tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

Which is a problem with how Subclassing was done - if a lot of skill lines get nerfed because you could mix them with others, and then you don't, that means you get a nerf for nothing.

That's the issue a lot of people have with Subclassing. "Just stick with your pure class!" is what some people want to do. Saying it as "Just eat a bunch of nerfs and be 25% behind where you currently are and about 50% behind the sweats!" makes it obvious why people are salty.

Sure, but a casual player that does Overland and normal dungeons, etc. will likely never even notice the nerf unless they read the patch notes.

SilverBride wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Worst change in 11 years a big stretch.

For me it is. Class identity means something to me. I will not diminish that by using skills from other classes.

Sorcerers get a pass because they actually are an historical TES class but what exactly is a Templar? Or a Dragonknight, or a Warden, etc. These classes straight-up don't exist in TES, they are simply cobbled-together pastiches ported in from other fantasy worlds because, "MMOs are expected to have classes".

You shouldn't discount the legions of players that think that classes in ESO are antithetical to the spirit of TES and a slap to the original classes that built that franchise. What would have been so wrong with using Crusader, Witchhunter, Monk, etc. instead of Templars and such.

And so subclassing gives players much more freedom to pursue those sorts of ideas rather than being forced to use a skill simply because they had to choose a class and that class has only its tiny range of skills.

SilverBride wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Worst change in 11 years a big stretch.

For me it is. Class identity means something to me. I will not diminish that by using skills from other classes.

Well fortunately for you the sorcer class still has a very effective kit, even if slightly more balanced, that you don't need to subclass if you don't want to.

Personally, the only class where you're probably going to be at a huge disadvantage if you don't subclass is the necro class.

sarahthes wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

If only that were possible.

But as @tomofhyrule pointed out, skills are being nerfed which results in pure classes being 25% behind where we currently are.

The sorc tears are a bit over the top, the class was overperforming for ages and should have been nerfed down a while ago. None of the sorc nerfs are that over the top and the class is still going to be very strong next patch even without subclassing on it.

The sorc tears are indeed not over the top, their class is gutted next patch with subclassing.

The pets being double bar still is a violation of human rights at this point in the game

The fact that all of your important skills are split between all 3 skill lines means you kinda always lose something if you subclass too. Nightblade assassination for example gives you access to basically the entire nightblade offensive kit in 1 skill line, or restoring light on Templar which basically gives you the entire defensive kit of Templar in 1 skill line.

The skill lines need to be balanced against each other and currently they are VERY far from it

This is quite a myopic view. The NB assination tree might be stacked with offensive skills but you're lacking major brutality and savagery which you need to max out the damage from that tree. To get both, you'll either need to keep both other trees, use potions (expensive for 100% uptime), oakensoul (constrains your skill choices) swap out gear sets or lose a skill slot on each bar.

In pve most classes use Crit and brutality pots anyway so this is fine imo but I agree every class should have access to those buffs on more useful skills

Not in endgame. We use tripots or heroism pots.

Yea your not catching me chugging heroism pots unless they being payed for and donated to me lmao

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Not in endgame. We use tripots or heroism pots.

In endgame,Sorc still need use Crit and brutality pots, and even Warden DD uses them.

MK sorc runs it on knife. And warden DD isn't present in endgame at this time, except in meme runs.

sarahthes wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

If only that were possible.

But as @tomofhyrule pointed out, skills are being nerfed which results in pure classes being 25% behind where we currently are.

The sorc tears are a bit over the top, the class was overperforming for ages and should have been nerfed down a while ago. None of the sorc nerfs are that over the top and the class is still going to be very strong next patch even without subclassing on it.

The sorc tears are indeed not over the top, their class is gutted next patch with subclassing.

The pets being double bar still is a violation of human rights at this point in the game

The fact that all of your important skills are split between all 3 skill lines means you kinda always lose something if you subclass too. Nightblade assassination for example gives you access to basically the entire nightblade offensive kit in 1 skill line, or restoring light on Templar which basically gives you the entire defensive kit of Templar in 1 skill line.

The skill lines need to be balanced against each other and currently they are VERY far from it

This is quite a myopic view. The NB assination tree might be stacked with offensive skills but you're lacking major brutality and savagery which you need to max out the damage from that tree. To get both, you'll either need to keep both other trees, use potions (expensive for 100% uptime), oakensoul (constrains your skill choices) swap out gear sets or lose a skill slot on each bar.

