The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of May 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 13
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 13
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
PVP Mass Exodus: Give them a reason to return
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In my experience with cryodiil pvp in the years ive been pvping, I agree that its going down a dark path. Ive seen big time pvp groups up and leave because of the performance during prime time. I've experienced the mass boots from game mid pvp battle at keeps. The massive lag that hits when you are fighting 20+ vs 20+ and everyone can barely get 1 skill to go off and the fights become more of a "who can beat the lag" to win instead of actual players fighting players with the ability to use their skills. It sucks. But I still pvp because despite the performance, I just love pvp even if I'm not the best pvper xD
But back to the topic of the OP to this thread, I would love to see new pvp content. Or, in fact, a revamp of cyrodiil in general. I wouldnt mind them just shutting down cyrodiil completely for a good half a year if it meant they were actually going ham at pinpointing the issues, fixing the issues, and maybe even improving different aspects to cyrodiil in general. Like others said, maybe even give nice rewards for pvping other than just ur monthly transmutes and whatever ap u managed to make. Heck id love to see maybe some actual pvp cosmetics and attach them to possible new pvp achievements. But overall, cyrodiil and battlegrounds needs some polishing and updating. New content. Not the same old "mount running simulator."
And would it kill them to make forward camp usage timers not 5 min cds
Especially with the lag issue right now.
Anyways thats just my two cents on the matter.@CAS1NOVA
Main heals /tank
GUILDS
Divine Crusade
Real Guild Best Guild
The Kind Kwamas
Hard Dungeoneers
The Four Musketeers3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »I said this in another thread, but the only way pvp is going to improve is if Zos invests in it and improves it. First they are going to need a reason to invest in it though. Right now pvp is just a free addition to the game. It doesn't get a constant stream of new dungeon packs or chapters. Its got an extremely small population as well, so even the pvpers that are buying this pve content are not that big of a customer base.
Zos, in order to make pvp profitable to your company you should create a battlepass like every other game. You will start making money off of pvp and you will draw in more people. If zos starts making money off of pvp I believe they will feel motivated and incentivized to fix all the bugs/lag. The influx of new players will demand better servers and their complaints will help bring about balance changes that would have never happened otherwise. If battle pass buyers are complaing about dc it would get nerfed. If they think tank meta is unfun, it will get patched. If they can't kill ball groups, zos will bring the hammer down on them. All in the name of making more money and keeping the pass users happy.
Zos isn't incompetent, they just don't want to fix anything pvp related because it will not give any returns. This is what I firmly believe.
They have actually invested a good amount of time into trying to fix PvP. All those changes that players complain about are attempts to improve PvP. I've been in some top PvP guilds. You would be surprised by how much many PvP'rs spend on this game. They like the cool mounts and costumes just like other players. They have some really nice homes. I would be willing to bet four Ta and three bananas that if ZoS put siege weapons and other PvP oriented stuff in the crown store as furnishings they would make a killing. Well maybe not right at the moment. But if PvP'rs forgive them for the Dark Convergence mess selling PvP furnishings would be a boon.
Turning off almost all sets is not a “fix”
yeah, because that is the only thing they tried.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
neferpitou73✭✭✭✭✭
✭AJones43865 wrote: »xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »I said this in another thread, but the only way pvp is going to improve is if Zos invests in it and improves it. First they are going to need a reason to invest in it though. Right now pvp is just a free addition to the game. It doesn't get a constant stream of new dungeon packs or chapters. Its got an extremely small population as well, so even the pvpers that are buying this pve content are not that big of a customer base.
Zos, in order to make pvp profitable to your company you should create a battlepass like every other game. You will start making money off of pvp and you will draw in more people. If zos starts making money off of pvp I believe they will feel motivated and incentivized to fix all the bugs/lag. The influx of new players will demand better servers and their complaints will help bring about balance changes that would have never happened otherwise. If battle pass buyers are complaing about dc it would get nerfed. If they think tank meta is unfun, it will get patched. If they can't kill ball groups, zos will bring the hammer down on them. All in the name of making more money and keeping the pass users happy.
