Cyrodiil without cheating
Tigor
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Cyrodiil can't stay alive as long the cheating is not dealt with.
Edited by Tigor on 22 December 2024 12:02 GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)
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Tigor✭✭✭
Every form that does make players feel treated unfair.GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)5 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, I doubt they'd ever try to enforce IP locks for campaigns too, so I doubt they'd be able to address the hardcore PvP guilds that rotate faction fights based on guild events.1 -
Tigor✭✭✭Running already often in the same players, then I hear the sighing in the background. As if the outcomes are already decided before the start.GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)3
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Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is this another "people are killing me so they must be cheating" thread?PC/EU, StamSorc Main31 -
Tigor✭✭✭It is about more fair outcomes.Edited by Tigor on 22 December 2024 12:04GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)2
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Running already often in the same players, then I hear the sighing in the background. As if the outcomes are already decided before the start.
The outcomes are generally fair, players who spend more time learning the game and theorycrafting setups etc will generally have better outcomes then those copying a setup and not understanding their characters.
There are players who do cheat still playing, an example of which would be synergy macros which unfortunately some groups use and ZOS could do a better job of monitoring this.
But also with the amount of players left playing cyrodiil you're always going to fight the same players these days without much variety of encounter.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)19 -
Tigor✭✭✭I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESOGM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree
The main aspect is more about making an effort to try and understand why choices are made. One of the biggest problems when trying to train newer players in group play for example is to teach them why different choices are made, rather than just sticking them in a setup and telling them to spam a button (not very effective).
I think players could generally improve in this area even if they can't initially come up with the idea on what to run independently.
There are a lot of tools to aid this (such as the combat log) and it should be a factor in determining combat outcomes.
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)2 -
Tigor✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree
The main aspect is more about making an effort to try and understand why choices are made. One of the biggest problems when trying to train newer players in group play for example is to teach them why different choices are made, rather than just sticking them in a setup and telling them to spam a button (not very effective).
I think players could generally improve in this area even if they can't initially come up with the idea on what to run independently.
There are a lot of tools to aid this (such as the combat log) and it should be a factor in determining combat outcomes.
I belief that tools for determining the best choices are not available for, or not familiar to everyone and that is the real unfair factor. Many players like to put there own creativity in the game. If that is not possible they are not feeling happy if opponents are using something Indescribable.
GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Keep in mind in 2025 they said they're changing Cyrodiil so every class has their skills replaced with PvP specific skills.
It's going to be ESO Call of Duty with proc sets.2 -
Zabagad✭✭✭✭✭
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Tigors definition of cheating is very special - this was his definition 16 month ago:Tigor wrote:Alliance hopping
Hopping around like frogs
Exploiting Line of sight
Dodging everything
Flying back and forward
Endless resource management 1vX
Appearing at impossible places after dead
Addons that might show locations
Macros, five skills in one seconds before even seeing someone.
PvD the map when possible and camping when PvP starts.
And many more unexplainable things
source here in post #111On the day I met him in cyro for the first time (~2019) he was accusing me as a cheater. And that was the first time somebody called me a cheater (overall I played 2-3 month PvP before) at all. I will never forget that moment and the discussion afterwards. That's the reason why I recogniced his name and sometimes look into threads of him and always get a big smile if he is still talking about cheaters....
Edited by Zabagad on 23 December 2024 10:07As a non-pet sorc since 2016 the U46 Patch Notes sound like: "Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line eso as a whole."22 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not much cheating can be done if everything gets calculated serversided. I haven't seen anyone I would accuse of cheating in years. Exploiting sure, but not cheating.PC|EU5 -
moosegod✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Keep in mind in 2025 they said they're changing Cyrodiil so every class has their skills replaced with PvP specific skills.
It's going to be ESO Call of Duty with proc sets.
They are not replacing Cyrodiil with this idea. They explicitly stated in that update letter they will be adding a campaign with PvP specific skills. There will still be the same old regular server.3 -
Tigor✭✭✭A big change in Cyrodiil would also be welcome.
GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1 -
Telel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Telel would be happy if they'd just return to punishing those who use alts for score boosting and AP trading. Especially as it'd make AD zone chat so much less toxic.Character: Telel
Class: Night Blade-Werewolf-viking-ninja-catgirl-mallet wielder
Past times: Refusing to go full magika spec, hitting things with a big hammer, sniping, and speaking in khajiit
Also: Gelel the Derp Knight, Altsel the streaker, and Filafel the temp temp.