In pve most classes use Crit and brutality pots anyway so this is fine imo but I agree every class should have access to those buffs on more useful skills

Not in endgame. We use tripots or heroism pots.

Yea your not catching me chugging heroism pots unless they being payed for and donated to me lmao

In all but cores usually heroism banner is run, so you would use tripots in that case (not weapon or spell power pots).

I use vendor pots if I don’t need brutality pots bcs tri pots are still expensive [snip]

[edited for profanity bypass]

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

Which is a problem with how Subclassing was done - if a lot of skill lines get nerfed because you could mix them with others, and then you don't, that means you get a nerf for nothing.

That's the issue a lot of people have with Subclassing. "Just stick with your pure class!" is what some people want to do. Saying it as "Just eat a bunch of nerfs and be 25% behind where you currently are and about 50% behind the sweats!" makes it obvious why people are salty.

Sure, but a casual player that does Overland and normal dungeons, etc. will likely never even notice the nerf unless they read the patch notes.

There are more people who play the game than ultra-casuals who won't notice nerfs and ultra-sweats who will not permit a 0.0001% deviation from the meta.

Dragonknight sustain (as in, the Combustion and Battle Roar passives) is being nerfed massively - over 25% in the case of Battle Roar and over 50% for Combustion. Those will be noticeable, especially since the reasoning was "because you can get more ult generation from other places!" and then the major gear set that gives ult gen (Pillagers) was then also nerfed.
But at least they reduced the cost of two skills. Fortunately every DK is a DD so they will not be affected, right?

And regarding the "waah, the sweats are the ones who don't allow any deviation from the meta!": Most of the ultra-sweaty groups I know have requirements of 'have a good parse and do your stuff.' A lot of people bring Arc because it's high damage and low effort, but I know plenty of people who bring off-Classes to trial tris.
The "you must have the meta or I kick you!" are the thinks-they'-re-better-than-they-are raid leads are the ones who think there's one way and one way only to do everything, and they're the ones who demand everyone follow the meta (even if it means that they're technically getting less damage because they're forcing people into off-roles. But why should they take a 120k DPS Necro when they could have an 80k DPS Arc instead?

Any guesses on which group will post in the Group Finder for runs? I know it'll be fun when all of the "no groups are letting me bring my Oakensorc build into trials because they're all toxic sweatlords!" posts end up becoming "no groups are letting me bring my elementalist build into trials" threads.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Worst change in 11 years a big stretch.

For me it is. Class identity means something to me. I will not diminish that by using skills from other classes.

Sorcerers get a pass because they actually are an historical TES class but what exactly is a Templar? Or a Dragonknight, or a Warden, etc. These classes straight-up don't exist in TES, they are simply cobbled-together pastiches ported in from other fantasy worlds because, "MMOs are expected to have classes".

You shouldn't discount the legions of players that think that classes in ESO are antithetical to the spirit of TES and a slap to the original classes that built that franchise. What would have been so wrong with using Crusader, Witchhunter, Monk, etc. instead of Templars and such.

And so subclassing gives players much more freedom to pursue those sorts of ideas rather than being forced to use a skill simply because they had to choose a class and that class has only its tiny range of skills.

First issue: all of the Classes are absolutely in the lore, because ESO is canon. Each one got several lorebooks detailing how they came about written by Lawrence Schick (aka ESO's first Loremaster), e.g. Dragonknights are following Akaviri traditions, Templars are invoking the aura of Stendarr, and the like. You're also pretending that Sorcerers are the 'only original' class, as if Nightblades weren't an Elder Scrolls thing since Arena. And while Necromancers may not have been a playable class per se, they were always around (again, since Arena) and did exist as NPC classes (since NPCs needed to have a Class to dictate their spells) and Conjuration (including that of undead) has been playable since Morrowind. And yes, there are lorebooks for Wardens implying a relationship with Y'ffre and Arcanists which obviously have relations with Hermaeus Mora.
Or are you implying that if something didn't exist in previous games that it can't be Canon, in which case please explain how the Thu'um was allowed to exist in Skyrim since it wasn't even mentioned in Arena or Daggerfall.

