coop500 wrote: »

New World is trash, once the new-ness wears off they'll be back. ESO has way too much content and different ways to play to be fully replaced by New World.

It's just laughable to even compare the two games. ESO is just better because it has been around longer. If the PVP crowd leaves so what. Zos can concentrate on something else which I bet would make them happy.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

I've hit a wall in ESO PvP where I'm having trouble finding a reason to play. There's no carrot to chase. Battlegrounds have always been my go-to but after 400+ deathmatch the excitement is wearing off.

I need achievements with good rewards and a proper ranking system for me to get invested.

And 2 teams. 3 teams is just annoying.

Youyouz06 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I don’t think it was proc sets. It’s the lag, it’s skillz not firing off and disconnects.

We always had the lag, not much has changed here.
But lately, PvP is going down the drain:
1st, PvP people got fed up about GETTING BOMBED left and right.
2nd, PvP people got fed up not knowing if GEAR BONUSES are WORKING OR NOT.
3rd and final nail, PvP people are fed up about GETTING DARK CONVERGED left and right.

Dark Convergence, Hrothgar, Plaguebreaker etc. have become a PLAGUE in PVP.
PvP got so bad with it, some of the very best ESO players said "RIP PVP".

"The Ultimate Desaster when it comes to balancing"
starting at 6:00, about Hrothgar at 7:10, result at 8:40:
"Sets like Hrothgar have no counter [...] all skill is eliminated from the game"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXfVPel38I

The new PvP Proc sets are worse than the Ball Groups they should prevent.
ZOS decided to fight the pest with cholera.
But now we have to handle both, the pest AND the cholera.
Moreover, Ball Groups got even worse using the cholera themselves...

I really wonder how ZOS wants to clean up this PvP Proc Plague recently created.

That is the most whiney video from a you tuber I have ever seen. I have played since beta on PC NA. This guy is making a plug to go play New World lol. Is lag a problem in eso? yes. We’re ball groups a massive problem? Yes. Are specific sets too op? Yes. That doesn’t mean the game is dying. A lot of us are waiting in the shadows for them to fix/adjust. If they don’t then we won’t be back. But to say it’s dying??? Pffft. He wants to go to new world. So let him. Bye Felicia.

I don't find it particularly whiney. I think there are a lot of truths within that video/exposé.
It is true that there haven't been substantial updates to Cyrodill over the years. We received the Volundrung (axed) and a few changes to how bridges work with some slight terrain changes, but that's it!

Performance has been getting worse, the testing period during the year of performance was atrocious and was one of the first waves of guild disbands/non motivation and the introduction of the new proc sets has once again made people frustrated.

It's only natural that these doubts and evidently existing problems come out when something new is proposed elsewhere.
It could also be judged as a call out to our producer to finally watch and listen to their communities reactions to stale content, right?

I don't care for comments about this is trash this isn't...end of the day other things exist, some aspects are better and some aren't..deal with it and have more constructive comments, please

More constructive comments?

Dude. This guy is making it like New World is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why? [snip] Streamers come and go. While they are posting their content about best build bis build, we are already running it. And then we find the next best bis builds [snip]. Proc sets aren’t the problem. It’s the servers. It always has been. Everyone who has played since beta knows this. If streamers want to say they are leaving the game let them go. [snip] If Zos ever decides to fix this mess and bring this game back to its promised potential of 100s of players battling it out at once then most of us originals will return. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

All of the reasons I've read here are valid reasons, but I think the biggest one is something no one mentioned.

ZOS doesn't listen to PvP players and never addresses their concerns.

There's never any effort from ZOS to say "we hear you and we understand your concerns". It's radio silence. ZOS continues to churn out 4 Dungeons and 2 casual questing zones, as well a bunch of new houses, furnishings, motifs, etc. but the only thing PvPers can get is an emote and not even a recognition that the gameplay experience for a PvP player is dogwater?

PvP being in the [snip] state it's in is bad PR and so they've just chosen to ignore it because a new player will not be enticed to try out ESO when they hear that entire communities within the game are ignored and a huge chunk of the game is so unplayably laggy that people are leaving in droves to literally any other game with a PvP mode, even if it's not even good (New World sucks and it's a cope to say otherwise).

This is even a problem for the endgame PvE people as well, but at least they get new content. The only time ZOS listens to endgame PvE players is when they're looking to nerf a set or ban a bunch of people for reporting a bug.

