Do not buy Crown Crates!!!

ItsGlaive

agegarton wrote: »

I really don't understand the issue some people have with these crates. Get a life, people.

You might not agree, but at this point if you don't understand then you just haven't been reading lol. There have been multiple discussions, so there shouldn't be any lack of understanding at this point

Bryanonymous

lordrichter wrote: »

show previous quotes

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

Don't engage with that guy. It's obvious what he's doing... just can't say it.

Elsonso

.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

show previous quotes

lordrichter wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

As of right now the article only mentions some housing stuff will be in the Crown Store, not crates. Also it would seem a great majority of the whole housing system will be based on in-game gold. No sweat off my brow either way.

Maybe for you, that will be the case. I am guessing it will be an issue.

Publius_Scipio

Bryanonymous wrote: »

show previous quotes

lordrichter wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

Don't engage with that guy. It's obvious what he's doing... just can't say it.

I'm not doing anything but giving my opinion in this thread. What a [snip]. Your kind of "obvious".

Bryanonymous

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

show previous quotes

Bryanonymous wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Guys, don't worry about the few still upset about the crates. the forums have moved on to housing.

Crown Crates will be a part of almost every new conversation for the near future.

Just wait until people find out how much of the Homestead stuff will be Crown Crate exclusives!

Don't engage with that guy. It's obvious what he's doing... just can't say it.

I'm not doing anything but giving my opinion in this thread. What a [snip]. Your kind of "obvious".

K

aisriyth_ESO

Don't tell me how to live my life!

Edit: and yes I do have all the storm atronach mounts.

rotaugen454

I don't really need to buy any more this season anyway, so I'll follow the OP's directive for now.

Prof_Bawbag

Emencie wrote: »

show previous quotes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

The law has nothing to do with the monetary value of an object.

Never has. I don't think you understand what monetary value is.

The very fact that people are buying items in the crown store means they do have a value. Just because something does not have a value to you, does not mean it holds zero value. Digital items, and services clearly do have a monetary value because people purchase them every day. Digital items like movies, music, even stock pictures. The monetary value is what we, the people (market) will pay for an item, and so the crown store and it's digital stock definitely has a monetary value.

That is why ZeniMax made the crown store, because the money they spent on dev time making the store is less than the monetary value of the store. Meaning we spend more money on the crown store than it takes to run the crown store, this is a basic principle of any storefront business.

All the CS contains is data, so I don't understand why anyone would refer to it as stock. All we're doing is unlocking more data whenever we buy dlc.

Those movies, music tracks and the rest have a legally recognised licence attached to them, the stuff in the CCs don't. The only licence I'm aware of purchasing in ESO was when I bought the game. Feel free to correct me on that one. I've just never noticed receiving any sort of licence each time I have purchased items from the CS.

The long and short of it all is, all ZoS need to provide is an outline of what you'll receive if you spend X amount of money for any given piece of fluff you'll buy outright in the CS and make sure it's as described and works to a reasonable level. As long as they do that, they can charge what they want, implement those sales how they want and doesn't matter what we think. They are doing nothing wrong implementing crown crates regardless of all the analogies flying around in here. It's clear what type of purchase you're entering into and that it's a game of chance. Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

JimT722

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

The law has nothing to do with the monetary value of an object.

Never has. I don't think you understand what monetary value is.

The very fact that people are buying items in the crown store means they do have a value. Just because something does not have a value to you, does not mean it holds zero value. Digital items, and services clearly do have a monetary value because people purchase them every day. Digital items like movies, music, even stock pictures. The monetary value is what we, the people (market) will pay for an item, and so the crown store and it's digital stock definitely has a monetary value.

That is why ZeniMax made the crown store, because the money they spent on dev time making the store is less than the monetary value of the store. Meaning we spend more money on the crown store than it takes to run the crown store, this is a basic principle of any storefront business.

All the CS contains is data, so I don't understand why anyone would refer to it as stock. All we're doing is unlocking more data whenever we buy dlc.

Those movies, music tracks and the rest have a legally recognised licence attached to them, the stuff in the CCs don't. The only licence I'm aware of purchasing in ESO was when I bought the game. Feel free to correct me on that one. I've just never noticed receiving any sort of licence each time I have purchased items from the CS.