Now, to the point: as much as you want to strawman every person raising issues as "a hater," there are very few people who thing Subclassing is wholly bad (yes, there are some people who think so, but I'm sure most people would be amenable to it). Most of them only want Subclassing to be balanced. If it were properly balanced, such that a pure Class and a Subclassed build were able to perform comparatively and it didn't feel like pure Classes were being destroyed to make room for the new shiny, then a lot more people would like it. More importantly, there wouldn't be another imminent threat of an endgame exodus... which people also said wouldn't be a problem after U35, and yet those effects are still being felt by everyone who wants to get into vet content.

Even consider: Subclassing as it is is still not completely free. Why not be able to trade all three lines? Why not be able to take multiple lines from the same parent Class? Why is it doubly expensive for no reason? A lot of people would like even more freedom than Subclassing is giving them. After all, if someone wanted to make a Druid with Green Balance, Earthen Heart, and Winter's Embrace, they still need to have a Warden as the base because they can't take two Warden lines otherwise.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

Which is a problem with how Subclassing was done - if a lot of skill lines get nerfed because you could mix them with others, and then you don't, that means you get a nerf for nothing.

That's the issue a lot of people have with Subclassing. "Just stick with your pure class!" is what some people want to do. Saying it as "Just eat a bunch of nerfs and be 25% behind where you currently are and about 50% behind the sweats!" makes it obvious why people are salty.

Sure, but a casual player that does Overland and normal dungeons, etc. will likely never even notice the nerf unless they read the patch notes.

There are more people who play the game than ultra-casuals who won't notice nerfs and ultra-sweats who will not permit a 0.0001% deviation from the meta.

Dragonknight sustain (as in, the Combustion and Battle Roar passives) is being nerfed massively - over 25% in the case of Battle Roar and over 50% for Combustion. Those will be noticeable, especially since the reasoning was "because you can get more ult generation from other places!" and then the major gear set that gives ult gen (Pillagers) was then also nerfed.
But at least they reduced the cost of two skills. Fortunately every DK is a DD so they will not be affected, right?

And regarding the "waah, the sweats are the ones who don't allow any deviation from the meta!": Most of the ultra-sweaty groups I know have requirements of 'have a good parse and do your stuff.' A lot of people bring Arc because it's high damage and low effort, but I know plenty of people who bring off-Classes to trial tris.
The "you must have the meta or I kick you!" are the thinks-they'-re-better-than-they-are raid leads are the ones who think there's one way and one way only to do everything, and they're the ones who demand everyone follow the meta (even if it means that they're technically getting less damage because they're forcing people into off-roles. But why should they take a 120k DPS Necro when they could have an 80k DPS Arc instead?

Any guesses on which group will post in the Group Finder for runs? I know it'll be fun when all of the "no groups are letting me bring my Oakensorc build into trials because they're all toxic sweatlords!" posts end up becoming "no groups are letting me bring my elementalist build into trials" threads.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Worst change in 11 years a big stretch.

For me it is. Class identity means something to me. I will not diminish that by using skills from other classes.

Sorcerers get a pass because they actually are an historical TES class but what exactly is a Templar? Or a Dragonknight, or a Warden, etc. These classes straight-up don't exist in TES, they are simply cobbled-together pastiches ported in from other fantasy worlds because, "MMOs are expected to have classes".

You shouldn't discount the legions of players that think that classes in ESO are antithetical to the spirit of TES and a slap to the original classes that built that franchise. What would have been so wrong with using Crusader, Witchhunter, Monk, etc. instead of Templars and such.

And so subclassing gives players much more freedom to pursue those sorts of ideas rather than being forced to use a skill simply because they had to choose a class and that class has only its tiny range of skills.

First issue: all of the Classes are absolutely in the lore, because ESO is canon. Each one got several lorebooks detailing how they came about written by Lawrence Schick (aka ESO's first Loremaster), e.g. Dragonknights are following Akaviri traditions, Templars are invoking the aura of Stendarr, and the like. You're also pretending that Sorcerers are the 'only original' class, as if Nightblades weren't an Elder Scrolls thing since Arena. And while Necromancers may not have been a playable class per se, they were always around (again, since Arena) and did exist as NPC classes (since NPCs needed to have a Class to dictate their spells) and Conjuration (including that of undead) has been playable since Morrowind. And yes, there are lorebooks for Wardens implying a relationship with Y'ffre and Arcanists which obviously have relations with Hermaeus Mora.
Or are you implying that if something didn't exist in previous games that it can't be Canon, in which case please explain how the Thu'um was allowed to exist in Skyrim since it wasn't even mentioned in Arena or Daggerfall.

