ZOS plans concerning BALL GROUPS?

IamDestiny · May 9

If you die to a ballgroup you most likely deserve it. Next time you see a smallscale at a resource and you think: this could really use sieges or my 50k hp healer, think twice. The delusional arrogance of zerglings is unmatched and encouraged by zos as they make it easier to zerg people down. All these players could easily form a ballgroup and run all of you down just to make a point.

How about before we kill ballgroups we nerf sieges, pure healers & tanks, gankblades,

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The people in red are those who zos has been catering this game to for years now. There will never be build diversity in this game anymore because zos wants to keep the gap between good and bad players as small as possible. There is no incentive to get better at the game. Slowly over time zos took away tools for smallscale and solo players to survive zergs and play the game.

Do i like ballgroups? No. Are they a necessary evil? Yes.

Tsuriel · May 9

Again with the cherry picking and fact denial. If you want to attract new players into the PvP sphere Ballgroups need to be eliminated from the equation. The only thing they bring is lag, skill issues and especially discouragement for the new/casual players to even set a foot into PvP altogether as said and repeated through these 12 pages til now.

How about before we kill ballgroups we nerf sieges, pure healers & tanks, gankblades,

I agree on healing needing nerf but sieges can easily be countered/avoided, same applies to gankblades especially if you keep them out of stealth (Their burst dmg rely on stealth, same apply to bombers) and tanks can be ignored since they serve no use beyond luring players to focus on them.

Ballgroup today ruin what little is left of PvP, chase newer players away and force those remaining to either avoid prime times, usually by going afk or find other means to enjoy PvP beyond Cyrodiil.

xFocused · May 9

Tsuriel wrote: »

Again with the cherry picking and fact denial. If you want to attract new players into the PvP sphere Ballgroups need to be eliminated from the equation. The only thing they bring is lag, skill issues and especially discouragement for the new/casual players to even set a foot into PvP altogether as said and repeated through these 12 pages til now.

How about before we kill ballgroups we nerf sieges, pure healers & tanks, gankblades,

I agree on healing needing nerf but sieges can easily be countered/avoided, same applies to gankblades especially if you keep them out of stealth (Their burst dmg rely on stealth, same apply to bombers) and tanks can be ignored since they serve no use beyond luring players to focus on them.

Ballgroup today ruin what little is left of PvP, chase newer players away and force those remaining to either avoid prime times, usually by going afk or find other means to enjoy PvP beyond Cyrodiil.

"The only thing they bring is lag".

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I've said this in other comments but how come when my BG fights another BG in a open field we don't seem to lag out or disconnect but when I'm fighting a 30-40 man zerg then I'm suddenly lagging out and getting disconnects? Not to mention just days ago the game was booting everyone from Cyrodiil just for standing at the gate, lol. I know people don't like BG's and that's fine but let's not pretend the servers are in some kind of less than atrocious shape, lol

Sporigudinai · May 10

ESO servers are really bad now, i can´t remember playing a game where there were such a big problem for so long.

Maybe the problem are not the servers but the people who are in control of it

Tsuriel · May 10

xFocused wrote: »

Tsuriel wrote: »

Again with the cherry picking and fact denial. If you want to attract new players into the PvP sphere Ballgroups need to be eliminated from the equation. The only thing they bring is lag, skill issues and especially discouragement for the new/casual players to even set a foot into PvP altogether as said and repeated through these 12 pages til now.

How about before we kill ballgroups we nerf sieges, pure healers & tanks, gankblades,

I agree on healing needing nerf but sieges can easily be countered/avoided, same applies to gankblades especially if you keep them out of stealth (Their burst dmg rely on stealth, same apply to bombers) and tanks can be ignored since they serve no use beyond luring players to focus on them.

Ballgroup today ruin what little is left of PvP, chase newer players away and force those remaining to either avoid prime times, usually by going afk or find other means to enjoy PvP beyond Cyrodiil.

"The only thing they bring is lag".

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I've said this in other comments but how come when my BG fights another BG in a open field we don't seem to lag out or disconnect but when I'm fighting a 30-40 man zerg then I'm suddenly lagging out and getting disconnects? Not to mention just days ago the game was booting everyone from Cyrodiil just for standing at the gate, lol. I know people don't like BG's and that's fine but let's not pretend the servers are in some kind of less than atrocious shape, lol

I always get lag, skill and connection issues when Ballgroups are around, especially with the constant spamming of HoT spells. I've yet to experience the same level of issues during zerg fights and it's been said and proven multiple times throughout the thread that bgs also introduce lag and skill issues during larger fights but as said, one does not expect fact blind pro-bgs to even read what doesn't align with their agenda.

xFocused · May 10

Tsuriel wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

Tsuriel wrote: »

Again with the cherry picking and fact denial. If you want to attract new players into the PvP sphere Ballgroups need to be eliminated from the equation. The only thing they bring is lag, skill issues and especially discouragement for the new/casual players to even set a foot into PvP altogether as said and repeated through these 12 pages til now.

