Do not buy Crown Crates!!!
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MadLarkin✭✭✭✭
That's a bold statement. Any factual evidence to back that up?
It's difficult to demonstrate unless you've been a part of an MMO community where it has happened and have witnessed it first hand. Basically try any MMO with a crate system and behold as the majority of the "new content" is a trickle feed of items being jammed into crates. STO is my personal example. All of the newest and most highly sought after ships are stuffed into crates. The latest "expansion" was basically just a slightly different way to create a new character that still leads into the existing content. They added new "episodes" (missions) to play, but many of them came AFTER the launch of the expansion. Klingons and Romulans haven't seen any meaningful content updates in ages, and no talk has occurred of adding another race.
I tried The Old Republic after it went F2P and found the restrictions to be ridiculous (having to pay to wear purple gear? kiss my butt), and have seen multiple reports stating that the addition of more content has slowed considerably since their Cartel crates were introduced.
If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If the players are supplementing your revenue just from buying crates, what incentive is there to take all the time and effort necessary to develop legitimate content?6 -
MadLarkin✭✭✭✭
Well now you can purchase the gold edition with all the DLC for what... 20 bucks? Something like that. I mean yes the correct terminology is B2P, but 20 bucks is really cheap to experience the entirety of Tamriel.
Don't you mean $60 unless you're buying from a shady key site or getting a used console copy or something? Either way, even $60 is an acceptable price for all of the content found in ESO. My point is that "they need to make money SOMEHOW" argument is super flimsy because they are already heavily monetized when compared to F2P games and other MMO's in general, WoW being the exception of course.
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Solus✭✭✭✭
It's difficult to demonstrate unless you've been a part of an MMO community where it has happened and have witnessed it first hand. Basically try any MMO with a crate system and behold as the majority of the "new content" is a trickle feed of items being jammed into crates. STO is my personal example. All of the newest and most highly sought after ships are stuffed into crates. The latest "expansion" was basically just a slightly different way to create a new character that still leads into the existing content. They added new "episodes" (missions) to play, but many of them came AFTER the launch of the expansion. Klingons and Romulans haven't seen any meaningful content updates in ages, and no talk has occurred of adding another race.
I tried The Old Republic after it went F2P and found the restrictions to be ridiculous (having to pay to wear purple gear? kiss my butt), and have seen multiple reports stating that the addition of more content has slowed considerably since their Cartel crates were introduced.
If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If the players are supplementing your revenue just from buying crates, what incentive is there to take all the time and effort necessary to develop legitimate content?
I've played SWTOR as well and it pales in comparison to ESO and what you can and cannot do. Do i think ESO will have barriers to equippable content that would effect in game mechanics or prowess? No. Also, the crates really are a temporary thing, I've seen the more you buy the easier it is to get what you want as everything already collected is instantly turned into gems that go toward something you could buy. It's been not even a week (maybe a week i dont remember the launch of the crates) but people already have the mounts and once that happens people will stop buying them. And then there are alot of people that dont want to participate because they either cant, or dont want to.
Sure the people that only design pets, and mounts and stuff can easily now just turn them into crate stuff, because the interface is already there. So yes before you go there that is a possibility. But mounts and pets don't create an in game barrier between players because neither of those things give others a one up from the next.
When the gold edition launched on steam it was 19.99, I remember because i had just bought all the DLC outright and then they release the gold edition WITH all the DLC and i remember not being too happy about that.The-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade
https://www.twitch.tv/beenerschnitzel
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/GGWXsY0 -
MadLarkin✭✭✭✭Sure the people that only design pets, and mounts and stuff can easily now just turn them into crate stuff, because the interface is already there. So yes before you go there that is a possibility. But mounts and pets don't create an in game barrier between players because neither of those things give others a one up from the next.
When the gold edition launched on steam it was 19.99, I remember because i had just bought all the DLC outright and then they release the gold edition WITH all the DLC and i remember not being too happy about that.
You're missing my point. My concern isn't about the barriers or the price of the game or who has what special mounts that I don't have. My one and only concern is whether the presence of crates will help or hurt the creation of future content. Trends indicate the latter.
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Solus✭✭✭✭
You're missing my point. My concern isn't about the barriers or the price of the game or who has what special mounts that I don't have. My one and only concern is whether the presence of crates will help or hurt the creation of future content. Trends indicate the latter.