Now, to the point: as much as you want to strawman every person raising issues as "a hater," there are very few people who thing Subclassing is wholly bad (yes, there are some people who think so, but I'm sure most people would be amenable to it). Most of them only want Subclassing to be balanced. If it were properly balanced, such that a pure Class and a Subclassed build were able to perform comparatively and it didn't feel like pure Classes were being destroyed to make room for the new shiny, then a lot more people would like it. More importantly, there wouldn't be another imminent threat of an endgame exodus... which people also said wouldn't be a problem after U35, and yet those effects are still being felt by everyone who wants to get into vet content.

Even consider: Subclassing as it is is still not completely free. Why not be able to trade all three lines? Why not be able to take multiple lines from the same parent Class? Why is it doubly expensive for no reason? A lot of people would like even more freedom than Subclassing is giving them. After all, if someone wanted to make a Druid with Green Balance, Earthen Heart, and Winter's Embrace, they still need to have a Warden as the base because they can't take two Warden lines otherwise.

I agree with you that pure classes shouldn't receive nerfs simply because they can be leveraged by subclassing in particular ways. As a Necro enjoyer, I know about these drive-by nerfs quite well. And, of course, it is hard to find anyone opposed to achieving better and more thoughtful balance.

But I can't go there with you on the merit of the classes. ESO being canon is just... be real, it's a hand-wave to sidestep having to be bound by prior lore. It's done this way so that none of the lore choices matter. They could make a Dwemertech Dragonborn class that could polymorph into Alduin and fly around while Thu'uming and call it canon if they wanted to but it wouldn't change the fundamental reality that it would be goofy as heck and a huge eye-roll for anyone for anyone invested in prior series lore.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Subclassing could never be fun for everyone because not everyone is into theorycrafting. Just the thought of having to do that kills my desire to play at all.

Then just stick with your pure class. Problem solved. EZ.

Which is a problem with how Subclassing was done - if a lot of skill lines get nerfed because you could mix them with others, and then you don't, that means you get a nerf for nothing.

That's the issue a lot of people have with Subclassing. "Just stick with your pure class!" is what some people want to do. Saying it as "Just eat a bunch of nerfs and be 25% behind where you currently are and about 50% behind the sweats!" makes it obvious why people are salty.

Sure, but a casual player that does Overland and normal dungeons, etc. will likely never even notice the nerf unless they read the patch notes.

There are more people who play the game than ultra-casuals who won't notice nerfs and ultra-sweats who will not permit a 0.0001% deviation from the meta.

Dragonknight sustain (as in, the Combustion and Battle Roar passives) is being nerfed massively - over 25% in the case of Battle Roar and over 50% for Combustion. Those will be noticeable, especially since the reasoning was "because you can get more ult generation from other places!" and then the major gear set that gives ult gen (Pillagers) was then also nerfed.
But at least they reduced the cost of two skills. Fortunately every DK is a DD so they will not be affected, right?

And regarding the "waah, the sweats are the ones who don't allow any deviation from the meta!": Most of the ultra-sweaty groups I know have requirements of 'have a good parse and do your stuff.' A lot of people bring Arc because it's high damage and low effort, but I know plenty of people who bring off-Classes to trial tris.
The "you must have the meta or I kick you!" are the thinks-they'-re-better-than-they-are raid leads are the ones who think there's one way and one way only to do everything, and they're the ones who demand everyone follow the meta (even if it means that they're technically getting less damage because they're forcing people into off-roles. But why should they take a 120k DPS Necro when they could have an 80k DPS Arc instead?

Any guesses on which group will post in the Group Finder for runs? I know it'll be fun when all of the "no groups are letting me bring my Oakensorc build into trials because they're all toxic sweatlords!" posts end up becoming "no groups are letting me bring my elementalist build into trials" threads.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

Worst change in 11 years a big stretch.

For me it is. Class identity means something to me. I will not diminish that by using skills from other classes.

Sorcerers get a pass because they actually are an historical TES class but what exactly is a Templar? Or a Dragonknight, or a Warden, etc. These classes straight-up don't exist in TES, they are simply cobbled-together pastiches ported in from other fantasy worlds because, "MMOs are expected to have classes".

You shouldn't discount the legions of players that think that classes in ESO are antithetical to the spirit of TES and a slap to the original classes that built that franchise. What would have been so wrong with using Crusader, Witchhunter, Monk, etc. instead of Templars and such.