Zos isn't incompetent, they just don't want to fix anything pvp related because it will not give any returns. This is what I firmly believe.
They have actually invested a good amount of time into trying to fix PvP. All those changes that players complain about are attempts to improve PvP. I've been in some top PvP guilds. You would be surprised by how much many PvP'rs spend on this game. They like the cool mounts and costumes just like other players. They have some really nice homes. I would be willing to bet four Ta and three bananas that if ZoS put siege weapons and other PvP oriented stuff in the crown store as furnishings they would make a killing. Well maybe not right at the moment. But if PvP'rs forgive them for the Dark Convergence mess selling PvP furnishings would be a boon.
It seems more like they've put a ton of time and focus on doing everything except providing modern servers that can handle the load, except during MYM events, then Cyro works pretty good even with much higher numbers of players. This was the proof that the bottleneck is almost certainly the servers; they can make cyro work at least a few weeks out of the year for the MYM events.
Bingo
I don't want to speculate about their finances but something tells me just investing in the server infrastructure up front would have saved them a lot of time and money they've spent trying to fix the issue without the servers.Edited by neferpitou73 on 1 November 2021 05:464 -
confettibae✭✭
They have actually invested a good amount of time into trying to fix PvP. All those changes that players complain about are attempts to improve PvP. I've been in some top PvP guilds. You would be surprised by how much many PvP'rs spend on this game. They like the cool mounts and costumes just like other players. They have some really nice homes. I would be willing to bet four Ta and three bananas that if ZoS put siege weapons and other PvP oriented stuff in the crown store as furnishings they would make a killing. Well maybe not right at the moment. But if PvP'rs forgive them for the Dark Convergence mess selling PvP furnishings would be a boon.
All existing siege excluding lancers, elder scroll replicas, hammer replicas, flag replicas, cyro port shrines, etc etc etc are available as housing items for AP from the achievement furniture vendor in your alliances home base. please do not turn these into crown store items, as you said, we spend more than enough on housing, mounts and costumes to cover our tabbards lol.
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IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »For more information on the data I pulled:
https://twitchtracker.com/games/peak-viewers
If you notice on this list of peak viewers of all time, 14 of the top 20 games on this list are competitive in nature.
That could be for a variety of reasons. Maybe people that play those types of games tend to be the types of people that like watching others play? Watching others compete after all is a bit more exciting than watching someone talk to NPCs while on a quest. You might be seeing a correlation that doesn't exist.
I'm basing my theory off scientific data, humans are competitive by nature.
"Competitions have the undesirable quality of being a “zero-sum” game (i.e., in order for you to win, someone else must lose). Nonetheless, throughout human history, people seemed to have enjoyed organizing competitions in one form or another, from the ancient Greek Olympic Games (going back as far as 776 BC) to modern soccer (I would say American Football, but soccer is actually the most popular sport in the world). In fact, when you look closely, you’ll notice that competition is everywhere in modern society. Economists tell us that competition is an essential force in maintaining productive and efficient markets"
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/socially-relevant/201506/the-psychology-competition
You can read more, another article from sciencedirect on why people like competition
"We hypothesized that people who are motivated by competition are motivated for at least three reasons: competition allows them to satisfy the need to win, competition provides the opportunity or reason for improving their performance, and competition motivates them to put forth greater effort that can result in high levels of performance."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0191886995000355#:~:text=We hypothesized that people who,that can result in high
I mean the study is everywhere and its been that way throughout civilization dating back to before a time we even have proper history for. It's not a wild theory to jump to the theory that the top most watched/played games are competitive in nature (sans a few). Look at League of Legends, it's 5v5 PVP is largely MMORPG style and that game is a professional esport with multiple leagues and huge dollar amounts/sell out crowds. They don't have an PVE side to the game and it does way better than ESO.
ZoS would be crazy to eliminate PVP, as much as PVER's think they can sustain this game alone, simple truth is they cant and if Zenimax doesn't focus more on PVP they will hemorrhage more players. Competition is healthy for this game, for the players, for its future on Twitch. You fix alot of the problems plaguing Cyrodiill and I guarantee you a lot of streamers come back because the combat in this game is fun when it works.