Khajiit has a twitch stream! https://twitch.tv/telel_khajiit feel free to come see how truly unskilled Telel is.1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Telel would be happy if they'd just return to punishing those who use alts for score boosting and AP trading. Especially as it'd make AD zone chat so much less toxic.
If you record this they do temp ban for it but it's still not reliable.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Banana Squad (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Roleplay Circle)1 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
"Basic algebra = cheating"
or
"most players cant math, so players should only be able to fight naked"
Did I understand OP correctly?We should use the insightful and awesome buttons more13 -
opethmaniac✭✭✭I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
If you invest your time in the game to learn the mechanics and then spend time adapting them on the battlefield, is that cheating?!? [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 29 December 2024 18:423 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There's an easy solution. Give me god mode. And I will kill all the cheaters. Deal?PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance5 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »There's an easy solution. Give me god mode. And I will kill all the cheaters. Deal?
Seems legit. Upvote2 -
Tigor✭✭✭MincMincMinc wrote: »I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
"Basic algebra = cheating"
or
"most players cant math, so players should only be able to fight naked"
Did I understand OP correctly?
Can you calculate how many possibilities this game has? And also calculate how often OP players would find the best solution?GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1 -
Tigor✭✭✭opethmaniac wrote: »I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
If you invest your time in the game to learn the mechanics and then spend time adapting them on the battlefield, is that cheating?!? [snip]
Who said I don't invest my time in the game. I play the game and achieved a lot by constantly adapting. Here I am the not cheater that knows hows how to play.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 29 December 2024 18:44GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cheating aside, ESO has serious balance issue at its very core. There are play-styles that had not been addressed since this game was released back in 2014 (mainly ball groups). This play-style benefits the most with various mechanics (stacking heals, buffs, proc-sets, synergy etc) that for some reason are still allowed despite being grossly overpowered & adding nothing more than toxicity & promoting certain toxic behaviour. It has gotten to the point when this particular play-style feels kinda like cheating (although I know it is not). It is so much drastically far into space compared to everything else when it comes to effectives vs effort that it kinda feels like cheating. Imagine playing any other PvP game & seeing something remotely close to a ball group. No sane person (game dev or player) would go & say: "Yeah, this is totally fine, lets leave it as it is or even lets keep passivle buffing it every update."5 -
opethmaniac✭✭✭opethmaniac wrote: »I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
If you invest your time in the game to learn the mechanics and then spend time adapting them on the battlefield, is that cheating?!? [snip]
Who said I don't invest my time in the game. I play the game and achieved a lot by constantly adapting. Here I am the not cheater that knows hows how to play.
Maybe I misunderstood you and I was sounding too harsh. But theorycrafting (what you calling "cheating", or unfair advantage), playing with varous builds and test them on the dummy or live in cyrodiil is time consuming and needs to be done to be competetive. It's sad If this step is too much for newer players, but it is not cheating if good player utilizises this practices.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 29 December 2024 18:440 -
Tigor✭✭✭opethmaniac wrote: »opethmaniac wrote: »I don't think that theorycrafting will do any good to the population in Cyrodiil as most players can't do it. On the rest I can agree @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
If you invest your time in the game to learn the mechanics and then spend time adapting them on the battlefield, is that cheating?!? [snip]
Who said I don't invest my time in the game. I play the game and achieved a lot by constantly adapting. Here I am the not cheater that knows hows how to play.
Maybe I misunderstood you and I was sounding too harsh. But theorycrafting (what you calling "cheating", or unfair advantage), playing with varous builds and test them on the dummy or live in cyrodiil is time consuming and needs to be done to be competetive. It's sad If this step is too much for newer players, but it is not cheating if good player utilizises this practices.
I did not say theorycrafting is cheating. I said theorycrafting is not good for the population in Cyrodiil as not everybody can do it. Being competetive is something different if a lot of time is needed for preparation and the outcomes are not satisfying enough.