They're a 250 man team. I doubt the crates, which took them like 6-8 months or more to finalize, took more than 1/10th of that team in totalThe-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade
https://www.twitch.tv/beenerschnitzel
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/GGWXsY0 -
MadLarkin✭✭✭✭
They're a 250 man team. I doubt the crates, which took them like 6-8 months or more to finalize, took more than 1/10th of that team in total
Sure, but we need to make sure that they don't make so much money off of the crates that they let half of the dev team go and focus more and more on the crate content as time goes on. Less employees = larger profit margins, and if you're making the majority of your money through crate content, what's the incentive to keep paying a lot of people to keep adding meaningful updates?1 -
Solus✭✭✭✭
Sure, but we need to make sure that they don't make so much money off of the crates that they let half of the dev team go and focus more and more on the crate content as time goes on. Less employees = larger profit margins, and if you're making the majority of your money through crate content, what's the incentive to keep paying a lot of people to keep adding meaningful updates?
Well chances are that prior to the crown crates even being a thing, other DLC like clockwork city, and housing and others have already been in development for awhile. I mean in 2016 alone we got Thieves guild, and DB DLC. Looking back, those are HUGE, new places to explore, content, quests, all voice acted, scripted, etc. I would think that writing out a good story, and having it voice acted would be the time consuming part. Making the story flow and not make it feel out of place. The art and dev part would be simple comparatively
Dont be so quick to throw in the towel for them. We have big things coming in 2017.Edited by Solus on 7 December 2016 17:22The-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade
https://www.twitch.tv/beenerschnitzel
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/GGWXsY1 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Why aren't you guys yelling at Neverwinter, Vegas, Black Hawk, The lotto or any other thing that has these exact things?
It's simple, you have poor chances, but everyone already knows that.
My friend keeps telling me, "it's the internet, complaining is what it does."
Edit: I just thought of this, and I think it rather clever, "An addict is someone that is unable to turn their habit into a profession."
One because this isn't a Neverwinter forum, and I don't play Neverwinter. Second Vegas has to post their odds, and are overseen by a governing body to regulate them.
The addict comment may be clever but rather unnecessary. Preditory behavior in video games is sad fact of the world we live in. I am not so much against the crates, but I can see this as a problem for someone with an addiction. While it isn't ZOS job to babysit everyone or protect them from themselves, it also says alot about the company as a whole. The majority of players would buy any of these rewards as a straight purchase. Rng is already bad in this game, now they have put it in the crown store for real money. Now the grind cost some, not the few lucky ones, real life money.
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Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭TequilaFire wrote: »
I know exactly what I am purchasing, a chance to get something with useless crowns I get every month that accumulate with no use for. I did not spend one dollar over what I pay for my monthly subscription anyway.
I feel sorry for the few who can not control their impulses and over buy such items, but some of us can enjoy a beer or a glass of wine without drinking the whole case.
I worked over 30 years owning my own company so I can retire and do what I want, and thank goodness I can.
Now if we could only convert AP to Gems!
So can I ask you something? And before I get to the question, I'm not totally against the boxes.
Would you have just purchased the items in the boxes if they were offered for a straight price? Or is it the thrill of opening the boxes and not knowing?
I also sub and have bought the crates because of excess crowns, I just prefer to know what I'm buying. To me the investment wasn't worth the 5000 crowns, although I have nothing else to spend them on at the moment.
And I will explain this is not sarcasm as I'm actually interested in the answer.
I would also like to add that for me personally , if the crates would give a better return on gem it would be easier to justify spending more on them.Edited by Stopnaggin on 7 December 2016 17:460 -
raidentenshu_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stopnaggin wrote: »
So can I ask you something? And before I get to the question, I'm not totally against the boxes.
Would you have just purchased the items in the boxes if they were offered for a straight price? Or is it the thrill of opening the boxes and not knowing?
I also sub and have bought the crates because of excess crowns, I just prefer to know what I'm buying. To me the investment wasn't worth the 5000 crowns, although I have nothing else to spend them on at the moment.
And I will explain this is not sarcasm as I'm actually interested in the answer.
This question wasn't directly at me, but I am going to answer it anyways.