While interesting none of that has anything to do with trying to gauge the popularity of a game based on how many people watch others play it on Twitch.
Chess is a game enjoyed by millions (800 million registered players) but few enjoy watching others play. Yeah League of Legends is huge. It is an entire different type of game. One that will continue to grow. They offer tournaments often with huge cash prizes for winning, have a world ranking and are investing heavily in creating an atmosphere that will rival attending other major sporting events.
But they are different and they are not what everyone wants. Again back to chess. 800 million registered players and how many around the world that play just for fun both on a board and with a computer.
The point still stands. You can not judge the popularity of a game by looking at the number of viewers on Twitch. I agree players will return when/if Cyrodiil is improved or maybe even when the new wears off that other game. There will be some Twitch types that come back but those looking for large viewing audiences and revenue are going to continue to always jump to the new thing. That is where the hype is.
The Twitch viewers was my secondary point in which my data correlates that people gravitate more towards watching competitive games as shown on Twitch charts. Your post actually proves my main point that players/people like to engage in competitive events and games. 800 million registered chess users is an absolutely huge number and chess is strictly Player vs Player.
These two things dont have to be one or the other. If you can combine the fun of watching competitive PVP on Twitch and keep the players playing the PVP engaged with seamless combat you have a recipe for a popular game.3 -
Hey people, you are not reading my posts at all, still repeating the same .
I told you already here and in different threads on this forum that CYRO map design was flawed from the begining.
No other MMORPG has such huge map for PVP opened for hundreds players simultaneously 24/7
It has very simple economic reason.
PVP tends to be much more costly in terms of resources then PVE and nobody on the forum is aware of it.
ESO is not really comparable with LOL where you have 30 minutes matches 5vs5 on 2D maps.
COmpare it with CYRO with one month long campaigns for thousands participants on 3D map of the size of the whole continent in other games.
I'm quite informed in this area but without knowledge of ESO server side code and having all the statistics and resources and loads and number of concurrent users and usage during peaks (all classified) it is a far long shot even for me.
But I estimate the real expences just for PVP and CYRO in ESO must be somewhere in the rank $ 1.000.000 per year.
If I'm manager of the game, I'd do pretty the same, keep PVP part laggy, bugged and unnatractive in the controoled way so the problems dissapear themselves by reducing of PVP community without losing a lot of money trying to fix what is maybe unfixable.
I think the only alternative is reducing CYRO 10times in size to make it maintanable and profitable or make it PVE zone only.
But I'm afraid it is no go, maybe from sentimental reasons.
The problem here is that studio is not playing opened cards and discussion is struggling and you (and I) don't have complete information and see only very limited picture of all the complex problems.
But the market and competition doesn't care.
[Edit to remove bait and conspiracy]Edited by [Deleted User] on 1 November 2021 22:060 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »I said this in another thread, but the only way pvp is going to improve is if Zos invests in it and improves it. First they are going to need a reason to invest in it though. Right now pvp is just a free addition to the game. It doesn't get a constant stream of new dungeon packs or chapters. Its got an extremely small population as well, so even the pvpers that are buying this pve content are not that big of a customer base.
Zos, in order to make pvp profitable to your company you should create a battlepass like every other game. You will start making money off of pvp and you will draw in more people. If zos starts making money off of pvp I believe they will feel motivated and incentivized to fix all the bugs/lag. The influx of new players will demand better servers and their complaints will help bring about balance changes that would have never happened otherwise. If battle pass buyers are complaing about dc it would get nerfed. If they think tank meta is unfun, it will get patched. If they can't kill ball groups, zos will bring the hammer down on them. All in the name of making more money and keeping the pass users happy.
Zos isn't incompetent, they just don't want to fix anything pvp related because it will not give any returns. This is what I firmly believe.