Apart from that Cyrodiil with more fair results would be something still to thrive for, so far no change in that direction has been made. Then there has to be this cheating monstrum. We see it happen every day.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 29 December 2024 18:45GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1 -
Just_Attivi✭✭✭✭✭Without theory crafting, the ability to try new and outside-the-box ideas, this game would be beyond stale so fast. I get that not everyone is great at coming up with builds, but to say theory crafting is not good for the population is ridiculous. why bother having different sets at all then? or even different skills? we should all just stand in our nordic bathing towels in a field, punching eachother. Not everyone has all DLC, is DLC gear bad for the population? Not everybody is good with bar swapping, should we not be allowed to have 2 bars? Not everyone has a super computer and a 4k monitor, should we only be able to play in 480 resolution? maybe we can count pixels then, because it would be more entertaining than playing at that point.
I dont say this to bash, but to explain the perspective that the freedom to try and create different builds and ideas is a big draw of this game, and a big part of competition. even major sports, lets use baseball, what do pitchers do... throw that curve ball occasionally. batters? maybe they bunt the ball instead of swinging for that home run. its the unexpected. when you can hit a player with a set up they were not expecting, rather than 'oh boy, another shield spamming sorc waiting for frags' or 'another mech acuity warden running in circles with 40k hp until northern storm is up" the variety of builds freshens things up, makes counterplay uncertain because this ones different than the others. People who dedicate time to the game, be it baseball in this example, or theory crafting and PVPing, should and will be better than people who dont take the time to understand the nuances. is the skill gap absolutely massive? yes. but thats all competition. There will always be someone who is better, or has more time, or has a bigger group of friends to team up, its just a part of open world pvp. You will not always be the champion, and thats a fact for all matters of life. dumbing everything down to level the playing field to the entry level would only make things more boring, and drive away people who actually want to be competitive. and then youd be left just heavy attacking guards and light attacking walls.
TL;DR - variety is the spice of life, embrace it rather than eating plain oatmeal every day. and theres always a bigger fish, train to take on the bigger fish, accept your place as a smaller fish, or pay the fisherman off to take out the bigger fish for you.6 -
Tigor✭✭✭Just_Attivi wrote: »Without theory crafting, the ability to try new and outside-the-box ideas, this game would be beyond stale so fast. I get that not everyone is great at coming up with builds, but to say theory crafting is not good for the population is ridiculous. why bother having different sets at all then? or even different skills? we should all just stand in our nordic bathing towels in a field, punching eachother. Not everyone has all DLC, is DLC gear bad for the population? Not everybody is good with bar swapping, should we not be allowed to have 2 bars? Not everyone has a super computer and a 4k monitor, should we only be able to play in 480 resolution? maybe we can count pixels then, because it would be more entertaining than playing at that point.
I dont say this to bash, but to explain the perspective that the freedom to try and create different builds and ideas is a big draw of this game, and a big part of competition. even major sports, lets use baseball, what do pitchers do... throw that curve ball occasionally. batters? maybe they bunt the ball instead of swinging for that home run. its the unexpected. when you can hit a player with a set up they were not expecting, rather than 'oh boy, another shield spamming sorc waiting for frags' or 'another mech acuity warden running in circles with 40k hp until northern storm is up" the variety of builds freshens things up, makes counterplay uncertain because this ones different than the others. People who dedicate time to the game, be it baseball in this example, or theory crafting and PVPing, should and will be better than people who dont take the time to understand the nuances. is the skill gap absolutely massive? yes. but thats all competition. There will always be someone who is better, or has more time, or has a bigger group of friends to team up, its just a part of open world pvp. You will not always be the champion, and thats a fact for all matters of life. dumbing everything down to level the playing field to the entry level would only make things more boring, and drive away people who actually want to be competitive. and then youd be left just heavy attacking guards and light attacking walls.
TL;DR - variety is the spice of life, embrace it rather than eating plain oatmeal every day. and theres always a bigger fish, train to take on the bigger fish, accept your place as a smaller fish, or pay the fisherman off to take out the bigger fish for you.
Ever thought about choice overload leading to fatigue, dissatisfaction and lower confidence?
Many players can't do theorycafting because they are not getting to that stage.
When there are players that somehow manage to always come with optimal builds, it's effect is even growing to the level of quitting. Not good for the population then right.
There is indeed a comparison between this game and some sports were the competition only can be won by doping behind the scenes.
Even Arnold S admitted the use of steroids.
GM - Decimation Elite - Ebonheart Pact - Cyrodiil (PC/EU) - aka Tigor (AR50), Leopard Tank (AR50) , Captain-Caveman (AR50), Tigors Claw (AR50), -Bud Spencer (AR50)1
