PVP Mass Exodus: Give them a reason to return

SkillzMFG

As someone who PVPed since release - the only thing I want is for large scale PVP to work as intended. No new additions are needed, I just want the original thing to work. Battlegrounds are fine. Imperial City is fine, I just want polished Cyrodiil servers.

However it's been 7 years now and I don't see it ever getting fixed. As a matter of fact it's just getting worse.

CharlieFreak

This 'mass exodus' to NW - it's quite ironic, as the PvP lag in NW is at a level never EVER before seen in ESO. Not to mention a massive list of exploits and bugs.

Certain twitch streamers who continue pushing NW have lost all credibility with me.

James-Wayne

So now that PvP players have left can we get ZOS to revamp Cryodiil into the zone it should have been in the beginning with lots of quests and interesting things to discover and do...

newtinmpls

Crash427 wrote: »

Some of us bought this game specifically because we were promised a large openworld PVP map with huge battles. Now that doesn't work, so they've remade the game into a casual exploration game in a fantasy setting.

This is a really good point.

Initially ZoS tried to "sell" the idea of massive battles and that the PvE was the "warmup" to it.

Unfortunately, (for their theories of what would sell and make money) what actually happened was that people came in droves to play "Skyrim with friend" and explore the world and demand housing and such (remember we didn't get it for YEARS). These are the people who continue to pump the most money into the game. So this is the crowd that gets the stuff.

karekiz

PvP needs more game modes (Yeah lets play capture the same keep for 5 more years> or a revamped Cyrodiil map to make it better please.

CharlieFreak

moo_2021 wrote: »

BroughBreaux wrote: »

Seeing casual players talking about how PvP players are "loud" and "entitled" is really funny, because if we didn't make it funny, it'd be infuriating. Clearly they don't understand anything about the issues PvP players face.

The performance problem is now hitting PvE as well and it's getting worse.

I'm not really seeing that in PvE? What areas do you find that happening? Guessing you mean in Trials?

moo_2021

CharlieFreak wrote: »

I'm not really seeing that in PvE? What areas do you find that happening? Guessing you mean in Trials?

group dungeons and public dungeons.

Similar problems:

- casted buffs disappear next second or after being hit
- group burst healing not working on some teammates but fine for others and then fine on the same guy a second later
- can't charge when there are multiple enemies in front
- caught by mechanics right after rolling out of it, already 2-3 meters away

Also once in some public dungeon I was unable to use certain ability for like 5 seconds, but all others were fine

And the most obvious one is mobs standing after being killed. Just 6 months ago that didn't exist at all or I'd have remembered.

DreamsUnderStars

Just wait, New World is a flash in the pan, they will return.

NagualV

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Just wait, New World is a flash in the pan, they will return.

.....only to leave for the next one.....

moo_2021

NagualV wrote: »

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Just wait, New World is a flash in the pan, they will return.

.....only to leave for the next one.....

Been looking for the next one but hmmm

MEBengalsFan2001

The issue with ZOS doing too much in PVP is that PVP players typically are not the one making the MMO company money. The PVE players typically make the company money.

PVP players want new content but what would it be, another map like Imperial City? The lack of PVP players isn't a result of ZoS. It is a result of outside forces that ZoS can't control. For instance people simply stop playing video games, people go over to new games, etc... people outside life takes priority and the time they do have to play is significantly reduced.

This happens in both PVE and PVP. The thing is though, more players come to play ESO for its PVE content. You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

NordSwordnBoard

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The issue with ZOS doing too much in PVP is that PVP players typically are not the one making the MMO company money. The PVE players typically make the company money.

PVP players want new content but what would it be, another map like Imperial City? The lack of PVP players isn't a result of ZoS. It is a result of outside forces that ZoS can't control. For instance people simply stop playing video games, people go over to new games, etc... people outside life takes priority and the time they do have to play is significantly reduced.

This happens in both PVE and PVP. The thing is though, more players come to play ESO for its PVE content. You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

Last night (Monday) there was a que of 40 people to get in around 9pm est. How much is enough? How do I convince people that using what we have to the fullest is the only way to get more content? That's a pretty hard sell right there...