They have actually invested a good amount of time into trying to fix PvP. All those changes that players complain about are attempts to improve PvP. I've been in some top PvP guilds. You would be surprised by how much many PvP'rs spend on this game. They like the cool mounts and costumes just like other players. They have some really nice homes. I would be willing to bet four Ta and three bananas that if ZoS put siege weapons and other PvP oriented stuff in the crown store as furnishings they would make a killing. Well maybe not right at the moment. But if PvP'rs forgive them for the Dark Convergence mess selling PvP furnishings would be a boon.
Turning off almost all sets is not a “fix”
yeah, because that is the only thing they tried.
Thats not what I said but okay, if you go there lets go there
All of their attempted “fixes” only put restrictions on the player, aoe cooldowns? Check No healing outside of group? Check Putting group limits to 12? Check Limiting sets to like 20 sets? Check
Its obvious whats causing the lag, the servers aren’t able to keep up and they need to pay for better ones like they do during midyear mayhem but that’d cost money so we can’t have that2 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Hey people, you are not reading my posts at all, still repeating the same .
I told you already here and in different threads on this forum that CYRO map design was flawed from the begining.
No other MMORPG has such huge map for PVP opened for hundreds players simultaneously 24/7
It has very simple economic reason.
PVP tends to be much more costly in terms of resources then PVE and nobody on the forum is aware of it.
ESO is not really comparable with LOL where you have 30 minutes matches 5vs5 on 2D maps.
COmpare it with CYRO with one month long campaigns for thousands participants on 3D map of the size of the whole continent in other games.
I'm quite informed in this area but without knowledge of ESO server side code and having all the statistics and resources and loads and number of concurrent users and usage during peaks (all classified) it is a far long shot even for me.
But I estimate the real expences just for PVP and CYRO in ESO must be somewhere in the rank $ 1.000.000 per year.
If I'm manager of the game, I'd do pretty the same, keep PVP part laggy, bugged and unnatractive in the controoled way so the problems dissapear themselves by reducing of PVP community without losing a lot of money trying to fix what is maybe unfixable.
I think the only alternative is reducing CYRO 10times in size to make it maintanable and profitable or make it PVE zone only.
But I'm afraid it is no go, maybe from sentimental reasons.
The problem here is that studio is not playing opened cards and discussion is struggling and you (and I) don't have complete information and see only very limited picture of all the complex problems.
But the market and competition doesn't care.
The problem is they have dine it for midyear Mayhem, now twice a year and it's better. Maybe you are right and they incur that extra cost just for a couple weeks but that seems like an odd cycle of time.
But assuming you are right; I think I'd still have fun if they halved the size and halved the pop lock and did more servers. It would still be larger scale and persistent which I like compared to run of the mill BGs or arena like every MMO hasEdited by [Deleted User] on 1 November 2021 22:060 -
xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Any tech nerds know how much money it would cost to get a better server for pvp? Granted ESO is a bit different then other games, but there is dang minecraft servers that can support more players then ESO's campaigns can. Something feels really off about this whole server situation. I have a feeling ZOS is being incredibly frugal with our money when it comes to pvp.I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.0 -
BazOfWar✭✭✭✭They are never going to spend money on new servers because its a combination of a lot of things besides just server capacity.
This guy gives a detailed explanation as to the state of eso pvp and why it won't change for the better, quite an interesting watch.
https://youtu.be/-KmIRg3Syqw 0 -
LyraEmber✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »Lowbei detailed the history of the slow removal of server resources at the datacenter ZOS rents servers from, to the point where we are now on the lower tier that their datacenter provides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
Where’s his sources for this information?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
He appears to take all the factual evidence over the years of what they have done, and put the puzzle pieces together in the only realistic way they can fit. When the puzzle is all put together, it points to them periodically telling their datacenter that they are willing to pay less, and thus to move their data only lower end servers. Have a look, its well detailed.Edited by LyraEmber on 1 November 2021 14:540 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »Lowbei detailed the history of the slow removal of server resources at the datacenter ZOS rents servers from, to the point where we are now on the lower tier that their datacenter provides.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
Where’s his sources for this information?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
He appears to take all the factual evidence over the years of what they have done, and put the puzzle pieces together in the only realistic way they can fit. When the puzzle is all put together, it points to them periodically telling their datacenter that they are willing to pay less, and thus to move their data only lower end servers. Have a look, its well detailed.