And so subclassing gives players much more freedom to pursue those sorts of ideas rather than being forced to use a skill simply because they had to choose a class and that class has only its tiny range of skills.

First issue: all of the Classes are absolutely in the lore, because ESO is canon. Each one got several lorebooks detailing how they came about written by Lawrence Schick (aka ESO's first Loremaster), e.g. Dragonknights are following Akaviri traditions, Templars are invoking the aura of Stendarr, and the like. You're also pretending that Sorcerers are the 'only original' class, as if Nightblades weren't an Elder Scrolls thing since Arena. And while Necromancers may not have been a playable class per se, they were always around (again, since Arena) and did exist as NPC classes (since NPCs needed to have a Class to dictate their spells) and Conjuration (including that of undead) has been playable since Morrowind. And yes, there are lorebooks for Wardens implying a relationship with Y'ffre and Arcanists which obviously have relations with Hermaeus Mora.
Or are you implying that if something didn't exist in previous games that it can't be Canon, in which case please explain how the Thu'um was allowed to exist in Skyrim since it wasn't even mentioned in Arena or Daggerfall.

Now, to the point: as much as you want to strawman every person raising issues as "a hater," there are very few people who thing Subclassing is wholly bad (yes, there are some people who think so, but I'm sure most people would be amenable to it). Most of them only want Subclassing to be balanced. If it were properly balanced, such that a pure Class and a Subclassed build were able to perform comparatively and it didn't feel like pure Classes were being destroyed to make room for the new shiny, then a lot more people would like it. More importantly, there wouldn't be another imminent threat of an endgame exodus... which people also said wouldn't be a problem after U35, and yet those effects are still being felt by everyone who wants to get into vet content.

Even consider: Subclassing as it is is still not completely free. Why not be able to trade all three lines? Why not be able to take multiple lines from the same parent Class? Why is it doubly expensive for no reason? A lot of people would like even more freedom than Subclassing is giving them. After all, if someone wanted to make a Druid with Green Balance, Earthen Heart, and Winter's Embrace, they still need to have a Warden as the base because they can't take two Warden lines otherwise.

I agree with you that pure classes shouldn't receive nerfs simply because they can be leveraged by subclassing in particular ways. As a Necro enjoyer, I know about these drive-by nerfs quite well. And, of course, it is hard to find anyone opposed to achieving better and more thoughtful balance.

But I can't go there with you on the merit of the classes. ESO being canon is just... be real, it's a hand-wave to sidestep having to be bound by prior lore. It's done this way so that none of the lore choices matter. They could make a Dwemertech Dragonborn class that could polymorph into Alduin and fly around while Thu'uming and call it canon if they wanted to but it wouldn't change the fundamental reality that it would be goofy as heck and a huge eye-roll for anyone for anyone invested in prior series lore.

Saying eso lore is cannon is the same as Disney trying to call the Star Wars sequels and the acolytes cannon.

Subclassing is really fun and i'm looking forward to it.

If, and this is a big if, ZoS continue to work on subclassing and address the skill lines which perform poorly, like dark magic, AND they look at over performing skill lines like herald and assassination, then not only should the system be more fun and interesting, but it should also address the "pure" class balance.

but we'll see. if they just throw it out in it's current state and don't do anything to polish it in the next few updates, then the dissatisfaction is justified in my opinion.

as always, it's up to ZoS.

Another angle to look at it is to ask yourself why they didn’t do it sooner then if it is so good? It takes little resources.
It’s not super hard to come up with such idea either so it wasn’t that they just had eureka moment.

They must have already thought about it when the initial concepts of the game systems were designed, spellmaking, and discarded it. Why now?

Will it now be better for some reason?

Or maybe, it is simply some kind of short-term attempt to pull new and returning players in. I hope not but what else it could be? I assume that there was a very good reason why we didn’t have this system for 10 years. Suddenly it changed just as the game got allocated less resources because of new mmo in the making and lost some players. Coincidence?

Of course it could also be that higher ups gave more freedom to devs as they don’t care as much about eso anymore, priorities changed and so now devs can finally do something they always wanted.

NoSoup wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

I feel kind of bad for the devs, I mean it doesn't seem like they're reading any of our feedback anyway, but I bet it sucks to read so much negative feedback on multiclassing. I don't know who at the company is at fault for pushing this multiclassing garbage before it's ready, or why they wouldn't tell us how they think it's going to affect the game (it seems they hadn't even thought it through), but there might actually be some reasonable folks at the company who probably get a little bummed out to know they're working on something that will make the game less fun for many players because it's not ready yet.