Nagastani

I'm finding I like New World, despite some of its flaws.

Still like ESO, have many good memories from back in the good old days.

But seeing threads like this makes me wonder about some decisions I made regarding the game. I both love, admire and hate ESO all at the same time really. Its interesting the discussions I've seen about who the game was made for. Ideally I'd like to believe it was made for everyone.

One thing I think we can all agree on is ESO still has loads of potential. So much can still be done but the changes being cranked out seem to be directed towards short-term gains, which I find unusual. I wonder what they're waiting for.

divnyi

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

PVP players want new content but what would it be, another map like Imperial City? The lack of PVP players isn't a result of ZoS. It is a result of outside forces that ZoS can't control.

Or, well, they can analyze why ppl don't like certain game mods and tweak that.

I mean yeah they tweak sets and balance because people are most vocal about it, but they don't, for example, move daily questgivers to the sewers, as a simple QoL fix for IC. They ignored battleground DM issue for years and didn't yet give any viable permanent solution. Cyro was screwed up for as long as I remember this game for a lots of different reasons.

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

I can't. Unless I create a dedicated guild, alliance system doesn't allow me to just gather existing group of ppl into PvP, they will have different alliances among their PvP toons, so at best I can make a poll and run with like ~40% of the guild.

Gathering PvE group is much simpler, even progression groups.

Emmagoldman

karekiz wrote: »

PvP needs more game modes (Yeah lets play capture the same keep for 5 more years> or a revamped Cyrodiil map to make it better please.

Yep, even of performance is fixed I'm so bored. I'd love to see the game centered around winning "global control". much smaller pvp zones that have you all over the map. There are so many gorgeous landscapes that pvp never touches. Swamps, to Breton trees, cave systems ect.

Cyro can be reduced in scale. I'd rather see the cities turned into pve or pve/pvp zones and many smaller pvp zones may also help the server.

Emmagoldman

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

This happens in both PVE and PVP. The thing is though, more players come to play ESO for its PVE content. You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

Players come for pvp as well. The amount of pvers I know that say "look, its only pvers!" ignore the fact that they surround themselves with similar people. Pvpers, also pve because its the best way to gear out and fit metas. In fact, its in your interest to have severally fully geared out pve alts so you can compete.

I know plenty of people that tried eso for the pvp. The stick around but leave from performance, shifting metas, being stuck in pve to get gear, or in time boredom from having 2 pvp maps and battlegrounds. I like pve as well and its obvious to say that pve options FAR surpass pvp. If you juxtaposed this, and never developed dungeons after COH2 or Craglon trials, its fair to say pvers would start looking for other games.

Nomadic_Atmoran

karekiz wrote: »

PvP needs more game modes (Yeah lets play capture the same keep for 5 more years> or a revamped Cyrodiil map to make it better please.

What would that accomplish? They are removing content from PvP already due to a lack of interest from the playerbase and what we already have is laggy, choppy and prone to freeze on you. Add in ball groups, proc sets and what we have is already a mess. How would different game modes help a currently slowly dying community?


*by stating the community is dying I am not stating that PvP will be absolutely dead or ever will die. But its obvious that the community has taken a hard hit over the years and just isnt what it used to be. And will likely continue to slowly bleed players.

JJOtterBear

newtinmpls wrote: »

Crash427 wrote: »

Some of us bought this game specifically because we were promised a large openworld PVP map with huge battles. Now that doesn't work, so they've remade the game into a casual exploration game in a fantasy setting.

This is a really good point.

Initially ZoS tried to "sell" the idea of massive battles and that the PvE was the "warmup" to it.

Unfortunately, (for their theories of what would sell and make money) what actually happened was that people came in droves to play "Skyrim with friend" and explore the world and demand housing and such (remember we didn't get it for YEARS). These are the people who continue to pump the most money into the game. So this is the crowd that gets the stuff.

not just that. developers are allowed to change the direction of their product and i'm 100% positive that their ToS includes a clause that says that anything is subject to change at their sole discretion. and people had to agree to that.

divnyi

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

They are removing content from PvP already due to a lack of interest from the playerbase

They are removing it exactly because there is interest in deathmatch, because it's more competitive.
See where it goes? Competitive.

