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PVP Mass Exodus: Give them a reason to return

  • dinokstrunz
    dinokstrunz
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    myskyrim26 wrote: »
    This is an ESO crisis.
    If ignored, the disease will gradually get worse and it will be too late.
    ZoS didn't give people what they wanted.
    Please listen to our request more.

    ESO is a PVE game now. More and more players joing every day. PVP crisis? Maybe. As a pure PVE player, I don't care, at all.

    1. That's not considered to be a good talking point for an MMO
    2. That also means more and more players are leaving, ZoS has never been good at holding new players down in ESO. People come and they leave after several weeks or a month or so.
    3. PvP is on direct route to very low populations, yesterday no campaign reached pop lock even during prime time.
    4. You don't care, that tells me you don't understand much of this games current plights.
  • Dyngrin
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    I agree with the OP. ZOS has even managed to have me seek out and try a new MMO for hopefully better PvP and I've been playing since early access. How did ZOS manage to do this? The major reasons besides bugs:

    1. Lag - Apparently they are unable to fix or mitigate it.
    2. Low Population Bonus (LPB) - Horrible design, a proper Handicap for the leading/high pop faction is needed instead.
    3. Volendrung Hammer - Another poor design by making the leading/high pop faction stronger, the opposite of a Handicap.
    4. Dark Convergence - A free (Proc) ability with multiple CCs and NO CC IMMUNITY (and still in the PTS version).

    --Dyn
    Grand Overlord Dyngrin, Templar, Daggerfall Covenant (PC/NA)
  • drunkendx
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    [snip]
    Maybe if Cyro population gets low enough I'll give Cyro Skyshards and fishing a go.

    [Edited for Baiting]
    Edited by Psiion on 14 October 2021 19:38
  • SalamanNZ
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    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game
  • kargen27
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    SalamanNZ wrote: »
    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game

    I haven't experienced it but I haven't done any of the 50v50 battles yet. In the forums there are complaints of lag and there is a video of players purposely spamming an ability to cause lag so they can't be targeted while their AoE does damage to the objective. It's really obvious as you can hear the leader calling out when to cast the ability by saying lag now lag now. A player in the group posted it because he saw how it would ruin the game if not fixed.

    Still early of course but not a lot of random PvP going on over there. I even see some players flagged for PvP fishing without much worry of seeing an enemy that will attack them. Many are saying they want to get to max level first.

    I think the changes ESO made to Dark Conversion will bring players back when that goes live. Actually I think quite a few haven't really left for other games. They are just taking the same wait and see approach to jumping back into PvP that I am. I am spending my time in ESO trophy hunting to finish achievements while waiting for Dark Convergence to be fixed.

    If ESO can smooth out the lag some players will come back in droves. The combat system here is much more fluid and it is easier to participate in large battles.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • NagualV
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    SalamanNZ wrote: »
    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game

    In my opinion, the game is overall better.

    I haven't experienced lag yet.

    This is coming from a PVP perspective. I havent taken my flag off yet since i hit level 10, and on average, in the open world, i get an open world fight every couple of hours. It is dependant on what server you are on. As someone else said, a lot of people are still leveling, and many may start flagging more once they hit max level.

    As someone who doesnt particularly enjoy battlegrounds, and primarily enjoys solo open world pvp, i am having a blast, and ive made a few friends after random open world fights. Also, despite what i see people posting here, there is skill involved in the combat. Good timing and good aiming are rewarded. It is not the SAME as combat in ESO, but it is still enjoyable and rewarding when you defeat someone who is several levels higher than you.

    If story/quest driven content is what you like, its not for you.

    As someone who pvp's and enjoys open world pvp, its awesome.

    I didnt want to leave ESO, but i would love for someone to tell me what is new in Cyrodil since April 2014?
  • moo_2021
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    Nobody mentions GW2? balanced PvP looks nice.