How about before we kill ballgroups we nerf sieges, pure healers & tanks, gankblades,

I agree on healing needing nerf but sieges can easily be countered/avoided, same applies to gankblades especially if you keep them out of stealth (Their burst dmg rely on stealth, same apply to bombers) and tanks can be ignored since they serve no use beyond luring players to focus on them.

Ballgroup today ruin what little is left of PvP, chase newer players away and force those remaining to either avoid prime times, usually by going afk or find other means to enjoy PvP beyond Cyrodiil.

"The only thing they bring is lag".

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I've said this in other comments but how come when my BG fights another BG in a open field we don't seem to lag out or disconnect but when I'm fighting a 30-40 man zerg then I'm suddenly lagging out and getting disconnects? Not to mention just days ago the game was booting everyone from Cyrodiil just for standing at the gate, lol. I know people don't like BG's and that's fine but let's not pretend the servers are in some kind of less than atrocious shape, lol

I always get lag, skill and connection issues when Ballgroups are around, especially with the constant spamming of HoT spells. I've yet to experience the same level of issues during zerg fights and it's been said and proven multiple times throughout the thread that bgs also introduce lag and skill issues during larger fights but as said, one does not expect fact blind pro-bgs to even read what doesn't align with their agenda.

And I'm simply asking how come I can be standing in a open field solo and experience lag, get hit with the stuck in combat bug or just disconnect entirely. You also seemed to ignore my point that just days ago players on all platforms were getting booted just for standing at keeps and home gates. My BG has fought several other BG's in open fields and keeps numerous times and we still don't experience the lag that we get just from fighting massive zergs...Even last night my 7 man group logged out after an hour because we were rubberbanding all over the place just by riding through a field...It's a server issue, it's always been a server issue

MISTFORMBZZZ · May 15

cant wait till that new aoe know back skill is gonna spammed by ball groups yeeting everyone out of keeps and off siege looool

Desiato · May 15

xFocused wrote: »

And I'm simply asking how come I can be standing in a open field solo and experience lag, get hit with the stuck in combat bug or just disconnect entirely. You also seemed to ignore my point that just days ago players on all platforms were getting booted just for standing at keeps and home gates. My BG has fought several other BG's in open fields and keeps numerous times and we still don't experience the lag that we get just from fighting massive zergs...Even last night my 7 man group logged out after an hour because we were rubberbanding all over the place just by riding through a field...It's a server issue, it's always been a server issue

Because on top of whatever issues have always plagued Cyrodiil -- which in terms of lag is server processing lag -- there appears to be a range of connectivity issues affecting some players. There are several threads in the General Discussions forum.

They don't affect everyone. I've not been affected and neither have the players I play with, but it's clear a lot of players are experiencing network issues at some level.

Traditional lag in Cyrodiil has long been identified as server processing lag. It was recognized by ZOS and players almost 10 years ago. Ball groups contribute disproportionately to server load because of the huge number of calculations resulting from the play style.

Furthermore, a shortcoming in the design of Cyrodiil means that a calculation intensive fight in one part of the map will affect the entire server. So a tickening event that draws most of the players to one keep with lag the entire server.

Crown · May 15

This could be their attempt at a response.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 16

Crown wrote: »

This could be their attempt at a response.

Unfortunately not lol the power groups will have next patch is going to be obscene. Scribing is such a broken system for group play with the way they have implemented the skills.

Crown · May 19

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

This could be their attempt at a response.

Unfortunately not lol

I said "attempt"..

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

the power groups will have next patch is going to be obscene. Scribing is such a broken system for group play with the way they have implemented the skills.

Agreed, and already have a few builds documented for next patch. Waiting on release to ensure that things don't change before updating the public recommendations sheet..

Lazarus_Rising · May 21

I guess it had been said already but Cyrodiil was made for large group combat not for skirmishes.

Can someone enlighten me why usually all the hardcore pvp player are not in IC where the performance is way better and you get your small skirmishes? Also you get way more ressources that way.

Why is is that someone purposefully chooses bad performance?

Desiato · May 26

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

I guess it had been said already but Cyrodiil was made for large group combat not for skirmishes.

This is false. Cyrodiil was designed to facilitate a range of group sizes from solo to large scale.

I don't see anyone advocating for the complete removal of large coordinated groups. Many of the players who would like to see change are former leaders and members of (in)famous large groups of the past.

It's about balance, enjoyable combat and how ball groups fit into the big picture.

I'm pretty sure most competitive ball group players from 2014-2017 are highly disappointed in the current ball group meta.

GooGa592 · May 26

Crown wrote: »

This could be their attempt at a response.

Except to get that "skill", you have to buy the latest chapter.

Before ZOS expects people to buy new content they should fix the performance of todays content.

If ZOS was trying to do something to balance Cyrodiil they'd address the heal stacking issue.

Tsuriel · May 26

Desiato wrote: »

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

I guess it had been said already but Cyrodiil was made for large group combat not for skirmishes.

This is false. Cyrodiil was designed to facilitate a range of group sizes from solo to large scale.

I don't see anyone advocating for the complete removal of large coordinated groups. Many of the players who would like to see change are former leaders and members of (in)famous large groups of the past.

It's about balance, enjoyable combat and how ball groups fit into the big picture.