Well to be fair, for every negative whinge I see, I see a positive post to counter the said negative whinge.

Wrong again. You can't counter a negative post with a positive one, no amount of blind cheerleading will make a poor multiclass implementation fun for many players. You can't talk people into having fun with a system they've already tried and know isn't fun for them.

sarahthes wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

I feel kind of bad for the devs, I mean it doesn't seem like they're reading any of our feedback anyway, but I bet it sucks to read so much negative feedback on multiclassing. I don't know who at the company is at fault for pushing this multiclassing garbage before it's ready, or why they wouldn't tell us how they think it's going to affect the game (it seems they hadn't even thought it through), but there might actually be some reasonable folks at the company who probably get a little bummed out to know they're working on something that will make the game less fun for many players because it's not ready yet.

Well to be fair, for every negative whinge I see, I see a positive post to counter the said negative whinge.

Wrong again. You can't counter a negative post with a positive one, no amount of blind cheerleading will make a poor multiclass implementation fun for many players. You can't talk people into having fun with a system they've already tried and know isn't fun for them.

Most of the people I know complaining either haven't tried it at all, or tried it for 20 minutes pts week one and drew all their conclusions from that.

Yeah, it's true that there are some people who have enough experience in the game to look at the changes in the patch notes and see why the multiclassing will lead to a drastic unpleasant shift for them. I'm not that clever and needed a few hours to try it and hate it.

sarahthes wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

I feel kind of bad for the devs, I mean it doesn't seem like they're reading any of our feedback anyway, but I bet it sucks to read so much negative feedback on multiclassing. I don't know who at the company is at fault for pushing this multiclassing garbage before it's ready, or why they wouldn't tell us how they think it's going to affect the game (it seems they hadn't even thought it through), but there might actually be some reasonable folks at the company who probably get a little bummed out to know they're working on something that will make the game less fun for many players because it's not ready yet.

Well to be fair, for every negative whinge I see, I see a positive post to counter the said negative whinge.

Wrong again. You can't counter a negative post with a positive one, no amount of blind cheerleading will make a poor multiclass implementation fun for many players. You can't talk people into having fun with a system they've already tried and know isn't fun for them.

Most of the people I know complaining either haven't tried it at all, or tried it for 20 minutes pts week one and drew all their conclusions from that.

Yeah, it's true that there are some people who have enough experience in the game to look at the changes in the patch notes and see why the multiclassing will lead to a drastic unpleasant shift for them. I'm not that clever and needed a few hours to try it and hate it.

Most of the endgame community is interested to see how we can break content with the higher damage and that, and theorycrafting raid comps (which is what some people do for fun) is our weighing any concerns they may have.

Yep, I can see tons of ways people will find it fun. It just sucks that it comes at a cost to other players fun when ZOS could have spent more time with it and made it fun for more folks. But I'm glad some folks will have fun with it.

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

SaintJohnHM wrote: »

I feel kind of bad for the devs, I mean it doesn't seem like they're reading any of our feedback anyway, but I bet it sucks to read so much negative feedback on multiclassing. I don't know who at the company is at fault for pushing this multiclassing garbage before it's ready, or why they wouldn't tell us how they think it's going to affect the game (it seems they hadn't even thought it through), but there might actually be some reasonable folks at the company who probably get a little bummed out to know they're working on something that will make the game less fun for many players because it's not ready yet.

Well to be fair, for every negative whinge I see, I see a positive post to counter the said negative whinge.

Wrong again. You can't counter a negative post with a positive one, no amount of blind cheerleading will make a poor multiclass implementation fun for many players. You can't talk people into having fun with a system they've already tried and know isn't fun for them.

Most of the people I know complaining either haven't tried it at all, or tried it for 20 minutes pts week one and drew all their conclusions from that.

Yeah, it's true that there are some people who have enough experience in the game to look at the changes in the patch notes and see why the multiclassing will lead to a drastic unpleasant shift for them. I'm not that clever and needed a few hours to try it and hate it.

You mean the same people that said the Vengence campaign was going to be a waste of time, unfun and would ultimately kill off PVP entirely? Yeah, those same people were so right about "what a failure venegence would be".....

I think zos is underestimating how many end game pvpers (and probably overs) they are about to lose next update.