As it stands, the only people that ZOS actually listens to (as evidenced by the patch notes and the content they create) are casual players who do midgame content like fashion, housing, RP, and questing. That demographic also happens to spend the most amount of money in the crown store, but I'm not going to insinuate anything there.

Who gets new questing zones every year? Who gets new houses and furnishings every year? Who gets new motifs every year? Who gets new costumes every year? Who gets new style parlor crown store items every year? Casual players.

Of course there's overlap on that list between all kinds of players. PvP players get costumes and motifs, sometimes PvP players get a big house to put the Ruby Throne in, etc. But not one single other player demographic is catered to more by ZOS than casual players.

But even when you listen to what the panel said at Quakecon earlier this year as well as the Year-End stream a few days ago, when they talk about the game's feature set, and ask each other scripted questions like "What do you like to do in ESO" it is always, without exception, casual content. The only time PvP is ever mentioned is in passing and everyone tries to pretend like it doesn't exist or say things implicitly bad about it. "Matt's a ganker (that's a thing we all hate, remember?)" was one I can recall from Quakecon a few months ago.

[edited for bashing]

Elder scrolls has pvp? No way.

It's over for ESO pvp.

I would just like to hear something from ZOS about their plans to improve/fix/update PVP...their silence is concerning

Why would we come back ? We're pressing keys in pvp and all skills fire instantly, and no lag during huge player battles.

Jazraena wrote: »

I have died specifically because of DC twice since it was released. I have seen someone pulled from a keep once, but it never happened to myself. It has shown up in a recap more often given how many people are using it, but other times it wasn't in any way instrumental to me dying.

Now, maybe I'm far more competent at this than I give myself credit for, but given I'm hearing similar stories from other people experienced and inexperienced I suspect the complaints are just largely hyperbolic, instead.

I suspect you don't pvp much or pvp out of prime time then. Or, possibly, are a dark convergence user who doesn't want it nerfed I don't pvp that much and tend to spread it out across half a dozen different characters to keep it fresh. I checked my magDK's stats over the weekend - he's my guy with DC - to see how he was doing. He's got over 400 KBs using Dark convergence, another 100 or so from the vicious death that goes with it and prob the same again from the shock ring follow up. He's done 4 maybe 5 sessions over the last month since he got it? I mean, maybe I'm a pvp god. But I don't think so. Those stats dwarf his kills from the entirety of the rest of his career in cyro. Something's off. As to not seeing people pulled from keeps? Come on. I was at sieges Allesia, Sej, BRK, Aleswell over the weekend. It was happening every ten seconds.

On the main topic though, I'm sorry but I just don't see the "mass exodus" people are talking about. Are pvp numbers down? Sure. But not dramatically since new world came out. The decline has been pretty steady over the last year; the main factors seemed to be the reduction in group size, which basically killed off a lot of pugs; the proc set tests which, pace the vocal minority on this forum, were deeply unpopular with many; and the change to Ravenwatch - numbers there are noticeably down, but, while Greyhost is up, it doesn't feel as busy as the old Raven seemed to be. Have some people gone to new world? Well, sure. People always shoot off to try the new kid on the block. But Ive been surprised how few - hardly anyone in my guild's gone over. And 4 times out of 5, they come back. Because the grass isn't always greener on the other side, and new games have a big hill to climb to compete with existing games, expecially if players are heavily invested in them.

None of that's to say that maybe zos shouldn't invest some more in pvp. But I don't see new world as a good reason. Bottom line, pvp is a pretty niche activity in this game, practised by a pretty small minority of players. Would I like to see some effort invested? Sure. But it's probably justifiably low down zos's priority list. If they were to push pvp, I'd guess they're going to have to broaden it's appeal and that's going to mean closing the skill gap some. That's going to make the pvp'rs even more unhappy. Be careful what you wish for....

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

I don’t think it was proc sets. It’s the lag, it’s skillz not firing off and disconnects.

We always had the lag, not much has changed here.
But lately, PvP is going down the drain:
1st, PvP people got fed up about GETTING BOMBED left and right.
2nd, PvP people got fed up not knowing if GEAR BONUSES are WORKING OR NOT.
3rd and final nail, PvP people are fed up about GETTING DARK CONVERGED left and right.

Dark Convergence, Hrothgar, Plaguebreaker etc. have become a PLAGUE in PVP.
PvP got so bad with it, some of the very best ESO players said "RIP PVP".