The long and short of it all is, all ZoS need to provide is an outline of what you'll receive if you spend X amount of money for any given piece of fluff you'll buy outright in the CS and make sure it's as described and works to a reasonable level. As long as they do that, they can charge what they want, implement those sales how they want and doesn't matter what we think. They are doing nothing wrong implementing crown crates regardless of all the analogies flying around in here. It's clear what type of purchase you're entering into and that it's a game of chance. Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

It is gambling. They are designed to get around gambling laws. One mistake and you end up in a lawsuit like CSGO. The digital currency is the only thing keeping other games from lawsuits.

Prof_Bawbag

Never said it wasn't gambling, only a fool would think it's not. But it's not the legal definition of gambling and why they can do it.

JimT722

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Never said it wasn't gambling, only a fool would think it's not. But it's not the legal definition of gambling and why they can do it.

My point is they had to be very careful in its implementation in order to get around current gambling laws. It is gambling and some people will develop all the problems that can come with it. Does this really belong in an rpg?

Prof_Bawbag

JimT722 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Cars have monetary value, crown crates don't and as such no one is being forced to make unrealistic and quite frankly ludicrous decisions. Simply doesn't happen. The only thing that has monetary value with regards to a game is the actual product that you see sitting on a shop shelf or the licences used when purchasing games digitally.

This is not exactly true, monetary value is value a person or the market in general can place on a product. That product can be a service or digital. Like a license that lets you play a game, the items from the crates are a digital license that lets you use items in the game. These both have a monetary value.

If it can have a price tag, especially if it does have a price tag, it has monetary value.

Really doesn't matter what you or I think though. It's what the law states that matters. No point using "what ifs" or "buts", in real life those crates are worthless as is the content within any given game. Nothing on the crown store has any sell on value and as such they're worthless. We're paying for thin air. The only thing of value nowadays is the licence. Whether that licence is made of of thin air too is neither here nor there as it's a recognised legal document.

The law has nothing to do with the monetary value of an object.

Never has. I don't think you understand what monetary value is.

The very fact that people are buying items in the crown store means they do have a value. Just because something does not have a value to you, does not mean it holds zero value. Digital items, and services clearly do have a monetary value because people purchase them every day. Digital items like movies, music, even stock pictures. The monetary value is what we, the people (market) will pay for an item, and so the crown store and it's digital stock definitely has a monetary value.

That is why ZeniMax made the crown store, because the money they spent on dev time making the store is less than the monetary value of the store. Meaning we spend more money on the crown store than it takes to run the crown store, this is a basic principle of any storefront business.

All the CS contains is data, so I don't understand why anyone would refer to it as stock. All we're doing is unlocking more data whenever we buy dlc.

Those movies, music tracks and the rest have a legally recognised licence attached to them, the stuff in the CCs don't. The only licence I'm aware of purchasing in ESO was when I bought the game. Feel free to correct me on that one. I've just never noticed receiving any sort of licence each time I have purchased items from the CS.

The long and short of it all is, all ZoS need to provide is an outline of what you'll receive if you spend X amount of money for any given piece of fluff you'll buy outright in the CS and make sure it's as described and works to a reasonable level. As long as they do that, they can charge what they want, implement those sales how they want and doesn't matter what we think. They are doing nothing wrong implementing crown crates regardless of all the analogies flying around in here. It's clear what type of purchase you're entering into and that it's a game of chance. Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

It is gambling. They are designed to get around gambling laws. One mistake and you end up in a lawsuit like CSGO. The digital currency is the only thing keeping other games from lawsuits.

@JimT722

Here's a very simplistic breakdown of what is regarded as gambling here in the UK:

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.

That prize has to be something that can be turned into material goods or cash, so the CC's bypass those laws on that single omission. That was my main point. Cars, apples etc are tangible goods. The items in the crown store and as the law stands aren't considered "prizes" in the true sense. That may well change in the future, but for now it is what it is.

Prof_Bawbag

JimT722 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Never said it wasn't gambling, only a fool would think it's not. But it's not the legal definition of gambling and why they can do it.

My point is they had to be very careful in its implementation in order to get around current gambling laws. It is gambling and some people will develop all the problems that can come with it. Does this really belong in an rpg?

No it doesn't, but there again, I don't think £50 mounts belong in any game either.

SolarCat02

I think it's also the fact that you always get a "prize" - it's just usually consumables and things you don't really want.

JimT722

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

show previous quotes

JimT722 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Never said it wasn't gambling, only a fool would think it's not. But it's not the legal definition of gambling and why they can do it.

My point is they had to be very careful in its implementation in order to get around current gambling laws. It is gambling and some people will develop all the problems that can come with it. Does this really belong in an rpg?