    I would love not having to waste days grinding and farming just for being able to enjoy PvP in ESO. Something is definitely very wrong that PvP players have to spend more time PvE than PvP, or vice versa (e.g. alliance skills).


    will try it this weekend since BG queue takes so long now
  • Reverb
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    myskyrim26 wrote: »
    This is an ESO crisis.
    If ignored, the disease will gradually get worse and it will be too late.
    ZoS didn't give people what they wanted.
    Please listen to our request more.

    ESO is a PVE game now. More and more players joing every day. PVP crisis? Maybe. As a pure PVE player, I don't care, at all.

    @myskyrim26 Are you incapable of empathy, though? Do only things you personally care about matter?

    I, for example, don’t care about housing. I have neither the patience nor creativity and can’t relate to people who do. But I respect that it’s an important part of the game for many, many people, and so I enjoy seeing their enjoyment of it and I want it to work well for them.

    I don’t care much for costumes or the outfit system, but I support players who are passionate about it, and join my voice to theirs when they post pics of buggy cosmetics and ask that they be fixed.

    I don’t have an interest in 4 new dungeons and 24 new sets every year, but I also don’t complain when they are announced, and don’t invalidate the perspective of people who have valid feedback on them, based on their own interest.

    It’s ok for you to not care about pvp. It’s not ok for you to completely write off those who do. People who care about this game have an interest in not seeing an active section of the community leave.

    Edited by Reverb on 14 October 2021 22:51
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • kargen27
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    NagualV wrote: »
    SalamanNZ wrote: »
    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game

    In my opinion, the game is overall better.

    I haven't experienced lag yet.

    This is coming from a PVP perspective. I havent taken my flag off yet since i hit level 10, and on average, in the open world, i get an open world fight every couple of hours. It is dependant on what server you are on. As someone else said, a lot of people are still leveling, and many may start flagging more once they hit max level.

    As someone who doesnt particularly enjoy battlegrounds, and primarily enjoys solo open world pvp, i am having a blast, and ive made a few friends after random open world fights. Also, despite what i see people posting here, there is skill involved in the combat. Good timing and good aiming are rewarded. It is not the SAME as combat in ESO, but it is still enjoyable and rewarding when you defeat someone who is several levels higher than you.

    If story/quest driven content is what you like, its not for you.

    As someone who pvp's and enjoys open world pvp, its awesome.

    I didnt want to leave ESO, but i would love for someone to tell me what is new in Cyrodil since April 2014?

    Most obvious is lag. Snide comment on my part aside though we have new sets, new classes, they removed doors from resource towers, factions can't knock down their own resource towers. You don't have to be at the keep to get defense AP like in the past. Remember running away from a keep so one person could get all the AP while they tried to gain emperor? We got the hammer (yeah I know most hate it), we can siege bridges and gates and oh yeah some nifty new siege equipment in antiquities. We got a champion point free campaign. We got champion points. We no longer see deer when we are running/riding to the next keep. We got Recall Stones. Former emperors no longer get a boost. There is a food or drink that will boost how AP levels your rank. We could only heal members of our group for a while. Groups are smaller now. Other things I'm sure some good some bad. Thing is they are still trying to get PvP right. Having to move calculations server side really messed it up and they haven't recovered fully from that yet.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    Hey, I have an idea, let's add MOAR PROC SETS!

    That'll have people lining up because nothing says, "Player skill," like waiting for your clothes to kill stuff for you.
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
  • NagualV
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    NagualV wrote: »
    SalamanNZ wrote: »
    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game

    In my opinion, the game is overall better.

    I haven't experienced lag yet.

    This is coming from a PVP perspective. I havent taken my flag off yet since i hit level 10, and on average, in the open world, i get an open world fight every couple of hours. It is dependant on what server you are on. As someone else said, a lot of people are still leveling, and many may start flagging more once they hit max level.

    As someone who doesnt particularly enjoy battlegrounds, and primarily enjoys solo open world pvp, i am having a blast, and ive made a few friends after random open world fights. Also, despite what i see people posting here, there is skill involved in the combat. Good timing and good aiming are rewarded. It is not the SAME as combat in ESO, but it is still enjoyable and rewarding when you defeat someone who is several levels higher than you.

