Do not buy Crown Crates!!!

Prof_Bawbag

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies. Buying a crown crate with pixels in them is in no shape or form the same as going into an actual shop to purchase fruit and veg. For starters, those people selling that fruit are relying on custom and are obliged by law to state what food stuff they're selling or at least they are in the UK. At a stretch, a better analogy would have been that shop having a Christmas raffle on a "guess what's in the hamper". The same holds true of those car dealership analogies people have been making. Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

Tandor

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies. Buying a crown crate with pixels in them is in no shape or form the same as going into an actual shop to purchase fruit and veg. For starters, those people selling that fruit are relying on custom and are obliged by law to state what food stuff they're selling or at least they are in the UK. At a stretch, a better analogy would have been that shop having a Christmas raffle on a "guess what's in the hamper". The same holds true of those car dealership analogies people have been making. Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

In any event, even if those retail analogies were appropriate, the true comparison would be with the Crown Store which operates the same way as retail stores in that you see an item and buy it, rather than with the Crown Crates which would be more analogous to lottery tickets but for the fact that with the crates you get items guaranteed to have a value commensurate with the purchase price quite apart from the chance of something epic which comes on top. If you don't want those items or the gems from them you can use to get the item you do want then that can easily be reflected in your decision whether or not to purchase.

SolarCat02

It's more like those "go fish" games at the local fair. You want a number 25 for the giant stuffed bear, but the magnetic fish your rod caught has a number 3 on the bottom for the 2 cent unbalanced plastic top.

But don't worry! For every 20 tops you collect, you can trade them in for poster, and after collecting only 10 posters you can get that bear!

So would you like to fish again? $1 per cast, or 6 for $5. Good luck!

code65536

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies. Buying a crown crate with pixels in them is in no shape or form the same as going into an actual shop to purchase fruit and veg.

Um, it's an analogy. They're not supposed to be the same--they're supposed to make it easier to understand someone's line of thinking. Whether it's virtual goods in a virtual world or actual life-sustaining items in the real world is utterly irrelevant because the crux of the matter is structure of the seller-buyer transaction and how a buyer would feel about it.

And because we're talking about mere pixels, the protests are, quite appropriately, mere text on a forum. Nobody is going out to personally march on ZOS's office building. If someone were to do something like that, then, sure, we can talk about the ridiculousness of the degree of the reaction.

ItsGlaive

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies. Buying a crown crate with pixels in them is in no shape or form the same as going into an actual shop to purchase fruit and veg. For starters, those people selling that fruit are relying on custom and are obliged by law to state what food stuff they're selling or at least they are in the UK. At a stretch, a better analogy would have been that shop having a Christmas raffle on a "guess what's in the hamper". The same holds true of those car dealership analogies people have been making. Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

It's an analogy, they are both products. One may only be pixels but the other is "only" molecules. For arguments sake then, if it sits better with you, switch "grocery shop" for "Amazon"; and "apple" for "virtually any other product in the world."

FelixTheCatt

This reminds me of players arguing over prices in-game for items/mats etc. If you want to spend the money on crates , go for it. If you don't , save your cash and move on. Crates are a crap shoot , not a guarantee of a certain item.

Emencie

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

JKorr

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

This reminds me of players arguing over prices in-game for items/mats etc. If you want to spend the money on crates , go for it. If you don't , save your cash and move on. Crates are a crap shoot , not a guarantee of a certain item.

Actually, they do guarantee that you will get "consumables", the potions, food and scrolls that apparently not too many people were buying. They changed around and buffed some effects to make it seem like the clown crate versions were actually worth using.

All the other items are "a chance to get". The apex rewards, "a slight chance to get".

Prof_Bawbag

Xabien wrote: »

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Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies. Buying a crown crate with pixels in them is in no shape or form the same as going into an actual shop to purchase fruit and veg. For starters, those people selling that fruit are relying on custom and are obliged by law to state what food stuff they're selling or at least they are in the UK. At a stretch, a better analogy would have been that shop having a Christmas raffle on a "guess what's in the hamper". The same holds true of those car dealership analogies people have been making. Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

It's an analogy, they are both products. One may only be pixels but the other is "only" molecules. For arguments sake then, if it sits better with you, switch "grocery shop" for "Amazon"; and "apple" for "virtually any other product in the world."