No it doesn't, but there again, I don't think £50 mounts belong in any game either.

Yes, that I agree with.

Renoaku_ESO

I agree, on top of ESO doing this it does nothing but drive me away from the game even if I did think about coming back with all the mistakes this company has done many things like no housing at the start even though that comes next year still its a bit late to try to bring stuff to a game that should have been there in the first place with development, including being able to edit character any time with a paid subscription...

I have no problems for players who want to support a game company, but An American Founded Game Company following what Korean Game Companies do using (RNG) and (GACHA) I have a huge problem with it like what is the point in not trying to actually make a Tripple A MMO worth playing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks

Wheres the Trading System to trade with other players without being in a guild to do so, Wheres the new housing system like when it comes in can players enter houses, have any type of trading with other players there, Houses going to actually mean anything in the game?

JimT722

It's not just the Crates I'm so against. Were they to lazy to create new items people weren't looking forward to buy and expected to be able to directly.

Red Pit Wolf. Dark brotherhood released May 31st. Red Pit Wolf was outside of anvil stables. Many forum goers were excited and couldn't wait to buy.

Style Parlor. Web article invites you to check out Shadows of the Hist and Style Parlor. On pts in July. More items i was looking forward to and expected was going to be available for purchase.

Crown crates earliest announcement as far as I can find was at gamescon early to mid August. I can't help but feel the people running this are brain dead. They destroyed what consumer confidence I had left because they didn't have the respect to not include items they have personally shown off before the crown crate announcement.

JahneeO

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

JimT722

Renoaku_ESO wrote: »

I agree, on top of ESO doing this it does nothing but drive me away from the game even if I did think about coming back with all the mistakes this company has done many things like no housing at the start even though that comes next year still its a bit late to try to bring stuff to a game that should have been there in the first place with development, including being able to edit character any time with a paid subscription...

I have no problems for players who want to support a game company, but An American Founded Game Company following what Korean Game Companies do using (RNG) and (GACHA) I have a huge problem with it like what is the point in not trying to actually make a Tripple A MMO worth playing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks

Wheres the Trading System to trade with other players without being in a guild to do so, Wheres the new housing system like when it comes in can players enter houses, have any type of trading with other players there, Houses going to actually mean anything in the game?

Housing would be important to people who role play somewhat like myself, unfortunately I have zero confidence in this company to do it in an acceptable manner.

JimT722

JahneeO wrote: »

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

I am guessing you haven't played many games that went this route. The game itself is likely going to take a hit in quality, especially going forward. I have played since launch and done a lot of everything the game has to offer. Someone who worked in the industry says companies that do gambling are headhunting to move into the MMO market. People have posted stories about how people fell victim to addiction to these in other games. Your post is that people are over reacting but you really haven't actually read many posts if any. Gambling doesn't belong in the industry and no one can give a good reason why they should exist only the contrary.

Recremen

JahneeO wrote: »

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

I, too, prefer to live a vapid and unexamined life, because thinking is hard and any issue that doesn't affect me in an obvious way isn't worth consideration.

Publius_Scipio

JahneeO wrote: »

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

I agree with your post. Myself and Bill Goldberg give you a thumbs up.

JimT722

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

show previous quotes

JahneeO wrote: »

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

I agree with your post. Myself and Bill Goldberg give you a thumbs up.

Great, another thread consisting of great consisting of zero reasoning for the crates. Almost as thoughtful as Murica and because they can.

Since you asked about my obsession with bringing up a certain cartoon with some relevance on the subject...

Why are you obsessed with guys who act but don't actually fight because they can't mess up their looks. Also "wrestling if you can call it that" not even slight relevance to the subject.

Aurielle

JahneeO wrote: »

I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

It's not JUST about "not getting the shiny" (though that certainly is part of it); it absolutely has something to do with the direction of the game. Some of us -- yours truly included -- have lived through MMORPG F2P transitions, and are having horrible flashbacks. As MMOs ease into F2P, the development focus shifts away from the game itself to strategies designed to maximize microtransactions. In short, new game content falls to the wayside in favour of fluff.

It's pretty depressing that we don't have a confirmed DLC to look forward to in the new year. All we know is that we're getting new scam crate seasons and housing...

Emencie

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

This is the only part you are still tripping up on.

The items do have monetary value! I have no idea why you keep saying that.
Monetary value means worth money. If someone buys it with money, it has monetary value, period.