I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture1 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.4 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 1 November 2021 17:530 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
New World might be shallow for PVE only players but it will last and be more watched on Twitch because of the competitive nature in the game itself. I know PVE only players dont want to acknlowedge PVP and think this game survives purely on PVE content but in reality it doesn't. It's not even hitting 1k concurrent viewers because no one wants to watch PVE players unless you actually like the streamer themselves.
Its time ZoS to focus on PVP aspects (while not ignoring PVE outright) but PVP needs love, bring back the spirit of competition, the players and the viewers on Twitch.
You only have to go to Twitch and see why so many games remain on top and that's because of PVP.
I mean games survive that aren't on Twitch. This game has a pretty large playerbase.1 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sure games survive that aren't on Twitch but I don't need a graph or stats to show you that a more visible game to the average eye is more profitable than one that is just hanging on.spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
New World might be shallow for PVE only players but it will last and be more watched on Twitch because of the competitive nature in the game itself. I know PVE only players dont want to acknlowedge PVP and think this game survives purely on PVE content but in reality it doesn't. It's not even hitting 1k concurrent viewers because no one wants to watch PVE players unless you actually like the streamer themselves.
Its time ZoS to focus on PVP aspects (while not ignoring PVE outright) but PVP needs love, bring back the spirit of competition, the players and the viewers on Twitch.
You only have to go to Twitch and see why so many games remain on top and that's because of PVP.
I mean games survive that aren't on Twitch. This game has a pretty large playerbase.
I don't know why ZOS would be ok with the status quo of hanging on when they could do more to get the game back into the publics eye. How do you do that? Bring back the PVPers, push the game up the Twitch charts, get the gaming internet blogs talking about the game again and you will see how many new players it draws in and how many players come back.
4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Sure games survive that aren't on Twitch but I don't need a graph or stats to show you that a more visible game to the average eye is more profitable than one that is just hanging on.spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
New World might be shallow for PVE only players but it will last and be more watched on Twitch because of the competitive nature in the game itself. I know PVE only players dont want to acknlowedge PVP and think this game survives purely on PVE content but in reality it doesn't. It's not even hitting 1k concurrent viewers because no one wants to watch PVE players unless you actually like the streamer themselves.
Its time ZoS to focus on PVP aspects (while not ignoring PVE outright) but PVP needs love, bring back the spirit of competition, the players and the viewers on Twitch.
You only have to go to Twitch and see why so many games remain on top and that's because of PVP.
I mean games survive that aren't on Twitch. This game has a pretty large playerbase.
I don't know why ZOS would be ok with the status quo of hanging on when they could do more to get the game back into the publics eye. How do you do that? Bring back the PVPers, push the game up the Twitch charts, get the gaming internet blogs talking about the game again and you will see how many new players it draws in and how many players come back.
This game has never been more successful, in their own words. They have carved out a unique space for their game and drawn a large audience with that strategy.Edited by spartaxoxo on 1 November 2021 18:470 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
Sure games survive that aren't on Twitch but I don't need a graph or stats to show you that a more visible game to the average eye is more profitable than one that is just hanging on.spartaxoxo wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »
New World might be shallow for PVE only players but it will last and be more watched on Twitch because of the competitive nature in the game itself. I know PVE only players dont want to acknlowedge PVP and think this game survives purely on PVE content but in reality it doesn't. It's not even hitting 1k concurrent viewers because no one wants to watch PVE players unless you actually like the streamer themselves.
Its time ZoS to focus on PVP aspects (while not ignoring PVE outright) but PVP needs love, bring back the spirit of competition, the players and the viewers on Twitch.
You only have to go to Twitch and see why so many games remain on top and that's because of PVP.
I mean games survive that aren't on Twitch. This game has a pretty large playerbase.
I don't know why ZOS would be ok with the status quo of hanging on when they could do more to get the game back into the publics eye. How do you do that? Bring back the PVPers, push the game up the Twitch charts, get the gaming internet blogs talking about the game again and you will see how many new players it draws in and how many players come back.