Still not the same. The things you buy from Amazon have monetary value, those crates don't. Those crates are a worthless commodity in every sense. You can come up with any reason you manage to pull from thin air, but it's not going to change the fact something you buy in a shop has monetary value. Even comparing them with lotteries is a stretch (albeit not a ridiculous one) insofar as people stating why do lotteries have to state the odds and ZoS don't, "OMFG people should sue them" (yes, some have actually stated that). That too is simple. Crown Crates aren't legally gambling in the same way as Casinos, bookmakers and lotteries are. Something is only considered gambling if the prize on offer has any monetary value (that term again). That's the only clue people should need. it really is all about the term monetary value and no analogy is gonna change that.

I get some of you have an axe to grind and some of your grievances are justified, but there's no point turning the crown crates into something they most certainly aren't.

Prof_Bawbag

Emencie wrote: »

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Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

Elsonso

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies.

It illustrates a pattern of thinking related to Crown Crates. By placing similar concepts into other venues, it helps to really point out what Crown Crates really mean, and why they might be considered wrong. Essentially, we would not tolerate Crown Crate thinking in other parts of our life, and many people don't want them in any part of our life.

As for "pixels", that is an entirely difference conversation. If we go there, we really have to question why anyone is spending money on pixels they do not own, cannot take home with them, and can go away at any time, with or without warning. It is, from some perspectives, nothing more than just throwing away money.

As a community, we have largely accepted the idea that it is OK to spend real money on pixels.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

It is not as much about what people are buying, it is about how they are buying it.

JimT722

Why don't people supporting lockboxes do 5 minutes of research. I have not seen anything ever written about them that is positive. They are a cancer in the game industry.

Prof_Bawbag

lordrichter wrote: »

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Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Don't understand why people use real life instances such as grocery shops to make analogies.

It illustrates a pattern of thinking related to Crown Crates. By placing similar concepts into other venues, it helps to really point out what Crown Crates really mean, and why they might be considered wrong. Essentially, we would not tolerate Crown Crate thinking in other parts of our life, and many people don't want them in any part of our life.

As for "pixels", that is an entirely difference conversation. If we go there, we really have to question why anyone is spending money on pixels they do not own, cannot take home with them, and can go away at any time, with or without warning. It is, from some perspectives, nothing more than just throwing away money.

As a community, we have largely accepted the idea that it is OK to spend real money on pixels.

show previous quotes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Crown crates in a game, containing pixels have zero relevance to apples in a shop.

It is not as much about what people are buying, it is about how they are buying it.

I get that mate, and from a gaming pov, I'm not refuting the sentiment behind your concerns nor am I stating you're talking bollocks. I just don't see what cars, apples and whatever else people throw into the mix have to do with these crates. I mean, a car dealership is never gonna run with that scenario? If they did, then they'd be classified as a gambling company the same as an online poker site would be if it were giving cars away for an entrance fee. Because that car is worth real money to the prize winner.

It's all about as silly as people using pizzanomics to justify expensive dlc.

ItsGlaive

JimT722 wrote: »

Why don't people supporting lockboxes do 5 minutes of research. I have not seen anything ever written about them that is positive. They are a cancer in the game industry.

Pretty much this. The argument against can be boiled down into "they're anti-consumer" because they restrict purchasing choices and artificially inflate prices for customers, leaving them further out of pocket, I've yet to see any pro-crate arguments that can refute this.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

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Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

What you are arguing is the gaming industries defense. But here's a bit of legal opinion for you to digest.... I didn't write this opinion but I wish I did.

http://www.gamecensorship.com/mmorpglaw.html

Skinzz

I paid 5000 crowns for the 15 pack .. lets just say... huge disappointment and waste of money.

JimT722

It's a shame that lockboxes exist, but let's talk a bit about how painful the thought of this "pain"-to-win mechanic is, really.

I absolutely refuse to buy a lockbox, unless it offers some guarented result. Something tangible, to boost my character, and at a minimum worth the value of what I put into it. Additionally, I absolutely refuse to buy it if - and this is important - if it somehow is part 1 of many purchases to get to a specific point. It's going to take a few words to hash it out, but, really, the biggest shame that the MMO industry has is the mere concept of keys and lockboxes. Every, single, free-to-play game out there has it in some variety. WildStar is going to get some, Defiance has it in spades, All Points Bulletin has them, Guild Wars 2 has them, SWTOR has them, and so on and so on. The part that makes them a shame, nay, a cancer, is that they're designed not for the player but the whale. Someone who has a spare chunk of cash and is willing to grind them away, forever, and ever, and ever until they get whatever selected item that they want.