We want 3v3 ranked. It will totally resonate with current high-MMR playerbase.

We want 16v16, maybe even with some siege elements. That will create smaller cyro-like battles, possible with less lags (because 12 players in BGs don't lag, I don't think adding double that will cause any problems), and much more fair with both sides having equal numbers.

barney2525

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I've hit a wall in ESO PvP where I'm having trouble finding a reason to play. There's no carrot to chase. Battlegrounds have always been my go-to but after 400+ deathmatch the excitement is wearing off.

I need achievements with good rewards and a proper ranking system for me to get invested.

Serious question - Achievements for what? Having the best gear? Having the best class/skills set up ? "killing" X number of opponents who may or may not have been competitive ?

Seems to me what PvP is missing is major objectives to conquer.

RoninMB

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The issue with ZOS doing too much in PVP is that PVP players typically are not the one making the MMO company money. The PVE players typically make the company money.

Really wish people would stop using this excuse. There are plenty of pvp players spending money on new content when it comes out and other stuff from the crown store. Do people really think pvp players are all still running around Cyrodiil in base game sets from when the game first came out?

moleculardrugs

Skoomah wrote: »

My friends list is now suddenly half inactive with people last being logged into the game 4+ days ago. They’ve all gone to a new game and if that game successfully keeps their attention, there is little to no chance half my friends are coming back to play ESO.

ZOS... you need to give people a reason to play your game. There have been no announcements and no indication through years of content releases that brand new PVP content is going to be released. Without anything new to play, discover, or learn, then people have absolutely no incentive to come back to your game.

Are you going to release some new PVP content soon? If not, say goodbye forever to a large chunk to your long time player base.

Make a new class 🙁 been waiting

moleculardrugs

carly wrote: »

New World is geared towards PVP players, it's a different game to ESO so no surprise PVP players are trying it out. That being said, I'm PVE and I am also trying out NW. I'm not leaving ESO but I wanted a second game to play to add some diversity to my gaming experience and I'm quite enjoying it. I don't think one game can be 'all' to everyone, most that try end up failing.

It's too early yet to see how New World will fare - as others have said 'it's new' so too early to panic but even if people do end up not coming back - that is expected given ESO's age.

I tried NW and I like ESO mainly for pvp. I honestly don’t like how it’s set in the 17th century and there aren’t any elves or Argonians and cat-people 😂 I like the races of ESO and how they coexist with one another

Storm27Stars

Maybe ZoS secretly developed New World themselves, to finally fix the lag in Cyrodiil 😂.

Seriously though, Xbox EU Cyrodiil is 1 and 2 bar alliances in the week evenings recently, and get to about 11.30pm and your fighting tumbleweeds mostly.

Even queuing in the evenings on the weekend is a thing of the past now, can jump straight in.

My favourite PvP area is IC, but unless the PvE hoardes descend for MYM (pew, pew!!), you can be running from area to area, not seeing anyone to fight for ages. It's such a great space for fighting, if you can find someone.

They need to give players incentives to play in IC.

EmEm_Oh

Three-story keeps (maybe just one for each faction), higher outposts, more siege weapons (i.e., coldfire oils, ladders for the keeps, ability to open a few windows of the keep to shot an arrow out, etc.).

I will agree, cyro needs more land area added. Those bridges that we cannot cross...make then crossable, but also vulnerable to being attacked, etc.

hands0medevil

StamPlar_1976 wrote: »

I don't care about the mass exodus of us pvpers. The only thing that kept me here was the crying of pve-ers during Midyear Mayhem. Other than that, pvp can die in this game. The devs don't care about fixing Cyrodiil or pvp period. So why should I or anyone else care?