The point of me buying crowns with my RL money is to purchase items from the store that I actually want, directly. I don't find it a thrill of opening boxes that will give me random junk that I don't need. This game, ESO, is quite known for the poor RNG... It is a large flaw within the game itself. If I struggle to find the proper BIS gear due to RNG .... How else am I suppose to entrust the crown crate RNG system to give me items that is worthy?
I don't plan on purchasing $100 +++ on a mount that I'm probably wont even get due to the *** poor RNG.3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you're making the majority of your money through crate content, what's the incentive to keep paying a lot of people to keep adding meaningful updates?
Because people want the shiny stuff to show it off in the game, but there needs to be stuff to do in the game in order to show it off... Without new content, people will stop playing and therefore stop buying shiny things too ?
Just trying to be logical here.
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
Because people want the shiny stuff to show it off in the game, but there needs to be stuff to do in the game in order to show it off... Without new content, people will stop playing and therefore stop buying shiny things too ?
Just trying to be logical here.
This is true, but my concern is that when the GAME is what is paying the bills, management needs to be doing things that will make people pay for the game. This is increasingly not the situation with ESO. With ESO, the financial purpose of the game is becoming more and more to bring players to the Crown Store.
It is not necessary to make the best game possible when this is what the purpose of the game is. New content only needs to be just average enough to not drive players away.
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Solus✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »
This is true, but my concern is that when the GAME is what is paying the bills, management needs to be doing things that will make people pay for the game. This is increasingly not the situation with ESO. With ESO, the financial purpose of the game is becoming more and more to bring players to the Crown Store.
It is not necessary to make the best game possible when this is what the purpose of the game is. New content only needs to be just average enough to not drive players away.
Well the thing that brings players to play the game is the content, not the store. Nobody is buying the game to just buy things from the store, they buy the game to play it. The stuff in the store is an added bonus that isn't required to play the content.
So they would still have to expand and make more content for people to play, and continue to do so. Without that there would be no players, which means no money, regardless what is or isnt in the store.Edited by Solus on 7 December 2016 18:59The-Pumpkin-King // Stamblade
https://www.twitch.tv/beenerschnitzel
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
My PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/GGWXsY0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well the thing that brings players to play the game is the content, not the store. Nobody is buying the game to just buy things from the store, they buy the game to play it. The stuff in the store is an added bonus that isn't required to play the content.
The first part is a given for this discussion. This is why I refer to the game itself as the hook.
You are a typical player. To you, the purpose of the game is to play it. To you, the store stuff is an optional added bonus. A B2P/F2P game studio does not have the luxury of thinking like that. They make little to no money off your purpose and your added bonus is the entire world to them. This is the disconnect between the game studio and the customer. The studio is selling one thing, the player is buying something completely different.
To the degree that ZOS falls into that pit will determine the future of the game, as defined by the players. To ZOS, eventually, the game will have "run the course" and they will simply close it and move on.
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rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread (and most others) remind me of Monty Python's "Arguement Clinic"."Get off my lawn!"2 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »
This question wasn't directly at me, but I am going to answer it anyways.
The point of me buying crowns with my RL money is to purchase items from the store that I actually want, directly. I don't find it a thrill of opening boxes that will give me random junk that I don't need. This game, ESO, is quite known for the poor RNG... It is a large flaw within the game itself. If I struggle to find the proper BIS gear due to RNG .... How else am I suppose to entrust the crown crate RNG system to give me items that is worthy?
I don't plan on purchasing $100 +++ on a mount that I'm probably wont even get due to the *** poor RNG.
Me neither, I bought a 15 pack, didn't get anything worthwhile, it may have been equivalent to the 5k crowns but nothing I would have bought directly. I was just curious as to will someone still gamble for those if they were offered directly. I wouldn't but just a morbid curiosity.1 -
penek✭a close call ? http://www.pcgamesn.com/china-loot-box-regulations (china government gonna force all companies to provide chances for items in "loot boxes"The regulation comes from China's Ministry of Culture, via NeoGAF, and states that "online game publishers shall promptly publicly announce information about the name, property, content, quantity, and draw/forge probability of all virtual items and services.
"The information on draw probability shall be true and effective."6 -
Slylok✭✭✭Lets not forget that the last Paid DLC ZOS released was Shadows of the Hist I think (?) and how long ago was that??? Then they release One Tamriel and next up is Housing for free in 2+ months. The next Paid DLC probably isnt going to be for another 3 months at least AFTER the Housing update.