Secondly The only reason they are not bound by gambling law is because online gambling laws are about what we can do with currency and technically speaking, the crown crates do not cost currency. We trade our money for fake money, then we gamble with the fake money and there is no conversion back to real money. So the gaming control board has no legal say over this process. Not because the goods have no monetary value, especially because, they clearly do.

Publius_Scipio

JimT722 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

JahneeO wrote: »

I cant believe that this thread is still moving forward. I've been playing this game for a little over a year now and if I have even looked in the crown store 5 times, that would be a lot. It is such a small part of the game and an inconsequential part at that. You should really just be playing the game and having fun if you like it.

For all the righteousness I am seeing being spewed on here, from circumventing gambling laws to taking advantage of people with a mental health issue, I can't help but think that most of the people are mad just because they want a sparkly mount that is not available in the crown store for purchase. I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

"Why can't we just buy it from the store?"

Well, because you can't. That is not the business model ZOS has chosen; I'm pretty sure the deal is done. And not to sound like a complete jerk, but, not everyone gets a trophy. Life isn't fair. etc. etc. Either participate or don't. Play the game or don't.

However, if you are leaving, can I have your stuff?

All I know is when I get home from work, I am going to sit down, fire up the XBone, relax and have a good time playing a great game with nary a thought about what is in the Crown Store.

GT: JahneeO

I agree with your post. Myself and Bill Goldberg give you a thumbs up.

Great, another thread consisting of great consisting of zero reasoning for the crates. Almost as thoughtful as Murica and because they can.

Since you asked about my obsession with bringing up a certain cartoon with some relevance on the subject...

Why are you obsessed with guys who act but don't actually fight because they can't mess up their looks. Also "wrestling if you can call it that" not even slight relevance to the subject.

Except I have given my thoughts all over this thread. And I agree with Jahnee.

So once again, as others have said, if you don't like it you can move along if you would like. And jahnee is absolutely right. This crusade you have taken up to save people and society from The Elder Scrolls Online make me personally laugh to be honest. I know that's rude of me, but I'm not a perfect being either.

Edit: Also I am a huge UFC fan and watch that all that time. If you care to know.

Publius_Scipio

Aurielle wrote: »

show previous quotes

JahneeO wrote: »

I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

It's not JUST about "not getting the shiny" (though that certainly is part of it); it absolutely has something to do with the direction of the game. Some of us -- yours truly included -- have lived through MMORPG F2P transitions, and are having horrible flashbacks. As MMOs ease into F2P, the development focus shifts away from the game itself to strategies designed to maximize microtransactions. In short, new game content falls to the wayside in favour of fluff.

It's pretty depressing that we don't have a confirmed DLC to look forward to in the new year. All we know is that we're getting new scam crate seasons and housing...

In complete transparency, I personally can't imagine what this having "lived through MMORPG F2P transitions" means for someone's actual life. And I give you the benefit of that. Maybe I am wrong, but the tone with which I took your post makes me think your life took some seismic jolt because of these "transitions" (can anyone confirm ESO is transitioning other than opinion?)

With that being said, I don't see how my mind is going to change as far as processing this whole crusade against crown crates on these forums.

Recremen

Emencie wrote: »

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Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

This is the only part you are still tripping up on.

The items do have monetary value! I have no idea why you keep saying that.
Monetary value means worth money. If someone buys it with money, it has monetary value, period.

Secondly The only reason they are not bound by gambling law is because online gambling laws are about what we can do with currency and technically speaking, the crown crates do not cost currency. We trade our money for fake money, then we gamble with the fake money and there is no conversion back to real money. So the gaming control board has no legal say over this process. Not because the goods have no monetary value, especially because, they clearly do.

Anything that winds up in the collections UI, if I recall the TOS correctly, is considered a nontransferable service, so they cannot be exchanged for other goods or services and don't count towards the legal definition of gambling. It's a dirty sneak trick, but that's what we have.

Prof_Bawbag

Emencie wrote: »

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Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

This is the only part you are still tripping up on.

The items do have monetary value! I have no idea why you keep saying that.
Monetary value means worth money. If someone buys it with money, it has monetary value, period.

Secondly The only reason they are not bound by gambling law is because online gambling laws are about what we can do with currency and technically speaking, the crown crates do not cost currency. We trade our money for fake money, then we gamble with the fake money and there is no conversion back to real money. So the gaming control board has no legal say over this process. Not because the goods have no monetary value, especially because, they clearly do.