This game has never been more successful, in their own words. They have carved out a unique space for their game and drawn a large audience with that strategy.
Well its sad to know they are so content with just being comfortable. I can't tell you numbers on console but looking at the steam charts the game has grown significantly but it seems to have already peaked in April and May of 2020 and are now bleeding players slowly.
https://steamcharts.com/app/306130
If you look at the charts they just seem to be stagnant in growth with concurrent players. They should not be just ok with this. Which goes back to my previous points, if they want to add more to this game then they need to start with making PVP work and how you do that is you bring back the PVPers, push the game up the Twitch charts, get the gaming internet blogs talking about the game again and you will see how many new players it draws in and how many players come back.
I'm not sure what the point to playing devils advocate is with my points unless you can show me PVE is the only thing that this game needs to survive.5 -
McTaterskins✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
This game has never been more successful, in their own words. They have carved out a unique space for their game and drawn a large audience with that strategy.
Just about every game company, business, and otherwise, will normally try and portray that.
19m purchases / account creations over the better part of a decade does not = 19m concurrent players. Stating that you have X amount of players just due to purchased copies or created accounts, a lot of which are free, doesn't mean that's the actual concurrent player number.
Consider especially when recent bolstering was due to sales during the Covid period. (2m or so in 2020?) - When you've got 19m purchases/accounts and not even 3 million of that across all platforms is playing concurrently, which I believe was closer to 2m on last reports, you've got a problem and you are bleeding.
I believe last report had ESO no longer even in the top 100 in regard to regular concurrent player numbers. (I don't have on hand would have to look it up again - also shown on some recent content creator analysis videos)
Edit: It's not conjecture of "conspiracy theory". It's actually a common sales tactic to make statements about overall sales vs reporting concurrent numbers. You have to thumb around on the ol' google for a bit, but the information is there in regard to concurrent players. Stadia and Steam report numbers almost live, daily, and consoles even have some sites that track.Edited by McTaterskins on 1 November 2021 20:333 -
![[Deleted User]](https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/06301530861bfae62d56b72eef4ac33d.png)
[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
Recently we've had to remove some posts for baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts please be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid action on one's own account, this includes baiting a large portion of the community.
Thank you for understanding.2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭McTaterskins wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »
This game has never been more successful, in their own words. They have carved out a unique space for their game and drawn a large audience with that strategy.
Just about every game company, business, and otherwise, will normally try and portray that.
19m purchases / account creations over the better part of a decade does not = 19m concurrent players. Stating that you have X amount of players just due to purchased copies or created accounts, a lot of which are free, doesn't mean that's the actual concurrent player number.
Consider especially when recent bolstering was due to sales during the Covid period. (2m or so in 2020?) - When you've got 19m purchases/accounts and not even 3 million of that across all platforms is playing concurrently, which I believe was closer to 2m on last reports, you've got a problem and you are bleeding.
I believe last report had ESO no longer even in the top 100 in regard to regular concurrent player numbers. (I don't have on hand would have to look it up again - also shown on some recent content creator analysis videos)
Edit: It's not conjecture of "conspiracy theory". It's actually a common sales tactic to make statements about overall sales vs reporting concurrent numbers. You have to thumb around on the ol' google for a bit, but the information is there in regard to concurrent players. Stadia and Steam report numbers almost live, daily, and consoles even have some sites that track.
I can back you up, 15 of those accounts belong to my wife and I. We bought them to create additional storage and for holding dailies... and never actually play them. A good number of players I know have 10+ accounts for themselves, which they bought when the game was on sale for $5. While the ZOS marketing dept may love using those numbers as "active accounts" and growth (accounts never go inactive btw), only a portion of them are new unique players, and a much smaller portion who actually stick around. The last bit is based off spikes in guild recruitment during ESO free & sale weeks, and the inevitable 30 days offline for most of them a month later when we remove them.3 -
LyraEmber✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
Edited by LyraEmber on 1 November 2021 23:152 -
McTaterskins✭✭✭✭All the video really does is put the math together for anyone that hasn't been paying attention.