Lockboxes contain rare items, skins, vehicles, mounts, space money, tickets, hopes, dreams, prestige, happiness, etc. at very low drop rates. Players, with money, run tests on these lockboxes to see what the drop rates are, collecting the experience of everyone together to hash out what is and isn't inside each of them. This is a fallacy, because the actual droprates can't be divined out of random statistical data where in a pool of say 50 players, perhaps 5 got the space money they always dreamed of having, while in another pool of 50, it never showed up.

If it's not a specific item, then it's like ArcheAge, where the boxes contain materials, rare materials, where purchasing them makes it faster. So you end up buying more and more and more and more and more until you're either getting Google ads for bankruptcy, or complete whater project until the next patch. These are a bit more rare, mostly in sandbox oriented games, and are more caustic than other lockboxes to the enemy.

Then there are games like Marvel Heroes, who offer random heroes in a box, for a price that's cheaper than a regular hero, for currency you can earn in the game. Which is um, really cool honestly. As far as I know, Marvel Heroes is one of the few free-to-play games without lockboxes, opting instead to offer a large assortment of Hero Packs.

No matter how you look at it though, gambling with real life money sucks. It sucks hard. There is no way to get around how much it sucks. Some lockboxes automatically give items after enough tries, like Marvel Avengers Alliance, but even then, you're buying lockboxes and that is just lame. WildStar is adding them, which is lame, and ArcheAge didn't even really make you gamble, it just made it where rare items you needed were for sale, which was lame.

It's going to have to stop one day. We all realize that games rely on whales, this has been a part of mainstream culture since South Park made it a thing. Yet, at the same time, lockboxes still keep coming and coming. Rare items are promised, and yet players buy and buy them, correlating data in hopes of coming up with a rough idea of how many keys, boxes, crates, or whatever they'll need to buy for it work out.

I don't have much more to say than I hate it and I hope you hate it too. I argue that, no matter what, the rarest item should just be sold for a price. If you spend that much on lockboxes, plus whatever more considering they often come with tons of other goodies, then you get a guaranteed chance at it, but otherwise, you can gamble. That removes the whale component and makes items more accessible, but removes the allure to it. Otherwise, games should find some other revenue stream than constantly offering me an item I'll always refuse, but feel bad knowing others are maxxing their credit cards in order to cash out on whatever reward may sit within.

Oh the joy of the Internet.

Source

https://www.google.com/amp/www.tentonhammer.com/columns/the-shame-of-lockboxes.amp

anitajoneb17_ESO

JimT722 wrote: »

Why don't people supporting lockboxes do 5 minutes of research. I have not seen anything ever written about them that is positive. They are a cancer in the game industry.

Aren't we allowed to form our own opinion, even if it's not backed up by "something on the internet" ? Like, everything you find on the internet is true, and we can't think for ourselves ?

I'm not defending crates. I don't think they're great. BUT... the intensity of the reaction of (some) people here puzzles me. A "healthy" customer/supplier relationship would be "I don't like it I don't buy it - end of story".

1 - Yet people are concerned that the original product (the game) might go downwards.
2 - Yet people feel betrayed because "they trusted ZOS, they love the game, they've supported it with subs/purchases since launch..." and crates are scam...
3 - Yet people feel frustrated because "they can't have that mount that's in the crates" without - probably - overspending for it.

to which I'd respond...

1 - Yes it might, but you expressed the same "p2w" concern when the game went B2P and yet things are fine. It will be soon enough to worry once things REALLY go bad. What's the point in worrying now ?

2 - Sorry to be crude but... you didn't "support" the game. You bought/rented a service. If you think you "supported" it, if you think you "love the game" and not simply enjoy it, maybe your attitude towards the game itself needs rethinking. MAYBE. There's nothing emotional or affective in purchasing a service - or at least there shouldn't be. If there is, you might be vulnerable for exploitation.

3 - We all (with few exceptions) have come across something in a store that we would really, really like to have - but it's too expensive. Part of being an adult is to cope with it - can't afford it, forget it, fine. Children who haven't learned that yet will express frustration by being noisy, in tears and in anger. And guess who else but children cannot deal with frustration ? Well... addicts.

As to the people who are concerned by "exploitation business tactics", yes you're right, but in the context of a video game, is it that important ? Aren't there more important stuff to fight for/against in this world ? I'd rather save my energy... let's say... for (or better said, against) Monsanto, because billlions of human lives are *really* at stake there.