    If story/quest driven content is what you like, its not for you.

    As someone who pvp's and enjoys open world pvp, its awesome.

    I didnt want to leave ESO, but i would love for someone to tell me what is new in Cyrodil since April 2014?

    Most obvious is lag. Snide comment on my part aside though we have new sets, new classes, they removed doors from resource towers, factions can't knock down their own resource towers. You don't have to be at the keep to get defense AP like in the past. Remember running away from a keep so one person could get all the AP while they tried to gain emperor? We got the hammer (yeah I know most hate it), we can siege bridges and gates and oh yeah some nifty new siege equipment in antiquities. We got a champion point free campaign. We got champion points. We no longer see deer when we are running/riding to the next keep. We got Recall Stones. Former emperors no longer get a boost. There is a food or drink that will boost how AP levels your rank. We could only heal members of our group for a while. Groups are smaller now. Other things I'm sure some good some bad. Thing is they are still trying to get PvP right. Having to move calculations server side really messed it up and they haven't recovered fully from that yet.

    I hear you and all.....

    But if you really stop and think, and go over the list of things added to cyrodil since launch, is any of it substantive content? Of the things you listed, how much of that is engaging?

    I want to be absolutely clear, I respect ZOS and ESO....they have a wonderful game. And it's very successful. They know their core playerbase well, and take care of them.

    I have the ice wraith pet. dwarven pet, and senche tiger mount. I've been an eso subscriber since then. I've done all the pve stuff required, I dont dislike pve. I did mages guild, psijic, ledgerdemain, thieves, dark brotherhood, antiquities...I'm not against any of that, and overall I've enjoyed it. Whenever a new set/item comes out that I want, I put my original/1st character Orc DK tank on duty. I will tank whatever dungeon is necessary, and I gladly take people on runs.This last time, I must have tanked 12 or 13 normal cradle of shadows just for the sithis lead. Before EVERY pve tank run I do, I say "hey everyone, if anyone needs to do the quest, just let me know. If you want to go fast or slow, let me know" I understand it's an mmo and the work required.

    But in ESO , for me, the endgame is pvp. And I like open world pvp the most. So, i would ask that people think about it from my perspective. After I got my gaze of sithis, put in the time required for all the skills I want, I log into cyrodil in 2021..............

    go back and look at your list....after a while, it's just gotten stale.
  • JJOtterBear
    JJOtterBear
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    ...
    Edited by JJOtterBear on 15 October 2021 02:12
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    NagualV wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    NagualV wrote: »
    SalamanNZ wrote: »
    Ummmm. The new game which came out a few weeks back that people have gone to. Is anyone here playing both? I am curious about the Lag in that game

    In my opinion, the game is overall better.

    I haven't experienced lag yet.

    This is coming from a PVP perspective. I havent taken my flag off yet since i hit level 10, and on average, in the open world, i get an open world fight every couple of hours. It is dependant on what server you are on. As someone else said, a lot of people are still leveling, and many may start flagging more once they hit max level.

    As someone who doesnt particularly enjoy battlegrounds, and primarily enjoys solo open world pvp, i am having a blast, and ive made a few friends after random open world fights. Also, despite what i see people posting here, there is skill involved in the combat. Good timing and good aiming are rewarded. It is not the SAME as combat in ESO, but it is still enjoyable and rewarding when you defeat someone who is several levels higher than you.

    If story/quest driven content is what you like, its not for you.

    As someone who pvp's and enjoys open world pvp, its awesome.

    I didnt want to leave ESO, but i would love for someone to tell me what is new in Cyrodil since April 2014?

    Most obvious is lag. Snide comment on my part aside though we have new sets, new classes, they removed doors from resource towers, factions can't knock down their own resource towers. You don't have to be at the keep to get defense AP like in the past. Remember running away from a keep so one person could get all the AP while they tried to gain emperor? We got the hammer (yeah I know most hate it), we can siege bridges and gates and oh yeah some nifty new siege equipment in antiquities. We got a champion point free campaign. We got champion points. We no longer see deer when we are running/riding to the next keep. We got Recall Stones. Former emperors no longer get a boost. There is a food or drink that will boost how AP levels your rank. We could only heal members of our group for a while. Groups are smaller now. Other things I'm sure some good some bad. Thing is they are still trying to get PvP right. Having to move calculations server side really messed it up and they haven't recovered fully from that yet.