Would be nice if after the next mayhem, they just....keep the server power. Would see a lot of friends literally rush back to the game. (Providing Dark Convergence isn't still as bad. - I'm on console so haven't seen the nerf yet. Heard its worse. Clips are worse.)0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭scelesticscylla wrote: »In my experience with cryodiil pvp in the years ive been pvping, I agree that its going down a dark path. Ive seen big time pvp groups up and leave because of the performance during prime time. I've experienced the mass boots from game mid pvp battle at keeps. The massive lag that hits when you are fighting 20+ vs 20+ and everyone can barely get 1 skill to go off and the fights become more of a "who can beat the lag" to win instead of actual players fighting players with the ability to use their skills. It sucks. But I still pvp because despite the performance, I just love pvp even if I'm not the best pvper xD
But back to the topic of the OP to this thread, I would love to see new pvp content. Or, in fact, a revamp of cyrodiil in general. I wouldnt mind them just shutting down cyrodiil completely for a good half a year if it meant they were actually going ham at pinpointing the issues, fixing the issues, and maybe even improving different aspects to cyrodiil in general. Like others said, maybe even give nice rewards for pvping other than just ur monthly transmutes and whatever ap u managed to make. Heck id love to see maybe some actual pvp cosmetics and attach them to possible new pvp achievements. But overall, cyrodiil and battlegrounds needs some polishing and updating. New content. Not the same old "mount running simulator."
And would it kill them to make forward camp usage timers not 5 min cds Especially with the lag issue right now.
Anyways thats just my two cents on the matter.
it's like i wrote this post myself...nice @scelesticscylla
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchasesEdited by AuraStorm43 on 2 November 2021 16:241 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchases
Are you referring to the ones they said they would be replacing, because they are so old it would be cheaper to replace them than pay the yearly maintenance contract? That was this years promise, although like last years "Year of performance improvements", I have yet to see it happen. What is happening with their purchases, is they are apparently not making any, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they keep repurposing Cyrodiil servers to host the new zones they keep pushing out, instead of buying new servers for even that purpose.
1 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchases
Are you referring to the ones they said they would be replacing, because they are so old it would be cheaper to replace them than pay the yearly maintenance contract? That was this years promise, although like last years "Year of performance improvements", I have yet to see it happen. What is happening with their purchases, is they are apparently not making any, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they keep repurposing Cyrodiil servers to host the new zones they keep pushing out, instead of buying new servers for even that purpose.
I’m referring to that video makes claims that ZOS continually downgraded servers, sure there’s evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten in some cases but it varies from patch to patch
Dragonhold for example on PS4 NA Cyrodil was completely unplayable with frequent crashing, usually multiple times per hour, it got so bad ZOS had to emergency patch it
To me thats not just a server issue they had to mess up during the coding process0 -
LyraEmber✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchases
Are you referring to the ones they said they would be replacing, because they are so old it would be cheaper to replace them than pay the yearly maintenance contract? That was this years promise, although like last years "Year of performance improvements", I have yet to see it happen. What is happening with their purchases, is they are apparently not making any, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they keep repurposing Cyrodiil servers to host the new zones they keep pushing out, instead of buying new servers for even that purpose.
I’m referring to that video makes claims that ZOS continually downgraded servers, sure there’s evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten in some cases but it varies from patch to patch
Dragonhold for example on PS4 NA Cyrodil was completely unplayable with frequent crashing, usually multiple times per hour, it got so bad ZOS had to emergency patch it
To me thats not just a server issue they had to mess up during the coding process
Bro, you should have stopped at "sure theres evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten"
Dragonhold was many years later after the events described in the video, and the pve servers are separate from the pvp servers, so their pve bugs and fps issues for a pve DLC were indeed a coding issue, but have nothing to do with the cyrodiil servers. This can be proven by the fact that they cleaned up those bugs over time and now Dragonhold works fine, whereas cyrodiil is still broken.
There is a massive difference in this discussion between pve bugs/fps lag, and cyrodiils performance. Its apples and oranges.