"The Ultimate Desaster when it comes to balancing"
starting at 6:00, about Hrothgar at 7:10, result at 8:40:
"Sets like Hrothgar have no counter [...] all skill is eliminated from the game"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXfVPel38I

The new PvP Proc sets are worse than the Ball Groups they should prevent.
ZOS decided to fight the pest with cholera.
But now we have to handle both, the pest AND the cholera.
Moreover, Ball Groups got even worse using the cholera themselves...

I really wonder how ZOS wants to clean up this PvP Proc Plague recently created.

That is the most whiney video from a you tuber I have ever seen. I have played since beta on PC NA. This guy is making a plug to go play New World lol. Is lag a problem in eso? yes. We’re ball groups a massive problem? Yes. Are specific sets too op? Yes. That doesn’t mean the game is dying. A lot of us are waiting in the shadows for them to fix/adjust. If they don’t then we won’t be back. But to say it’s dying??? Pffft. He wants to go to new world. So let him. Bye Felicia.

I don't find it particularly whiney. I think there are a lot of truths within that video/exposé.
It is true that there haven't been substantial updates to Cyrodill over the years. We received the Volundrung (axed) and a few changes to how bridges work with some slight terrain changes, but that's it!

Performance has been getting worse, the testing period during the year of performance was atrocious and was one of the first waves of guild disbands/non motivation and the introduction of the new proc sets has once again made people frustrated.

It's only natural that these doubts and evidently existing problems come out when something new is proposed elsewhere.
It could also be judged as a call out to our producer to finally watch and listen to their communities reactions to stale content, right?

I don't care for comments about this is trash this isn't...end of the day other things exist, some aspects are better and some aren't..deal with it and have more constructive comments, please

More constructive comments?

Dude. This guy is making it like New World is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Why? [snip] Streamers come and go. While they are posting their content about best build bis build, we are already running it. And then we find the next best bis builds [snip]. Proc sets aren’t the problem. It’s the servers. It always has been. Everyone who has played since beta knows this. If streamers want to say they are leaving the game let them go. [snip] If Zos ever decides to fix this mess and bring this game back to its promised potential of 100s of players battling it out at once then most of us originals will return. [snip]

I don't stream, and I simply offered my opinion. None of it was "whining" and I still play the game to trade. But ESO PvP is simply not good enough and will never improve, so myself, and a huge amount of endgame experienced PvPers (we all mutually agreed in multiple large pvp guilds) have entirely quit ESO PvP because of that.

[edited to remove quote]

Doesn't matter how much content they add to PVP if they keep adding sets and changing gameplay in ways that make people want to stay as far away as possible.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

For any part of the game to be useful, it has to attract new players.

PVP, in any game, has the problem of putting new players up against veterans, and thus the new players will die all the time, and thus be put off.

To attract people to PVP, you need to have:

(a) more useful rewards for doing it, rather than just things that are either cosmetic, outdated or otherwise useless
(b) more chance for a newbie, without gear, without skills, to actually stand a chance in whatever fights they get into. Which means, either more chance to put them up against people in a similar situation and less chance for them to actually be fighting veterans at all, or more chance to actually beat a veteran in a fight.

Open-world PVP is incapable of satisfying (b), regardless of whether you do it like Cyrodiil (wide open spaces, have to respawn back at base after dying, takes ages to get back there especially if the transport links are down and you have to ride on horseback) or like Imperial City (narrow corridors, tons of stealth ganking and bombing, lose half your Tel Var stones when you die). The closest it can get to being satisfying for new players is if they are not put up against veterans at all. Battlegrounds *could* have been done with a PVP Ranking system that puts like against like... but they were not.

Being one-hit from stealth is NOT fun. You think that doing it is fun, but it's fun for the one player doing it, and not fun for the many players who are his victims and get put off doing PVP as a result.

Losing half your gains when you die is even less fun. The Tel Var penalty in Imperial City is even worse when you realise that a winning attacker doesn't even have to be carrying anything at all, and thus is putting nothing of his own at risk if his gank fails to work. That, at least MUST BE CHANGED: no stealing more stones than you're currently carrying. Or even less than that. Make it so the maximum steal is 50% of whatever was brought to the fight by whoever was carrying least: in a group kill, if one person is carrying 0, then that one person ruins the tel var gains for the rest of the entire group because the maximum steal would be based on his 0.