    I hear you and all.....

    But if you really stop and think, and go over the list of things added to cyrodil since launch, is any of it substantive content? Of the things you listed, how much of that is engaging?

    I want to be absolutely clear, I respect ZOS and ESO....they have a wonderful game. And it's very successful. They know their core playerbase well, and take care of them.

    I have the ice wraith pet. dwarven pet, and senche tiger mount. I've been an eso subscriber since then. I've done all the pve stuff required, I dont dislike pve. I did mages guild, psijic, ledgerdemain, thieves, dark brotherhood, antiquities...I'm not against any of that, and overall I've enjoyed it. Whenever a new set/item comes out that I want, I put my original/1st character Orc DK tank on duty. I will tank whatever dungeon is necessary, and I gladly take people on runs.This last time, I must have tanked 12 or 13 normal cradle of shadows just for the sithis lead. Before EVERY pve tank run I do, I say "hey everyone, if anyone needs to do the quest, just let me know. If you want to go fast or slow, let me know" I understand it's an mmo and the work required.

    But in ESO , for me, the endgame is pvp. And I like open world pvp the most. So, i would ask that people think about it from my perspective. After I got my gaze of sithis, put in the time required for all the skills I want, I log into cyrodil in 2021..............

    go back and look at your list....after a while, it's just gotten stale.

    I don't think it has got stale so much as it is simply broken. If performance was better and we could have those epic battles with one faction sitting on a bridge and the other two hitting from both ends trying to get across we would all be there. The combat was good and really when you come right down to it we are fighting other players and how they adapt is what provides the dynamics. Of course today someone would just knock the bridge down but those fights at bridges and gates were huge and they were fun. You could either be right in the middle of it or out on the fringes in smaller skirmishes.

    I'm hoping ESO can get Cyrodiil fixed and I am also hoping more people start flagging while just running around in the new game. Two completely different types of PvP and it would be great to be able to move back and forth between the two as the mood struck.
    I'm lucky in ESO that I enjoy a lot of the content. I don't really have an end game I just kind of do whatever strikes me at the moment. I am in a progression group that runs once a week but beyond that nothing is ever planned.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • FuryOfTyphon
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    I've been playing and subbed to this game since release.
    Like many others I've done everything there is too do in this game from fishing to trials, dungeons, housing, fa$hion, hoarding mount$ and $kin$... But my true love for this game is the combat and the PvP. There truly is no other game out there like it WHEN it works.

    The sentiment I've got in game for years (mostly by pvers), is that PVP doesnt make this game money, thats why they dont care, wont fix it and wont release new pvp content.

    Well after all that time I think PVPers have finally decided that it is time that we dont care anymore. I've logged in a few times since September 27 and have checked the populations and then logged (cant do endeavors with no craft bag).
    In all my time playing since the release of this game, Cyrodiil has never been this empty.
    It feels like PVP is well and truly dead this time. And for good reason, the neglect, lack of attention, transperency, bugs, the procs, the meta switches, the bugs, and the only thing that matters which is performance or lack thereof.

    So me , my girlfriend, some of my guildies and most of your PVP communities money will quite literally be spent elsewhere on that which shall not be named, and that seems to be okay with ZOS and with the PVE community.