I read my post again before posting it and realize it sounds very... lecturing. I'm sorry. Wasn't the intent. Just wanted to give some food for thought, whether you agree or not. And if you don't, that's OK.

Publius_Scipio

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Prof_Bawbag

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

What you are arguing is the gaming industries defense. But here's a bit of legal opinion for you to digest.... I didn't write this opinion but I wish I did.

http://www.gamecensorship.com/mmorpglaw.html

After reading that, it's obvious nothing has really changed and virtual in-game goods are still as they were before the article was written. Feel free to correct me as I appreciate I may be reading too much into what you wrote, but I'm not arguing for anyone, I'm merely stating how things currently are within the UK and after reading that, the US too.

I'm one of those losers who always gripe about 5000cr motifs, ever increasing costs of mounts and so on. Yet every time I and others pipe up, we get shot down. We get told we're peasants, the items aren't essential to game progress, we don't have to purchase etc etc. Some of the people calling others "whales" now are the very same people who lapped up any old garbage on the CS regardless of the price.

This isn't aimed at you btw as I don't recognise your user name: Another thing that has been noticeable since the CC's hit last week, is the amount of those aforementioned people who now have had the audacity to state something along the lines of "those buying this rubbish, only encourages more cash grabs and increases the prices for everyone". No, it was you people lapping up any old garbage, creating threads saying you'll pay X amount for this new feature and that new feature before it's even a pipe dream, shooting those of us down at every opportunity about the increasing cash grabs, that are the people who have encouraged ZoS to create the crown crates. As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Seen this coming a mile off.

JimT722

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

JimT722 wrote: »

Why don't people supporting lockboxes do 5 minutes of research. I have not seen anything ever written about them that is positive. They are a cancer in the game industry.

Aren't we allowed to form our own opinion, even if it's not backed up by "something on the internet" ? Like, everything you find on the internet is true, and we can't think for ourselves ?

I'm not defending crates. I don't think they're great. BUT... the intensity of the reaction of (some) people here puzzles me. A "healthy" customer/supplier relationship would be "I don't like it I don't buy it - end of story".

1 - Yet people are concerned that the original product (the game) might go downwards.
2 - Yet people feel betrayed because "they trusted ZOS, they love the game, they've supported it with subs/purchases since launch..." and crates are scam...
3 - Yet people feel frustrated because "they can't have that mount that's in the crates" without - probably - overspending for it.

to which I'd respond...

1 - Yes it might, but you expressed the same "p2w" concern when the game went B2P and yet things are fine. It will be soon enough to worry once things REALLY go bad. What's the point in worrying now ?

2 - Sorry to be crude but... you didn't "support" the game. You bought/rented a service. If you think you "supported" it, if you think you "love the game" and not simply enjoy it, maybe your attitude towards the game itself needs rethinking. MAYBE. There's nothing emotional or affective in purchasing a service - or at least there shouldn't be. If there is, you might be vulnerable for exploitation.

3 - We all (with few exceptions) have come across something in a store that we would really, really like to have - but it's too expensive. Part of being an adult is to cope with it - can't afford it, forget it, fine. Children who haven't learned that yet will express frustration by being noisy, in tears and in anger. And guess who else but children cannot deal with frustration ? Well... addicts.

As to the people who are concerned by "exploitation business tactics", yes you're right, but in the context of a video game, is it that important ? Aren't there more important stuff to fight for/against in this world ? I'd rather save my energy... let's say... for (or better said, against) Monsanto, because billlions of human lives are *really* at stake there.

I read my post again before posting it and realize it sounds very... lecturing. I'm sorry. Wasn't the intent. Just wanted to give some food for thought, whether you agree or not. And if you don't, that's OK.

Your right, even though many of these gaming journalists might have bias, where are the journalists in the gaming industry that love them. The closest out of countless articles I have found that come close is one that sounded defeated by them, and another that could barely stomach them. All appear to give more though and done far more research into them then you have.

Edit: what? You say you'd rather argue important matters? Yet you are on this forum arguing eso. Obviously this is important to you. It is to me as I have been playing it for 2.5 years. Also your 3 common responses have nothing to do with crown crates as they don't apply to many

Emencie

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

The law has nothing to do with the monetary value of an object.

Never has. I don't think you understand what monetary value is.