I'm not tripping up. We're also receiving no tangible goods or money and here in the UK that means the items we are receiving have no monetary value, thus aren't considered to be 'prizes' as far as any legal implications are concerned. Their only value is within the game. Nothing else can be done with those items. I've already posted this which relates to UK law: Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements be present: consideration, chance and prize.

It clearly states that the reasons you have given above miss the mark. Many gambling sites have you trading real life cash in for worthless virtual tokens that are then used in their virtual game machines, yet the entire process is still considered gambling under the UK legal system. That is because the prizes are either tangible goods or cash. No matter which way you attempt to skew it, nothing on the crown store is a tangible item nor do we receive any sort of licence that states we have purchased the crown store item. When we buy individual dlc/game on PSN, Steam and LIVE, we get a set message that usually states something about a one time licence. Same happens whenever we download books or music. We get nothing of the sort from the crown store because it's not classed as anything other than a useless piece of data.

Before I get pulled up about music not being a tangible item, I know, it's the licence that translates into a legally binding document or contract.

Emencie

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

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Aurielle wrote: »

JahneeO wrote: »

I find it hard to believe it has anything to do with the "direction of the game" since the whole time I've been playing, the game has done nothing but get better in my opinion. Next "season" of crown crates we'll get the same thing when they can't buy the new shiny.

It's not JUST about "not getting the shiny" (though that certainly is part of it); it absolutely has something to do with the direction of the game. Some of us -- yours truly included -- have lived through MMORPG F2P transitions, and are having horrible flashbacks. As MMOs ease into F2P, the development focus shifts away from the game itself to strategies designed to maximize microtransactions. In short, new game content falls to the wayside in favour of fluff.

It's pretty depressing that we don't have a confirmed DLC to look forward to in the new year. All we know is that we're getting new scam crate seasons and housing...

In complete transparency, I personally can't imagine what this having "lived through MMORPG F2P transitions" means for someone's actual life. And I give you the benefit of that. Maybe I am wrong, but the tone with which I took your post makes me think your life took some seismic jolt because of these "transitions" (can anyone confirm ESO is transitioning other than opinion?)

With that being said, I don't see how my mind is going to change as far as processing this whole crusade against crown crates on these forums.

It's not some seismic jolt. It's actually a slow gradual process.

For example. SWTOR (the king of the gamble loot box) just completely overhauled their end game gearing process to function like a gamble loot box. Everything in the game now gives you a crate, you open the crate and get random things. After they changed that, they started selling items in the item shop that gives you more (faster) chances at that loot box. In other words over the 4 years of Free to play the micro transactions have gone from cosmetics only, to gamble boxes, to one step away from buying end game gear.

This happens because of a single thing. When a game is supported by subscriptions, the devs goals are to make/keep the game enjoyable enough to keep people happy enough to keep paying for the game. When the game is supported by an item shop, the goal is to make items that people want to buy while playing the game. While cosmetics are good for that, there are better ways to milk your whales. Gambling and convenience start becoming the norm and more content gets added to the item shop than to the game. It's a gradual process that leaves a bitter taste in the mouths of the people who eventually leave those games.

When you love a game, you never want to see it happen. But for many veteran MMO players, we have seen it happen a fair amount. People see loot boxes and immediately think that ESO is going down this path, which is not necessarily true, but seeing what has happened in other games has people upset

Recremen wrote: »

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Emencie wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Something else that should be fairly obvious, they're not bound by any sort of gambling law that prohibits this sort of behaviour, why? Because the items have no monetary value. That's the only monetary value that should matter in this case. Like i said previously, it doesn't matter what you or anyone else in this thread thinks.

This is the only part you are still tripping up on.

The items do have monetary value! I have no idea why you keep saying that.
Monetary value means worth money. If someone buys it with money, it has monetary value, period.

Secondly The only reason they are not bound by gambling law is because online gambling laws are about what we can do with currency and technically speaking, the crown crates do not cost currency. We trade our money for fake money, then we gamble with the fake money and there is no conversion back to real money. So the gaming control board has no legal say over this process. Not because the goods have no monetary value, especially because, they clearly do.

Anything that winds up in the collections UI, if I recall the TOS correctly, is considered a nontransferable service, so they cannot be exchanged for other goods or services and don't count towards the legal definition of gambling. It's a dirty sneak trick, but that's what we have.

Yup.

If we could trade them to each other especially if someone setup a trading page where people were exchanging cash for the items, the gambling commission would be on Zenimax instantly. Look at what happened to CS:GO. People were gambling with digital items, but those digital items had the ability to be turned back into currency, they jumped in to put a stop to that quickly.