    And if its not, please fix PVP.
    Too many too list.
  • AdamLAD
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    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on 15 October 2021 13:12
  • kargen27
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    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]

    I disagree with your premise. The incentive is to play against other players. It was fun. Rewards to me didn't matter. I enjoyed the fights. It was competitive. As changes occurred players scrambled to adjust for that slight advantage over others. When it works the fights are about sheer numbers or about skill. That is exactly what PvP should be. All ESO needs to do is give us a place to fight that works then get out of our way and let us fight.
    Bears repeating the problems started when ZoS had to change how the game calculates things to reel in Cheat Engine. They have been fighting the consequences of those changes since. Before then PvP was great.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • master_vanargand
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    The incentive is gold.
    I sold one legendary accessory I bought at Alliance Points for 700,000 gold.
    PvP is very profitable.
  • JJOtterBear
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]

    I disagree with your premise. The incentive is to play against other players. It was fun. Rewards to me didn't matter. I enjoyed the fights. It was competitive. As changes occurred players scrambled to adjust for that slight advantage over others. When it works the fights are about sheer numbers or about skill. That is exactly what PvP should be. All ESO needs to do is give us a place to fight that works then get out of our way and let us fight.
    Bears repeating the problems started when ZoS had to change how the game calculates things to reel in Cheat Engine. They have been fighting the consequences of those changes since. Before then PvP was great.

    wait, pvp was great when people were running cheats?
  • Vevvev
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]

    I disagree with your premise. The incentive is to play against other players. It was fun. Rewards to me didn't matter. I enjoyed the fights. It was competitive. As changes occurred players scrambled to adjust for that slight advantage over others. When it works the fights are about sheer numbers or about skill. That is exactly what PvP should be. All ESO needs to do is give us a place to fight that works then get out of our way and let us fight.
    Bears repeating the problems started when ZoS had to change how the game calculates things to reel in Cheat Engine. They have been fighting the consequences of those changes since. Before then PvP was great.

    wait, pvp was great when people were running cheats?

    More like since cheat engine wasn't hogging up server performance those that were not cheating, and didn't encounter cheaters, had a much more enjoyable experience. Not the cheats themselves which were just as, if not more, infuriating to deal with.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Stefirex
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    PVPer's whine that nobody wants to PVP with them. Yet, when players do show up and put lfg in zone chat, they are consistently ignored when groups are running, and they're not all full. You guys damage your own play. ZOS doesn't need to.
  • Jackey
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    Stefirex wrote: »
    PVPer's whine that nobody wants to PVP with them. Yet, when players do show up and put lfg in zone chat, they are consistently ignored when groups are running, and they're not all full. You guys damage your own play. ZOS doesn't need to.

    It's one of the consequences of the 12 player group limit.
    PvP guilds don't want to invite random players anymore like they used to because of limited space.
    Which is a bit disappointing because the same guilds used to be very engaging and friendly with players trying out Cyrodiil.
    PS | EU
  • kargen27
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]

    I disagree with your premise. The incentive is to play against other players. It was fun. Rewards to me didn't matter. I enjoyed the fights. It was competitive. As changes occurred players scrambled to adjust for that slight advantage over others. When it works the fights are about sheer numbers or about skill. That is exactly what PvP should be. All ESO needs to do is give us a place to fight that works then get out of our way and let us fight.
    Bears repeating the problems started when ZoS had to change how the game calculates things to reel in Cheat Engine. They have been fighting the consequences of those changes since. Before then PvP was great.

    wait, pvp was great when people were running cheats?

    Yeah you nailed it! People flying around dropping endless ultimates on the hapless peasants below was the apex in the history of all game play.
    PvP was smooth then. If you could be online when the cheaters were all tucked into bed the battles were epic. ZoS should have kept the bans for cheating permanent instead of letting them cry and whine their way back into the game. Dealing with Cheat Engine is when the lag got really bad. ZoS has been trying to deal with it since. Would be great if they could find a way to cope with Cheat Engine and allow things to go back client side. They have a really good system in place that was popular when it worked. Players in other games mention how good the combat system in ESO is often. If performance was better the campaigns in Cyrodiil would be full again across all the campaigns.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Ostonoha
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    Just actually fix the performance (and give a slight tweak to some of these awful sets we have had of late) in cyro and I would bet 75-95% of the population would return overnight at the sound of ESO pvp servers not lagging or causing massive desynchs. regardless of a new game coming out, pvpers had been promised for years. Literally year after year that "this is the year of performance fixes". We even had almost a year with constant shifting of what gear could be used, what group size is, what heals could or could not heal friendlies. Only to see the games performance get worse and worse. Sure we have issues in pvp where imo, the fights have become stale and boring due to bad decisions and poor balance with gear and skills. But those can be changed in a single update. The performance is the real killer issue for pvpers. We have bugs in the pvp zone that have been around since day 1 that have yet to be fixed. (Stuck in combat, stuck in walls after a knock up) How many years can a player base deal with those issues before they are burnt out?