The very fact that people are buying items in the crown store means they do have a value. Just because something does not have a value to you, does not mean it holds zero value. Digital items, and services clearly do have a monetary value because people purchase them every day. Digital items like movies, music, even stock pictures. The monetary value is what we, the people (market) will pay for an item, and so the crown store and it's digital stock definitely has a monetary value.

That is why ZeniMax made the crown store, because the money they spent on dev time making the store is less than the monetary value of the store. Meaning we spend more money on the crown store than it takes to run the crown store, this is a basic principle of any storefront business.

Esquire1980g_ESO

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

show previous quotes

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

What you are arguing is the gaming industries defense. But here's a bit of legal opinion for you to digest.... I didn't write this opinion but I wish I did.

http://www.gamecensorship.com/mmorpglaw.html

After reading that, it's obvious nothing has really changed and virtual in-game goods are still as they were before the article was written. Feel free to correct me as I appreciate I may be reading too much into what you wrote, but I'm not arguing for anyone, I'm merely stating how things currently are within the UK and after reading that, the US too.

I'm one of those losers who always gripe about 5000cr motifs, ever increasing costs of mounts and so on. Yet every time I and others pipe up, we get shot down. We get told we're peasants, the items aren't essential to game progress, we don't have to purchase etc etc. Some of the people calling others "whales" now are the very same people who lapped up any old garbage on the CS regardless of the price.

This isn't aimed at you btw as I don't recognise your user name: Another thing that has been noticeable since the CC's hit last week, is the amount of those aforementioned people who now have had the audacity to state something along the lines of "those buying this rubbish, only encourages more cash grabs and increases the prices for everyone". No, it was you people lapping up any old garbage, creating threads saying you'll pay X amount for this new feature and that new feature before it's even a pipe dream, shooting those of us down at every opportunity about the increasing cash grabs, that are the people who have encouraged ZoS to create the crown crates. As the saying goes, you reap what you sow. Seen this coming a mile off.

/agree with about 90% of all you've said here. As far as western MMOs go, STO probably set the bar that most of these under the leadership of a Chinese company who were very experienced in "monetization", with the bulk of gaming companies following suit. The expensive pixels, from their store, were set there and continues to this day. Gambling was the next logical step to increase profits even further and gaming studios have tried to skirt law to get around existing statute. The opinion referenced above tells me, they just haven't quite hit the mark.

In the US, since that opinion was published, the New York AG has taken the lead in these cases with other states enjoining and more watching to see what the outcomes are. There had been at least 2 Cease and Desists filed and a couple of cases filed in NY State Courts to enforce the Federal and State Law that this opinion references. The 2 C&Ds were settled by the affected online companies vowing not to do business in NY and/or payment to the State(s) affected. The cases are still being litigated, I believe. The precedent has now been set, via the C&ds, and I would imagine that there will be more and more, and from different states/fed, until the industry changes it's practices in their entirety.

You don't know my name due to the fact that my entire guild left ESO at the time of the announcement. I try and keep track of what's happening, with all these lockbox games, due to a personal interest.

Recremen

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

LOL you wish. Now we're trying to make sure that Homestead content doesn't get mixed in with gambling boxes. :-p

Gomumon

Sylance9 wrote: »

Trading what you get would in fact make the crates PTW and ruin the economy.

Guys, they are in the game. Why are we still arguing about this?

It's not pay-to-win because nothing in the Crown store "wins" you anything. Everything is a vanity item or consumable that's on par or below what you can craft for yourself.

Also, as I stated, trading would only be allowed between equivalent tiered rewards, i.e. Apex for Apex. That way, BOTH people are those who paid and nobody could pester another to trade lower tiered rewards for higher ones.

agegarton

I really don't understand the issue some people have with these crates. Get a life, people.

JimT722

agegarton wrote: »

I really don't understand the issue some people have with these crates. Get a life, people.

We complain because we care. We love this game and want it to be successful in other ways then milking the whales. Many of us come from other games that implemented these. I myself have played several. We know where it is likely to go and don't want it to happen to our beloved Elder Scrolls MMO.

Publius_Scipio

Recremen wrote: »

show previous quotes

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

LOL you wish. Now we're trying to make sure that Homestead content doesn't get mixed in with gambling boxes. :-p

yeah....

Elsonso

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

Publius_Scipio

lordrichter wrote: »

show previous quotes

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

As of right now the article only mentions some housing stuff will be in the Crown Store, not crates. Also it would seem a great majority of the whole housing system will be based on in-game gold. No sweat off my brow either way.