game is to leave builds wide open in PvP, or any kind of warning/confirmation that if it's not possible to improve performance without simplifying our builds, that the priority will be performance. Not being able to use updated builds, or knowing if the work to update all of my characters will be wasted at the end of these tests, has completely taken away any drive to focus on PvP. Not to mention the fact that there's no continuity now between PvP setups in Cyro vs. the other forms of PvP when Vengeance is active.

It's just so frustrating. I don't have enough free time to invest in a content style which is so disrupted, with such an uncertain future, that periodically doesn't even allow me to fully leverage the all the combat choices available in the game. Sorry, ZOS, but flinging putrefied meat isn't enough to keep my interest. It's been long enough... I want my full abilities back. I want to use all the combinations and options promised to the community in Cyro as part of the sub-classing update!