It is going to be over a half year in between DLC cash flow for ZOS. These crates will keep large free updates possible along with other large DLCs ( creating all of Vvardenfel aint cheap ). A necessary evil so we all should do our best to live with them. Nothing in them is required for gameplay. Gotta separate our Needs from our Wants.
Edited by Slylok on 8 December 2016 18:17Youtube ESO First Person Gameplay - http://tinyurl.com/o6evusk
Twitter - SlylokYoutube
Google+ - Slylok1 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭a close call ? http://www.pcgamesn.com/china-loot-box-regulations (china government gonna force all companies to provide chances for items in "loot boxes"
Well this is an interesting turn of events. Here's the official regulation from the Chinese government, Google translate does a pretty good job with it.
Your move ZOS.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just seen this on massively:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/08/china-is-cracking-down-on-mmorpg-lockbox-vendors/
Says a lot about the "free market" when a communist regime ends up leading the way on consumer-friendly regulation for lockboxes.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges7 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well this is an interesting turn of events. Here's the official regulation from the Chinese government, Google translate does a pretty good job with it.
Your move ZOS.
Damn, beat me to it
Allow cross-platform transfers and merges1 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should have card games in taverns, with max stakes of 100 gold per hand.
If I get any more, it's just to collect gems for the next season's drop. I'd have to be in a "gamble for fun" mood though, not expecting anything."Get off my lawn!"0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just seen this on massively:
http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/08/china-is-cracking-down-on-mmorpg-lockbox-vendors/
They used a picture of Crown Crate cards.
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driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lordrichter wrote: »
Oh wow, I saw the original story hit reddit's front page on two other game subs. I guess ZOS should be proud their polished UI for crates is so press story friendly. :PMain: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
waterfairy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭a close call ? http://www.pcgamesn.com/china-loot-box-regulations (china government gonna force all companies to provide chances for items in "loot boxes"
China can't control what an American based company does.1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
China can't control what an American based company does.
Companies are international now. I remember EA had a variation of Plants vs Zombies 2 for China where you can grind to unlock the plants that are behind a paywall in the US. You are going see companies build two versions of their game, or one version based on the stricter law. The latter is more likely if more countries adopt similar regulations. I'm honestly surprised to see this coming out of China before the EU.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its over, I'm seeing Atronach mounts everywhere I go. This is here to stay and ZoS is raking in the cash. Christmas bonuses are gonna be in the Marketing Teams stockings...I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4501 -
AuldWolf✭✭✭✭✭Honestly? This, along with the change to world bosses and a few other things has me looking forward to Skywind more than ever before. And the co-op mod for Skyrim is shaping up really, really nicely. Skywind couldn't hit sooner at this point, they'd certainly capitalise on the general mood around here.
I used to love ESO and talk it up regularly. These days, my feelings couldn't be more complicated and conflicted if they tried. At this point, I feel dirty giving any money to ZOS.4 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭
China can't control what an American based company does.
Despite what a certain ex-reality show host might have us believe, countries can absolutely legislate against company behaviour within their own borders.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges1 -
aldriq✭✭✭Lets not forget that the last Paid DLC ZOS released was Shadows of the Hist I think (?) and how long ago was that??? Then they release One Tamriel and next up is Housing for free in 2+ months. The next Paid DLC probably isnt going to be for another 3 months at least AFTER the Housing update.
It is going to be over a half year in between DLC cash flow for ZOS. These crates will keep large free updates possible along with other large DLCs ( creating all of Vvardenfel aint cheap ). A necessary evil so we all should do our best to live with them. Nothing in them is required for gameplay. Gotta separate our Needs from our Wants.
Indeed, Update 13 will be the second free update in a row, the third one with no new geographic content added. They have tried, done their cost analysis and realised that paid DLCs offer the poorest return of investment. Free global content changes like one Tamriel and furniture crafting are not quick to make but rejuvenating old content is probably a more efficient use of their resources. Finally the crown store (and crates) give them the biggest bang for their buck – they need comparatively few resources to part players with the most cash.
Based on that, the priorities for 2017 are clear to me: Crate/Store Content > Free World Updates > DLCs.
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This discussion has been closed.