    For the record what im about to say is not meant to "bait" I am legitimately curious about this. I have noticed many times when I read a pvp post asking for content updates or fixes players who are not fond of PVP coming into the thread and saying to the poster/posters "leave" or "its not a pvp game" That has happened in this thread as well. Now I do not read pve posts bc for the main part, I do not care about pve. ZoS could put in a trillion content items or zero for pvers it would not bother me in the slightest. If PVE community got tons of content I would not be upset or angry. But do PVPers go into pve posts and say to people asking for changes in pve to move onto a different game? Do they say its not the game for you get out? (And no. posts about pvers being killed in pvp events does not count. It a pvp event)
  • kargen27
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    "But do PVPers go into pve posts and say to people asking for changes in pve to move onto a different game? Do they say its not the game for you get out?"

    Not that I have noticed but PvE players do tell other PvE players to leave all the time. Or suggest they should leave anyway.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • divnyi
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    AdamLAD wrote: »
    Theres 0 incentive to go into PvP. The rewards are beyond horrendous. There literally no competitiveness either. No reason to be good at the game. Zos will look at a god player and think "needs nerfs" or have absolutely no feeling towards it. Why not promote being good, [snip] Games plagued with horrendous performance and a mediocre reward system that doesn't promote getting better at the game. Such a shame. This game could of been so so good in terms of PvP. Probably the best ever game to do PvP. [snip]

    [edited for bashing]

    I disagree with your premise. The incentive is to play against other players. It was fun. Rewards to me didn't matter. I enjoyed the fights. It was competitive. As changes occurred players scrambled to adjust for that slight advantage over others. When it works the fights are about sheer numbers or about skill. That is exactly what PvP should be. All ESO needs to do is give us a place to fight that works then get out of our way and let us fight.
    Bears repeating the problems started when ZoS had to change how the game calculates things to reel in Cheat Engine. They have been fighting the consequences of those changes since. Before then PvP was great.

    wait, pvp was great when people were running cheats?

    Yeah you nailed it! People flying around dropping endless ultimates on the hapless peasants below was the apex in the history of all game play.
    PvP was smooth then. If you could be online when the cheaters were all tucked into bed the battles were epic. ZoS should have kept the bans for cheating permanent instead of letting them cry and whine their way back into the game. Dealing with Cheat Engine is when the lag got really bad. ZoS has been trying to deal with it since. Would be great if they could find a way to cope with Cheat Engine and allow things to go back client side. They have a really good system in place that was popular when it worked. Players in other games mention how good the combat system in ESO is often. If performance was better the campaigns in Cyrodiil would be full again across all the campaigns.

    Wonder if they could check like 10% of game events to detect hacks rather then move 100% of computations to the backend.
  • Nogawd
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    Jackey wrote: »
    Stefirex wrote: »
    PVPer's whine that nobody wants to PVP with them. Yet, when players do show up and put lfg in zone chat, they are consistently ignored when groups are running, and they're not all full. You guys damage your own play. ZOS doesn't need to.

    It's one of the consequences of the 12 player group limit.
    PvP guilds don't want to invite random players anymore like they used to because of limited space.
    Which is a bit disappointing because the same guilds used to be very engaging and friendly with players trying out Cyrodiil.

    Groups died years before they cut down the group limit.

    PVP guilds died many years ago as well.

    It's a different issue, but you do not need to group in Cyro to do anything. You don't need a group to get carried as you can zerg surf. You can see where the fights are on the map with the icons or you can watch the zone chat (annoying sometimes) for call outs to attacks.