Bugs/fps get sorted with code. Server performance does not.Edited by LyraEmber on 2 November 2021 18:291 -
Magio_✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchases
Are you referring to the ones they said they would be replacing, because they are so old it would be cheaper to replace them than pay the yearly maintenance contract? That was this years promise, although like last years "Year of performance improvements", I have yet to see it happen. What is happening with their purchases, is they are apparently not making any, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they keep repurposing Cyrodiil servers to host the new zones they keep pushing out, instead of buying new servers for even that purpose.
I’m referring to that video makes claims that ZOS continually downgraded servers, sure there’s evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten in some cases but it varies from patch to patch
Dragonhold for example on PS4 NA Cyrodil was completely unplayable with frequent crashing, usually multiple times per hour, it got so bad ZOS had to emergency patch it
To me thats not just a server issue they had to mess up during the coding process
Bro, you should have stopped at "sure theres evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten"
He also keeps asking fellow players for ZOS financial/spending reports LMAO.
Just reject the evidence of your eyes. The servers just magically work better during MYM and immediately worsen after it ends. We'll never know what happens without financial reports.1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »I did have a look, he cites no names and has no actual backing outside of the aoe cap
The AOE cap is something ZOS fought tooth and nail on but he lacks evidence to support his server related claims outside of pure conjecture
Why does Cyrodiil suddenly work way better during Midyear Mayhem then starts to play like hot garbage again as soon as it ends?
Yes, it's a lot of anecdata, but that's all players have considering ZOS usually has the transparency of a brick wall. So please stop asking people for data you know they can't provide unless they break in to ZOS's headquarters.
This whole PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF or anything you say is automatically false is really lame. These are not random theories. It's the community arriving to a conclusion after years of cumulative experience. The theories try to explain what we're already experiencing. You're trying to brush the conclusions under the rug because we have no concrete data to provide as players. Even if there was concrete data, using it to try and convince you would be a extremely low priority lol.
So again, putting it at the end of my post so you don't conveniently forget to respond to this part. Please try to explain how Cyrodiil lag improves for MYM but then it all returns after it ends.
Ik the servers improve during midyear its well documented, i just want actual concrete proof instead of anecdotal evidence
[snip]
[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]
All of the available evidence has been gathered and presented. The video seems to put the puzzle pieces together in the only way they can fit. The only missing pieces to the puzzle are either an admission that this is what happened, or presenting an alternative, of which there have been zero presented.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Cgg9EqLPQ
So, if even after all the evidence has been presented, its still not enough for you unless the company admits fault publicly, then it will never be enough for you, because companies dont openly admit fault in public, its just not good PR.
For me, what happened to the persons account for making the video, tells me that it warrants taking a look at, and he details the message he received from them in the comments section. It looks pretty bad.
“Evidence” thats purely anecdotal, no one knows whats happening with ZOS’s server purchases
Are you referring to the ones they said they would be replacing, because they are so old it would be cheaper to replace them than pay the yearly maintenance contract? That was this years promise, although like last years "Year of performance improvements", I have yet to see it happen. What is happening with their purchases, is they are apparently not making any, and it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn they keep repurposing Cyrodiil servers to host the new zones they keep pushing out, instead of buying new servers for even that purpose.
I’m referring to that video makes claims that ZOS continually downgraded servers, sure there’s evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten in some cases but it varies from patch to patch
Dragonhold for example on PS4 NA Cyrodil was completely unplayable with frequent crashing, usually multiple times per hour, it got so bad ZOS had to emergency patch it
To me thats not just a server issue they had to mess up during the coding process
Bro, you should have stopped at "sure theres evidence based on how much worse over time performance had gotten"
He also keeps asking fellow players for ZOS financial/spending reports LMAO.
Just reject the evidence of your eyes. The servers just magically work better during MYM and immediately worsen after it ends. We'll never know what happens without financial reports.
Isn't it obvious? The mass influx of extra players onto the Cyrodiil servers during MYM stabilizes them, and under normal circumstances, there just aren't enough players in Cyrodiil to keep the servers running smoothly!9