I'm loving it in New World and another pvp game that I knew about, but didn't try until a couple of weeks ago. I'm never coming back. ZOS won't ever fix Cyrodiil and pvp. So why should I ever come back? It's clear as day they don't want us here. Let the pve-ers have it.

The general problem is that players too often confuse pve content in eso with housing, pets and mounts. Open world, dungs, trials are also only worse with each new dlc release and rewards for trifectas or most difficult achievements etc are joke. This game does not belong to pvers either

Rex-Umbra

ZOS only listened to the PvX streamers last few years has been hurting PvP. Lost 24 man groups for no reason caused large loss of casual pvpers whom could no longer find a PUG and running around ungrouped just made them PvX food. Then the PvX crowd got in ZOSes ear asking for ear demanding no proc PvP causing more casuals to quit cause none of their gear worked now. Then they demanded anti Zerg sets so we got those sets... Then they ruined objective based BGs causing all non elite meta following pvpers to quit that too. Game has so many more casual pvpers who want to chill in a group play objective based PvP than the loud forum all day PvXers that think regular players will stick around when they are being treated like prey.

martinhpb16_ESO

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The issue with ZOS doing too much in PVP is that PVP players typically are not the one making the MMO company money. The PVE players typically make the company money.

PVP players want new content but what would it be, another map like Imperial City? The lack of PVP players isn't a result of ZoS. It is a result of outside forces that ZoS can't control. For instance people simply stop playing video games, people go over to new games, etc... people outside life takes priority and the time they do have to play is significantly reduced.

This happens in both PVE and PVP. The thing is though, more players come to play ESO for its PVE content. You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

You are basing this on opinion and not statistics. To imagine that pvp players don't pve as well and spend money either on crowns or eso plus is inaccurate.

The forum and creator feedback is definitely indicating that lag + constant 'rebalancing' + constant meta changes + no meaningful new content + meta misfires like Dark Convergence have had a negative impact on the pvp population.

It is not the players job to market pvp to new players, we are already paying Zos our hard earned money to do that as well as provide a game that works and evolves with players not against them.

I played LOTRO for 7 years. For years there was no new trials or pvp development. There was constant feedback on the forums from trial and pvp players. It became even more grating because casual pve players were constantly saying, it is casual content that makes the money, the devs don't want to waste their time on pvp or trials.

Then ESO released - the pvp population moved from LOTRO to ESO. From my LOTRO server alone we practically filled a guild with pvp players. People left in droves because ESO had trials and new and exciting pvp. My LOTRO server actually closed, as did other servers. Warner Brothers eventually sold the game. Yes LOTRO is still going but you can bet your bottom dollar it doesn not make as much money as it did.

Be careful what you are arguing for - pvp players spend money, they pve, they organise guilds and trial runs. They also create a lot of content which does actually market the game. If pvp players are warning that this side of the game is in crisis from a player perspective you should be joining them in solidarity because it will definitely effect the ESO you know if they all move on.

My pvp guild is pretty much all playing NW now. I'm still here because I am GM of a 7 year old trade guild that is always full and is very successful. If I go that guild also goes.

In fact the other day a player who does not pvp said to me that the comradery in our trade guild was pretty much the only reason he still plays ESO. He is actually a big crown seller as well.

[Snip] You may think you don't need PVP players, just see what happens when they all leave and stop spending their money and contributing to other aspects of life in Tamriel.

[Edited for Real World Politics]

Casul

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The issue with ZOS doing too much in PVP is that PVP players typically are not the one making the MMO company money. The PVE players typically make the company money.

PVP players want new content but what would it be, another map like Imperial City? The lack of PVP players isn't a result of ZoS. It is a result of outside forces that ZoS can't control. For instance people simply stop playing video games, people go over to new games, etc... people outside life takes priority and the time they do have to play is significantly reduced.

This happens in both PVE and PVP. The thing is though, more players come to play ESO for its PVE content. You want players in PVP, recruit players to PVP and show them how much fun PVP can be. Get enough players playing or Qing into PVP maps and eventually ZoS will be like, yup time for us to get more PVP content.