I'm pretty sure most competitive ball group players from 2014-2017 are highly disappointed in the current ball group meta.

That's obviously not true when resorting to the dumbed down ballgroup gameplay is an assured victory in Cyrodiil's current state.

Aethurial · June 17

Turn off player no clip, problem solved..

Four_Fingers · June 19

Aethurial wrote: »

Turn off player no clip, problem solved..

So we can block you in the tower for farming? lol

Deimus · July 14

If they won't do anything to fix ball play then they need to make a Cyrodiil campaign that doesn't allow them. Keep proc sets and cp, but only allow one instance of any beneficial effect per player so no stacking heals, further reduce power of shields placed on other players, and anything that causes loss of control or forced movement on a player character counts as cc. So those who enjoy that toxic grief filled playstyle can play with those who accept them or don't know better and everyone else can play in a Cyrodiil that will have much better performance and can allow for a higher population cap. It might be the biggest step they've make in years to turning Cyrodiil into what they envisioned it at release.

Durham · July 29

They will not do anything to ball groups. I do not think they think they are a problem. I think they have accepted that play style.

Tsuriel · July 29

Durham wrote: »

They will not do anything to ball groups. I do not think they think they are a problem. I think they have accepted that play style.

They will have to do something about it unless their intention is legit to kill PvP off and discourage players from attending like the rest of the game gradually is. It's already known and has been discussed through 12 pages here that ballgroups ruin PvP and should be dealt with accordingly.

Rlacoste · August 6

after population nerf, you would think they would shrink ball grps size
PVP in 2024 consists of trying to run away from ball grps for hours on end, not fun. Points don't matter if we can't fill the population in the early mornings, 1 faction does and have been doing this for years, therefore points isn't even a motivator.

Ball groups exploiting solo players is ridiculous practice, remember solo players saved MMOs and they get treated like they don't matter. Population has dramatically reduced in MMOs, we need figure something out.

Hammer shouldn't be a thing IMO however seeing all the players swarm that thing I may be alone on that. 28fps and skills frozen seems to attract action. But when 1 faction has 3-4 bars and others 1 bar, you think you can hold off with the hammer for fairness??

I for one is full to the brim with all the exploitations in this game.

I understand why they join grps, but COME ON MAN! give solo players something to thrive for, like battle royales or something.

How do we include everyone??

Four_Fingers · August 14

Solo players "saved" MMOs?
I have heard it all now.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 15

Aethurial wrote: »

like battle royales or something.

I'm sure PTS will launch soon normally they start talking about Q4's patch beginning-middle of September.

DTLight · August 22

Considering ball groups are not he easiest to maintain, run, or even to form to begin with (I've been doing them on/off for a decade-ish) it's really not that much of an issue. It's people grouping together in order to do something more effectively for a better result. that's literally the point of most, if not all, mmo group content. be fr

MJallday · August 24

You can wipe out a ball group with a bomber build easily.

Sit back , observe the weakest , target them
Boom

If you don’t like that idea a couple of meat bags right int the middle of them tends to scatter them

Tommy_The_Gun · August 24

Crown wrote: »

This could be their attempt at a response.

I doubt that. They already nerfed the range to 10 meters. The only usefull case knockback has vs Ball Group is when they are running around inner/outer keep walls and knockback can move some of them outside the wall. It won't kill them, but only make them leave faster (maybe). Destro Scribing skill was easiest to land and that is why people are using it. Besides that you can try Magnum Shot, but whatever "knockback" skill you will use good luck vs a Ball Group as for the most part they have very high uptime for CC immunity & are at the speed cap 24/7.

MJallday wrote: »

You can wipe out a ball group with a bomber build easily.

Sit back , observe the weakest , target them
Boom

If you don’t like that idea a couple of meat bags right int the middle of them tends to scatter them

I have the feeling we are not playing the same game lol. Ball Grops are totally ignoring sieges as if it was nothing. They are just that tanky. A single bomber (no matter how good) will not be enough (even bomber + sieges). On top of that BG tend to move at the speed cap, so you will never catch them, you just need to wait for them in a hipper squishy build that needs to activate every thing in time while BG is near... good luck wit that, BG will lag you to death. And what is next ? You need to count on your allies to finish BG off and for the most part what will happen is that BG will just heal to full in a split second. Bombers area good vs randoms and maybe small scale, but Ball Groups are counter-less in this game.

Major_Mangle · August 24

MJallday wrote: »

You can wipe out a ball group with a bomber build easily.

Sit back , observe the weakest , target them
Boom

If you don’t like that idea a couple of meat bags right int the middle of them tends to scatter them

If a single person can wipe out a ballgroup without any additional help from a faction/siege etc, that ballgroup is not even involved in the problem people usually bring up when talking about ballgroups.

darvaria · August 26

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

When was the last time that any 'anti-ballgroup' solution has been actually successful? Anti-ballgroup anything is best used in ballgroups. Just accept that coordinated groups will trump over others and move on. People will still find a way to be effective in groups.

I have noticed they don't actually get inner keeps as much. If players would just pull back and make them siege under heavy fire and oils and NOT chase. Stand back and do nothing. Same at the resource towers. I just won't go in and leave the area.