    You don't need to group for anything other than to comfort fear for some newer players, it seems.
  • divnyi
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    Nogawd wrote: »
    You don't need to group for anything other than to comfort fear for some newer players, it seems.

    You are dismissing new player experience as if that's something small and has no value.
  • Casul
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    divnyi wrote: »
    Nogawd wrote: »
    You don't need to group for anything other than to comfort fear for some newer players, it seems.

    You are dismissing new player experience as if that's something small and has no value.

    I agree, running solo is terrifying when you start. You die to fast because you aren't experienced and end up hating the time. At least having a small group you have some people to help you out. It's an important dynamic to the pvp learning curve.
    PvP needs more love.
  • kargen27
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    Nogawd wrote: »
    Jackey wrote: »
    Stefirex wrote: »
    PVPer's whine that nobody wants to PVP with them. Yet, when players do show up and put lfg in zone chat, they are consistently ignored when groups are running, and they're not all full. You guys damage your own play. ZOS doesn't need to.

    It's one of the consequences of the 12 player group limit.
    PvP guilds don't want to invite random players anymore like they used to because of limited space.
    Which is a bit disappointing because the same guilds used to be very engaging and friendly with players trying out Cyrodiil.

    Groups died years before they cut down the group limit.

    PVP guilds died many years ago as well.

    It's a different issue, but you do not need to group in Cyro to do anything. You don't need a group to get carried as you can zerg surf. You can see where the fights are on the map with the icons or you can watch the zone chat (annoying sometimes) for call outs to attacks.

    You don't need to group for anything other than to comfort fear for some newer players, it seems.

    Nah groups were doing good before we went to twelve. If they were not there would have been no reason to reduce the numbers. Groups were not simply about being protected and still are not. Grouping makes it easier to find well as it kind of implies players in your group. You can when the group is split look at the map and tweak positioning.

    You are correct that you do not need to group but there are advantages beyond just protection in grouping. If it were just protection there would be no need to group as you pointed out we could all just zerg surf.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Amottica
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    Nogawd wrote: »
    I have played since beta.

    Nothing was like that first year of PvP. The Q's to get in would sometimes reach over a hundred. There were handfuls and handfuls of guilds on every alliance. Ever since, however, it has dropped. The Q's got smaller. The guilds vanished. Sure, new guilds would pop up, but never last too long or be how it was in that first year.
    Blame this, blame that, there is a lot of blame to go around, but it's always back to the lag. No one wants to play in it. It's been a problem since day one and most have just come to the conclusion that it will never be fixed. It is what it is.

    It's a business, and ZOS seems to have found their bread and butter and they will milk it for everything they can get. I understand it, but it's just frustrating that we never got those huge large scale battles that was promoted before the game even hit beta.

    I remember the hype and the claims. Huge battles with hundreds of players. Siege everywhere. Bows all over the top of the keeps. Players able to climb the walls. Battles that would seemingly last hours.

    Instead that first year in huge fights, all you would get on your screen was insane choppiness and rubber banding. You would be smashing buttons and just hoping to see your side still alive after the server caught up.

    ZOS has tried some things in hopes to try and patch it up, but these tests and cheap shots in the dark just never work. I get that they want to try and patch it before committing to upgrading server hardware, but it's beyond that time now. They have killed the entire PvP community. This is the worst state this part of the game has ever been in. Yes, it's basically at an unplayable point right now with the server performance and the lack of PvP players.

    I have no idea what is going to go on from here.

    From what I understand, that wait was with multiple campaigns being cap locked on slow weeknights and having a much larger cap lock to begin with. If that is true then that mass exodus happened years ago.

    I am certainly not leaving ESO for NW even though I am playing NW hoping there is something good in it eventually. I played in NW since Alpha when it was more hardcore in every aspect than it is today.

    It is funny how little PvP that is happening in the game since most players are not flagged. It used to be full-time PvP for everyone even though few players actually attacked me back then and when they did they seemed to be pretty bad at it. You could loot them once you killed them. It was a pretty good idea but they could not cease the PvP greifing so they tried to go PvE.
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