You are basing this on opinion and not statistics. To imagine that pvp players don't pve as well and spend money either on crowns or eso plus is inaccurate.

The forum and creator feedback is definitely indicating that lag + constant 'rebalancing' + constant meta changes + no meaningful new content + meta misfires like Dark Convergence have had a negative impact on the pvp population.

It is not the players job to market pvp to new players, we are already paying Zos our hard earned money to do that as well as provide a game that works and evolves with players not against them.

I played LOTRO for 7 years. For years there was no new trials or pvp development. There was constant feedback on the forums from trial and pvp players. It became even more grating because casual pve players were constantly saying, it is casual content that makes the money, the devs don't want to waste their time on pvp or trials.

Then ESO released - the pvp population moved from LOTRO to ESO. From my LOTRO server alone we practically filled a guild with pvp players. People left in droves because ESO had trials and new and exciting pvp. My LOTRO server actually closed, as did other servers. Warner Brothers eventually sold the game. Yes LOTRO is still going but you can bet your bottom dollar it doesn not make as much money as it did.

Be careful what you are arguing for - pvp players spend money, they pve, they organise guilds and trial runs. They also create a lot of content which does actually market the game. If pvp players are warning that this side of the game is in crisis from a player perspective you should be joining them in solidarity because it will definitely effect the ESO you know if they all move on.

My pvp guild is pretty much all playing NW now. I'm still here because I am GM of a 7 year old trade guild that is always full and is very successful. If I go that guild also goes.

Do people really believe that PvPers don't spend money? With all the build variety in this game most PvPers are happy to drop cash on dungeons and expansions as long as there is meaningful sets that can give them options when theorycrafting. Hell on ps4 I had all the DLC up till blackwood. Starting over on PC I will eventually get the sub if PvP gets some much needed attention.

furiouslog

I played New World. I don't like it at all, but there are some things that ZOS could learn from it.

1. The gear and skill sets are simplistic. Skills are limited and their cooldowns are super long. All of this reduces server burden, which is why NW runs pretty smoothly.
2. NW PVP has an effect on the world itself, which increases the stakes and provides incentives for PVP participation.
3. A lot of people like NW overland PVP, because it creates a stake and some tension/excitement, so having the ability to voluntarily flag for overland content is an attractor for PVP-oriented players.

I like playing no-proc, but my EP PVP guild does not, because the more serious players are staying in CP campaigns, and PC-NA Ravenwatch is basically overrun by AD zergs at the moment. AD has a deep bench of players committed to winning the campaign more than the others, so guilds who want fights don't stay because they are either going to get zerged down, or if they are on AD, they have no one challenging to fight. More people subsequently come in on AD to get Tier 3 rewards, which further bolsters the AD zergs. So, CP it is.

But, when we go into CP at high pop times, the game is unplayable. A slide show where skills don't fire off.

I'd personally trade off the deep theorycrafting of multiple sets/skills/etc in PVP if it meant that we could have a fun and stable playing environment. My experience has been that no-proc is more stable in heavy combat situations. But even then, there is still a lot more to address when it comes to engagement, faction balance, and stake. Some half-imagined ideas:

1. Current emp's faction gets a bonus that increases the chances of getting rarer loot drops/leads/etc throughout the world if you got your Tier 1, which creates a stake for PVErs.
2. Smaller instanced gametypes that have the ability to affect assets in Cyrodiil. For example, there could be "megakeeps" where you have 12v12 capture and hold battles or some such, the capture of which would integrate into the campaign.
3. Completely redesign the way PVP gear is specified and acquired, such that it stacks customizable bonsues that are server-calculation friendly. Named sets stay in overland and can be used for duels or whatever, but dedicated PVP zones use this customizable gear. ZOS has already calculated and balanced the value of different sets. Let people build their own sets by stacking the bonuses they want using the balancing rulesets ZOS has developed, which scratches the theorycrafting itch while constraining items to abilities that reduce server burden.

I know there are downsides and counterpoints to all of that, and loads of details would have to get sorted. It's just thoughts.